Denied Tourist Visa at Both Vientienne and Savannakhet - Told 3-6 Months Max Stay in Thailand Rules Now in Effect

[scubascuba3]

This is true....I have never seen a Thai working in a Indian restaurant and I have never seen a farang restaurant with out a Thai working there....

I saw my first falang taxi bike a few days ago

[lkv]

4 hours ago, ExFarang said:

Believe me, don't believe me, it's up to you

I say NO. ????

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

I got a Lao extension from my original visa which expires monday- which is when I would have gotten my Thai visa back if they had any concept of consistency.

So you have been in Laos for 27 days already have you? ????

 

And you "lurked" around for "a long time", finally decided to join the forum and enlighten us.

 

Thank you.

Edited October 25, 2019 by lkv

[ColtenSloan]

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.. since you were denied the TV can you or anyone for that matter not just head to the border and cross on a visa exempt (30 day on arrival) 

 

Also may I ask which country you are from? 

[Caldera]

5 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

Hi. I appreciate the advice. I know you are trying to help so I sincerely thank you. But no way I am going to fly to another country to roll the dice with another Thai embassy. They simply are not reliable or professional. Plenty of other countries...

True, and I don't blame you for seeing it this way. Coincidentally, one reason why I toured Vietnam quite a bit this year (and obtained my last SETV in Hanoi while there) is that I also see the need to mix things up some more in the future (more time spent in other countries, less time spent in Thailand).

 

[ExFarang]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

ha ha.. Tells you all you need to know about the appeals of Laos.. Its economy hangs on the amount of visa runners Thailand accepts ????????

Agreed. But not much they can do being a landlocked country. I feel bad for them. They are genuinely nice people and they make due and have a much less greedy attitude than Thais do while surviving on much less.

 

Of course Thailand has a lot of good people too. But realistically they have become greedy and spoiled. I remember when I first came 15 years ago, the Lonely Planet guidebook said tipping is not usual in Thailand so it's not necessary.

 

Look at them now, they give you a real crappy attitude if you don't tip, even if it's for something not usually even customarily tip worthy like getting take away food or even if their service is really bad. But that's probably to a large extent a "big city" type of thing. In the sticks I think they are still good people mostly. But in BKK and elsewhere their attitude can be pretty dismissive, bordering on intolerant of foreigners. Many Thais use Farang in a pretty derogatory or mocking way. Most people just don't notice because they can't speak Thai.

 

Still, a lot of foreigners are drunken jerks and there is an overabundance of them so I guess I can sympathise. I'm not saying I hate Thailand or Thais. They are mostly good and decent people. But I have never seen a people so determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

China is not their savior like they think they will be. China's economy is failing badly. Lowest Chinese GDP numbers in 20 years just released last week, and Thai tourism down 10% as a result, so good luck with that. Now I see they are courting Indians. Anybody but westerners seems to be their goal. Again good luck. LoL

[chado]

5 hours ago, ExFarang said:

Consul officer is denying any tourist visa if you have stayed for only 3 months in Thailand previously. 

What do you mean? If one has stayed ever in his life 3 months in Thailand, in sum, he'll now never ever in his life be able to visit Thailand?

[Caldera]

2 minutes ago, chado said:

What do you mean? If one has stayed ever in his life 3 months in Thailand, in sum, he'll now never ever in his life be able to visit Thailand?

Savannakhet will not issue a tourist visa if you've spent 3 out of the last 6 months in Thailand. That's a local rule they have.

[GeorgeCross]

42 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

Hi. Can you point me to any official statement by the Thai government asserting this rule? I can't find what you are claiming anywhere officially. I mean, they clearly state on the Visa that it is good for 60 days, so Thai's apparently do understand the concept of setting 'stated' limits. Why do you think they refuse to make this clear? You state it as something obvious but if it's so obvious then why can't they delineate it properly? I mean if I overstayed 1 day then they have no problem enforcing that with a fine. Is it just a matter of selective enforcement based on the consular officers / IO's mood?

