Bang Bang

[stroll]

Quite an eye-opener, this thread. I haven't had any trouble here in 6 years and tell everybody so, but having read through this thread, maybe my Thai friends aren't overly concerned with their warnings to me.

[mag4570]

By FBI statistics in the US where gun control is heavily enforced crime has spiraled upwards by people using guns, In contrast where citizens are encouraged to arm them selves crime has diminished, Basically criminals are a cowardly lot who would not take on an armed subject knowing they would be the victim, This has been established in Australia where gun control is very strict & crime has skyrocketed, Also in the UK, The Bobbies used to be not armed but now have been armed to control the upsurge of violence w/ firearms.

Criminals do not register their guns where the authorities require gun control, Nor do they buy them yet they still get them & continue using them on law abiding citizens who are unarmed. In the very heart of the US the nations capitol DC they had the highest murder rate of the nation by firearms & also strict gun control, So go figure, The facts do not lie, Yet gun control advocates still argue that taking away guns reduce crime is a lot of hogwash, Even when the facts prove different.

[snowleopard]

There was a murder here last night, two men arguing over a woman ( no I don't know either) she was there by the way, a gun was pulled and two shots fired.

One man dead the other in police custody and she is looking for a new boyfriend or two.

So what you might ask?

People are getting shot, stabbed, poisoned etc . everyday of the week here.

This is for any budding Rambos' out there, before to steam in like you do back in your own country think about just how many firearms there are here and the Thai mans mind when he has had a drink or two.

If you do you might be in with a chance of seeing your own country again.

It looks like the Realm's gunslingers are right on the mark and can score quite well.

They have been blasting away happily for years now;and,in the year of 2000 they could proudly brandish a bronze-medal ranking spot in the "Marksmanship's World Series"!

What an amazing achievement in that competitive big league!!

All are Welcome to admire the fun,skill,beauty and grace displayed by the adept players of this great bloodsport,which includes-among others-the separate disciplines of... armed self-defense,ambush-assassinations,extra-judicial killings,witness-silencings,jealousy-shootings,revenge-slayings,armed duels and,of course, the "no-bounds held" fun-sniping competition,where hitting innocent by-standers and hapless passers-by can also be helpful in scoring valuable points!

The sniping event is a "must see" if you dare to be a spectator!

If you've got the guts and wanna join in,then just bring your "Saturday Night Special" to the scene.

Happy hour starts from 6 p.m.!Blast and get blasted!(pun )

"Now,Let the Games Commence..."!

Murders committed with firearms

1.South Africa 31 918 (year 2000)

2.Columbia 21 898 (year 2000)

3.THAILAND 20 032 (year 2000)

4.U.S.A. 8 259 (year 1999)

5.Mexico 3 589 (year 2000)

6.Zimbabwe 598

7.Germany 384

8.Belarus 331

9.Czech Rep. 213

10.Ukraine 173

Nevertheless,I think that the streets of Bangkok are very safe compared to big cities in Euorope and the U.S.!

I feel safe strolling around at nights and I've been doing that for years without problem.

Based on personal observations from having lived in several countries and from following the media,I gather that incidences of crime against strangers seem to be much lower in Thailand than in the West.

I would guess that it's mostly business deals having gone sour and family quarrels spinning out of control that account for the high number of firearms' killings in L.O.S.!

The perpetrator and the victim are usually acquainted beforehand.

In Thailand,it appears like you must be properly introduced first to the "Grim Reaper" who's later gonna become the bane of your life;while in the West it might be a total stranger popping up out of nowhere to pop you!

Of course,the common phenomenon of hired hitmen (มือปืน) in the Realm are exempted from falling into the above category.

My two cents' worth survival tip for survivalist residents of Thailand,

"For protection,keep only one loaded gun with the safety catch on hidden away at a safe place in the house;and no people"!

Remember the old adage,"People kill,not guns"!

With these precautions,if you manage to shoot yourself dead anyway,then you can blame nobody for your death!

