Anti-buddhist Driving

[gbt71fa]

I understand that the Majority of Thai People are very Bhuddist but I think that goes out the windown when they get behind the steering wheel of a car. They are overly aggressive, take dangerous chances (even if they have twenty people piled in the back of the truck) and don't understand how to use their mirrors. My lastest example was when a truck tailgated me ( he had to be doing at least 140km/h) because I wasn't going fast enough or moved out of the way fast enough for him. He finally got around and skidded against my car. It turned out that he lived in the same little village complex that I did. We both got out and I pointed at my car to show him what he was done. I could then tell by his mannerisms and then by his breath that he had been drinking whiskey. I also saw that he had his wife and a little baby in the car. I began to insult him in the best Thai that I could for what he had done and that he was endangering his family. He proceed to gait up to me and place his hands on my shoulders...which is where I went off and proceed to choke the life out of him and throw him around. It took my wife's uncle and two other thais to pull me off him. I have lost a girlfriend and a good buddy to drunk drivers and the fact that this one did is so nonchalantly like (which is how drunkiness is viewed in this country, it seems) made my little demon come to forfront. I also called the police twice but they never showed up. That is the other thing: we all know that the police department is corrupt, just think of the money they could rake in if they tried to actually enforce traffic laws...stop speeders, traffic violations (not including having your helmet on when riding your bad motor scooter), ect. Are they just to lazy to work on being really corrupt? I was so made that this guy could have hurt my wife, did whack my car (have insurance for that) and could have killed his family that I just wanted to choke the life out of him. Doesn't Bhuddism also apply to driving? They wouldn't need all that Bhuddist iconology in their cars if they drive sensibly. Maybe one problem is the perception of driving. In the west, driving is a privledged that is earned through testing or classwork and can be taken away from you any time if you get stupid. Here, you can get a license to drive in hour, or so I have been told. I'm sorry to say that I really wanted to kill that guy for a few seconds...smelling that cheap whiskey on his breath.

[cdnvic]

I began to insult him in the best Thai that I could for what he had done and that he was endangering his family. He proceed to gait up to me and place his hands on my shoulders...which is where I went off and proceed to choke the life out of him and throw him around.

I can totally sympathise with you and have on occasion let my temper slip while on the road. However, as my wife pointed out to me, if the police arrive and you are getting violent with a local, any chance of them treating the situation fairly, which is slanted against you in the first place, goes out the window and you could find yourself in deep trouble if not blamed for the accident itself.

Your anger is justified, but your response, though understandable, makes your situation much worse.

[dave111223]

On the night before my wedding we hired a song-tel (pickup truck with seats) to bring my family and some of my wife's family out to a seafood restaurant by the beach.

About half way there we started turning around and my father in law (who was sitting upfront with the driver) said "Maybe we should just go back and get some food near the hotel".

We didn't understand why and were a bit put out seeing as we were all looking forward to this seafood place. So we all said "no, no let's keep going". At which point the truck pulled over and there was thai discussion going on.

Turns out the driver was total piss drunk and could hardly walk. My family were horrified that this bloke had turned up drunk to drive around a large group of people in his truck.

We had to flag down another song-tel in order to get the restaurant.

The drunk guy left with half of the agreed price...

[PhilHarries]

Drinking per se is against the Lord Buddha's teachings so I think you'll find many Thais are Buddhist as it suits them. All the Buddha images in the car/cab are there to provide good luck for the driver and his family. This is what they seem to rely on when driving and if they have an accident then it was meant to be.

As cdnvic says, whilst your anger was/is understandable sometimes you just have to reign it in. As for the police, you don't say what time of day it was, they were quite likely p1ssing it up back at the station.

I'm sure it was a horrendous experience for you and your passengers but unfortunately the sort of thing that occurs all too often. Everyone, including the majority of the Thais, knows what needs to be done but there seems to be an unbelievable amount of inertia in implementing the necessary changes.

Take Songkhran. Every year over the festival period the road death toll reaches around five, yes 5, an hour. Every year it is announced the police are having a crackdown on drunken driving. Every year nothing changes. One year I read that the government minister, or whoever, said that the problem with the death toll was that the holiday was too long. It's okay to lose 5 an hour over four days but not six, the mentality is incomprehensible.

[Etrigan]

Another example of the decline of Thailand's driving culture.

[cdnvic]

Another example of the decline of Thailand's driving culture.

There was a high point?

[CymruAmByth]

One year I read that the government minister, or whoever, said that the problem with the death toll was that the holiday was too long. It's okay to lose 5 an hour over four days but not six, the mentality is incomprehensible.

This may have been the same Minister that said "I blame the banks and lending institutions for the high death toll on motor cycles".

His reasoning was that people could borrow money too easily, therefore there were more of them on the road, therefore that is why more of them got injured or killed.

This is a totally 'logic free zone' sometimes! Amazing Thailand!

[gbt71fa]

[ Your anger is justified, but your response, though understandable, makes your situation much worse.

