Landlord not going to return apartment deposit.

[BestB]

32 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

Following on from recent notes I have posted below message sent to landlord a few moments ago, suitably redacted.

“Hi xxxx- It was great speaking to you today.

 

As I have said previously I have always felt you have been a good landlord, indeed I consider you more than a landlord but also a friend. However I would like to assure you that the following action is not being taken based on any feeling of malice between us.

 

However I am conscious of the people in Thailand and feel it is incumbent on me to ensure that all my taxes over the last 6 years have been collected and paid in accordance with local laws.

 

In this respect I am intending to approach the Thailand revenue department to ensure all my rental payments for the last 6 years have accorded with local tax law regulations.

 

Whilst I am able to forward them a copy of your passport (now expired) to the local revenue authorities together with copies of signed tenancy agreements, proof of rent paid, name of school where you are currently employed I do not have details of your current address. Accordingly can you confirm if the revenue department should contact you in case of need care of the school or xxxxxxxx office. Having said this I assume under TM30 regulations they will know your current address. Please let me know.

 

I have no doubt that you have fully met your tax liabilities in Thailand and the above proposals are merely for my peace of mind. Incidentally I understand that apartment xxxx is in your husbands name and suspect these details can also be passed onto the revenue authorities.

 

I have no doubt that all your earnings whilst in Thailand have been strictly observed and 
as such all appropriate taxes have been paid”

 

I await her response but have already resigned myself to fact that she will not return deposit and looking for anyway that she will not get away with this in the future with other tenants.

 

 

It is a good letter, though i am not sure how good her english is to understand it.

 

See what she responds, let her know about OCPB as well, spell it out for her with a reference, as i am certain she does nor have a clue what it is http://www.ocpb.go.th/index.php?filename=index

 

Office of the consumer protection board

[New beginnings]

22 minutes ago, beau thai said:

you have sent this before even approaching the letting agent??.  surprising. personally I would not react positively to attempted blackmail, but I hope it works for you.

 

To be honest I don’t see this as blackmail - I have already accepted that I will not receive deposit back irrespective of this message. However I do intend to submit details to revenue department to avoid her doing this to someone else.

[Bill97]

 
To be honest I don’t see this as blackmail - I have already accepted that I will not receive deposit back irrespective of this message. However I do intend to submit details to revenue department to avoid her doing this to someone else.

Won’t stop her from doing it again. Only means she may have to pay taxes.

Should have talked with agent first. But you already decided... sadly.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[New beginnings]

1 minute ago, Bill97 said:

Won’t stop her from doing it again. Only means she may have to pay taxes.

Should have talked with agent first. But you already decided... sadly.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Appreciate your comments but already know she has no intention of refunding security deposit based on previous messages. I know when I’m beaten and can only hope that other tenants are not subjected to same treatment although I wont hold my breath. 

 

[BestB]

5 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Won’t stop her from doing it again. Only means she may have to pay taxes.

Should have talked with agent first. But you already decided... sadly.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

It’s not just taxes but back taxes from the date she bought it, plus interest plus a fine. This could potentially cost her close to half a million if not more and considering she has other properties this could cost her into millions . She may rethink her strategy twice ????????

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

 

Appreciate your comments but already know she has no intention of refunding security deposit based on previous messages. I know when I’m beaten and can only hope that other tenants are not subjected to same treatment although I wont hold my breath. 

 

I think you will find her more cooperative now and it was all a misunderstanding ????

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, New beginnings said:

 

Appreciate your comments but already know she has no intention of refunding security deposit based on previous messages. 

 

So her bluff worked.  You bought it hook line and sinker.

 

I negotiate with people like her.  People who take extreem positions because sometimes they get away with them.  Sometimes they try scare you with them.  But they are just playing a game and back down when confronted.

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

It’s not just taxes but back taxes from the date she bought it, plus interest plus a fine. This could potentially cost her close to half a million if not more and considering she has other properties this could cost her into millions . She may rethink her strategy twice ????????

You are just guessing, you do not know for a fact that she has not paid taxes.  

[BestB]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

You are just guessing, you do not know for a fact that she has not paid taxes.  

If you lived in Thailand, had dealings with Thai or Chinese, you would know rental tax or declaration is the last thing they do or pay

[scorecard]

33 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

So her bluff worked.  You bought it hook line and sinker.