 

BTW, where are you drawing that statistic that "you are working in Thailand on a tourist visa, which probably 97% of all people living on those do." Where are you getting that number from? Out of thin air, or...?

 

Funny you mention that though as I brought that up with the worker at Savannakhet that I know that's probably what his boss thinks... and that it is an absurd conception. I said it jokingly and he agreed. But I asked him what "job" could I possibly have in Thailand?

 

There is no money to be made in Thailand. Thailand is only for spending money, not making money.  Want to know how to move to Thailand and become a Millionaire? Move here with 10 Million...

 

What am I going to be? An English teacher? Making 1K USD a month? LOL. No thanks. I literally told him all this and he 100% agreed it was "crazy"... His words. "Baa" he said. That's Thai for crazy. I haven't spent any time in Thailand for years but years back when I did spend more time there I literally never met one single person working there except when I first came there some 20 something told me he was an English teacher in some remote village and when he told me how much he made I laughed hysterically. That was 15 years ago, before they cracked down on language schools.

 

Ever seen a Farang taxi driver, or construction worker, or anything else? Because I never have so I don't know where you pull this magic 97% number out of your @ss.

 

The only people I have EVER seen possibly working (but who never admit to) are bar managers where they are friends with the bar owners but in that case the Thai need to clean their own house because everybody knows bar owners pay the police "tea money" so if anyone knows about illegal Farang workers they know exactly where to find them. 

 

But in reality I know many bar owners and they have always maintained that they are forbidden from even picking up a beer from the Thai bartender and handing it to me even when they are sitting right next to me.

 

So again, where are the news reports of any Farang ever working in Thailand except the odd English teacher in some backwater Providence? Because I've never seen it firsthand. Ever. 

 

What I do see is lots and lots of Indians running restaurants, or selling clothes and knickknacks or harrasing me for a custom suit with no Thai workers anywhere in sight. Never once a Westerner.

 

BTW, I am retirement age and as I said I provided a bank statement with a healthy bank balance so your "argument" is meaningless in any case. I just don't want to apply for a retirement visa because as I stated (which for some odd reason you refuse to accept) I don't live in Thailand, and have no desire to. Thus, a tourist... Whether you can come to terms with that or not.

 

 

 

 

so i came here when i was 28. back then it was quickly drummed into me that if i wanted to stay here long term i was going to need some kind of "work" - down on the islands (gulf side, won't elaborate more) that was generally entertainment (djs, touts), timeshare or diving, up north it was teaching then later nomad stuff (yeah yeah not "work" lol) and tourist trekking tour stuff. hua hin was teaching, touting, translating & online language lessons and bangkok once again entertainment, nomad stuff and teaching. never spent anytime in pattaya but heard some guys make some videos ????

 

of course there was various businesses mixed in too be it bars, restaurants, boats, clubs, real estate, etc

 

note all of this "work" can be done legally (with a work permit) and illegally (without)

 

back then it was mostly without lol but times have changed

 

so yes the 97% figure is about right - i think i only ever met a handful of guys who really really didn't need to work (and i was one of them). i had rental property back home others had the odd passive business but they were very rare.

 

 

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, Jano22 said:

But living in a foreign country WITHOUT health insurance is safe ?

Absolutely not safe, but lots of grey nomads are living here without health insurance, as many have said on this forum they don't have it. Thailand is saying bye bye to those people, thanks for coming.

[bbi1]

43 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

This is true....I have never seen a Thai working in a Indian restaurant and I have never seen a farang restaurant with out a Thai working there....

How are these Indians & Bangladesh managing to stay & work in Thailand legally? Surely they can't get work permits to work there as they don't have the required Thai staff. I don't think they're on tourist visas either. I'm not talking about the Indians with Thai nationality but the other ones.

[ExFarang]

5 minutes ago, ColtenSloan said:

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.. since you were denied the TV can you or anyone for that matter not just head to the border and cross on a visa exempt (30 day on arrival) 

 

Also may I ask which country you are from? 