You are right of course and it would be much worst if the Thai boys in brown would have tried to take me in. Sometimes, this darn country just doesn't make sense. They have all this potential and just seem to waste it on the most idiotic of things. There are so many things they could fix buy don't because they seem to leave it in the hands of fate. Maybe I am too westernized to understand their metality. My wife is getting a little tired of it and she knows that Thailand is changing somehow and not necessarily for the better. It is the only kinda, sorta, somewhat democracy in the region and they just seem to be blowing the opportunities available to them. Finally, I have promised my wife not to flip out and, instead, I will close my eyes of and thik of Chicago pizza.

[cdnvic]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

[andook]

You might find that a lot of countries that lack the discipline to produce a motor, also lack the necessaries to drive one. Excepting mibbe the Italians. Or the French.

[KhunMarco]

You might find that a lot of countries that lack the discipline to produce a motor, also lack the necessaries to drive one. Excepting mibbe the Italians. Or the French.

mmm let's see USA population 298,444,215 on avg 45,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

Italy population 58,133,509 on avg 5,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

do your math...

now if we take a look at firearms

USA 85,000 are wounded by firearms yearly

38,000 of these die, including 2,600 children , I don't even bother searching for Italy stats..

[meadish_sweetball]

Doesn't Bhuddism also apply to driving? They wouldn't need all that Bhuddist iconology in their cars if they drive sensibly. Maybe one problem is the perception of driving. In the west, driving is a privledged that is earned through testing or classwork and can be taken away from you any time if you get stupid. Here, you can get a license to drive in hour, or so I have been told. I'm sorry to say that I really wanted to kill that guy for a few seconds...smelling that cheap whiskey on his breath.

Judging a people a people or nation by its religion does not take you very far in explaining individual behaviour. In reailty, adherence to religious rules is a personal thing, dealt with differently by each individual.

It is only a marginal part of what they are, and it cannot really dictate people's actual behaviour, just a little as laws can.

Do you think it would be fair to judge the USA or a European country through the 10 commandments? Why don't Americans, Australians or Swedes stay virgins until married? Isn't that against Christianity?

Not much else to do about the traffic but to be extra careful when driving yourself. You won't change a whole country.

Many Thais are aware of the problem themselves, but the requirements still haven't changed much. The truth is even if driving training was made stricter, it still would not make much difference. A large number of Thais drive without a license anyway - because they can get away with it.

[midas]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

I have always thought FIRST RULE = NO RULES !!

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I hate to sound irresponsible and stupid, but I have, on occasions, got behind the wheel whilst under the influence of alcohol in Thailand... although I don't condone it and wish no disrespect to those who have been touched first hand by the problems can occur through drunk driving, I can say, IMO, that its the knowledge of facing almost zero chance of be caught/imprisoned that has lead me to do such a thing...

In the UK, I wouldn't even consider having 2 pints and driving. Not because I'd be a danger on the roads at midnight with almost no one around to hit, but simply through the fear of getting breath tested and arrested by the UK BiB.

Buddhism and alcohol... just have to go to a temple fare and see the Sangsom all over the place to figure that relationship out.

[Maigo6]

Most Farangs I know in Thailand drink and drive on a very regular basis.

[soundman]

You might find that a lot of countries that lack the discipline to produce a motor, also lack the necessaries to drive one. Excepting mibbe the Italians. Or the French.

mmm let's see USA population 298,444,215 on avg 45,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

Italy population 58,133,509 on avg 5,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

do your math...

now if we take a look at firearms

USA 85,000 are wounded by firearms yearly

38,000 of these die, including 2,600 children , I don't even bother searching for Italy stats..

You forgot to mention:

Approximations but fairly accurate:

Thailand: 70 mil people.

Annual road deaths 45,000.

Cars including pick ups. - 2000

Trucks - 3000

Motor cylcles & other conveyances inc. pedestrians 40,000.

Soundman.

[toptuan]

USA population 298,444,215 on avg 45,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

Thailand: 70 mil people. Annual road deaths 45,000.

Doing a little more math...Thailand's traffic death rate is four times that of the USA.

Calculation:

USA: 1 traffic death per 6,600 persons

Thailand: 1 traffic death per 1,550 persons

Edited March 29, 2007 by toptuan

[toptuan]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

CDNVIC, you often come through with some pretty good zingers, but this is your best-to-date.

Referring to your "suspension of disbelief," one of my farang friends put it this way: Thailand is like an old cartoon from the 50's & 60's. All these goofy, zany, illogical things going on...the crazy calliope music continues on...and all you can do is laugh at the incongruity of it all. So when I see some stupid antic in traffic, I think of the crazy cartoon music, the goofy characters whose actions don't make sense, just smile to myself and continue on. I refuse to try to figure it out any more.

If I hadn't adopted my friend's (and your) outlook, I would have, like our OP, choked the living daylights out of someone else by now, or ended up in a Thai jail, or mental ward.

[soundman]

USA population 298,444,215 on avg 45,000 are killed in auto accidents yearly (ten years avg)

Thailand: 70 mil people. Annual road deaths 45,000.

Doing a little more math...Thailand's traffic death rate is four times that of the USA.

Calculation:

USA: 1 traffic death per 6,600 persons

Thailand: 1 traffic death per 1,550 persons

And in Australia its something like 1500 people per annum with a population of 20 mil. I am guessing at this figure but its in the ballpark from advertising campaigns I have seen.