 

I negotiate with people like her.  People who take extreem positions because sometimes they get away with them.  Sometimes they try scare you with them.  But they are just playing a game and back down when confronted.

Push her, but as you say, you have pretty much realized the deposit it not coming back.

 

Keep one point in mind, there are plenty of previous cases of landlord changing the locks so be sure that any important documents, valuables etc., are out of the premises well before any deadline date. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by scorecard

[BestB]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

Push her, but as you say, you have pretty much realized the deposit it not coming back.

 

Keep one point in mind, there are plenty of previous cases ot landlord changing the locks so be sure that any important documents, valuables etc., are out of the premises well before any deadline date. 

 

 

Changing the locks is called tresspassing and as i mentioned earlier police takes this matter very serious, resulting in arrest and bail of at least 250 000.

 

Only idiots will try it on or those who think tenant is clueless.

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, BestB said:

Changing the locks is called tresspassing and as i mentioned earlier police takes this matter very serious, resulting in arrest and bail of at least 250 000.

 

Only idiots will try it on or those who think tenant is clueless.

OK, but do police from all stations adopt the same attitude / actions? Clearly NO.

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

OK, but do police from all stations adopt the same attitude / actions? Clearly NO.

yes they do, what do you mean clearly no.

 

How many people do you know who were paid up and had their locks changed? tenant went to police and landlord got away with it?

[Just Weird]

12 hours ago, New beginnings said:

She has already stated in an earlier message that I will not get any of the deposit back if I leave Thailand prior to the question of the deposit being resolved.

What's the question that needs to be resolved and that seems to be the issue that you haven't mentioned specifically?

Edited October 23, 2019 by Just Weird

[Isaanbiker]

7 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

In 99% of these cases the reasons are either

1) She would just like to keep it to buy a new handbag

2) She would just like to keep it because she already bought a new handbag and has no money or simply does not want to use her own money to repay you

 

 

 

3) She did that to 99 foreigners before but nobody even tried to get his money back. 

 

   OP< tell her that you're already in touch with your lawyer, that should do the trick. Look for an influential and well known lawyer in Bangkok. 

 

   The name alone might ring bells. 

[Just Weird]

12 hours ago, New beginnings said:

. Also as all rent has been paid through the letting agent would they be able to confirm proof of rent paid?

Why have they not provided you with receipts over the past 6 years?

 

Edit:  Ok, just seen your answer.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Just Weird

[BestB]

1 minute ago, Isaanbiker said:

3) She did that to 99 foreigners before but nobody even tried to get his money back. 

 

   OP< tell her that you're already in touch with your lawyer, that should do the trick. Look for an influential and well known lawyer in Bangkok. 

 

   The name alone might ring bells. 

Why on earth anyone in their right mind would even consider threatening with a lawyer for 20 000 baht amount? being well aware legal action will cost 5 times that and no guarantees to recover any monies?

 

As already posted, there is free help from government agency which is by far worse than any lawyer and by far more threatening than a lawyer and once sink their teeth into you, will not let you go, even more so when landlord is a foreigner herself

[Just Weird]

12 hours ago, New beginnings said:

message received today basically stating that I will not get deposit back.

 

7 hours ago, New beginnings said:

Today received message I must wait 1 month plus 1 day before I should get part of security deposit returned.

In your OP you state that you will not get your deposit back, yet in the quote above from a later post you state that there will just be a delay!  There's a big difference between the two, which one is it?

[DaRoadrunner]

As you rented it via an agent, I would ask the agent for the deposit back and let them deal with the landlord.

[New beginnings]

56 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

What's the question that needs to be resolved and that seems to be the issue that you haven't mentioned specifically?

 

Its not actually a question. She advised that if I leave Thailand she will not repay the security deposit to an overseas bank.

[New beginnings]

30 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

As you rented it via an agent, I would ask the agent for the deposit back and let them deal with the landlord.

 

Unfortunately they have advised that she holds the deposit.

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

 

Its not actually a question. She advised that if I leave Thailand she will not repay the security deposit to an overseas bank.

you did not mention that to start with. Sending money to overseas banks incurs fees and time consuming when to someone else's name

[New beginnings]

40 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

 

In your OP you state that you will not get your deposit back, yet in the quote above from a later post you state that there will just be a delay!  There's a big difference between the two, which one is it?

