Thai Junta Chief Calls For Emergency Rule In Bangkok

[hammered]

Well, in the US, where "freedom of speech" is stoutly defended more than anywhere else in the world, including Europe, you still cannot say anything you like. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. You can advocate directly for the harm of others.

That is the situation I see here, where you apparantlyu have some groups that are Thaksin related agitating so they can get back into power under the umbrella of free speech. It is a great tactic and gets used a lot

Recent example: In the US, the new Congress is trying to get the troops out of Iraq. Bush says, essentially, "If you take the troops out of Iraq, then it will cause the troops to stay in Iraq longer". Sounds funny, sounds stupid, but it works. It muddies the water as to who is doing what, and lets wrongdoers get away with what they want.

If this is the situation, as look looks like it is to me, then the current guys are doing a very good job. Thaksin ought not be able to shout "Fire!"

Spot on there. Interesting that it exposes a change in tactics by the TRT fronts. Freedom of Speech is more of an issue with educated middle class and up social groups. Interesting to see this now develop as a battle for the hearts and minds of the middle classes. Of course it would be niaive to think anyone really ever cared about the majority of the population.

[John K]

Noppadol denies Thaksin cut deal with Surayud

The ousted premier's legal advisor Noppadon Pattama dismissed allegations made by the People Alliance for Democracy PAD) that Thaksin Shinawatra has made a secret agreement with Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont.

Noppadon said during his press conference that his client has no any agreement with Surayud, but said the deposed premier told Surayud that he would not do anything that could be regarded as a political movement and would not return to the country at this time.

The PAD on Tuesday said they thought Surayud had done a deal "to go soft" on Thaksin, and that Surayud's activities have cast doubts he might also have made a deal with the old regime.

The Nation

[John K]

Although this last news clipping is very disturbing, there is a possibility of it being true. In that case that could be the one and only thing needed to have another coup. The next move by the PM on the TRT / Thaksin will set the tone. Dare I say another dance with the devil?

[pumpuiman]

Does anyone care to remember who sued people on a weekly or daily basis because he did not like what they said. Well that make two Thaksin signatures tied to this.

Pumpuiman, do you still say Thaksin is history and not involved? He is very much a player.

you just can't stop can you.

Your spoon fed by dictators and beg for more.

Lemming.

[John K]

Does anyone care to remember who sued people on a weekly or daily basis because he did not like what they said. Well that make two Thaksin signatures tied to this.

Pumpuiman, do you still say Thaksin is history and not involved? He is very much a player.

you just can't stop can you.

Your spoon fed by dictators and beg for more.

Lemming.

I guess you have not made it to the Thaksin quits thread yet.

Here is a quick link for you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1250996

[John K]

So seeing that Thaksin says not what he means....

Thaksin wants poll to go ahead: Surapong

Surapong Suebwonglee yesterday tried to distance his Thai Rak Thai Party from the anti-coup protests and defended ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra as wanting to see the general election take place rather than derail it.

"If my party was behind the anti-coup activities, I believe the protests would be on a much larger scale: just look at the mass rallies we organised ahead of last year's general election," said Surapong, a key party member.

The organisers of PTV's demonstrations, the nucleus of the anti-coup movements, have resigned their party memberships, he said.

Thaksin agrees with Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont's road map to restore democratic rule, he said.

"I think Thaksin has made himself very clear that he does not encourage any party members to get involved with anti-coup activities," he said, admitting that he has not had any direct contact with the former party leader lately.

Surapong said the coup-makers should concentrate on fixing the country's problems instead of wasting time plotting another coup.

He also opposes the plan by the People's Alliance for Democracy, a key anti-Thaksin coalition, to pressure Surayud into quitting.

"The key issue is to call the general election as soon as possible, otherwise the country will regress," he said.

The party is sure to win its election-fraud case, he said. A guilty verdict by the Constitution Tribunal on May 30 could mean the end of the party.

Election Commission chairman Apichart Sukhagganond confirmed that election day would be December 16 or 23.

"This is an auspicious marked by His Majesty the King's 80th birthday, a good rallying point for awareness of righteousness to deter vote-buying," he said.

The campaign for clean and fair polls may lose momentum if the general election is delayed till next year, he said.

It would be even better, he said, if the drafting of the new constitution and the referendum on it finish ahead of schedule and the election can take place even earlier.

The EC is reviewing a plan to transport voters to balloting stations free.

To forestall anti-coup campaigners, the Interior Ministry has instructed all governors to beef up security in their provinces for Songkran and beyond.

The CNS's General Sondhi Boonyaratglin yesterday insisted that he would not become premier if PM Surayud Chulanont resigned as critics forecast.

"I see no reason for me to become prime minister," he said.

Sondhi also said he would take a close look at all political movements after Songkran and find out who was behind them.

Sondhi said he would leave any Cabinet reshuffle to the prime minister.