You get 2 land border crossings a year now. No more. I didn't know that because I was gone for years and they made the change a couple years ago I guess. It was not like that before.

 

The guys at both embassies SK and VT told me to just fly in but I keep hearing horror stories of people getting detained in jail until deported so it just seems not worth it. Especially because the whole problem is they are so <deleted> inconsistent.

 

Like I said if they said Farangs are all barred from coming to Thailand I genuinely would have no hard feelings. It's their country -they can run it how they wish. I am a guest (or was). It's not my place to tell Thais or anyone else how to run their country. My issue is they don't codify anything and just wing it. Of course that's the issue, they won't go on the record with any time limit like officially saying 3 months or 6 months Max for tourists because nobody wants to be responsible in Thailand and they want to selectively enforce it, or make an exception if some cash just happens to fall out of your pocket and into the IO's wallet. Just make a rule and stick to it. Is it really that hard?

[chado]

3 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

i saw a friend post this yesterday regarding Penang, maybe same thing:

2 tourist visa during what period? life? after 2 TV you won't be allowed to get one more in your life ever?

[Matzzon]

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

Hi. Can you point me to any official statement by the Thai government asserting this rule?

No need for that. If you do not understand what the name "Tourist Visa" means, then it´s just sad for you.

If you do not understand that living in Thailand over 6 month in one year can not be considered short stay. It means that it´s your second home, for which a tourist visa is not to be used for. 

Common sense beat the <deleted> out of official statements by far. Try it some time ???? 
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

BTW, where are you drawing that statistic that "you are working in Thailand on a tourist visa, which probably 97% of all people living on those do." Where are you getting that number from? Out of thin air, or...?

From most people I meet in the age between 25-45 years old that are constantly trying to find a way to stay on their tourist visas, and if not that work they try with ED-visa.
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

Funny you mention that though as I brought that up with the worker at Savannakhet that I know that's probably what his boss thinks... and that it is an absurd conception. I said it jokingly and he agreed. But I asked him what "job" could I possibly have in Thailand?

You can work online with computer. It´s a legal grey zone, where nobody knows for sure if it´s ok or not. What´s not ok and what´s mostly happens in those cases is that the person working anyway is breaking the law. With staying over 6 months in Thailand, almost all nationalities are eligeble to pay tax on their incomes in Thailand. I would say that very few is doing that. If you have that kind of job you can make all from 1 million baht per year and up. That means Thailand misses out on about 12-13% on the first million due to a progressive taxation system.

Do you really think they like that? You can also export things from thailand to customers in your home countries and other countries. That is many people that are doing with e-bay as kust one example. That´s totally illegal. So, now you can bend over and laugh again. This time because you didn´t think and didn´t know before you posted total rubbish.
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

There is no money to be made in Thailand. Thailand is only for spending money, not making money.  Want to know how to move to Thailand and become a Millionaire? Move here with 10 Million...

See above. I am working legally, and making over 10 million per year.
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

What am I going to be? An English teacher? Making 1K USD a month? LOL. No thanks. I literally told him all this and he 100% agreed it was "crazy"... His words. "Baa" he said. That's Thai for crazy. I haven't spent any time in Thailand for years but years back when I did spend more time there I literally never met one single person working there except when I first came there some 20 something told me he was an English teacher in some remote village and when he told me how much he made I laughed hysterically. That was 15 years ago, before they cracked down on language schools.

Yes, because he was probably working without permit, like many still doing.
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

Ever seen a Farang taxi driver, or construction worker, or anything else? Because I never have so I don't know where you pull this magic 97% number out of your @ss.

You are talking about jobs in areas restricted to foreigners.
 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

The only people I have EVER seen possibly working (but who never admit to) are bar managers where they are friends with the bar owners but in that case the Thai need to clean their own house because everybody knows bar owners pay the police "tea money" so if anyone knows about illegal Farang workers they know exactly where to find them.  

Can´t know much people then. ???? 

 

40 minutes ago, ExFarang said:

But in reality I know many bar owners and they have always maintained that they are forbidden from even picking up a beer from the Thai bartender and handing it to me even when they are sitting right next to me.

