My First Experience Renting A Condo In Bangkok

[4675636b596f75]

3 hours ago, pookondee said:

i concede it is a slightly different scenario having an agent as a go-between

I deal with the owner.  The agent was for renting the condo.

3 hours ago, pookondee said:

I never used agents myself, as personally i believe they get paid to much commission for what they actually do, but that is another argument for another day.

I think we should make that day today.

The agent was professional and very hard working.  She earned her commission.  

 

3 hours ago, pookondee said:

She has also said to keep the dockets for replacement bum-guns, even light bulbs and she would reimburse but im not that petty.

On another board, geared toward whoring around in Thailand, they would call you a lame dupe overypayer, jacking up the price for the rest of us.

 

You claim you aren't petty?  It's not petty to be reimbursed for what is out of pocket and clearly the responsibility of the owner.

 

Stop making excuses.

3 hours ago, pookondee said:

Don't think it would be like that if i demanded everything i was "contractually"

You don't honor your contracts?  Don't you live "up to" your end of the bargain?

[Monomial]

Question for the OP.

 

Was the contract he signed in English or Thai?  If it was an English contract, you can be almost certain the owner didn't read it and/or understand it. In that case, it is completely understandable she would fall back to what typically happens in Thai rentals. This means that the owner would be responsible for a major repair, such as needing to completely replace an appliance, but small maintainence is typically paid directly by the tennant.  You aren't going to call the owner to replace a lightbulb, are you? So where do you draw the line?

 

There is no hard and fast rule, just kind of a general feeling by Thais about an amount that is fair. When I rented, I always spoke with the owner up front and in person about the cutoff for repairs when he would be responsible and when I would be responsible. Usually we settled on 2000 baht, but this was years ago. Contracts don't mean much in Thailand. They are hard to enforce, so you are better off just having a good relationship with the owner and very clear expectations going in.

 

Replacing an air conditioner would usually be the responsibility of the landlord. Cleaning and air conditioner would usually be the responsibility of the tennant, and you should always check for things like leaky pipes and dirty air conditioners when you move in.  If you don't, you set yourself up for conflicts over whose responsibility it is to fix them, as you have found out.

 

I would say to the OP, chalk this up to the costs of education about living and renting in Thailand. In the future, you won't make the same mistake. Don't rely on the vagaries of a written contract that may never be read. Talk to the landlord, establish a relationship and understand his process.  Choosing the right landlord is just as important as choosing the right apartment.

 

[smutcakes]

10 hours ago, Monomial said:

Question for the OP.

 

Was the contract he signed in English or Thai?  If it was an English contract, you can be almost certain the owner didn't read it and/or understand it. In that case, it is completely understandable she would fall back to what typically happens in Thai rentals. This means that the owner would be responsible for a major repair, such as needing to completely replace an appliance, but small maintainence is typically paid directly by the tennant.  You aren't going to call the owner to replace a lightbulb, are you? So where do you draw the line?

 

There is no hard and fast rule, just kind of a general feeling by Thais about an amount that is fair. When I rented, I always spoke with the owner up front and in person about the cutoff for repairs when he would be responsible and when I would be responsible. Usually we settled on 2000 baht, but this was years ago. Contracts don't mean much in Thailand. They are hard to enforce, so you are better off just having a good relationship with the owner and very clear expectations going in.

 

Replacing an air conditioner would usually be the responsibility of the landlord. Cleaning and air conditioner would usually be the responsibility of the tennant, and you should always check for things like leaky pipes and dirty air conditioners when you move in.  If you don't, you set yourself up for conflicts over whose responsibility it is to fix them, as you have found out.

 

I would say to the OP, chalk this up to the costs of education about living and renting in Thailand. In the future, you won't make the same mistake. Don't rely on the vagaries of a written contract that may never be read. Talk to the landlord, establish a relationship and understand his process.  Choosing the right landlord is just as important as choosing the right apartment.

 

In most contracts i have seen there is a figure say any repairs over say 2,000 THB the landlord will be responsible. I think this is fair, especially if both the landlord and tenant behave like responsible adults.

