THAI told to speed up ฿156bn new aircraft purchase plan

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, Cadbury said:

The other day they were saying Thai Airways was virtually going bankrupt and having a wheels up belly crash landing.

Today all problems are solved and it's.......... up, up and away, the skies are ours.

Amazing what a few motivating words from PM Prayut in their shell-like ear can do.

 

It's all very confusing except for holding Thai taxpayers hostage.

• 2019-08-07: Seeking loans is seen as difficult as THAI has been making losses.
• 2019-08-14: As for the plan to buy 38 new aircraft worth Bt156 billion, it needs to be reconsidered because the government has insisted that the funding for the purchase must come from the company - THAI president Sumeth Damrongchaitham
• 2019-08-19: Deputy Transport Minister Thavorn Senniam has called on Thai Airways International (THAI) to reconsider its request to purchase 38 aircraft, saying 25 is a more reasonable number.
• 2019-08-20: Former Finance Minister and Democrat list MP Korn Chatikavanich has voiced his concern over the financial crisis facing Thai Airways International and, at the same time, has objected to any plan to use taxpayers’ money to rescue the national flag carrier.     
• 2019-09-25: Thai Airways International Pcl was reviewing its fleet-expansion plans to procure 38 new planes, as it considered funding sources, nearly two years after it announced the order - review will take six months2019-09-27: THAI could lease rather than purchase more aircraft
• 2019-10-04: THAI president Sumeth Damrongchaitham said that THAI has sufficient cash flow for present and future operations and denied reports that THAI is in trouble and experiencing a liquidity shortage.  
• 2019-10-15: THAI’s board chairman Aek-Niti Nitithan-Praphas also said the board is reconsidering plans to procure a new fleet taking into consideration the state of the global and domestic economies as well as the US-China trade war.   

Now THAI is told to speed up acquisition of 38 new aircraft?!?

Meanwhile remember that THAI backs Nok Air's purchase of new aircraft while subsidiary THAI Smile tries to raise Bt5 billion capital to repay debts to its parent company. : https://www.nationthailand.com/business/30374082

It is not only that THAI is out of control - it's the Thai government.

[Tambs2020]

I am assuming all the "Skimmers" Will have possibly lower bank balances if this going to be enforced ????

[whooshbang]

They're already 100 Billion THB in debt..... just take a look at the financials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways#Financials

 

Looks like TA are heading for state ownership!

 

 

[Fred white]

Typical Thai mentality I'm going bankrupt got no money but I want more stuff

[DrTuner]

Come to the trough, last servings, leuleu!

[Reigntax]

7 hours ago, 30la said:

Would you do a heart transplant to a person at the end of life ????

Yes. better than doing it at birth

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[travelling wilbury]

11 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Thailand is going to lose its GSP status benefits worldwide - not just with USA.  The Thai billionaires are just not going to be able to hide their wealth under the blanket of millions of poor Thais for much longer.  Sure they will buy a few planes and get this threat removed, but it is only a matter of time before USA decides to stop propping up an economy that is aligning itself more and more with China. 

 

In the past decades, the Thai Authorities were able to keep a balance between USA and China, and they did it very well.  These current Junta Authorities are unaware and/or unable to maintain that balance and have clearly shown their preference for China.  Meanwhile Vietnam is making more and more positive overtones to USA, and is getting into a more balanced realtiuonship.  They may even go further and start joining Taiwan and Japan and India and Sth Korea as SEAsian economies more aligned with USA than to China. And over time USA will support them more an more, and will support Thailand less and less.

 

Like many others in the World, the USA was waiting to see what happenned after the Junta went to the election.  What has resulted is in effect more of the same.  Going forward if Thailand does not realign itself and get back to a more balanced economic relationship with the two super powers, then USA will give more and more support to those that are either 'balanced' or are in fact 'aligned' - and less and less to those that are aligned with China. 

 

There was a recent Poll taken in Vietnam and it showed that USA was the most favoured country and that China was the least favoured.   That USA has recently supported Vietnam in its territotial 'battles' with China in the Oceans nearby, is just part of an ever increasing re-alignment of their economic relationships.  I believe that Thailand is going in the opposite driection and after USA gets a few Billion from the planes sales, the USA will resume its strategic economic re-alignments in SEAsia - and Thailand will lose out. 

 

Thailand has aligned itself with the Chinese tourism at the expense of tourism from other areas and is losing out because of that. Thailand is going to continue this approach under the Junta and it is going to lose out more and more going forward. 

   

You might as well face it  in our lifetime china will be the most powerful country on the planet so it is time to choose your partners carefully

china is far from perfect but look how far it has come in a very short time     infastructure is way anead of the west.  the people have a work ethic not seen anywhere else and   everything works  and makes money.    Can any other country say the same ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What's the official "brown envelope" cut of a 156 bn baht purchase?

 

Mercs and Rolls all around, please, along with new mia nois and a healthy amount of money sent abroad for any future rainy days.

 

[observer90210]

Does it makes sense to speed up purchase of new aircraft, for a company thats near to bankrupcy, no more passengers etc ?