The Nation

[John K]

Army officers hit back at 'bias in the ranks'

By Wassana Nanuam

Officers who happened to be pre-cadet classmates of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Class 10 at the Armed Forces Academy Preparatory School will file a suit with the Administrative Court against their "unfair" transfers in March by the Council for National Security (CNS).

They were all moved from key positions in the armed forces to inactive positions in the off-season military reshuffle engineered last month by CNS chairman and army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and CNS vice chairman and air force chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk.

They say the transfers were discriminatory because professional and outstanding officers were moved to inferior positions only because they were from Class 10.

They argue the reshuffle was aimed at giving the CNS absolute control over the armed forces as they promoted their own men to important and command positions.

The officers plan to collectively petition the Administrative Court.

"We are filing a lawsuit to seek justice from the Administrative Court because we were transferred unfairly," said one member of the group, who asked not to be named.

"If we remain silent, the CNS will continue doing this. We are aiming at justice and fair transfers for officers from every class, not only for the CNS officers."

Another Class 10 member said the CNS claimed it was protecting itself from the old power clique, but the reshuffle should have been fair instead of rewarding only officers with links to the CNS.

"Impartial and professional officers were also transferred because the CNS is not sure who they favour. This is not fair either," he said. The protesting officers say some Class 10 members had truly earned the important positions they held prior to the reshuffle.

However, the CNS claimed they had progressed because of their links to Mr Thaksin. The CNS feared these officers would side with Mr Thaksin, so they were all transferred.

This had undermined morale and caused divisions, the protesting officers said.

In the March reshuffle, air force assistant chief ACM Sukampol Suwannathat was sidelined as an air force expert and deputy chief of the joint staff Gen Pornchai Kranlert became an expert at the Supreme Command.

"Serious mistakes normally justify such transfers but we were moved only because we are friends of Mr Thaksin. Is this our fault? What do you fear?" said another Class 10 member.

"The only way we can fight this is through legal channels. We pin our hopes on the justice system," said the key Class 10 figure

Source Bangkok post

Step by step piece by piece Thaksin is attempting to reassemble his power.

[John K]

I guess they simply don’t understand in the military means to follow the orders of your superior officers if you like them or not. I think Helen Keller could see what is going on here with her cane. This is exactly how Thaksin got to where he was with his power before with seemingly insignificant changes one at a time.

[Sandstone Art]

Army officers hit back at 'bias in the ranks'

By Wassana Nanuam

Officers who happened to be pre-cadet classmates of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Class 10 at the Armed Forces Academy Preparatory School will file a suit with the Administrative Court against their "unfair" transfers in March by the Council for National Security (CNS).

They were all moved from key positions in the armed forces to inactive positions in the off-season military reshuffle engineered last month by CNS chairman and army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and CNS vice chairman and air force chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk.

They say the transfers were discriminatory because professional and outstanding officers were moved to inferior positions only because they were from Class 10.

They argue the reshuffle was aimed at giving the CNS absolute control over the armed forces as they promoted their own men to important and command positions.

The officers plan to collectively petition the Administrative Court.

"We are filing a lawsuit to seek justice from the Administrative Court because we were transferred unfairly," said one member of the group, who asked not to be named.

"If we remain silent, the CNS will continue doing this. We are aiming at justice and fair transfers for officers from every class, not only for the CNS officers."

Another Class 10 member said the CNS claimed it was protecting itself from the old power clique, but the reshuffle should have been fair instead of rewarding only officers with links to the CNS.

"Impartial and professional officers were also transferred because the CNS is not sure who they favour. This is not fair either," he said. The protesting officers say some Class 10 members had truly earned the important positions they held prior to the reshuffle.

However, the CNS claimed they had progressed because of their links to Mr Thaksin. The CNS feared these officers would side with Mr Thaksin, so they were all transferred.

This had undermined morale and caused divisions, the protesting officers said.

In the March reshuffle, air force assistant chief ACM Sukampol Suwannathat was sidelined as an air force expert and deputy chief of the joint staff Gen Pornchai Kranlert became an expert at the Supreme Command.

"Serious mistakes normally justify such transfers but we were moved only because we are friends of Mr Thaksin. Is this our fault? What do you fear?" said another Class 10 member.

"The only way we can fight this is through legal channels. We pin our hopes on the justice system," said the key Class 10 figure

Source Bangkok post

Step by step piece by piece Thaksin is attempting to reassemble his power.

They forgot about when Taksin was in power, they were rewarded with promotions too.

How fair is just fair?

They do not make good soldiers!

[hammered]

Army officers hit back at 'bias in the ranks'

By Wassana Nanuam

Officers who happened to be pre-cadet classmates of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in Class 10 at the Armed Forces Academy Preparatory School will file a suit with the Administrative Court against their "unfair" transfers in March by the Council for National Security (CNS).

