3 Voa Then 3 Month Tourist Then Get Out

[H2oDunc]

I was talkingto a guy in Chumphon last night who had done his 3 visa runs went to Pennang, obtained a 3 month visa which ran out yesterday. He'd done his visa run to Ranong and expected to get another 3 VOA's. Went to Victoria point and upon return to Ranong given 7 days and told to return home. Looks like the Pennang way round things is'nt going to work. Just waiting for my friend to return from Ranong who has the same thing. Anyone else had similar????? Just glad I got work permit sorted. Well worth the money and no hassle

[Maestro]

The rule allows 90 visa-exempt days in 6 months and from reports so far Immigration officers do not have a uniform way of counting. You do not give the dates of that person’s visa-exempt stays but as not even 6 months have passed yet since the new rule came into effect he appears to have already used up the 90 days and therefore was not given a new 30-day visa-exempt entry.

--

Maestro

[Thai-Spy]

1st VE : OCT 1 - OCT 30 = 30 days

2nd VE: OCT 30 - NOV 28 = 30 days*

3rd VE: NOV 28 - DEC 27 = 30 days*

Visa in Penang, one night stay minimum

TV: DEC 28 - MAR 27 = 90 days

Without more exact info it's hard to know if the "tourist" had time left on the 90-day count, or if he was given mercy.

* Has it been made clear whether an exit and re-entry on VE on the same day will count as one day or two in the 90-day count?

[H2oDunc]

Well after talking to my mate on his way back from Ranong just now it looks like its go home time. He had done his 3 visa runs then went to Pennang and obtained a 3 month tourist visa. That ran out today. He thought like a lot of people he could now just fall into doing another 3 visa runs then Pennang again. Went to Ranong and was told if he left the country he would noit get back in again. Hes now on overstay and is working on his options now. Looks like hes got to head home for at least 3 months before returning. It looks like all those people who said it was easy were wrong. A warning to those in a similar situation.

[ovenman]

Looks like hes got to head home for at least 3 months before returning.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be simpler for your friend to simply return to Penang for another tourist visa?

[jeebusjones]

Well after talking to my mate on his way back from Ranong just now it looks like its go home time. He had done his 3 visa runs then went to Pennang and obtained a 3 month tourist visa. That ran out today. He thought like a lot of people he could now just fall into doing another 3 visa runs then Pennang again. Went to Ranong and was told if he left the country he would noit get back in again. Hes now on overstay and is working on his options now. Looks like hes got to head home for at least 3 months before returning. It looks like all those people who said it was easy were wrong. A warning to those in a similar situation.

He should just get another tourist visa from a consulate in a neighbouring country. I am in the exact same situation and have had no problems. I'm on my second tourist visa since October 1.

[jdinasia]

as has been said before ..... tourist visas and visa exemptions were not intended for living in Thailand.

Getting the days right and making sure you stick to the real rules seems to do fine with folks though!

[LivinLOS]

Let me guess..

His 30 + 30 + 30 done on a local border = 87 days.. Plus a Tourist visa 60 + 30..

Means he didnt check to see if he was actually under the 90 inside 180 / 6 month rule.. Probably needs to be out for a week / few days..

[deejah]

any news from poi pet border about the same situation?

[BronzeRider]

as has been said before ..... tourist visas and visa exemptions were not intended for living in Thailand.

Getting the days right and making sure you stick to the real rules seems to do fine with folks though!

?? WoW! I thought the 90 day rule applied only to those who entered on 3 x 30 day entry stamps.

You are saying the new rules apply for tourist visas as well?

I would sure like to know more about this. So would most folks!!

BR

[Maestro]

H2oDunc started the same topic in the forum "Thai visas, residency and work permits". I am now going to merge the two topics.

--

Maestro

[bangkokgas]

Curious too. Went to Pak Nam Rong (Cambodia) on Sunday and my passport reads as follows:

sept 2006 - tourist visa plus expension till dec 25th. (penang)

dec 29th - vientiane issued tourist visa (with extension in bkk) till march 24th

March 24th - 30 days (no obvious numbers 1,2,3,) just a yellow highlight on the visa class part of the stamp.

Seems there is no consistent application of new rules or am I missing something? as previous poster said: do t.v.'s come into the 180 day equation - my guess is that they do not. Anyone?

[jeebusjones]

do t.v.'s come into the 180 day equation - my guess is that they do not. Anyone?

No, they don't. For certain.

[beechguy]

any news from poi pet border about the same situation?

[ronw]

The reasoning behind this change in the" permission on entry" is easy to understand....