 

Sure it does...the kickbacks and under table brown enveloppes are actually brown parcels; so large are the amounts of money involved with the attached bribery commission at all levels. And as this happens all over the world, one dare not imagine whats going on under the table in Thailand.

[AussieBob18]

53 minutes ago, travelling wilbury said:

You might as well face it  in our lifetime china will be the most powerful country on the planet so it is time to choose your partners carefully

china is far from perfect but look how far it has come in a very short time     infastructure is way anead of the west.  the people have a work ethic not seen anywhere else and   everything works  and makes money.    Can any other country say the same ?

I hear you, but I reckon they are destined to follow Japan and Russia and Sth Korea. Russia came a long way quickly after falling apart in 1989 and then stagnated when they reached a 'plateau'.  Japan did the same and it lasted for decades, so has Sth Korea over a shorter period, but eventually they both slowed too.  China growing at double digits GDP was unsustainable and they have become more and more expansionary through economic strategies in SEAsia while trying to achieve a reduced growth rate that is sustainable.  The USA is still their biggest market but policies like Trump's is reversing that growth model.  China's future lies in SEAsia - but it would be foolish for SEAsia countries to ignore USA.  China is big - but just like Japan before it, if you get too big and dont 'behave' when USA stamps on you the pain is big - they still aint got over the GFC.  As the old saying goes, “when America sneezes, the world catches a cold.”  Remember that a large chunk of China's exports are to USA and are also what USA used to make and export to the rest of the World but which China now does.  Yes they are going well and have done very well, but just like India found out, it is hard to grow and also look after over a Billion people who want a piece of it without causing 'downstream' issues (food, water and pollution being the biggies).  China has been addressing all those issues better than India ever did, but it still has a lot of social problems that will come back to haunt it eventually. Will it become dominant or will it peak and slow - like Japan, Sth Korea and Russia - my bet is on the latter.

[Sydebolle]

Saksiam Chidchob might want to note, that:
- Thai is majority owned by the Ministry of Finance which makes that Minister the drummer on that banana boat
- Thai has been struggling for years due to incompetence, corruption and nepotism

- Thai needs professional leadership which is not to be found in Thailand anymore after those, who really knew the job, were "ousted" for political reasons

So H.E. is possibly well advised to look elsewhere - Thai should be closed down for good and give way to a private undertaking of getting Phoenix out of the TG's ashes ......... 

[orchidfan]

Just look at the "Star Alliance" club of airlines....of which Thai is one.

Only a couple stick out as being noteworthy.....pick one and do a merger/takeover with one who knows how to run an airline...SG?

[Lacessit]

14 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

 

There was a recent Poll taken in Vietnam and it showed that USA was the most favoured country and that China was the least favoured.   That USA has recently supported Vietnam in its territotial 'battles' with China in the Oceans nearby, is just part of an ever increasing re-alignment of their economic relationships.  I believe that Thailand is going in the opposite driection and after USA gets a few Billion from the planes sales, the USA will resume its strategic economic re-alignments in SEAsia - and Thailand will lose out. 

 

 

   

Historically, the Chinese and Vietnamese have always been at loggerheads, whereas the Thais bend with the wind.

Nothing can be taken for granted with Trump as President. Love him or hate him, he is standing diplomacy and trade on their respective heads.

[bristolgeoff]

my friend booked a seat for the 29th with thai airways.cheap price too.don,t know about what happens if they close the shop,will the government let them do that.i imagine thai airways will continue if the airline goes that is bad  for thailand.

[emptypockets]

17 hours ago, 30la said:

Would you do a heart transplant to a person at the end of life ????

That's usually when a heart transplant is done. I do get your point though.

[emptypockets]

16 hours ago, new2here said:

I think the liquidation issue was somewhat overblown... if that were the case, I think we would have heard credible reports of lenders and banks (like credit card issuers) upping their reserve levels on future-date tickets.. 

 

Thai (as it is with any carrier) won’t be able to effectively “save” their way into a profit, so while I think they do need to take hard look at staff head count, work optimization and such, they will have to invest as well; with an eye towards revenue increases.

 

Thais 744s are on average 20yrs old with some dating back to 1993 and that’s got to be costly not only on the maintenance side, but hard on their operational reliability and of course fuel use... same can be said for a handful of their initial 772s and even some early 773s with many dating back to the mid- to late 90s...

 

So, I think they’ll have to invest (be that purchase or lease) in order to lower their ongoing maintenance costs, up their reliability rate and put out a more competitive hard (cabin) product when compared to their regional competitors.

 

Lowering their fares (which I cede aren’t always that competitive right now as it is) without also doing something to lower their associated cost structure just isn’t sustainable - so I think by doing a fleet renovation, while the initial investment will be high, I think the short term and mid-range cost savings will allow them to make fares more competitive.

 

I think the biggest change will have to be the hardest one - a corporate cultural shift... and for the most part that starts at the top.. this issue I think will be one that will take years to really change as those who may be more “entrenched” will either have to learn to adopt or leave ... and newer staff will have to be better trained from day 1.