About 1 death per 13000 people.

To clarify the above numbers I am quoting from a thai highway police advertising campaign last year posted at most major service stations.

Soundman.

[jdinasia]

....... I began to insult him in the best Thai that I could for what he had done and that he was endangering his family. He proceed to gait up to me and place his hands on my shoulders...which is where I went off and proceed to choke the life out of him and throw him around. It took my wife's uncle and two other thais to pull me off him. .....made my little demon come to forfront. ......... I just wanted to choke the life out of him. ..... I'm sorry to say that I really wanted to kill that guy for a few seconds...smelling that cheap whiskey on his breath.

Apparently John Rambo DOES live in Thailand ......

Yes the guy was stupid if driving drunk .... but I can think of nothing as stupid as attacking a stranger when your life is no longer in danger!

[Pepe']

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

------------

Ferrari, Fiat and Renault, Peugot ?

[Pepe']

You might find that a lot of countries that lack the discipline to produce a motor, also lack the necessaries to drive one. Excepting mibbe the Italians. Or the French.

------------------

Actually meant to reply to this?

[Pepe']

I hate to sound irresponsible and stupid, but I have, on occasions, got behind the wheel whilst under the influence of alcohol in Thailand... although I don't condone it and wish no disrespect to those who have been touched first hand by the problems can occur through drunk driving, I can say, IMO, that its the knowledge of facing almost zero chance of be caught/imprisoned that has lead me to do such a thing...

In the UK, I wouldn't even consider having 2 pints and driving. Not because I'd be a danger on the roads at midnight with almost no one around to hit, but simply through the fear of getting breath tested and arrested by the UK BiB.

Buddhism and alcohol... just have to go to a temple fare and see the Sangsom all over the place to figure that relationship out.

------------------------

Several years ago one of my wife's school mates was being inducted to monkhood at a local temple in Kratumbaen.

There was a large throng of people dancing around and circling the temple.

I was pulled into the crowd to dance with the crowd. Several large bottles of whiskey were being passed around amoungst the guys.

They continued to coax me to drink so I faked taking a big swig and everyone was very happy.

It seemed strange to be passing a bootle of booze around at a temple in between Thai monks at 10:00 AM.

But I felt, When in Rome"...

[duratanium]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

CDNVIC, you often come through with some pretty good zingers, but this is your best-to-date.

Referring to your "suspension of disbelief," one of my farang friends put it this way: Thailand is like an old cartoon from the 50's & 60's. All these goofy, zany, illogical things going on...the crazy calliope music continues on...and all you can do is laugh at the incongruity of it all. So when I see some stupid antic in traffic, I think of the crazy cartoon music, the goofy characters whose actions don't make sense, just smile to myself and continue on. I refuse to try to figure it out any more.

If I hadn't adopted my friend's (and your) outlook, I would have, like our OP, choked the living daylights out of someone else by now, or ended up in a Thai jail, or mental ward.

I find driving in Thailand is akin to something like a cross between 'Keystone cops' and Laurel and Hardy' - with reference to the above

As for you reaction to the incident, I can understand it but also realise that 'losing it' never helps, sadly.

[andook]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

------------

Ferrari, Fiat and Renault, Peugot ?

Don't forget Lambourghini or Maserati?

[changhighlily]

Maybe it would be a good thing if speed cameras and more police were put on the roads and more fines and banning applied. It would certainly slow a few up and make then aware that the law exists. Also the country would be well in pocket. It would generate more income for the treasury than the 7% VAT. They do it all the time in Europe so why not in Thailnd

[andook]

Maybe it would be a good thing if speed cameras and more police were put on the roads and more fines and banning applied. It would certainly slow a few up and make then aware that the law exists. Also the country would be well in pocket. It would generate more income for the treasury than the 7% VAT. They do it all the time in Europe so why not in Thailnd

Ever wondered why there are so many Europeans based here? The cops here make money for themselves only. Laws exist to line their pockets only.

[soundman]

Maybe it would be a good thing if speed cameras and more police were put on the roads and more fines and banning applied. It would certainly slow a few up and make then aware that the law exists. Also the country would be well in pocket. It would generate more income for the treasury than the 7% VAT. They do it all the time in Europe so why not in Thailnd

Are you sure over regulation is a good thing?

Many expats in Thailand have over reugulation in their home country high on the list as to why they moved to thailand in the first place.

Soundman.

[gbt71fa]

You need a sense of humour and a suspension of disbelief to drive in Thailand. Sort of like watching a Michael Moore movie.

Aha! True very true...

[changhighlily]

Maybe it would be a good thing if speed cameras and more police were put on the roads and more fines and banning applied. It would certainly slow a few up and make then aware that the law exists. Also the country would be well in pocket. It would generate more income for the treasury than the 7% VAT. They do it all the time in Europe so why not in Thailnd

Are you sure over regulation is a good thing?

Many expats in Thailand have over reugulation in their home country high on the list as to why they moved to thailand in the first place.

Soundman.

Mybe so but it is all about saving lives and with so many deaths surely it cannot be wrong