 

So again, where are the news reports of any Farang ever working in Thailand except the odd English teacher in some backwater Providence? Because I've never seen it firsthand. Ever. 

 

What I do see is lots and lots of Indians running restaurants, or selling clothes and knickknacks or harrasing me for a custom suit with no Thai workers anywhere in sight. Never once a Westerner.

 

BTW, I am retirement age and as I said I provided a bank statement with a healthy bank balance so your "argument" is meaningless in any case. I just don't want to apply for a retirement visa because as I stated (which for some odd reason you refuse to accept) I don't live in Thailand, and have no desire to. Thus, a tourist... Whether you can come to terms with that or not.

Yes, you are a tourist as long as you do not live in Thailand over 6 month per year. In all other cases it has to be considered a try to climb up the ladder to a wannabe expat on tourist visa. 

[ExFarang]

10 minutes ago, chado said:

What do you mean? If one has stayed ever in his life 3 months in Thailand, in sum, he'll now never ever in his life be able to visit Thailand?

No. 3-6 months per calendar year is how I understood it.

[chado]

8 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Savannakhet will not issue a tourist visa if you've spent 3 out of the last 6 months in Thailand. That's a local rule they have.

Ahhhhaaaa. How can that be called a problem? That's a miiiiiiiiiiiinor incovenience.

Edited October 25, 2019 by chado

[moldresistant]

This is disappointing to hear.

 

Meanwhile, a Thai person can get a visa into the US and overstay, get a driver's license and have rights while in Thailand the long-stay tourists are treated like criminals for trying to stay longer in the country.

 

Many of us have steady incomes from investments, etc. and just want to be a tourist here longer than someone with a job would. What's so wrong about a year-long retreat in a tropical paradise? I retired at 30, I'm not the cattle-brain type who thinks every long-stay Tourist Visa holder is working illegally (at something as low paying and bad of a job as an ESL teacher pfft). Ridiculous.

 

Wish you luck.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by moldresistant

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

I will bet you a tidy sum of money its more like 97% on tourist visas ARE NOT WORKING....

Yes, you are right. Then you are counting with the ones that can be counted as tourists. The ones that comes on a holiday for about 2 x 2 weeks up to a really long holiday of 1-3 month per year.

They are not complaining, because they do not have any problem going out and in of Thailand. I was only counting all the ones trying to live in Thailand on tourist visas and complaining on this forum because they do not understand better.

[Nomad001]

2 minutes ago, chado said:

2 tourist visa during what period? life? after 2 TV you won't be allowed to get one more in your life ever?

That's what I want to know. And I wonder if this new rule will spread out to all consulates. 

[ExFarang]

4 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

should put an end to all the "why issue the visa & then deny entry?" posts

 

however i'll take with a pinch until i hear more reports. they should flood in if confirmed

I understand this view. Fair enough. But in fairness also, I think you overestimate how many people use this forum, or at least join to post. I have used this forum for 15 years and never joined until today. Just because you don't see a flood of reports doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

I would view it as in like the US, people say that snail mai letter writing to your Congressman is the best way to express displeasure since they estimate that if just 1 person took the time out to write an angry letter, then that likely represents at least 100 or even 1000 other people that feel similarly.

 

Also keep in mind that most people that do bother to join here are on retirement visas and O/ non-O types, so the member numbers here skew that way and the embassy only mentioned tourist visa limits so the issue could go under-reported to a large extent.

 

I guess time will tell. We'll see what happens. Or rather you guys will because I'm not dealing with a place that's openly hostile to me and is in my opinion clearly sending me a message to f-off. I'll just f-off. No hard feelings. Not going to cry about it. It's just the way it is now. Time to move on.

 

Like I said I honestly wasn't planning on staying long term in Thailand anyway, so it's not an issue for me anyway, I am kind of burned out on it. I just wanted to finish up some medical stuff, see some beaches that I never saw before when I was here, and at the very most hang out a while it's winter in the west, but wasn't planning on staying past then anyway at the very latest.