They were all moved from key positions in the armed forces to inactive positions in the off-season military reshuffle engineered last month by CNS chairman and army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and CNS vice chairman and air force chief ACM Chalit Pukpasuk.

They say the transfers were discriminatory because professional and outstanding officers were moved to inferior positions only because they were from Class 10.

They argue the reshuffle was aimed at giving the CNS absolute control over the armed forces as they promoted their own men to important and command positions.

The officers plan to collectively petition the Administrative Court.

"We are filing a lawsuit to seek justice from the Administrative Court because we were transferred unfairly," said one member of the group, who asked not to be named.

"If we remain silent, the CNS will continue doing this. We are aiming at justice and fair transfers for officers from every class, not only for the CNS officers."

Another Class 10 member said the CNS claimed it was protecting itself from the old power clique, but the reshuffle should have been fair instead of rewarding only officers with links to the CNS.

"Impartial and professional officers were also transferred because the CNS is not sure who they favour. This is not fair either," he said. The protesting officers say some Class 10 members had truly earned the important positions they held prior to the reshuffle.

However, the CNS claimed they had progressed because of their links to Mr Thaksin. The CNS feared these officers would side with Mr Thaksin, so they were all transferred.

This had undermined morale and caused divisions, the protesting officers said.

In the March reshuffle, air force assistant chief ACM Sukampol Suwannathat was sidelined as an air force expert and deputy chief of the joint staff Gen Pornchai Kranlert became an expert at the Supreme Command.

"Serious mistakes normally justify such transfers but we were moved only because we are friends of Mr Thaksin. Is this our fault? What do you fear?" said another Class 10 member.

"The only way we can fight this is through legal channels. We pin our hopes on the justice system," said the key Class 10 figure

Source Bangkok post

Step by step piece by piece Thaksin is attempting to reassemble his power.

Will class ten support all those overlooked by the Thaksin regime for promotion while that regime was busy promoting untalented sycpophants over talented officers? I dont think so. I wonder what they have to say about Gen Anupong being one of the top 3 generals in the country. He is class ten. It is just politics. The former Thaksin regime servitors are trying to say they did nothing wrong ever and are just being picked on. That is the theme coming out now from PTV, class ten, Thaksin himself, TRT itself, Thammarak (hic hic), Yuth "dooyen" etc etc ad nauseum. A brutal power struggle that will do the country no good, not that these characters care about the country anyway. Why not put the class ten offciers tied to Thaksins boots back in power then they can have their own coup and bring back his mightiness Mr. T and then everything will be wonderful and everyone will be so happy, then they can have a war against sombody or something again and get back to offing and locking up all their politcal opponents while turning a blind eye to what their own mafia get up to and stuffing the courts, police and any other institution with their own cronies. Thailand really needs to move on with something new and not just get embroiled in a pro and anti Thaksin and his regime war. Sadly it seems this outcome is not allowed.

[Mid]

all hot air until the average man here wakes to the notion that honest endeavour and toil are the only way forward .

nope , not holding my breath ..................................

[John K]

Police fear post-holiday rise in tension

Renewed rallies expected to spark more rounds of bitter rivalry, especially after reports of rural people being mobilised

The political temperature is expected to rise when people finish celebrating Songkran. Analysts say all political factions - both pro and anti-junta - are set to make demands.

More and bigger political rallies are predicted as it appears Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont's promise to hold an election in mid-December has not been greeted with full confidence.

Police chiefs met yesterday to prepare for political rallies and street demonstrations, as intelligence reports showed provincial people would be mobilised to take to the streets of the capital.

Deputy National Police Commis-sioner Pol General Wichian Potposri called a meeting of officials including deputy Bangkok Governor Wallop Suwandi to discuss the plan to maintain security in Bangkok in light of any street protests.

The junta chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin has called on all political movements to keep calm, saying all problems in the Kingdom would be solved within months.

The country's problems had been caused by somebody addicted to power who had not given up fighting to return to power, he said.

Asked if political moves were being made to block the general from becoming prime minister, Sonthi said he did not want to be premier.

"No, I won't take it. I don't want to get more agony [from politics] … this time is enough. I insist I won't be prime minister," Sonthi told reporters.

Political analysts floated theories yesterday, projecting uncertainty over the election while political groups supporting and opposing the government were expected to continue activities with increased efforts to topple their political rivals.

Thai Rai Thai Party spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang raised doubts as to whether the Council for National Security (CNS) was behind plans for the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to stage more protests. He suspected political groups wanted to create chaos as an excuse to retain power. These groups did not want to see a quick election, he claimed.

"We suspect that some political groups are creating political turmoil so that election cannot be held as the government announced."

He said PAD moves to pressure Surayud to step down supported his suspicion.

"We wonder if the CNS is behind them to create political turmoil so that it can cite this as a reason to stay in power," he said.