For too long the Thais have seen that people were entering the kingdom...for FREE....then , every 30 days ,going to a neighbouring country,to renew their permission.

So, in effect ,those so called tourists, were paying good money...TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, to be enabled to stay....FREE.....in Thailand.

Think about it.....there is no such thing as a free gift....if you want it....then PAY for it....do not expect something for nothing....BUY A VISA!!!

Very simple, really!!

[visarunner]

The rules are applied everywhere , different officers might calculate slightly different .

I have put this summary together which should help people to understand the rule better.

To do 3x30,TV and extension is not enough ,you end up with 176-178days only .

The new regulation , valid for entries AFTER the 1.10.06 affects only people entering Thailand on the 30-day visa exempt stamp , which is NOT a Tourist Visa as many think .

The regulation stipulates that visitors can only spend 90 days out of every SIX-MONTH period on the visa-exempt stamp. Days spent in Thailand on any kind of visa do not count towards that 90-day total.

Further, Immigration only counts the days actually spent within Thai borders, as long as you don’t exceed 90 days in a SIX-MONTH period, the number of visa-exempt entries are unlimited.

Please calculate your days very carefully. There is NO emergency visa allowance at the border.

Following scenario is possible : get a Tourist Visa at a Embassy/Consulate in a neighboring country which is valid for a stay of 60 day , after that period you can apply at the BKK Immigration@ Soi Suan Plu for a extension of 30days for THB 1,900.-.

A Tourist Visa will always be extended for 30days.

Extension of a Visa exempt stamp and any Non Immigrant Visa will be granted for 7 days only.

After this you can do 3 x 30 days Border runs and apply again for a Tourist Visa or you can extent any of the 30day visa exempt stamp at a Immigration Office.

Please remember you are allowed to stay only 90days with a visa exempt stamp (3x30days) in any SIX-MONTH period starting after your first entry since 1 of October 2006. Each entry counts !

To plan your trip to Laos please refer to the Office and Holiday Schedule for Year 2007 of the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Laos.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/about_officetime.html

To plan your trip to Malaysia please contact the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Malaysia directly , they do not have a webpage.

If you are not sure about the days you have spend already in the country please pm me and give following specific and complete information.

Example:

1. Entry @ Airport 11.10.06 exit @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, 30days, visa type: visa exempt

2. Entry @ Ban Laem 9.11.06 exit@ Mukdahan 7.12.06, 29 days, visa type: visa exempt

Enter @ Mukdahan 8.12.06 exit @ Ban Laem 5.2.07 , 60days, and visa type: Tourist Visa

Extension Immigration Office for 30days , THB 1,900.- , extension until 6.3.07

3.Entry @ Ban Laem 6.3.07 permission to stay until 4.4.07 , 30 days , visa type : visa exempt

Immigration will allow this person back into the Country with a 30day visa exempt stamp on 10.4.07.

This person has now two possibilies .

A: Get another Extension (THB 1,900.-) for 7 days at the Immigration and re-enter Thailand on the 10.4.07 with a 30day visa exempt stamp to start a new SIX-MONTH period with 3x30days border runs .

B: Apply on/before the 4.4.07 for a new Tourist Visa.

We recommend that you apply for the extension at the Immigration Office.

Visit a Thai Embassy/Consulate twice a year to get a Tourist Visa, or you can convert the 30day visa exempt stamp to a Non-Immigrant Visa by going to the Immigration Department with the proper documents and 21 day stay remaining, meaning you have up to 9 days time after your entry.

Application fee THB 2,000.- .

Please note that your Passport need to be valid for at least another 6 month for any Visa application.

Further info on MFA webpage : http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

All Embassies/Consulates in SEA will issue only Single Entry Tourist Visas.

Edited March 28, 2007 by visarunner

[bdcowger]

I was talkingto a guy in Chumphon last night who had done his 3 visa runs went to Pennang, obtained a 3 month visa which ran out yesterday. He'd done his visa run to Ranong and expected to get another 3 VOA's. Went to Victoria point and upon return to Ranong given 7 days and told to return home. Looks like the Pennang way round things is'nt going to work. Just waiting for my friend to return from Ranong who has the same thing. Anyone else had similar????? Just glad I got work permit sorted. Well worth the money and no hassle

[Gumballl]

At BKK (Suvanaboom?) there are signs that clearly state that no tourist must exceed 90 days in 6 months (180 days). I don't quite understand what is so difficult to understand here. Perhaps some "special" tourist feel that they are entitled to something more?