 

It's no big deal for me. I'm not bitter. Everything happens for a reason. If I decided to try a Visa free airport entry and miraculously got in, then it was meant to be, and if I don't try to (much more likely) then I'll go somewhere else and thats what was meant to be.

[ExFarang]

1 hour ago, moldresistant said:

This is disappointing to hear.

 

Meanwhile, a Thai person can get a visa into the US and overstay, get a driver's license and have rights while in Thailand the long-stay tourists are treated like criminals for trying to stay longer in the country.

 

Many of us have steady incomes from investments, etc. and just want to be a tourist here longer than someone with a job would. What's so wrong about a year-long retreat in a tropical paradise? I retired at 30, I'm not the cattle-brain type who thinks every long-stay Tourist Visa holder is working illegally (at something as low paying and bad of a job as an ESL teacher pfft). Ridiculous.

 

Wish you luck.

 

Thanks for the well wishes. You actually summed it up pretty nicely in fact.

[Hackney35]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

I will bet you a tidy sum of money its more like 97% on tourist visas ARE NOT WORKING....

Yeah I don’t think most people work on tourist visas either actually.

thailand doesn’t seem to understand that there are loads of rich people under 50 in the west who can survive off passive income sources. 

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Hackney35 said:

Yeah I don’t think most people work on tourist visas either actually.

thailand doesn’t seem to understand that there are loads of rich people under 50 in the west who can survive off passive income sources. 

I have known a few on tourist visas who were working, over the years. When things started to tighten up, one married a bird to get a Multi-O and carried on working without a WP .....

[DogNo1]

I infer that the OP had recently stayed in Thailand for six months on three visa waivers and extensions before he applied for the tourist visa.  There have been quite a few posts on the forum recently about people with a recent series of short stays being denied entry even if they have a visa. This happened to a friend of mine this year who was forced to go back to Australia for a while until he can come back for a short stay next year.  The reality is that immigration officers are now required to limit the amount of time that a person can stay in-country during one year’s time.  There seems to be no way around that for the under-fifty group except for the expensive Elite Visa.  It’s frustrating for the young group but those are the rules that are now being enforced.

Things have changed for we over-fifties too with more onerous financial requirements.  It is not known whether people on retirement and marriage extensions will be required to buy health insurance but Thai families will be against it if they are negatively impacted. People on non-O extensions are a varied group with some of us just being too old to buy insurance.  If the government doesn’t offer a practical option to me, I will have to limit my stay to a shorter period each year or just return to California to live.  I now split my time between Japan and Thailand but don’t like cold weather.  Since I have health insurance in both Japan and the US, I hope that I won’t be required to buy it in Thailand.

[scubascuba3]

No. 3-6 months per calendar year is how I understood it.

The thing to do is avoid those places that enforce 3-6 months only. I've stayed far longer on METVs and immigration are very relaxed about it

[Langkawee]

You don't know how lucky you are. Immigration has done you a favour. Take a look at the beautiful women in Vietnam and Philippines. You have escaped. Thank God you haven't ended up trapped in the Land of sh*te

[La Migra]

Sorry if this was already suggested: so many long posts, quoting other long posts in full.... so I skipped a few pages.

You talked about medical stuff you were having done - why not get a medical visa?

"1. Medical Tourist Visa: 40 USD for single entry of no more than 60 days

2. Non-Immigrant O Visa (Medical Treatment): 80 USD single entry of no more than 90 days, which can be extended and changed to multiple entries at Immigration Office in Thailand."

....... extra steps than just a tourist visa, but seems to fit your profile and might get you past that pesky too much time in country rule.

[mikebike]

6 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

You don't know how lucky you are. Immigration has done you a favour. Take a look at the beautiful women in Vietnam and Philippines. You have escaped. Thank God you haven't ended up trapped in the Land of sh*te

Thank God I don't live where there are many other foreigners. The only time I'm subjected to this insecent whinging is here on Thai Visa...