Democrat Party deputy leader Jurin Laksanavisit, meanwhile, felt there was only a 50 per cent chance that the election would be held at the end of the year. He gave four reasons.

First, if the Constitution Court ruled to dissolve various political parties, the politicians belonging to them could instigate opposition to the government.

Second, as the Assets Examination Committee wraps up investigations incriminating more politicians for corruption, the politicians could be expected to counter-attack or fight in some way.

Third, if the new constitution draft included too many clauses which were opposed by political parties and the public, it was likely the draft would not pass the referendum. So, it was inevitable that the junta would have to select an old constitution to use. "If the one they pick is opposed by the public, this could lead to more political problems," Jurin said.

The final reason, he said, was the government's failure to solve problems such as rising violence in the South and the sagging economy, which may cause more anti-government sentiment and lead to turmoil if the election could not be held.

CNS office director General Somjet Boonthanom voiced similar concerns. He said the country faced political uncertainty.

"I do not mean to cause panic or erode business confidence in the country. But investors have to understand the circumstances. If there is rising political turmoil, a general election cannot be held," he said.

Source: The Nation

[John K]

Police 'ask' rural folks to stay up-country

By Wassayos Ngamkham

Political tension is expected to escalate after the Songkran holiday ends today, as a number of anti-government groups based in the provinces are reportedly preparing to stage mass protests in Bangkok. At Sanam Luang, a merit-making ceremony sponsored by the government, is to be held from today until Sunday.

Officers hope people in the provinces will refrain from travelling to Bangkok to join political protests.

Deputy national police chief Wichian Potphosri said mass demonstrations in the capital could lead to public disturbances which could get out of hand.

The Interior Ministry would be largely responsible for blocking protesters in the provinces from joining mass demonstrations in Bangkok, Pol Gen Wichian said.

Police would work with provincial governors and the Internal Security Operations Command to persuade those groups and their supporters to stay in their home provinces, said Pol Gen Wichian.

He said some protesters would likely try to enter Bangkok in the guise of holidaymakers returning to the capital from the provinces.

Security measures would be beefed up at Sanam Luang, he said.

Organisers of any public gathering must first seek permission from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) to use the public ground at Sanam Luang, Pol Gen Wichian said.

Such requests would be considered on a case-by-case basis in view of the fact Sanam Luang has already been booked for the merit-making ceremony sponsored by the government, he said.

Rally organisers with good records of compliance with the BMA's regulations would likely be granted permission first, he added.

Deputy governor Vallop Suwandee said almost the entire area of Sanam Luang is reserved for the merit-making ceremony.

Source: Bangkok post

[John K]

There seems to be a lot going on and it also seems this is a significant push before the announcement May 30 on the status of the TRT. I don’t want to make a prediction but the people who I have been talking to feel this is going to escalate very quickly and the TRT will use any excuse to make it bigger. This is all designed to cause instability and divide the country. If the police are called in they may accidently go after the wrong crowd or be impotent like they were about a month ago when asked to take down a stage.

The PM’s face is on the line here too, if he is seen to do anything less than decisive it will become more apparent that he too is in Thaksin’s pocket. It is in the PM’s best interest not to let the anti coup rally go forward. He appears to be having enough difficulties without this added aggravation to distract him. This certainly is the catalyst for another coup as it clearly plays into Thaksin’s hands. Another coup would be much more difficult to sell to the public as being good and that also plays into Thaksin’s hands. Unless this is stopped before it starts it will become a win win situation for Thaksin.

[hammered]

There seems to be a lot going on and it also seems this is a significant push before the announcement May 30 on the status of the TRT. I don’t want to make a prediction but the people who I have been talking to feel this is going to escalate very quickly and the TRT will use any excuse to make it bigger. This is all designed to cause instability and divide the country. If the police are called in they may accidently go after the wrong crowd or be impotent like they were about a month ago when asked to take down a stage.

The PM’s face is on the line here too, if he is seen to do anything less than decisive it will become more apparent that he too is in Thaksin’s pocket. It is in the PM’s best interest not to let the anti coup rally go forward. He appears to be having enough difficulties without this added aggravation to distract him. This certainly is the catalyst for another coup as it clearly plays into Thaksin’s hands. Another coup would be much more difficult to sell to the public as being good and that also plays into Thaksin’s hands. Unless this is stopped before it starts it will become a win win situation for Thaksin.

