Gunmen kill Mormon family members in north Mexico

[snoop1130]

Gunmen kill Mormon family members in north Mexico

By Lizbeth Diaz

 

The burnt wreckage of a vehicle transporting a Mormon family living near the border with the U.S. is seen, after the family was caught in a crossfire between unknown gunmen from rival cartels, in Bavispe, Sonora, Mexico November 4, 2019, in this picture obtained from social media. Mandatory credit KENNETH MILLER/LAFE LANGFORD JR/via REUTERS

 

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Gunmen have killed up to nine members of a U.S. Mormon family, believed to be mainly children, in the latest massacre to afflict Mexico, family members said.

 

The victims belonged to the LeBaron family from a breakaway Mormon community that settled in the hills and plains of northern Mexico decades ago.

 

Two relatives Alex and Julian LeBaron told Reuters nine people had died, though a government source only confirmed five.

 

It was unclear what motivated the killings, which took place on Monday on a dirt road between Chihuahua and Sonora states, both bordering the United States.

 

A video posted on social media showed the charred and smoking remains of a vehicle riddled with bullet holes that was apparently carrying the victims when the attack happened.

 

“This is for the record,” says a male voice in an American accent, off camera, choking up with emotion.

 

“Nita and four of my grandchildren are burnt and shot up.”

 

Reuters could not independently verify the video.

 

Mexico has been hit by a wave of attacks in recent weeks, shocking even for a country inured to a decade of drug war violence. The most notable incident was a military-style cartel assault that forced the government to release a leader of the Sinaloa Cartel in October.

 

Given U.S. citizens were killed on Monday, the incident may increase pressure from Washington on President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador to rein in armed groups. There was no immediate indication of who was behind the attack.

 

“WE DON’T KNOW WHO DID IT”

 

Chihuahua and Sonora state governments issued a joint statement saying an investigation had been launched and that some people were presumed dead and others missing.

 

The statement noted additional federal and local security forces were being sent into the area near the border between the two Mexican states, but did not provide further details.

 

Julian LeBaron described the incident as a “massacre,” saying some family members were burnt alive. In a text message, he said other injured members of the family were being transported to Phoenix, Arizona for treatment.

 

He said four boys, two girls and three women were killed.

 

“We don’t know why, though they had received indirect threats. We don’t know who did it,” he said.

 

Several children who fled the attack were lost for hours in the countryside before being found, Julian LeBaron added.

 

“My cousin was murdered with her children in the truck,” Alex LeBaron said, adding he believed nine people died.

 

In 2010, two members of the Chihuahua Mormon community, including one from the LeBaron family, were killed in apparent revenge after security forces tracked drug gang members. The Mormons had suffered widespread kidnappings before that.

 

Mormons of Germanic origin settled in northern Mexico in the 1920s from the United States. The group broke away from the mainstream Mormon church when it abandoned polygamous marriages.

 

U.S. Ambassador to Mexico Christopher Landau, who traveled to Sonora earlier on Monday for unrelated work meetings, said he was following the incident closely.

 

“The security of our co-nationals is our great priority,” he said on Twitter.

 

The U.S. embassy in Mexico did not immediately respond to a request for more information after hours.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-11-05

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[pegman]

Beyond tragic

[Puchaiyank]

Note to self: " Mark Mexico off your bucket list".   ????

[Crazy Alex]

Mexico is on its way to becoming a narco state. Given how much much they rely on tourism for their income, they're on very shaky ground.

 

This shooting is despicable and the perps are savages.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

Note to self: " Mark Mexico off your bucket list".   ????

That's not a rational reaction to this. Mexico is a big country. The areas that most tourists would go are not the same as the places dominated by the cartels.

[sirineou]

Just now, Crazy Alex said:

Mexico is on its way to becoming a narco state. Given how much much they rely on tourism for their income, they're on very shaky ground.

 

This shooting is despicable and the perps are savages.

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

[elliss]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

 

 Wow , good  story , thank you ..

[emptypockets]

Seems like the Mormans stuck there noses in where it wasn't wanted, and paid the price. Don't <deleted> with the cartel.

 

I have similar feelings about the Jehovahs Witnesses

[bendejo]

Mexico is an example of how corruption can lead to an overall lawlessness where the bad guys become the good guys.  

People from that area tell me that El Chapo, demon villain in the press, was considered a hero because what little he did for the locals (he created jobs, didn't he?) was a lot more than what the officials did for them.  If you crossed him, or got in the way of the gunfire like these poor souls did, that's another story.

It's like a cross between The Wild Bunch and a Mad Max movie.

 

 

 

[sirineou]

32 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Seems like the Mormans stuck there noses in where it wasn't wanted, and paid the price. Don't F@@K with the cartel.