[holy cow cm]

3 hours ago, ExFarang said:

Hi. Can you point me to any official statement by the Thai government asserting this rule? I can't find what you are claiming anywhere officially. I mean, they clearly state on the Visa that it is good for 60 days, so Thai's apparently do understand the concept of setting 'stated' limits. Why do you think they refuse to make this clear? You state it as something obvious but if it's so obvious then why can't they delineate it properly? I mean if I overstayed 1 day then they have no problem enforcing that with a fine. Is it just a matter of selective enforcement based on the consular officers / IO's mood?

 

BTW, where are you drawing that statistic that "you are working in Thailand on a tourist visa, which probably 97% of all people living on those do." Where are you getting that number from? Out of thin air, or...?

 

Funny you mention that though as I brought that up with the worker at Savannakhet that I know that's probably what his boss thinks... and that it is an absurd conception. I said it jokingly and he agreed. But I asked him what "job" could I possibly have in Thailand?

 

There is no money to be made in Thailand. Thailand is only for spending money, not making money.  Want to know how to move to Thailand and become a Millionaire? Move here with 10 Million...

 

What am I going to be? An English teacher? Making 1K USD a month? LOL. No thanks. I literally told him all this and he 100% agreed it was "crazy"... His words. "Baa" he said. That's Thai for crazy. I haven't spent any time in Thailand for years but years back when I did spend more time there I literally never met one single person working there except when I first came there some 20 something told me he was an English teacher in some remote village and when he told me how much he made I laughed hysterically. That was 15 years ago, before they cracked down on language schools.

 

Ever seen a Farang taxi driver, or construction worker, or anything else? Because I never have so I don't know where you pull this magic 97% number out of your @ss.

 

The only people I have EVER seen possibly working (but who never admit to) are bar managers where they are friends with the bar owners but in that case the Thai need to clean their own house because everybody knows bar owners pay the police "tea money" so if anyone knows about illegal Farang workers they know exactly where to find them. 

 

But in reality I know many bar owners and they have always maintained that they are forbidden from even picking up a beer from the Thai bartender and handing it to me even when they are sitting right next to me.

 

So again, where are the news reports of any Farang ever working in Thailand except the odd English teacher in some backwater Providence? Because I've never seen it firsthand. Ever. 

 

What I do see is lots and lots of Indians running restaurants, or selling clothes and knickknacks or harrasing me for a custom suit with no Thai workers anywhere in sight. Never once a Westerner.

 

BTW, I am retirement age and as I said I provided a bank statement with a healthy bank balance so your "argument" is meaningless in any case. I just don't want to apply for a retirement visa because as I stated (which for some odd reason you refuse to accept) I don't live in Thailand, and have no desire to. Thus, a tourist... Whether you can come to terms with that or not.

 

 

I think there are medical visas. So why did you not go that way? But you are correct, the country has become very un warm unwelcoming as not conducive for the foreigners who happened to build their country up from the BRA straps. They are certainly being overly hitting out and this is primarily over the military government that is increasingly I don't care and xenophobic. Did I mention they don't care? It would seem that 90% of these not nice people are of Chinese decent? Speculation. American or of EU decent Thai or Thai having American or EU in them would not do this to an American or EU person on the level they are snubbing everyone. I would just hope that they themselves are denied in prospective countries for having relations with the Chinese or what not. 

 

Anyway, medical route was the way you should have went, and sorry to say it seems we and Thailand have lost yet another well intentioned bonafide person. Hope you are well and maybe come back after this charade of persecution has subsided. 

[JohnWayene]

1 hour ago, moldresistant said:

They wasted their lives away working the 9-5 and think all "nomad" types are poor backpackers.

Most are. There are successful ones but they don't stick around in Thailand eating 40K baht pork soup and live in 6000K  25 SQM room. Have seen You tube videos where the nomad was proudly proclaiming his discovery of a gold mine for 2K (a hell hole without a/c) in CNX. Not all of them are Nomadic Matt.

Edited October 25, 2019 by JohnWayene