Visa denied, exempt as an alternative?

[Kerouacaurus]

Hello there,

 

I've tried to research this for a while and I've seen some people having the same question but I was incapable of finding a response to this question that bothers me a bit, so just in case there was a similar thread in the past, I would be grateful if you could direct me to it.

 

Essentially, my question is, if I do a border run, say, from Laos to Thailand, and I fail to acquire a tourist visa in Laos, would this be a problem to get a 30-day exempt waiver? I know that the rules state that tourists may get up to 2 visa exempt entries via border crossing, but are there any additional conditions, such as denied visa or the history of staying in Thailand? Would they consider it at the border to decide whether to allow you an exempt?

 

I'm worried about it slightly, since I feel I've been staying in Thailand pretty long and the rules are tightening on tourists spending too much time in Thailand. I was lucky enough to have just one actual visa run so far and I'm hoping it would work one more time. This is my history:

 

2019 January: 15 days visa on arrival at Suvarnabhumi, then left Thailand back to Europe for 2 months.

2019 April 1st to June 24th: entry at Suvarnabhumi, tourist visa obtained in Europe + 30-day extension, left Thailand to Europe for 1 month.

2019 August 1st to September 29th: exempt at Suvarnabhumi + extension, then my first visa run follows.

2019 September 29th to October 5th: spent a week in Laos and obtained a TV for 60 days.

2019 December 2nd: planning an extension till January.

2020 January: another border run and an attempt to get a new TV at the same consulate in Laos.

 

This is where I'm slightly worried, I've heard that usually a maximum of 3 visas might be obtained from the same consulate. I'm planning to go to Vientiane again, as a border run and Vientiane seems to be the best option from what I know. Since it'd be my second visa, I believe it should be okay, but maybe I'm wrong considering my history here. That's why I'm wondering, in case I get denied visa in Vientiane, would I have a problem to get back via border on exempt? Or would they deny me stating that I've 'been trying to live here on TVs'? I'm pretty sure one might get denied an exempt at the airport, but I'm not sure whether the same applies for the border run.

 

Sorry for being too inconsistent, just to summarize:

 

1. Does the rule of a maximum 3 TVs still apply for the same consulate or do they take into account your overall history?

2. For my history, how likely am I to not obtain a new TV in Laos again?

3. In case TV is not issued, would I have a problem to get an exempt at the border?

4. In general, does an exempt at the border depend on history or just obeys the 'twice in a calendar year' rule neglecting the previous stays?

5. If everything fails: visa denied, exempt denied, is it worth taking a risk to choose a different entry point or would one expect the same outcome? And how long would you typically need to wait to try to return?

6. Finally, I've heard the stories about red/blue stamps after the 3rd visa stating that the foreigner might be unable to get a visa in the future. Does this apply just for a particular consulate? If not, how would people expect to get a new TV again excluding the possibility of a new passport, as I'm not sure it works anymore?

 

I'm sorry if it became quite lengthy, but I would truly appreciate your opinions regarding these questions and my personal data. Thank you!

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kerouacaurus

[SteveK]

Hate to say this but with all that history in the last year alone, you are sailing close to the wind.  You will probably then struggle to be allowed entry with another tourist visa or without. Are you eligible for a non-O?

Edited November 26, 2019 by SteveK

[Kerouacaurus]

Just now, SteveK said:

Hate to say this but with all that history in the last year alone, you are sailing close to the wind. If your December entry is allowed, you will have had 5 entries in 2019 on tourist visas and VE entries. You would then struggle to be allowed entry with another tourist visa or without. Are you eligible for a non-O?

Thanks for your opinion, Steve. I think it's risky as well. I'm just 26 currently, the only normal visa opportunity for me is essentially an elite visa that I would definitely not be able to afford at this time, I've tried to research opportunities regarding this.

[BritTim]

All the evidence to date suggests that entering from Vientiane at Nong Khai or Mukdahan from Savannakhet on a visa exempt entry is fine (regardless of prior history) if you have not used two visa exempt entries by land in the current calendar year. What you should not even think of doing for a long time is trying to fly in to Thailand for a visa exempt entry.

[DrJack54]

If you haven't used both your 2 visa exempt at border then I would go that way. As for setv I think it's 2 max now for some embassies and maybe one at PP.

As for flying in ve might be chance at CNX. Wouldn't like your chances at Bangkok airports. 

I'm not going to be rude and ask how you support yourself as that's your business not Thai forum. I only make the point that Thai imm would look at you note your very young man and spending Lot of time in los. Is he working?