 

Basically she has stated that I will have to wait over 1 month to receive deposit knowing that to rent an apartment will use up most of the security deposit. She also knows that my retirement extension will expire on 30 November meaning I will have to leave and return to Thailand at additional cost. Also she has also confirmed that she will not be looking to refund full deposit.

[New beginnings]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

you did not mention that to start with. Sending money to overseas banks incurs fees and time consuming when to someone else's name

 

I appreciate your comments but if security deposit received within 15 days within terms of agreement I will still be in Thailand. I also have Bangkok bank account where monies could be deposited direct even if I am not in Thailand.

[BestB]

1 minute ago, New beginnings said:

 

I appreciate your comments but if security deposit received within 15 days within terms of agreement I will still be in Thailand. I also have Bangkok bank account where monies could be deposited direct even if I am not in Thailand.

it usually takes a month after moving out to get the deposit, because they wait for all the bills, but in your case if contract states 15 days then you have a leg to stand on 

[New beginnings]

31 minutes ago, BestB said:

it usually takes a month after moving out to get the deposit, because they wait for all the bills, but in your case if contract states 15 days then you have a leg to stand on 

 

I actually live in a condo and electric and water bills can be checked and agreed same day.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

yes they do, what do you mean clearly no.

 

How many people do you know who were paid up and had their locks changed? tenant went to police and landlord got away with it?

Actually, over 30 years + I'm aware of several cases where tenants went to the police and several cases where the landlord went to the police and the police laughed at all of them and told them to go away.

 

And I'm aware of one case where the landlord changed the locks and left a note for the tenant at the end of each month that the total bill has risen by one month's rent.

 

At total of 130,000Baht and after 2 lawyers were unsuccessful to get the landlord to budge in any way the young lady involved (an accountant) met a new bf, a farang, who quickly paid the whole bill and the farang insisted he pay the deposit etc., on a new apartment. Two years later they married. 

[BestB]

19 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Actually, over 30 years + I'm aware of several cases where tenants went to the police and several cases where the landlord went to the police and the police laughed at all of them and told them to go away.

 

And I'm aware of one case where the landlord changed the locks and left a note for the tenant at the end of each month that the total bill has risen by one month's rent.

 

At total of 130,000Baht and after 2 lawyers were unsuccessful to get the landlord to budge in any way the young lady involved (an accountant) met a new bf, a farang, who quickly paid the whole bill and the farang insisted he pay the deposit etc., on a new apartment. Two years later they married. 

Fascinating stories and i know my landlord some 10 years ago tried to pull this <deleted> and was arrested 30 mins later with 250 000 bail.

 

Just as i know back in BKK, Sukhumvit Park condo, Soi 10, a number of cases where owners tried to lock tenants out and all ended up locked up with 250 000 bail.

 

In all cases, including my own rent was overdue but 2 months worth of security deposit.

[DaRoadrunner]

1 hour ago, New beginnings said:

 

Unfortunately they have advised that she holds the deposit.

What does it say in your contract? Is the agent or landlord responsible to return the deposit?

[Mike Teavee]

58 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Actually, over 30 years + I'm aware of several cases where tenants went to the police and several cases where the landlord went to the police and the police laughed at all of them and told them to go away.

 

And I'm aware of one case where the landlord changed the locks and left a note for the tenant at the end of each month that the total bill has risen by one month's rent.

 

At total of 130,000Baht and after 2 lawyers were unsuccessful to get the landlord to budge in any way the young lady involved (an accountant) met a new bf, a farang, who quickly paid the whole bill and the farang insisted he pay the deposit etc., on a new apartment. Two years later they married. 

Interesting, if the tenant has a tenancy agreement and was paying rent why not just call a locksmith to say they'd lost the keys, gain access & have new locks fitted?

 

I ask this because lockpicking (My own locks of course) is my hobby, so would have had a go myself if it were me... For anybody who's interested I get most of my gear from these guys https://www.ukbumpkeys.com/ (Usually order it to my parents house in the UK & pick it up when I visit but they have delivered to Singapore in the past when I spotted a must have "Pin it yourself" practise lock https://www.ukbumpkeys.com/collections/practice-locks/products/dangerfield-premium-repinnable-6-pin-cut-away-practice-lock)

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Mike Teavee