The TRT stalwarts I know - who wont by the way hear a word against Mr. T and his party in an almost religious fundamentalist way - are predicting something is going to happen quick and "everything will then be alright". I cant get any more than this. However, they also predicted something would happen in March and it didnt. My own feeling is that nobody is actually certain and things are being talked up. It was reported just after the coup that attempts were made to pay Buri Ram residents to descend on Bangkok but no takers could be found. Maybe things have changed now. Certainly, if an overreaction can be garnered from the authorities there will be more opposition to them. What I cannot work out is if the junta and government go what are the PTV, TRT etc people proposing should replace them? There is a vague call for early elections, but that cannot happen until after the May 30 decisions and then early elections could be the last thing TRT want as all their ex-sitting MPs could be inelligible. I can only interpret that they want their caretaker government back to oversee elections and stop the dissolution of at least one party after all it was they who initiated the move against the Dems. Anyway the PTV and anti-coup group at the moment are not proposing anything for the country. They are just opposing what exists right now, which leaves motives totally questionable. Once again I would expect any real pro-democracy group in the anti-coup camp to disassociate themselves rapidy from the "TRT and dear leader did nothing wrong ever and must be allowed to continue running the country" movement.

[cclub75]

CNS office director General Somjet Boonthanom voiced similar concerns. He said the country faced political uncertainty.

"I do not mean to cause panic or erode business confidence in the country. But investors have to understand the circumstances. If there is rising political turmoil, a general election cannot be held," he said.

Slowly but surely, the "stage" is being built. For the next Thai Drama.

First, a coup. "Thaksin, corruption, blabla".

Then, the hand on the heart : "new era, new constitution, new elections within 1 year. Sure."

But rapidly, reality check knock on the door. Failures. Drawbacks. More violence in the south. Bombings in BKK. The gvt is struggling to manage the day to day operations, and struggling to hide that they want to act not as an interim gvt, but as they were in charge for a much longer time.

It becomes obvious that the junta will keep the power.

Then, "Third party", "old clique", "undercurrents" etc. The enemy is here, everywhere, around us. But it seems difficult -or dangerous- to name it. It's like... an evil.

Then, some voices, within the CNS : "you have to understand and to be patient : if there is turmoil... then elections can not be held".

Why eventually, elections will be postponed ?

Because, CNS and the military/conservative thai clique... would loose them !

Just one year ago, TRT/Thaksin received 15 millions of votes (general elections of april 2006)... Everybody seem to have forgotten this fact.

Question : those 15 millions people, do they feel better now ? Will they cast, happily, their vote for the junta, during the referendum ? And then, at general elections ?

Is it possible, and reasonable, to think that the situation (politic, economic and security) of the country will improve before next december ?

Of course not. It can only get worse.

Therefore, elections are likely to be... a mirage.

A red herring.

Edited April 18, 2007 by sbk
discussion of the Royal Family is against forum rules

[Old Man River]

This is all designed to cause instability and divide the country.

Anyway the PTV and anti-coup group at the moment are not proposing anything for the country.

The country is completely and utterly divided and in pieces. Among the opposition, there is no cohesiveness. In times like these, the one who has consolidated enough power to be in power stays in power. The only way something "big" could happen is if it is the result of internal squabbles within the military. In the past those that know Thailand have said the Monarchy is this country's stabilizing force. That has never been more evident than now.

[John K]

Actually to make a disclaimer is a wise move. If it take 12 hours to drive from point A to point B during sunny weather, you can certainly expect it to take longer during a storm. If the Thaksin looks to make storm delays in the election then people should look at the cause and not the effect.

As for the 15 million votes the TRT received, I don’t dispute that. After all everyone should get what they pay for. It does not matter if it was a sack of rice, fertilizer, cash, or some buffalos given in payment. To be paid again to come to rallies in Bangkok, simply tells me that it conflicts with their personal unpaid views, but every view has a price in Thailand I guess. If it was their view to begin with then the need to get paid is unnecessary, but everyone will put their hand out for free money too.

[hammered]

Actually to make a disclaimer is a wise move. If it take 12 hours to drive from point A to point B during sunny weather, you can certainly expect it to take longer during a storm. If the Thaksin looks to make storm delays in the election then people should look at the cause and not the effect.

As for the 15 million votes the TRT received, I don’t dispute that. After all everyone should get what they pay for. It does not matter if it was a sack of rice, fertilizer, cash, or some buffalos given in payment. To be paid again to come to rallies in Bangkok, simply tells me that it conflicts with their personal unpaid views, but every view has a price in Thailand I guess. If it was their view to begin with then the need to get paid is unnecessary, but everyone will put their hand out for free money too.

There never was an official vote tally given by a responsible body for the annulled April vote. Mr. T just got up and claimed 16 million and his EC stayed quiet.

Even the BKK Post had a cartoon with the no vote on the winners podium blacked out and TRT on second with the hand held aloft. The TV ticker tape thingy cut off for the first time I can remember in a Thai election. It is no longer worth going over old ground too much but there were many questions over that election. Chang Noi covered some well. Then there was the voting booths positioned so that others could see how one voted especially with the tiny font no vote entry at the bottom so it would be easy to see by arm position who voted this way. Just as well it was annulled as it was nothing to do with democracy. One can only hope the next election is not such a farce. The only good that came from the April election was that the huge political party who were the only ones running in the farce spent a fortune buying votes and fixing things and then never got to cream the spending back.