[Chazar]

On 11/12/2019 at 9:28 AM, 4675636b596f75 said:

Stop looking to these horrible people here for advice. Americans understand exceptionalism and they seem to be the only ones to provide good counsel.  

 

So here is some advice from an American exceptionalist:

 

Never rent old condos.  New condos have warranties on all appliances.  I'm renting from a first time owner, he's an engineer working for one of the BTS lines and he owns only this condo.

 

I am his second tenant.  After I moved in having assumed he cleaned the air conditioners I found that he had not.  Our lease says I am responsible for cleaning them once a year.  He paid my handyman 1500b to clean all three.  The filters were caked with dust and as you can see the fins were filthy.   These are Daikin inverters.  I run three aircons almost 24/7 and my electric bill has never topped 3000 baht.  

 

I signed a 2 year lease. My rent is 12,000b a month for a 45 sqm condo with swimming pools and a gym.  Next year my lease goes down to 11,000b a month.

 

What?  Unheard of! I can hear the scoffing.  Next year I will pay 11,000 instead of 12,000.  Why?

 

He will use the 2nd month security deposit to offset the rent in the 2nd year.  At the end, he will only hold one month deposit.  

 

He used an agent.  The agent gets paid one full month rent at signing.  They get 1.5 x rent if the signing is for 2 years.

 

Your owner is stupid.  We have lots of stupid Thais here in Thailand and sometimes they rent condos stupidly.  

 

She breached your contract.  Stop paying her rent, and find another place to live.  Let her know she is in violation of the agreement.  

 

I wrote the rental agreement and the agent translated it into Thai.  The English version is the controlling agreement.  

 

Everything was agreed to at signing.  

 

Stop listening to ignorant people here.

 

Stop listening to Ignorant Thai owners.  They know nothing. 

 

Read the pdf I just attached.

 

And stop listening to the money shamers who tell you that you should take responsibility for the owner's inability to perform on the lease.  

 

It's a legal document.  It's probably a disaster, like the condo, but next time you'll be careful what you sign. 

 

Make sure you notify her properly that she breached your agreement, then do what you want.

Feb_18_Residential_Building_Leasing_Business_Subject_to_Contract_Controls_0.pdf 608.66 kB · 2 downloads

I  hope he covered  all those nasty exposed wires and stuff to avoid  getting water into them?

[Chazar]

12 hours ago, Monomial said:

You aren't going to call the owner to replace a lightbulb, are you?

youd  be surprised what some dumb tenants do!!

[4675636b596f75]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

In most contracts i have seen there is a figure say any repairs over say 2,000 THB the landlord will be responsible. I think this is fair, especially if both the landlord and tenant behave like responsible adults.

Nonsense.  I should repair his 10 year old refrigerator that I am paying for in my rent?  I don't think so.  

 

Do explain though, how this is fair to the tenant who moves into a condo that should have everything working perfectly.  

 

Oh little Jenny, I'm so sorry but Mr. Pitchatakeyoubathaporn can only do one thing today and it will be 1999 baht.  Tomorrow he will come and clean the other 2 aircons and it will be 1998 baht.  

 

You pay for a functional condo.  The Aircon isn't yours, neither is the refrigerator.  The lease names these items as what you are renting.  You are renting their use already and wear and tear is included. 

 

Don't make the Thai Landlords angry.  Reminds me of my friend Colin Ferguson who wrote a few books in America, White Girl Bleed a lot, and Don't make the Black Kids angry.

 

Don't make the Thais Angry.

[4675636b596f75]

2 hours ago, Chazar said:

I  hope he covered  all those nasty exposed wires and stuff to avoid  getting water into them?

You don't think he cleaned it with high pressure water without turning off the electricity to the unit, do you?

[4675636b596f75]

14 hours ago, Monomial said:

Choosing the right landlord is just as important as choosing the right apartment.

And the landlord choosing the right tenant is equally important.  

 

Contract are too keep everyone honest and lay out responsibilities.

 

 

[smutcakes]

15 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

Nonsense.  I should repair his 10 year old refrigerator that I am paying for in my rent?  I don't think so.  

 

Do explain though, how this is fair to the tenant who moves into a condo that should have everything working perfectly.  