Not even yourself!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[mag4570]

By FBI statistics in the US where gun control is heavily enforced crime has spiraled upwards by people using guns, In contrast where citizens are encouraged to arm them selves crime has diminished, Basically criminals are a cowardly lot who would not take on an armed subject knowing they would be the victim, This has been established in Australia where gun control is very strict & crime has skyrocketed, Also in the UK, The Bobbies used to be not armed but now have been armed to control the upsurge of violence w/ firearms.

Criminals do not register their guns where the authorities require gun control, Nor do they buy them yet they still get them & continue using them on law abiding citizens who are unarmed. In the very heart of the US the nations capitol DC they had the highest murder rate of the nation by firearms & also strict gun control, So go figure, The facts do not lie, Yet gun control advocates still argue that taking away guns reduce crime is a lot of hogwash, Even when the facts prove different.

[stroll]

By FBI statistics in the US where gun control is heavily enforced crime has spiraled upwards by people using guns, In contrast where citizens are encouraged to arm them selves crime has diminished, Basically criminals are a cowardly lot who would not take on an armed subject knowing they would be the victim, This has been established in Australia where gun control is very strict & crime has skyrocketed, Also in the UK, The Bobbies used to be not armed but now have been armed to control the upsurge of violence w/ firearms.

Criminals do not register their guns where the authorities require gun control, Nor do they buy them yet they still get them & continue using them on law abiding citizens who are unarmed. In the very heart of the US the nations capitol DC they had the highest murder rate of the nation by firearms & also strict gun control, So go figure, The facts do not lie, Yet gun control advocates still argue that taking away guns reduce crime is a lot of hogwash, Even when the facts prove different.

These are not facts, but someone using statistics to make a connection and place an argument. I could argue that even the strictest law inforcement doesn't prevent people from stealing, so theft should be made legal. But that would be a silly argument, wouldn't it?

I don't know which is better, but I tell you guns and knives frighten the living daylights out of me, and I wouldn't want people to be allowed to carry them around on their pub crawls, nor to use them to shoot at anybody who passes their house in the evening.

I refused to do military service, on the basis that guns are not made to be carried with peaceful intentions, but to be used, i.e. shoot somebody.

I propose plastic water pistols should be issued free of charge to anybody who believes guns will prevent violence.

[GuestHouse]

I'll say again.

Singapore is the safest city in the world

Singapore has 0% Civilian Gun Ownership

It also has the most effective law enforcement in the world, were an American teenager was flogged for vandelism and the then US president asked for clemancy.

The Singapore government replied that they have their own ways of dealing with crime and that these are proven to work.

Maybe the US should have asked for an instruction manual.

SnowLeapard,

Can you give us the figures for the lowest gun deaths and crime statistics.... my bet is they are countries with no Civilian gun ownership.

[maerim]

It also has the most effective law enforcement in the world, were an American teenager was flogged for vandelism and the then US president asked for clemancy

This was a few years ago he was defacing cars, no small expense in Singapore.

I heard an interview about this flogging with an American reporter and someone from the justice department.

The interviewer said flogging in inhumane.

Is it? said the person fron the justice department.

He then asked the reporter if there was a lot of vandalism in the USA he said there was.

The reply came back that there is not much vandalism in Singapore.

I know where I would rather park my motor.

[stroll]

'I know where I would rather park my motor.'

In the lower valued property areas of East London or Bradford, I bet.

[guido]

Someone here posted keep your head down.ok..thats a humble way to hold yourself and there's merit to this.Humility is a good thing!But,thats a problem i have with livin in los,i cant walk around half bowed all the time as a means of self preservation regardless of what happens.It is simply not my nature and in fact i doubt if it's the nature of most.i can accept that this is not a bad idea[head down]in los,and ill keep it in mind when i visit.Im not walkin around the rest of my life like that just to live somewhere...a visit or partime there ok.

[mag4570]

Stroll: You have the right to your opinion, But i beg to differ with you, The posting is based on facts released by the FBI in the USA, You may check them out at your leisure, Useing Google or Yahoo search, So please do.