 

Pardon my ignorance but what is a 744, 772 and a 773?

[GinBoy2]

9 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Pardon my ignorance but what is a 744, 772 and a 773?

This is shorthand for aircraft variants;

744 = B747-400

772 = B777-200

773 = B777-300

[emptypockets]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is shorthand for aircraft variants;

744 = B747-400

772 = B777-200

773 = B777-300

Thank you. I have learned something today.

Typing is such an effort. 555

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is shorthand for aircraft variants;

744 = B747-400

772 = B777-200

773 = B777-300

Learn something every day. I thought they were typos.

[steve187]

23 hours ago, 30la said:

Great! Thai is now bankrupt and you give it 156 Bn?
Is it part of the agreement with Trump? Probably Boing will be the planes to buy!

I think B787/9 , they don't seem to have any smaller capacity planes in the fleet, all 260+, etihad have put 5 brand new A350-1000 straight into storage, but that would be no good for Trump

[Blue bruce]

Great post by steven 100

[choudens]

Very nice this will be an opportunity to buy a lot of Rolls Royce engines like before at a cheap price!!!!

[whooshbang]

12 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

my friend booked a seat for the 29th with thai airways.cheap price too.don,t know about what happens if they close the shop,will the government let them do that.i imagine thai airways will continue if the airline goes that is bad  for thailand.

Almost changed my trip to Thailand this xmas and new year to Viet or Myanmar but I got friends going to LOS this year so I am about to book with TA.

Currently TA are beating EVA and I usually fly EVA because they are cheaper and arguably better airline...... strange how the TA prices have dropped below BA and EVA so I'm gonna take a punt and buy a ticket with TA.

 

As sydebolle already just mentioned the minister of finance owns 51% of Thai Airways so unlikely the authorities will let the flagship airline go under despite the year on year losses.

TA are also 22% stakeholders in Nok Air and outright own Smile Air.

 

Thai's recovery plans include teaming up with state enterprises Airports of Thailand PCL (AOT) and Krung Thai Bank (KTB) to help drive the carrier to profitability. (source wiki)

 

So fingers crossed you friend and I will dodge the bullet.

 

Cheers mate (fellow Bristolian)

 

Dave

[justin case]

you have to spend money .... to avoid bankruptcy ?

 

world premiere thai economics

[AussieBob18]

16 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

my friend booked a seat for the 29th with thai airways.cheap price too.don,t know about what happens if they close the shop,will the government let them do that.i imagine thai airways will continue if the airline goes that is bad  for thailand.

Thai is 51% owned by Government - it cant/wont go broke.  As majority owner the Govt must bail them out if they are sinking and they have the finances.  Rules of corporate law applicable to a publicly listed company on the stock exchange. Besides - if Thai closes then all the Govt and Elites will have to pay to fly anywhere - no more free tickets (subsidized by the ordinary flyers paying over odds pricing for the privelege). Then again Air Asia Thailand franchise is 'owned' by Thais mainly - maybe an option. 

[overherebc]

Can they update the planes to Auk' NZ?  Last time business class was the most uncomfortable flight I've had.

Seat wasn't 100% flatbed and you always felt you were sliding downhill.

[Thian]

On 10/29/2019 at 12:39 PM, Thomas J said:

Thai does not seem to understand that the equipment on virtually every airline is viewed identically.  Either a Boeing or Airbus

I don't think so....i prefer the A380 planes...and ONLY those because i fit better in the chair.

[new2here]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:50 PM, Thian said:

I don't think so....i prefer the A380 planes...and ONLY those because i fit better in the chair.

I think that’s what passengers REALLY notice and care about — the CABIN (ergo the seats and such) and not so much as to the manufacturer of the frame itself.

 

Thats why I think from the carriers perspective, they are more focused on the operational aspects such as capacity/range and the monetary side (CASM, etc)... but passengers issues can (IMHO) be addresses through whatever cabin supplier - and model from that suppler - they choose to install.... 

 

yes, there are some uniqueness issues between the various frames from Boeing and Airbus, but even with those issues, I really think it boils down the actual seat (which includes pitch), the carriers chosen config (like going with a 3-3-3 or tighter 3-4-3) and things like what IFE supplier/config.... 

[Thian]

1 hour ago, new2here said:

I think that’s what passengers REALLY notice and care about — the CABIN (ergo the seats and such) and not so much as to the manufacturer of the frame itself.

 

Thats why I think from the carriers perspective, they are more focused on the operational aspects such as capacity/range and the monetary side (CASM, etc)... but passengers issues can (IMHO) be addresses through whatever cabin supplier - and model from that suppler - they choose to install.... 

 

yes, there are some uniqueness issues between the various frames from Boeing and Airbus, but even with those issues, I really think it boils down the actual seat (which includes pitch), the carriers chosen config (like going with a 3-3-3 or tighter 3-4-3) and things like what IFE supplier/config.... 

What counts for me is:

 

- the seat (has to be wide and plenty leg space)

- the entertainment system

- the food on board

- the reliability of the company

- amount of babies on board