 

I have similar feelings about the Jehovahs Witnesses

I am an Atheist.

Years ago I had a good friend and coworker  who was Jehovah Witness , He was a very nice man.

Never discussed his religion with any of as. 

  One time His Jehovah Witness group had organised an ocean cruise to Bermuda,

 I had spend some time in Bermuda in my youth and he knew about it so he invited as , it was a good deal and me and my then wife accepted , thinking that if it became a hustle we would keep to ourselves.

We had a great time, nicest bunch of people you ever want to meet. religion never came up.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

Taxco is a large town not a village. Yes, I've been there. It's quite charming. Silver for days.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Taxco is a large town not a village. Yes, I've been there. It's quite charming. 

You are right , I would say about 40-50k people , beautiful place, crawling up a mountain side,. I personally never had a problem . but we knew people that had and were wondering when and if  it would be our turn. 

We always bought samples , and mostly had them shipped back, but from our transactions people knew . or thought we had money , which made as potential targets, Perhaps paranoid, but not worth the danger. 

The heart of the town was pretty cosmopolitan , with restaurants, small boutique style  hotels, and ofcourse wholesale silver shops.  As you said, very charming, But if you wandered away from the central area, as we once did you saw some pretty seedy  characters.

  Do you remember the home made cars? , a car frame with with four wheels  engine a couple of seats  and a piece of , what looked like, hand bend tin over the engine. LOL 

 I had a bunch of pictures but I cant find them, they might be in my old Laptop. This whole thing was pre-Cloud, when I have a chance I will fire up that computer and look.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I am an Atheist.

Years ago I had a good friend and coworker  who was Jehovah Witness , He was a very nice man.

Never discussed his religion with any of as. 

  One time His Jehovah Witness group had organised an ocean cruise to Bermuda,

 I had spend some time in Bermuda in my youth and he knew about it so he invited as , it was a good deal and me and my then wife accepted , thinking that if it became a hustle we would keep to ourselves.

We had a great time, nicest bunch of people you ever want to meet. religion never came up.

 

I also had some JoVo workmates. Nice people but the biggest bunch of phonies. Did not celebrate Christmas but always found some way to have a party around the same time. Kids never had birthday parties as such, but miraculously something happened to be celebrated about the same time. Another farming mate had JoVo neighbours...no Tv etc.....where were his kids....over at the mates place at every opportunity even when my mates kids were playing outside!

Pretty harmless stuff but cost a friends marriage when they brain washed her.

[sirineou]

19 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

I also had some JoVo workmates. Nice people but the biggest bunch of phonies. Did not celebrate Christmas but always found some way to have a party around the same time. Kids never had birthday parties as such, but miraculously something happened to be celebrated about the same time. Another farming mate had JoVo neighbours...no Tv etc.....where were his kids....over at the mates place at every opportunity even when my mates kids were playing outside!

Pretty harmless stuff but cost a friends marriage when they brain washed her.

I totally disagree with all of the "JoVo"  religious concepts, I actually find them redicoulose" But hey what ever rocks your boat as long as it does not rock mine. 

But let's not forget that they are human and as such governed with the same emotional dynamics,  that we are all governed by. Christians can be pretty phony, Muslims can be phony, Buddhists can, so why not Jehovah Witneses. My only point was that , in my limited interaction, I found them to be very nice people and not at all the caricature they are portrayed be.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by sirineou

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.  

[Somtamnication]

It has been a narco state since Kiki's death. What happened here is so very tragic. Loss for words.

[Tug]

Deeply saddening but this kind of lawless is sadly happening there every day the good hardworking people and Mexico herself deserve so much better

[Crazy Alex]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

Is not on its way , it is. IMO Partly because if its geographical position , as a gateway to the US from the south.

The main consumer.

I used to import silver jewelry from a village named Taxco in Mexico, we would fly into Mexico city . once a year, some times more, then take a 2:30 hr ride through the mountains to Taxco meet with the artizans inspect designs , choose stones, set prices.  After hearing horror stories of abductions and murders we stopped doing that, We did what business we could at trade shows, and over the internet, and searched for alternate sources,

That's how I ended up  in Thailand.

 Mexico is a very dangerous place if you leave the beaten path.  

Thanks for the info, you're right. I believe this narco state status is at least in part a result of the US waging war on the cartels in Colombia. The net result has been we've just moved the violence closer to home. That's a bit of a tangent, but thought I'd throw it in there anyway.

 

Even the beaten path is getting dangerous. There were 540 murders in Cancun in 2018.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6538571/Cancun-sees-record-540-murders-2018.html

[Tayaout]

 

[neeray]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's not a rational reaction to this. Mexico is a big country. The areas that most tourists would go are not the same as the places dominated by the cartels.