[maerim]

cant walk around half bowed all the time as a means of self preservation

You don't have to, I would think what most people who have replied to this besides the kill 'em all brigade, is just don't get involved.

Now to me that's a bit differnt to walking around with your head bowed.

[mowlem]

Err......so gun control doesn't work??

"By our readiness to allow arms to be purchased at will and fired at whim; by allowing our movies and television screens to teach our children that the hero is one who masters the art of shooting and the technique of killing... we have created an atmosphere in which violence and hatred have become popular past times" - Martin Luther King, November, 1963

Facts.

In an analysis of 14 countries, the correlation between gun ownership and gun suicide was also significant, as was the correlation of gun ownership with overall suicide rates. Killias found no evidence of a compensation process whereby other means were substituted with firearms. (Killias, M. "International Correlations between Gun Ownership and Rate of Homicide and Suicide." Canadian Medical Association Journal. 1993;148 (10): 1721-5)

While the murder rate without guns in the US is roughly equivalent (1.8 times) to that of Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 14.5 times the Canadian rate. The costs of firearms death and injury in the two countries have been compared and estimated to be $495 (US) per resident in the United States compared to $195 per resident in Canada.

Australian states with registration had significantly lower rates of homicide and suicide with firearms than states without registration of firearms.

The easiest response to suggestions that Canadian civilians need guns to protect themselves is to look south to the US to see where arming for self protection leads. While rates of violence in the US are comparable to countries such as Canada, Australia and Great Britain, rates of lethal violence are much higher. For example, murders without guns in the US are about 40% higher (1.4 times the rate) than in Canada while murders WITH handguns are 1500% higher (15 times the rate).

Mauser's earlier work on arming for self-protection was funded by the NRA and has been critiqued by many academics. In one often cited study, Mauser argued that firearms are used between 62,500 and 80,000 times per year for self-defence. This is based on a 1995 telephone survey of 1,505 Canadians, in which 2.1% (32) of respondents claimed that they or a member of their household had used a gun for self-protection (either against a person or an animal) over the last five years. Of those, 12.9 % (5) claimed they or a member of their household had used a gun to protect themselves against a person within the last 5 years. Mauser extrapolates this to the Canadian population.

Dr. David Hemenway, Professor, Harvard University in an affidavit to the Alberta Court of Appeal, notes that Mausers study contains "incorrect assertions and misleading statements." The study fails to distinguish perception from reality - grabbing a gun in response to a bump in the night does not mean that anyone has actually been defended themselves against a threat. " It is not appropriate to extrapolate the results of a simple, self-reported study or a RARE event, particularly when there is the possibility of positive social desirability response, or personal presentation bias. The results will be wild over estimates." He compares Mauser's methodology to a 1995 survey by NBC which asked 1500 Americans "Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?". Extrapolating the results (0.6%) to the entire US population would suggest that 1.2 million Americans have been in actual contact with aliens.

I prefer to live in a country where everybody does not have a gun.

[Kan Win]

Someone  here posted keep your head down.ok..thats a humble way to hold yourself and there's merit to this.Humility is a good thing!But,thats a problem i have with livin in los,i cant walk around half bowed all the time as a means of self preservation regardless of what happens.It is simply not my nature and in fact i doubt if it's the nature of most.i can accept that this is not a bad idea[head down]in los,and ill keep it in mind when i visit.Im not walkin around the rest of my life like that just to live somewhere...a visit or partime there ok.

Keep your head down, means (correct me if I am Wong) :-

To keep out of trouble and most of all “Mind your own business” and “do not speak bad about anybody or anything in Public”

That to me means “Keep your head down”

So be proud of yourself and “Walk Tall” Guido and me think you Kan Win.

Edited June 8, 2004 by Kan Win

[snowleopard]

I'll say again.

Singapore is the safest city in the world

Singapore has 0% Civilian Gun Ownership

It also has the most effective law enforcement in the world, were an American teenager was flogged for vandelism and the then US president asked for clemancy.

The Singapore government replied that they have their own ways of dealing with crime and that these are proven to work.