[blaze]

Actually to make a disclaimer is a wise move. If it take 12 hours to drive from point A to point B during sunny weather, you can certainly expect it to take longer during a storm. If the Thaksin looks to make storm delays in the election then people should look at the cause and not the effect.

As for the 15 million votes the TRT received, I don’t dispute that. After all everyone should get what they pay for. It does not matter if it was a sack of rice, fertilizer, cash, or some buffalos given in payment. To be paid again to come to rallies in Bangkok, simply tells me that it conflicts with their personal unpaid views, but every view has a price in Thailand I guess. If it was their view to begin with then the need to get paid is unnecessary, but everyone will put their hand out for free money too.

There never was an official vote tally given by a responsible body for the annulled April vote. Mr. T just got up and claimed 16 million and his EC stayed quiet.

Even the BKK Post had a cartoon with the no vote on the winners podium blacked out and TRT on second with the hand held aloft. The TV ticker tape thingy cut off for the first time I can remember in a Thai election. It is no longer worth going over old ground too much but there were many questions over that election. Chang Noi covered some well. Then there was the voting booths positioned so that others could see how one voted especially with the tiny font no vote entry at the bottom so it would be easy to see by arm position who voted this way. Just as well it was annulled as it was nothing to do with democracy. One can only hope the next election is not such a farce. The only good that came from the April election was that the huge political party who were the only ones running in the farce spent a fortune buying votes and fixing things and then never got to cream the spending back.

Thaksin's policies and programs directed at the rural and poor in the country have been repeatedly labled 'populist'. Normally 'populism' refers to policies and programs that appeal to a wide voter base- normally- the working and peasant classes. Why did the workers and peasants reject Thaksin's policies? (Which obviously was the case IF in fact TRT would not have won the election without engaging in unparalleled vote buying and electoral fraud).

Were the programs NOT populist after all? Or would the Thai poor, unlike the poor in any other place on earth, reject programs which promise to put cash in their pocket?

[Plus]

The country is completely and utterly divided and in pieces.

I think that the country, if you mean the majority, the rural population, is not interested in any of that "freedom", "consitution", "rights" and whatever else PTV and anti-junta protesters make so much fuss about. Half of them have no idea why they need a constitution in the first place. These issues simply do not resonate.

If Thaksin is out of people's minds, they all, and I mean all, including opposing politicians, will quickly find a common ground and return to "business as usual".

If any serious changes occure it will be due to internal power play rather than popular demands, and I think the chance is close to zero anyway. Sonthi the general had enough of the "savior of the nation" stuff already, it's a thankless task, and the second coup will be the end of the road for him. Anyone else simply doesn't have enough allies to organise a coup.

Protesters will keep protesting just for the sake of it, they are simply drumming up the business at the moment.

And watch out for protesters who campaign for rejection of the constitution. These guys would do everything to postpone the elections and then blame the government for that.

The question "so we reject the constitution and then what?" either never enters their minds, or they are naive anarchists, or they hope Thaksin will come back and sort the generals out.

[hammered]

Actually to make a disclaimer is a wise move. If it take 12 hours to drive from point A to point B during sunny weather, you can certainly expect it to take longer during a storm. If the Thaksin looks to make storm delays in the election then people should look at the cause and not the effect.

As for the 15 million votes the TRT received, I don’t dispute that. After all everyone should get what they pay for. It does not matter if it was a sack of rice, fertilizer, cash, or some buffalos given in payment. To be paid again to come to rallies in Bangkok, simply tells me that it conflicts with their personal unpaid views, but every view has a price in Thailand I guess. If it was their view to begin with then the need to get paid is unnecessary, but everyone will put their hand out for free money too.

There never was an official vote tally given by a responsible body for the annulled April vote. Mr. T just got up and claimed 16 million and his EC stayed quiet.

Even the BKK Post had a cartoon with the no vote on the winners podium blacked out and TRT on second with the hand held aloft. The TV ticker tape thingy cut off for the first time I can remember in a Thai election. It is no longer worth going over old ground too much but there were many questions over that election. Chang Noi covered some well. Then there was the voting booths positioned so that others could see how one voted especially with the tiny font no vote entry at the bottom so it would be easy to see by arm position who voted this way. Just as well it was annulled as it was nothing to do with democracy. One can only hope the next election is not such a farce. The only good that came from the April election was that the huge political party who were the only ones running in the farce spent a fortune buying votes and fixing things and then never got to cream the spending back.

Thaksin's policies and programs directed at the rural and poor in the country have been repeatedly labled 'populist'. Normally 'populism' refers to policies and programs that appeal to a wide voter base- normally- the working and peasant classes. Why did the workers and peasants reject Thaksin's policies? (Which obviously was the case IF in fact TRT would not have won the election without engaging in unparalleled vote buying and electoral fraud).