It is very sad to read of events like this. It would seem to me that murdering the women and children constitutes crossing the line.

 

While I realize Mexico is a big country and some areas are more dangerous than others, from what I read, crime and murder seems to happen almost everywhere in Mexico, of course, some places more than others.

It surprises me to no end when I see Mexico suggested as an alternative destination to Thailand for long term stayers.

Stories like this execution, stories of heads and bodies hanging from overpasses and murders in Cancun are alarming. I'll take my chances with Thailand road carnage any day, and for the rest of my days!

[Puchaiyank]

24 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

 

This video was very informative...Thanks!

[EVENKEEL]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's not a rational reaction to this. Mexico is a big country. The areas that most tourists would go are not the same as the places dominated by the cartels.

I believe this happened 60 mi south of the border, not exactly far from tourists.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, neeray said:

It is very sad to read of events like this. It would seem to me that murdering the women and children constitutes crossing the line.

 

While I realize Mexico is a big country and some areas are more dangerous than others, from what I read, crime and murder seems to happen almost everywhere in Mexico, of course, some places more than others.

It surprises me to no end when I see Mexico suggested as an alternative destination to Thailand for long term stayers.

Stories like this execution, stories of heads and bodies hanging from overpasses and murders in Cancun are alarming. I'll take my chances with Thailand road carnage any day, and for the rest of my days!

Put this another way. Most tourism and expatriation including seasonal sunbirds comes from the USA. 

 

The USA "is a big country and some areas are more dangerous than others, from what I read, crime and murder seems to happen almost everywhere in" the USA, "of course, some places more than others." 

 

Also in the USA you have both random and terror based mass shootings such as Las Vegas.

 

So maybe fear overreactions to the situation in Mexico are related to where you come from. 

 

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Put this another way. Most tourism and expatriation including seasonal sunbirds comes from the USA. 

 

The USA "is a big country and some areas are more dangerous than others, from what I read, crime and murder seems to happen almost everywhere in" the USA, "of course, some places more than others." 

 

Also in the USA you have both random and terror based mass shootings such as Las Vegas.

 

So maybe fear overreactions to the situation in Mexico are related to where you come from. 

 

I think part of the problem is that people expect to be safe when they go on vacation. Of course, we know that really isn't true. There is always danger. But when you have tourists being raped, dozens of bodies being uncovered in a tourist town like Guadalajara and 540 murders in Cancun in Mexico, many people who think of vacationing in Mexico will think twice. It appears to me the Mexican government is losing control. One could say choosing not to go there is an overreaction. One could also say why go there when there other places to go where drug cartel violence isn't as big an issue if an issue at all?

[olfu]

I don't know better but Google claim there are over 1 million retired Americans in Mexico.

[impulse]

This may not have been a random attack on a bunch of tourists.  There are some indications that the Mormons were attacked in a case of mistaken identity, but it's way early in the investigation...  They may have been targeted for exactly who they were.  

 

Tragic in any case, with innocent kids and women being murdered.

 

 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, olfu said:

I don't know better but Google claim there are over 1 million retired Americans in Mexico.

I've heard estimates between one and two million Americans there. Of course it's a very hard number to get at as how do you define "living" there and of course a significant percentage have never applied for any kind of residence visa. Many indeed are staying illegally and the information that I have is that Mexico is very lax on illegal alien Americans that are there mostly to spend their money helping the local economy (very enlightened of them). Working remotely is popular, such as teaching Chinese students online. Then there is the portion that are dual American and Mexican citizens. In any case, this very long standing Mormon enclave in Northern Mexico is definitely a permanent settlement of dual citizens and I would be surprised (but not shocked) if they leave.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[Tayaout]

I travelled a lot along the west coast of Mexico when the cartel war started in the early 2000. Some place are so dangerous the Mexican themselves are scared to go there (Tijuana, Mexico city, etc).

 

I have a friend expat that live in Mexico city since a couple years and he had a gun pointed to his face during a bar dispute.

 

On the other hand there is many quiet and paradisiac small town like San Blas where I left my tent and gears without surveillance and there was no issue. My friend wanted to buy marijuana and they refused to sell any, the kids would give it for free. I met many snowbird that went there every winter since the sixties. 

[EVENKEEL]

Women and kids were killed and burned, babies burnt alive. Nothing more to say.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/garystoller/2018/02/21/mexico-where-more-americans-are-murdered-than-in-all-other-countries-combined/

Edited November 6, 2019 by EVENKEEL

[canthai55]

Yet more victims of the "War on Drugs"

When will they ever learn ? Answer - never. Too much $$$ to be made by law enforcement, builders of prisons, the criminal justice system

There is None So Blind as Those Who Will Not See