Maybe the US should have asked for an instruction manual.

SnowLeapard,

Can you give us the figures for the lowest gun deaths and crime statistics.... my bet is they are countries with no Civilian gun ownership.

SnowLeapard,

Can you give us the figures for the lowest gun deaths and crime statistics.... my bet is they are countries with no Civilian gun ownership.

Here you go!

It's the continuation of the list above.

Read it backwards for the lowest number of deaths by firearm!

That's New Zealand with only 7!

Maybe all the Singaporeans missed the target and had nothing to report that year!

11.Poland 166 (2000)

12.Canada 165 (1999)

13.Costa Rica 126 (1999)

14.Slovakia 117 (2000)

15.Spain 97 (2000)

16.Uruguay 84 (2000)

17.Portugal 84 (2000)

18.Lithuania 83 (2000)

19.Bulgaria 63 (2000)

20.United Kingdom 62 (1999)

21.Australia 59 (2000)

22.Hungary 44 (2000)

23.Switzerland 40 (2000)

24.Latvia 30 (2000)

25.Macedonia 26 (i.e the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) (2000)

26.Estonia 21 (2000)

27.Moldova 20 (2000)

28.Azerbaijan 18 (2000)

29.Denmark 14 (2000)

30.Ireland 12 (1999)

31.Slovenia 12 (2000)

32.New Zealand 7 (2000)

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[KevinN]

GUESTHOUSE, snowleopard did this post,,,

,,,Murders committed with firearms

1.South Africa 31 918 (year 2000)

2.Columbia 21 898 (year 2000)

3.THAILAND 20 032 (year 2000)-----------------------restricted gun ownership

4.U.S.A. 8 259 (year 1999)---------------------------open gun ownership

5.Mexico 3 589 (year 2000)-------------------------complete gun ban

6.Zimbabwe 598

7.Germany 384

8.Belarus 331

9.Czech Rep. 213

10.Ukraine 173

Mexico in the 60s I can't remember the year,banned all gun ownership and also the ownership of all ammo, if you are caught in mexico with a discharged 22 cal. rim fire case in your car,you go to prison and your car is impounded,even if you just came across the border from San Diego.Even policemen have a hard time getting ammo for their service pistols.

and as you can see,complete gun bans do not work,it only tells the criminal that as a law abiding person,,you will not have a gun.Gun bans do not work.Thailand is a country that is very strict on gun ownership,your right to own is set by the police and most people can not legally own a gun,,I have looked and can not find any listed regulations for gun ownership here,but was told by a policeman that a farang can not own firearms,and that even includes air power guns including a DAISY BB gun. So it appears that all the killing that mairim is crying about was done by criminals even before they managed to get a gun.check the population of a country and then check the gun crimes and you will see,even with the heavy drug use of today that the USA is lower on gun crimes than Thailand even with gun controls in force here.

Stroll,,boy if I was a draft dodger I sure wouldn't go on open forums and tell about it,sure hope you ain't from my country,what with the drug use and criminals,I got enough to be ashamed of with out that too.

[KevinN]

When i go over I am going to dress like a monk

nobody hurts a monk

You got that wrong too,,They also hack monks and school children to death with knives and machetes

[snowleopard]

When i go over I am going to dress like a monk

   nobody hurts a monk

You got that wrong too,,They also hack monks and school children to death with knives and machetes

Getting involved in any religion is dangerous!

Snowleopard.

[stroll]

Stroll,,boy if I was a draft dodger I sure wouldn't go on open forums and tell about it,sure hope you ain't from my country,what with the drug use and criminals,I got enough to be ashamed of with out that too.

I am proud to be a draft dodger.

I am also a (former) drug addict, but ain't proud of it.

So, criminal, yes also, see above.

But don't worry, I am not American, nor do I live in your Ampur, you won't catch anything from me.

[mowlem]

So Mexico "banned" guns? How was it enforced?

Strange you compare US with Mexico, but not Canada or UK.