If you have more than 90 days in 6 months, just spend the remaining period until the 6 months are up someplace else. Jesus, how hard can that be, unless you are running away from something.

[ChokChaiChas]

Example:

1. Entry @ Airport 11.10.06 exit @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, 30days, visa type: visa exempt

2. Entry @ Ban Laem 9.11.06 exit@ Mukdahan 7.12.06, 29 days, visa type: visa exempt

Enter @ Mukdahan 8.12.06 exit @ Ban Laem 5.2.07 , 60days, and visa type: Tourist Visa

Extension Immigration Office for 30days , THB 1,900.- , extension until 6.3.07

3.Entry @ Ban Laem 6.3.07 permission to stay until 4.4.07 , 30 days , visa type : visa exempt

Immigration will allow this person back into the Country with a 30day visa exempt stamp on 10.4.07.

This person has now two possibilies .

A: Get another Extension (THB 1,900.-) for 7 days at the Immigration and re-enter Thailand on the 10.4.07 with a 30day visa exempt stamp to start a new SIX-MONTH period with 3x30days border runs .

B: Apply on/before the 4.4.07 for a new Tourist Visa.

We recommend that you apply for the extension at the Immigration

Minor corrections to your example:

The 2nd visa exempt entry would be valid until 8.12.06.

Enter Mukdahan with TR visa on 9.12.06 and obtain 60 days to 6.2.07 extended WITHIN Thailand to 8.3.07. You appear to suggest exiting Thailand to obtain the extension (apologies if I misinterpret you).

Exit/Re-enter 8.3.07 and receive 30 days visa exempt to 6.4.7

Two options, either exit on or before 6.4.7 go a consulate and get a new visa (sensible). Or, pointlessly, apply for extension to the visa-free entry. If the latter it should be extended to 7.4.07 (1 day) assuming 9.11.06 is not double counted (something that needs resolving). They may be generous and give 2 days by not counting 8.3.07 against your 90 days as you held a visa for that day. You certainly won't get 7 days.

He will not get another 30 day stamp untill 11.4.07, 6 months after 1st entry).

I am sure that in the next month or so we will finally learn how immigration interprets the new rules - one thing is for sure it will not be consistent and unlikely to be fair. Pity the person who joins the queue a BKK behind a chap from Singapore who travels to Thailand every other week for 3 or 4 days for R&R.

By the way who is we?

Edited for typo

Edited March 29, 2007 by ChokChaiChas

[bangkokgas]

At BKK (Suvanaboom?) there are signs that clearly state that no tourist must exceed 90 days in 6 months (180 days). I don't quite understand what is so difficult to understand here. Perhaps some "special" tourist feel that they are entitled to something more?

If you have more than 90 days in 6 months, just spend the remaining period until the 6 months are up someplace else. Jesus, how hard can that be, unless you are running away from something.

[brahmburgers]

Some posters make valiant efforts to try to understand the convoluted visa rules - though it's tough, because the rules aren't consistent, and they're interpreted differently by different authorities on duty - at different places. As if that weren't enough, even the farang experts who study this stuff, don't see eye to eye.

Then there are the farang who give off the cuff truisms in one brief sentence, and expect that to solve it for everyone, and anyone who doesn't get the message is a dunce.

My read on this is Thai immigration authorities intentionally make these things difficult and inconsistent. They don't agree among themselves on specifics, or at least the parameters are changing from place to place, and from person to person.

Best of all would be a farang-friendly arrangement that easy to administer and easy to understand. I could devise a such plan in a half hour. It may take awhile for Thai immigration to get the message: but more and more farang are headed to other places, and that means more and more revenue is not getting spent in Thailand. The farang who leave are not necessarily the 'undesirables' - they're just as often decent folks (some of whom happen to be married to Thais and/or rich). So the tightening-up policies initiated by Thaksin's xenophobic administration (last summer) and further complicated by the current junta - are having a slow but steady effect.

Already, border-based businesses are seeing many less customers. Real estate activity involving farang is drying up, tourism in general is down.

[Thai-Spy]

I am sure that in the next month or so we will finally learn how immigration interprets the new rules - one thing is for sure it will not be consistent and unlikely to be fair.

Indeed, tomorrow is the 181st day since 1 October 2006. The TV/VE angst should quickly grow to new heights.

The fact that immigration checkpoints can't comprehend and uniformly implement what seems a very simple policy is sad. But given that any Thai government project quickly becomes a petty fiefdom, it's not at all surprising.