 

Oh little Jenny, I'm so sorry but Mr. Pitchatakeyoubathaporn can only do one thing today and it will be 1999 baht.  Tomorrow he will come and clean the other 2 aircons and it will be 1998 baht.  

 

You pay for a functional condo.  The Aircon isn't yours, neither is the refrigerator.  The lease names these items as what you are renting.  You are renting their use already and wear and tear is included. 

 

Don't make the Thai Landlords angry.  Reminds me of my friend Colin Ferguson who wrote a few books in America, White Girl Bleed a lot, and Don't make the Black Kids angry.

 

Don't make the Thais Angry.

To be fair i was referring more to breakages, bum gun, light bulbs everyday things that go wrong more than defectice fridges and issues like that if it makes any difference. 

 

Personally i am happy to just do it and pay for it myself rather than getting the landlord to do it unless its something major.

[4675636b596f75]

13 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

To be fair i was referring more to breakages, bum gun, light bulbs everyday things that go wrong more than defectice fridges and issues like that if it makes any difference. 

 

Personally i am happy to just do it and pay for it myself rather than getting the landlord to do it unless its something major.

My two year old condo had filthy air conditioners.  The Thai owner, a nice man of 28, and as green as they come, never looked.  He was led through the process by the agent he hired and paid.  She was teaching him.  She was also my age, both of us were double his age.  Did I say he was green?  

 

It's not a bad thing that he was green, it just is what it is.  He doesn't know what he doesn't know.  

 

I spent a lot of time, many hours, rewriting the lease to my satisfaction.  I am the customer.  This is a renter's market, not a seller's market.  He wanted initially 15,000 bath a month, it ended up at 12,000b and he bought a new Samsung Front Loader.  I agree to take care of his condo as if it were mine.  I agree to fix things I break.  If I wash bricks in his new Samsung I expect I'll have to fix it.  

 

I'm in my late fifties with an almost teenage son.  I don't want to move around often.  I have things to do.

 

He got a two year lease and he will never have to wonder where the rent is, it's on autopay at my bank.  

 

I have many outs in the lease.  If the condo association stops providing swimming pools or neglects them, I am gone, and the same with the gym.  I am paying for that as well because the condo association fees are included in my rent.

 

I got a good landlord who needs to learn.  When he's finished with me he will be a gem among those in the rough because he will understand how we foreigners do business.  Many of these landlords only want foreign renters.  If that's what you want, then learn how to interact. 

 

It's that simple.

 

My relationship with the condo owner is perfect.  I pay the rent, and the takes care of the things he is responsible for.

 

He can't shutoff my electric or water because it is explicitly forbidden in the lease.  He has remedies and so do I.  

 

My lease is the gold-standard.  I'll sell it to you for a profit.

 

 

[smutcakes]

23 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

My two year old condo had filthy air conditioners.  The Thai owner, a nice man of 28, and as green as they come, never looked.  He was led through the process by the agent he hired and paid.  She was teaching him.  She was also my age, both of us were double his age.  Did I say he was green?  

 

It's not a bad thing that he was green, it just is what it is.  He doesn't know what he doesn't know.  

 

I spent a lot of time, many hours, rewriting the lease to my satisfaction.  I am the customer.  This is a renter's market, not a seller's market.  He wanted initially 15,000 bath a month, it ended up at 12,000b and he bought a new Samsung Front Loader.  I agree to take care of his condo as if it were mine.  I agree to fix things I break.  If I wash bricks in his new Samsung I expect I'll have to fix it.  

 

I'm in my late fifties with an almost teenage son.  I don't want to move around often.  I have things to do.

 

He got a two year lease and he will never have to wonder where the rent is, it's on autopay at my bank.  

 

I have many outs in the lease.  If the condo association stops providing swimming pools or neglects them, I am gone, and the same with the gym.  I am paying for that as well because the condo association fees are included in my rent.

 

I got a good landlord who needs to learn.  When he's finished with me he will be a gem among those in the rough because he will understand how we foreigners do business.  Many of these landlords only want foreign renters.  If that's what you want, then learn how to interact. 

 

It's that simple.

 

My relationship with the condo owner is perfect.  I pay the rent, and the takes care of the things he is responsible for.