WHERE THERE ARE LARGE QUANTITIES OF GUNS AVAILABLE TO THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IN A COUNTRY, PEOPLE USE THEM.

IF THEY HAVE NO ACCESS TO GUNS, THEY CAN'T.

To answer the simple question, Am I safer here than in the UK, or US? the answer is "yes"

Is there violence here? Of course, but you are either very stupid, or very unlucky to get caught by it. (I've met farang from both groups)

Final point, in the US, they are talking about unbannig the AK47, and the uzi machine gun. Who the ###### needs that in their house??

[snowleopard]

Stroll,,boy if I was a draft dodger I sure wouldn't go on open forums and tell about it,sure hope you ain't from my country,what with the drug use and criminals,I got enough to be ashamed of with out that too.

I am proud to be a draft dodger.

I am also a (former) drug addict, but ain't proud of it.

So, criminal, yes also, see above.

But don't worry, I am not American, nor do I live in your Ampur, you won't catch anything from me.

I am proud to be a draft dodger.

Draft dodging and disobedience might be a good thing sometimes!

Why should murder of innocent women and children with firearms suddenly become morally right and even heroic just because a theocratic moron and hypocrite with apocalyptic obsessions like "George W. Bush-Baby" says so?!

Frequent prayer meetings held among empty war heads in the Oval Office to ask for divine guidance as to when the optimal moment for launching Armageddon has arrived!

Amount of cannon fodder is inconsequential and soldiers expendable!

Sacrificial lambs on the nationalistic altar!

He,himself, is a draft dodger,isn't he?

Are victims of collateral damage included in the statistics,"Murder with Firearms"?

Snowleopard.

[Johpa]

3.THAILAND 20 032 (year 2000)-----------------------restricted gun ownership

Thailand may have restricted gun ownership, but handguns are commonly available in the rural areas. Actually, in Thailand one does not need to get a gun. Just as it is easy to find a tour guide with a car it is just as easy for a Thai to find a gun and someone to use it. Cost to eliminate ordinary citizens is less than funeral costs. Most unfortunately, many gunmen are described in the newspapers after a shooting as wearing a white t-shirt, khaki pants, black shoes, and sunglasses. You do the math.

[maerim]

Thailand may have restricted gun ownership, but handguns are commonly available in the rural areas. Actually, in Thailand one does not need to get a gun. Just as it is easy to find a tour guide with a car it is just as easy for a Thai to find a gun and someone to use it. Cost to eliminate ordinary citizens is less than funeral costs. Most unfortunately, many gunmen are described in the newspapers after a shooting as wearing a white t-shirt, khaki pants, black shoes, and sunglasses. You do the math.

You will see this on all the tourist brochures on how wonderful Thailand is providing you only stay here two weeks and visit all the attaractions they say you should.

Try living here.

[snowleopard]

3.THAILAND 20 032 (year 2000)-----------------------restricted gun ownership

Thailand may have restricted gun ownership, but handguns are commonly available in the rural areas. Actually, in Thailand one does not need to get a gun. Just as it is easy to find a tour guide with a car it is just as easy for a Thai to find a gun and someone to use it. Cost to eliminate ordinary citizens is less than funeral costs. Most unfortunately, many gunmen are described in the newspapers after a shooting as wearing a white t-shirt, khaki pants, black shoes, and sunglasses. You do the math.

Most unfortunately, many gunmen are described in the newspapers after a shooting as wearing a white t-shirt, khaki pants, black shoes, and sunglasses.

I think I saw him on the street several times today!

How much is the bounty on his head?

Where can I claim the reward money if I manage to catch him tomorrow?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[maerim]

Why not take Kev's advice?

Everyone no matter how deranged, can carry a firearm.

As he so rightly says it's people who kill people not the guns, the fact they use guns to kill people is by the by according to his way of thinking.

Not sure about the age limit though, what do you think?

Big enough or an age limit?

[350torana]

It's people who kill people not the guns. This is of course true. But only because having a gun makes killing more easy. I am not sure about Thailand but in most western countries the majority of firearm related deaths are domestic situations.