[baboon]

I just want to say Dunc is a friend of mine and definately no scaremonger. Dunc, can you PM me or come round and let me know who you were speaking to?

[beechguy]

as has been said before ..... tourist visas and visa exemptions were not intended for living in Thailand.

Getting the days right and making sure you stick to the real rules seems to do fine with folks though!

?? WoW! I thought the 90 day rule applied only to those who entered on 3 x 30 day entry stamps.

You are saying the new rules apply for tourist visas as well?

I would sure like to know more about this. So would most folks!!

BR

"You are saying that the new rules apply for tourist visas as well"

He didn't say that! I think jdinasia, meant that if you want to stay long term, then get the correct visa. If (one) is going to stay as a tourist, then fine. get a tourist visa. If (one) has some other situation, employment, marriage, etc. then why not get off their ass and get a Non-Imm O of some kind. Thailand is not the only country that has similar restrictions for certain visas. So, I personally don't think they are so anti-farang.

Edited by beechguy for incorrect grammar.

Edited March 30, 2007 by beechguy

[danc]

The rules are applied everywhere , different officers might calculate slightly different .

I have put this summary together which should help people to understand the rule better.

To do 3x30,TV and extension is not enough ,you end up with 176-178days only .

The new regulation , valid for entries AFTER the 1.10.06 affects only people entering Thailand on the 30-day visa exempt stamp , which is NOT a Tourist Visa as many think .

The regulation stipulates that visitors can only spend 90 days out of every SIX-MONTH period on the visa-exempt stamp. Days spent in Thailand on any kind of visa do not count towards that 90-day total.

Further, Immigration only counts the days actually spent within Thai borders, as long as you don’t exceed 90 days in a SIX-MONTH period, the number of visa-exempt entries are unlimited.

Please calculate your days very carefully. There is NO emergency visa allowance at the border.

Following scenario is possible : get a Tourist Visa at a Embassy/Consulate in a neighboring country which is valid for a stay of 60 day , after that period you can apply at the BKK Immigration@ Soi Suan Plu for a extension of 30days for THB 1,900.-.

A Tourist Visa will always be extended for 30days.

Extension of a Visa exempt stamp and any Non Immigrant Visa will be granted for 7 days only.

After this you can do 3 x 30 days Border runs and apply again for a Tourist Visa or you can extent any of the 30day visa exempt stamp at a Immigration Office.

Please remember you are allowed to stay only 90days with a visa exempt stamp (3x30days) in any SIX-MONTH period starting after your first entry since 1 of October 2006. Each entry counts !

To plan your trip to Laos please refer to the Office and Holiday Schedule for Year 2007 of the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Laos.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/about_officetime.html

To plan your trip to Malaysia please contact the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Malaysia directly , they do not have a webpage.

If you are not sure about the days you have spend already in the country please pm me and give following specific and complete information.

Example:

1. Entry @ Airport 11.10.06 exit @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, 30days, visa type: visa exempt

2. Entry @ Ban Laem 9.11.06 exit@ Mukdahan 7.12.06, 29 days, visa type: visa exempt

Enter @ Mukdahan 8.12.06 exit @ Ban Laem 5.2.07 , 60days, and visa type: Tourist Visa

Extension Immigration Office for 30days , THB 1,900.- , extension until 6.3.07

3.Entry @ Ban Laem 6.3.07 permission to stay until 4.4.07 , 30 days , visa type : visa exempt

Immigration will allow this person back into the Country with a 30day visa exempt stamp on 10.4.07.

This person has now two possibilies .

A: Get another Extension (THB 1,900.-) for 7 days at the Immigration and re-enter Thailand on the 10.4.07 with a 30day visa exempt stamp to start a new SIX-MONTH period with 3x30days border runs .

B: Apply on/before the 4.4.07 for a new Tourist Visa.

We recommend that you apply for the extension at the Immigration Office.

Visit a Thai Embassy/Consulate twice a year to get a Tourist Visa, or you can convert the 30day visa exempt stamp to a Non-Immigrant Visa by going to the Immigration Department with the proper documents and 21 day stay remaining, meaning you have up to 9 days time after your entry.

Application fee THB 2,000.- .

Please note that your Passport need to be valid for at least another 6 month for any Visa application.

Further info on MFA webpage : http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

All Embassies/Consulates in SEA will issue only Single Entry Tourist Visas.

[Pattaya46]

then why not get off their ass and get a Non-Imm O of some kind / So, I personally don't think they are so anti-farang.

"non-Imm O of some kind"...