 

He can't shutoff my electric or water because it is explicitly forbidden in the lease.  He has remedies and so do I.  

 

My lease is the gold-standard.  I'll sell it to you for a profit.

 

 

You sound like a relentless know it all bore. I have leased here for 10 years in 3 places and never had a problem. (As have 100k of others)

 

Unless you chill out and get of your high horse you will probably either be home or 6 foot under in a year through stress related heart attack.

 

I am sure your lease is very thourough, you did well to find a landlord to accept it, and as you say its a renters market so perhaps he was desperate to get an income if he needed to pay off a mortgage. 

 

Personally i dont need a 'gold standard' lease, a simple one is adequate enough for me and never had an issue. (I own rather than rent now). Its not rocket science to insert lots of tenant freindly clauses in a lease but quite frankly most people hae better things to do with their time than haggling over the tiny detail of a lease.

 

You are not the only person around who could amend a lease contract if people felt inclined.

 

[spidermike007]

Long ago I had a landlord who was a real cheap charlie. So, I learned that most repairs were best, if I took care of them myself. 500 baht to clean an AC. 400 baht for a plumbing repair. I would only bother him if it was a big repair. The relationship remained very harmonious, and it was well worth the lack of aggravation and hostility. 

[4675636b596f75]

14 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

You sound like a relentless know it all bore. I have leased here for 10 years in 3 places and never had a problem

I don't appreciate you caricature of me as a relentless bore. 

 

To answer your insulting lead up and statement, I have no problems either.  So what's your point?

 

From reading what you wrote, it would seem, that you didn't do what I do, possibly feel inadequate about it, and now wish to project your failure upon me.  

 

We aren't buying it, so peddle it elsewhere.

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

Long ago I had a landlord who was a real cheap charlie. So, I learned that most repairs were best, if I took care of them myself. 500 baht to clean an AC. 400 baht for a plumbing repair. I would only bother him if it was a big repair. The relationship remained very harmonious, and it was well worth the lack of aggravation and hostility. 

It's all different, isn't it? Your landlord isn't my landlord.  Mine wants to learn to do business in the big boy world.  

[smutcakes]

5 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

I don't appreciate you caricature of me as a relentless bore. 

 

To answer your insulting lead up and statement, I have no problems either.  So what's your point?

 

From reading what you wrote, it would seem, that you didn't do what I do, possibly feel inadequate about it, and now wish to project your failure upon me.  

 

We aren't buying it, so peddle it elsewhere.

Leasing for 10 years with no issues and now owning. Yeah really been burnt with non gold standard lease.

 

Inadequate over a lease for a 11,000 THB a month condo....yeah you really got me. 

 

No one likes a know it all.

[Jai Dee]

Enough of the personal attacks (flames) and petty bickering thanks.

[samsensam]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:32 AM, Pilotman said:

You made a fundamental error, in getting an agent to do the work you should have done yourself.  Agents work for their own interests and profit, and those of their associates, and not for the client who is paying them.  Good luck. and next time, I suggest that you do your own leg work and stop getting involved with rip off agents. You are on a hiding to nothing with complaints.  Put it down to a Thai experience, we have all been there 

 

you cant beat doing it yourself, getting out there and having a look around - yes it can be hard work but you learn so much and you can easily stay in a hotel while you do your research. my condo building is extremely well managed, all repairs fixed, anyone making any noise or causing problems is asked to leave; thai or foreigner. i have left and returned several times - due to contract work commitments abroad - always the deposit is returned without any issue.

 

go to condo building, have a look, speak to other people living there, see if it has a facebook page or other social media presence - it's easy to get information. as at home, unless you can trust someone dont rely on information from those who will gain from giving you information!

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, samsensam said:

 

you cant beat doing it yourself, getting out there and having a look around - yes it can be hard work but you learn so much and you can easily stay in a hotel while you do your research. my condo building is extremely well managed, all repairs fixed, anyone making any noise or causing problems is asked to leave; thai or foreigner. i have left and returned several times - due to contract work commitments abroad - always the deposit is returned without any issue.

 

go to condo building, have a look, speak to other people living there, see if it has a facebook page or other social media presence - it's easy to get information. as at home, unless you can trust someone dont rely on information from those who will gain from giving you information!