[stroll]

I have seen 7 year olds handle heavy duty water guns competently outside the nearby school at Sonkran. I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their civil right to reclaim the sweets other kids have taken off them with an Uzi or similar lightweight device.

Ak 47s should be restricted to older ones, they'd be too heavy to be handled safely.

As for bystanders -if you mix with people who steal in front of your eyes, -tough!

Next time a cabdriver tries to defraud me, saying the meter doesn't work, I'll stick the polished end of my magnum up his nostril...

Enraged upright expats could sort out all these overstaying, barefooted, stinking backpackers flocking to bordercrossings to have their passports stamped.

Dave and Chaaman could finally sort their differences in traditional Western style outside the saloon.

As you see, owning a gun is also educational, actually prevents a variety of crimes from being committed and reduces the burden of expensive legal procedures to the taxpayer. .

[dfwbkk]

Hmmm...

Total Murders per year : 5140

Murders with firearms: 20032

?

Where's the mistake? Typo on the 20032? (2032?)

Guys, has the number 20032 Murders with firearms been confirmed from any other source than the NationMaster web-site?

Look at the stats for total murders per year. It should naturally be higher than the portion of the murders which were committed with firearms.

Look at all the other countries on the list and this adds up to be how it's presented.

If so, which number is incorrect: 20032 w/guns or the 5140 total??

/// DFW

[GuestHouse]

Getting back to the original post.

As Maerim suggested, we would all be well advised to think very carefully before interceding in an argument with Thais or getting into an argument with Thais we do not know (including road rage).

Thais too often will respond with violence and very often gun violence.

I lived just outside Pattaya for a number of years and can testify that hardly a week went by without at least one gun killing, very often more than one such killing per week.

To be honest most of these killings were Thais killing Thais, but a significant number of foreigners are killed every year in Thailand in shootings.

I have related the story of an Englishman killed in a bar on Pattaya second road (he got involved in someone elses arguement). But I also recall a young foreign woman (German if I recal correctly) being gunned down in Soi Post office by a stray bullet when two Thais started a shoot out.

A Thai driver working for my employers was shot and critically injured in the car lot of one of our offices over a gambling debt.

Friends of mine where in a restaurant (Steak Loas - now Steak Baow) when a government employee pulled a gun and started firing off shots over a drunken row with his dinner partners.

Another friend had a gun waved in his face - in his living room - infront of his family, as a warning to settle a legitimate deduction from his rent.

Two years ago a gang of Thai youths had a shoot out at the Pattaya music festival, three people where killed and a handful injured (Surprisingly few given the crowds).

I have seen Thais waving guns at each other out of cars on more than one occassion and I personally know a guy who had a bullet sent to him when he dismissed a member of his staff. (He bought the guy off with a large payement and a farewell party, rather than the instant dismisal that he deserved)

Contrary to what the 'Gun Lobby' here will tell you, these are not your low life criminals with guns, these are for the most part ordinary people who resort to violence and use guns because guns are available.

In a society in which self control is part of the religion and culture but where people "Flip" to extreme tempers, guns are available and are used.

What goes on in the US/Canada or indeed Singapore is irrelavent.

In Thailand it is always best to remember that guns are an all too often choice of the means to settle arguments.

As for keeping a gun of your own.

The most often chosen means of attack with guns is the drive by shooting. A gun in your bedside cabinet is not much use when you are sitting in a traffic jam while Somchai and his pillion passenger pop your brains out.

The very best advice is, avoid conflict (Most of us do that anyway) and if you do get a conflict (as with guy dismissing his employee) settle the argument to the best of everyone's advantage.

What ever you do, do not battle with a Thai in Thailand, you will not win.

[maerim]

What ever you do, do not battle with a Thai in Thailand, you will not win.

Amen to that

[john b good]

GuestHouse, you have confirmed my long held opinion that the majority of Thais have virtually no self control and with even the slightest provocation will resort to violence.

If it weren't for the fact that most of the girls were so god*mn screwable they would not have much more going for them either.