Come and say that to under 50 guys who are not maried and are not working... No option

[Dupont]

then why not get off their ass and get a Non-Imm O of some kind / So, I personally don't think they are so anti-farang.

"non-Imm O of some kind"...

Come and say that to under 50 guys who are not maried and are not working... No option

Under 50, you can get a year one non- O on the basis you are thinking about moving out here and investing, starting up a business, or thinking of marrying your girlfriend. Many people have them!

Can't expect the Thais not to clamp down on this mess just because one or two rich guys under 50 (and you must be rich if you can live all year over here without working) will be affected. I don't know anybody affected that couldn't put their house in order, as most of the ones I know, have wives, businesses etc. They just found it easier and cheaper down the years to avoid paying tax and national insurance.

Surely the Thai's are within their rights to clamp down on this blatent evasion! I gives all the illegal foreigners a finincial head start and advantage over us legal foreigners! I ( and I am sure I speak for the vast majority of LEGAL business people here) don't want undercutting my prices and undermining my business purely because they are saving on the costs of registering companies, paying tax and insurance etc.

If you are a guy under 50 with enough money to be holidaying here for 10 years plus (as a lot of my friends have done), you can afford to get legal, go home for a year visa, or live/holiday as cheaply in neighbouring countries for the time you need to spend out of the country.

This was bound to happen sooner or later, and the main body of people affected (only in my direct experience) are bar owners and dive staff working without papers.

Whats the problem? get legal or get out is what they are saying. I have yet to meet a single case deserving of any sympathy in this matter.

Perhaps there are a few cases out there, but not enough to be bringing about a change in this law! - I say this to try and prevent the usual sob story about a friend of a friend whos mates etc. etc. etc. that appear on here from time to time. We ignore em!

[Tod Daniels]

Quite a variety of opinions on this thread, but not all that surprising here on the T/V Forum.

I am under 50, retired, NOT married to or supporting a thai national, and on my third Non-O Visa here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

It is not difficult to get Non-O visa's outside of Asia by any stretch of the term. They are handed out by the hundreds, if not thousands in the UK, US, and other places, most times without anything more than an application, a photo and the money.

Lest we forget; it IS their country. What we feel; right or wrong is totally immaterial. The endless whining about a better way, a simpler way, is just that whining. The munchkins here can decide to change, to enforce and to interpret the laws as they see fit. I see no down side to the elimination of an endless stay here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” on 30 day visa exempt stamps. IF you're a tourist, then well, be a tourist; otherwise <deleted> were you doing living here on visa exempt stamps?

If you cannot afford to return to the UK or the US to get a visa; I would hazard a guess that you're in no way an actual contributor to the greasy yet squeaky wheel that is thai tourism. The latest stats I could find put tourist spending at 3700+ baht a day, without hotel costs factored in. I doubt the 30 day runners pumped that kind of baht into the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I know I certainly don’t, but then again, I'm NOT a tourist.

I have heard too many sob stories, sour grapes, etc from long stay 'tourists'. I could fill a book with the excuses they give on why they cannot get 'legal'. In the end its still just excuses, nothing more. This is a cheap place to live and it is a relatively easy place to stay long term. However you can never ever forget the munchkins here in glorious “Land ‘O Thais” run the show.

Lest you think I am unsympathetic (as if I give a ---- what you think); I have assisted more friends than I can count in acquiring Non-O visa's. Yes they did have to slog it to the US or UK but they all are happily coexisting with the munchkins without problems here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The real meaning of the enforcement is; be a real tourist, get legal, or get out, it’s that simple.

[beechguy]

then why not get off their ass and get a Non-Imm O of some kind / So, I personally don't think they are so anti-farang.

"non-Imm O of some kind"...

Come and say that to under 50 guys who are not maried and are not working... No option

I hope you will read the replies by Mr. Dupont and Tod-Daniels. I couldn't have written a better response.

Is the Thai immigration system perfect? No, but compared to other countries I've worked in. It isn't that bad! So, if they want to live in Thailand, I still think they need to get off their ass, quit whining, and deal with it. Apparently many others have!

[Mai Krap]

My god these threads are a bore, the same old grouchy know it alls with there superior attitude from sorting some visa across a ocean where it is as easy as a single stamp. May I suggest if you have your visa sorted please restrain yourself from comment about any who do not, either be helpful or shut your $#%$# %$#%$ #%$ #%$#%$#! Unplugging your keyboard would also be a nice option.

If I see one more guy type "Get Out of Thailand!" or "Go Home!" My next visa will be with a work permit because I'm going to get a job at the Thai Post Office!