Were the programs NOT populist after all? Or would the Thai poor, unlike the poor in any other place on earth, reject programs which promise to put cash in their pocket?

It s a bit of an academic debate as there were not oficial numbers anyway. However, one thing to remember is that a lot of the poor got further into debt under Mr. T. and the rich-poor gap never decreased. In many villages a lot of the populist rural schemes benefitted a small minority rather than all. The village headmen were usually included heavily in those who benefitted which brings me back to my point these are the ones who can deliver an election.

"We are all going to get into these trucks and go down to the voting station and vote for TRT". "We must all remember to vote TRT on April 2". Just a couple of quotes by village headmen I know of. Anyway it is all academic and in the past so I'll leave it there.

[hammered]

The country is completely and utterly divided and in pieces.

I think that the country, if you mean the majority, the rural population, is not interested in any of that "freedom", "consitution", "rights" and whatever else PTV and anti-junta protesters make so much fuss about. Half of them have no idea why they need a constitution in the first place. These issues simply do not resonate.

If Thaksin is out of people's minds, they all, and I mean all, including opposing politicians, will quickly find a common ground and return to "business as usual".

If any serious changes occure it will be due to internal power play rather than popular demands, and I think the chance is close to zero anyway. Sonthi the general had enough of the "savior of the nation" stuff already, it's a thankless task, and the second coup will be the end of the road for him. Anyone else simply doesn't have enough allies to organise a coup.

Protesters will keep protesting just for the sake of it, they are simply drumming up the business at the moment.

And watch out for protesters who campaign for rejection of the constitution. These guys would do everything to postpone the elections and then blame the government for that.

The question "so we reject the constitution and then what?" either never enters their minds, or they are naive anarchists, or they hope Thaksin will come back and sort the generals out.

The way Thailand is, the rural poor depend on who is going to help them out when they have problems. This can be by local politicians or influential ones or by government. Whoever controls these networks has power. This has happened before Mr. Thaksin during Mr. Thaksin and probably after Mr. Thaksin. It is a hard life and those that can provide assistance cannot be shunned.

I wouldnt rule out that some TRT people dont still control some of these local networks. However, when I was recently in the north the villages I visited no longer had a single TRT poster up - they used to be commonplace. There was not a single TRT jacket on display - they used to be worn by many. A lot of bad words were spoken about Mr. T and the China FTA. The local MP had been one of the first to jump TRT ship. This MP was always able to bring government money to the people whether in TRT or another party. He has a large network of people who work and canvass for him and who can build up or bring down any party leader by the word they spread. Blaming poor prices for crops on the China FTA hits Mr. T. No doubt TRT cadres would blame something else. The people will almost certainly vote for this local MP whatever party he joins at the next election.

[blaze]

Actually to make a disclaimer is a wise move. If it take 12 hours to drive from point A to point B during sunny weather, you can certainly expect it to take longer during a storm. If the Thaksin looks to make storm delays in the election then people should look at the cause and not the effect.

As for the 15 million votes the TRT received, I don’t dispute that. After all everyone should get what they pay for. It does not matter if it was a sack of rice, fertilizer, cash, or some buffalos given in payment. To be paid again to come to rallies in Bangkok, simply tells me that it conflicts with their personal unpaid views, but every view has a price in Thailand I guess. If it was their view to begin with then the need to get paid is unnecessary, but everyone will put their hand out for free money too.

There never was an official vote tally given by a responsible body for the annulled April vote. Mr. T just got up and claimed 16 million and his EC stayed quiet.

Even the BKK Post had a cartoon with the no vote on the winners podium blacked out and TRT on second with the hand held aloft. The TV ticker tape thingy cut off for the first time I can remember in a Thai election. It is no longer worth going over old ground too much but there were many questions over that election. Chang Noi covered some well. Then there was the voting booths positioned so that others could see how one voted especially with the tiny font no vote entry at the bottom so it would be easy to see by arm position who voted this way. Just as well it was annulled as it was nothing to do with democracy. One can only hope the next election is not such a farce. The only good that came from the April election was that the huge political party who were the only ones running in the farce spent a fortune buying votes and fixing things and then never got to cream the spending back.

Thaksin's policies and programs directed at the rural and poor in the country have been repeatedly labled 'populist'. Normally 'populism' refers to policies and programs that appeal to a wide voter base- normally- the working and peasant classes. Why did the workers and peasants reject Thaksin's policies? (Which obviously was the case IF in fact TRT would not have won the election without engaging in unparalleled vote buying and electoral fraud).

Were the programs NOT populist after all? Or would the Thai poor, unlike the poor in any other place on earth, reject programs which promise to put cash in their pocket?