Agreed.  I spent a week finding a place to live. I like where I live now, my rent is less for a better condo, my electric bill is half of what it was for a condo full of old appliances, and the management here is excellent compared to the people who ought to be jailed, who are still mismanaging my previous abode.  

 

Considering I spent part of 1 week for what will be ultimately 104 weeks of my life, the time investment was well worth it.  

[CNXexpat]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:13 PM, BritManToo said:

Don't blame her, you sound like the tenant from hell.

Cleaning air-con units, 200bht/unit, putting a screw in the wall, no cost apart from the screwdriver.

 

Thai landlords don't repair anything, if the tenant can't stand the condition of the property any longer they move out, and the landlord repairs everything for the next tenant.

It seems you are the perfect customer/tenant. If you buy something with a fixed price and at the end the price becomes higher, I guess you pay to be not a customer from hell. Why signing generally a contract if one side doesn´t fulfill it?

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, CNXexpat said:

It seems you are the perfect customer/tenant. If you buy something with a fixed price and at the end the price becomes higher, I guess you pay to be not a customer from hell. Why signing generally a contract if one side doesn´t fulfill it?

It all boils down to the Thai apologist who faults you for sticking to the agreement.  

 

Don't make the Thai's angry!

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

It's all different, isn't it? Your landlord isn't my landlord.  Mine wants to learn to do business in the big boy world.  

Nice to see that you are open minded and capable of dealing with positive suggestions. 

[4675636b596f75]

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Nice to see that you are open minded and capable of dealing with positive suggestions. 

It is easy, when one is reasonable in the first place.

[naboo]

I have a great landlord. Thai lady, married to an American, speaks fluent English, always keen to please, interested in the condo block - on the committee - and carries out repairs to a high standard. There was no agent in the deal, though I think they paid to advertise on HipFlat. I probably pay about 10% too much in rent, but I had a budget, the condo was in budget and met my requirements.

 

Since I've moved in ( a year ago) we've had issues with the contract three times where the landlord had to pay. I'm not talking small amounts, I'm guessing she's paid out about 25% of the rent I've given her in repairs. This month, I got a discount on the rent as the repairs caused me inconvenience and left the condo full of dust and stinking of paint for a couple of days. I didn't ask for a discount, she offered. Of course, I accepted without hesitation, but she'd read the situation well, I was actually getting a bit fed up with it all and had to be convinced by my wife to actually stump up the cash for the rent the month previous. In the end, October rent only got paid because I'm not short of cash and didn't want the aggravation. But I'm still a happy tenant.

 

Given the huge oversupply of condos for rent in Bangkok, I don't understand why any landlord wouldn't want to keep tenants happy. But then, nothing surprises nowadays.

[4675636b596f75]

My landlord sent me a postcard from Chiang Mai.  

 

I haven't received a postcard from anyone in over a decade.

[DannyCarlton]

18 hours ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

It is easy, when one is reasonable in the first place.

Complete nonsense. You have had a positive experience with one Thai landlord. It's atypical.

 

I have always been reasonable with my landlords. The second one became a personal friend. Still tried to screw me when I handed my notice in, despite the fact that, in trying to be helpful, I gave him almost 4 months notice and agreed to show prospctive renters/buyers round the property.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

My landlord sent me a postcard from Chiang Mai.  

 

I haven't received a postcard from anyone in over a decade.

Who sends postcards nowadays? 

[smutcakes]

18 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Complete nonsense. You have had a positive experience with one Thai landlord. It's atypical.

 

I have always been reasonable with my landlords. The second one became a personal friend. Still tried to screw me when I handed my notice in, despite the fact that, in trying to be helpful, I gave him almost 4 months notice and agreed to show prospctive renters/buyers round the property.

How did he try and screw you?

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

How did he try and screw you?

Refused to refund my 2 months deposit.

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Refused to refund my 2 months deposit.

I presume you were breaking your contract by leaving before the end of the agreed term? In which case why are they screwing you? 

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

I presume you were breaking your contract by leaving before the end of the agreed term? In which case why are they screwing you? 

Why would you presume that? Because you are a rampant Thai apologist? You got that wrong, my landlord was a Brit!