It s a bit of an academic debate as there were not oficial numbers anyway. However, one thing to remember is that a lot of the poor got further into debt under Mr. T. and the rich-poor gap never decreased. In many villages a lot of the populist rural schemes benefitted a small minority rather than all. The village headmen were usually included heavily in those who benefitted which brings me back to my point these are the ones who can deliver an election.

"We are all going to get into these trucks and go down to the voting station and vote for TRT". "We must all remember to vote TRT on April 2". Just a couple of quotes by village headmen I know of. Anyway it is all academic and in the past so I'll leave it there.

I don't think these questions are merely academic at all. If the vote buying was as rampant when the Thais were offered relatively clear political platforms as it was, during the Banharn years- that bodes very unfavorably for the future of electoral politics in Thailand.

Whether or not the populist policies worked is beside the point in the context of the questions I raised: it was whether or not populist policies have an appeal in Thailand.

It is not unheard of that the poor will vote against their own best financial interest- eg, the US- and that may occur also in Thailand- I don't know- but if they had to be bought- or only supported TRT because they were ordered to by kamnans- then this would seem to be the case.

Either that or the policies- including micro credit schemes- don't have any appeal here.

I think that some serious analysis is in order- not village gossip- but- rather- serious academic (non-partisan) analysis of the reasons the poor voted for Thaksin. Certainly any political party seeking to court the vote of the poor must have some understanding of how to get that vote.

And to tie this in with the thread title- if the allegations of unparalleled vote buying are wrong- and that in fact the poor DID vote in what they perceived to be their best interests- emergency rule might become the order of the day for a long time.

Edited April 18, 2007 by blaze

[ando]

Its pretty much come down to a battle between the military, the miniscule, but very vocal PAD group and the vast majority of voters in the country. I do hope democracy succeeds. But then again the majority of voters dont have the ability to take over government with tanks and guns or to mount substantial protests in the countries capital.

One should ask the question in a democracy of how street protests by 100,00 city people should over-rule the wishes of 15 million voters.

[Plus]

We don't know what the wishes of those 15 million people were. We know what they have been told to wish, which is not the same.

In tightly knit communities in rural Thailand policy platforms are just icing on the cake.

"You have to vote for Thaksin, and you will feel good too - he cares about people". Presented this way it sells itself and reduces expenses on vote buying. All TRT had to do is grease the canvassing machine.

All Thaksin did was to use business approach to politics.

Every vote is a sale, every voter is a customer. You need clever marketing, capable sales force, convincing advertising (policies), and no competitors.

After you've taken care of business you can enjoy the benefits - twists the laws here and there, indulge in little corruption - whatever you fancy, being on top of the world.

The problem was that getting on top is not the end, it's only the beginning, and there were plenty of "old hands" who've seen it all and were not impressed by Thaksin's rise and wanted him to serve the country rather than himself. But he is simply not that kind of a man, he's a businessman, not a leader, he lives to enjoy, not to sacrifice, so he cracked.

[blaze]

Every vote is a sale, every voter is a customer. You need clever marketing, capable sales force, convincing advertising (policies), and no competitors.

With that statement, you have summed up the nature of party politics in all modern democracies. And the alternative is....?

[LaoPo]

Every vote is a sale, every voter is a customer. You need clever marketing, capable sales force, convincing advertising (policies), and no competitors.

With that statement, you have summed up the nature of party politics in all modern democracies. And the alternative is....?

Simple:

Dictatorship

LaoPo

[Jai Dee]

NSC ready to deal with demonstrations after Songkran

Secretary-General of the National Security Council (NSC) affirms NSC is ready to deal with demonstrations after the Songkran Festival. He also believes that violence will not occur.

NSC Secretary-General Prakit Prachonpajaniug (ประกิจ ประจนปัจจนึก) reveals that NSC is monitoring movements of various political groups which intensions to stage rallies after the Songkran holiday. Mr Prakit says the rallies would not escalate as they occur during the same period with the national merit-making for His Majesty the King.

As for violent situations in Narathiwat Province, Mr Prakit says the residents should cooperate with the authority in outlining measures to tackle violent situations. The secretary-general declines to give opinions on the appointment of a deputy prime minister overseeing security issues.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 April 2007

[Jai Dee]

CNS Chairman reveals that a particular group has intentions to defame CNS

The Chairman of the Council for National Security (CNS) Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkrin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน) indicates there is a group trying to defame the CNS.

Gen. Sonthi also denies news claiming that his trip to England is to meet with the ex-PM Thaksin Shinnawatra. Meanwhile, he believes that there is no hidden agenda between Secretary-General to the Council for National Security (CNS) Winai Patthiyakul (วินัย ภัททิยะกุล) and the deposed PM.

In addition, Gen. Sonthi has assigned officials to seek intelligence related to rallies and to provide assistance to people facing difficulties.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 April 2007