Think it's getting to seat of pants now as to how long you can continue to stay. On positive note it's soon new calendar year and you get 2 more border entries ve. Both of which can be extended

[Kerouacaurus]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

All the evidence to date suggests that entering from Vientiane at Nong Khai or Mukdahan from Savannakhet on a visa exempt entry is fine (regardless of prior history) if you have not used two visa exempt entries by land in the current calendar year. What you should not even think of doing for a long time is trying to fly in to Thailand for a visa exempt entry.

That's exactly what I think as well, I'm aware of the problems people face for VE at the airports here, since I didn't use any border VE entries at all so far, so it would potentially be my first VE in the next calendar year, thanks for your post!

[Kerouacaurus]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

If you haven't used both your 2 visa exempt at border then I would go that way. As for setv I think it's 2 max now for some embassies and maybe one at PP.

As for flying in ve might be chance at CNX. Wouldn't like your chances at Bangkok airports. 

I'm not going to be rude and ask how you support yourself as that's your business not Thai forum. I only make the point that Thai imm would look at you note your very young man and spending Lot of time in los. Is he working?

Think it's getting to seat of pants now as to how long you can continue to stay. On positive note it's soon new calendar year and you get 2 more border entries ve. Both of which can be extended

Thanks! I'm only thinking of border crossing rather than flying in just to maximize chances of getting in, and in case I fail, just to be able to go back rather than be forced to get a flight ticket back.

I'm pretty sure it won't work anymore the next time I attempt something like this, I would just love to spend 2 or 3 more months here. By the way, do you by chance have an estimate when (if at all) the previous history gets 'reset'? That is, if I spend 2 months back home or elsewhere in Asia, would my history from the previous year matter?

[SteveK]

Why bother scratching around in the dirt desperately trying to find a way to get into the country? If you don't have any real reason to be in Thailand and therefore cannot qualify for a long term visa, you'll be much better off visiting the cheaper, neighboring countries, surely? No visa hassles too.

 

If it's because of a girl, just marry her and get a non-O.

Edited November 26, 2019 by SteveK

[tabarin]

I am sure you can easily find your way with some luck, new year grants you 2x border runs again as well, you could get a TV from another country too (instead of Laos).
Question is why you would want to run around, waste a lot of time and money for just 30-60 days more each time, without a real reason to be in Thailand.

If you have nothing that keeps you here, you are better off spending some time elsewhere instead. Why make it so difficult? Just spend some time in Bali or Vietnam.
You do not have a future in Thailand on the long run anyway, unless you marry or buy the elite visa (I would advice neither). Get real.

Edited November 26, 2019 by tabarin

[Kerouacaurus]

3 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Why bother scratching around in the dirt desperately trying to find a way to get into the country? If you don't have any real reason to be in Thailand and therefore cannot qualify for a long term visa, you'll be much better off visiting the cheaper, neighboring countries, surely? No visa hassles too.

 

If it's because of a girl, just marry her and get a non-O.

Yeah, Steve, it's partially due to a girl, another reason is more personal, I just felt pretty recovered emotionally here, I have only traveled a lot in Europe, and I loved to stay here much more than anywhere else. I thought of going to some country around as well, but I'm slightly too worried to leave my comfort zone and the friends I have here, I'm not sure whether I'll like the new place. But I am aware that sooner or later I'll have to make that decision.

[Kerouacaurus]

1 minute ago, tabarin said:

I am sure you can easily find your way with some luck, new year grants you 2x border runs again as well, you could get a TV from another country too (instead of Laos).
Question is why you would want to run around, waste a lot of time and money for just 30-60 days more each time, without a real reason to be in Thailand.

If you have nothing that keeps you here, you are better off spending some time elsewhere instead. Why make it so difficult? Just spend some time in Bali or Vietnam.
You do not have a future in Thailand on the long run anyway, unless you marry or buy the elite visa (I would advice neither). Get real.

Makes sense, thanks. It's indeed a waste in terms of money regarding all the runs and visa stuff, but I personally feel it's worth it regarding the friends I have here. Concerning the future, I'm not aware what will happen and whether I'll build it here or not, I just feel like I'd need a bit more time and then maybe find another solution if I wish to stay here longer. I appreciate your thoughts and I understand, I was just interested in formalities that you answered as well. I don't want to go too deep into the reasons.

[SteveK]

10 minutes ago, Kerouacaurus said:

Yeah, Steve, it's partially due to a girl, another reason is more personal, I just felt pretty recovered emotionally here, I have only traveled a lot in Europe, and I loved to stay here much more than anywhere else. I thought of going to some country around as well, but I'm slightly too worried to leave my comfort zone and the friends I have here, I'm not sure whether I'll like the new place. But I am aware that sooner or later I'll have to make that decision.

Once you get denied entry then you'll be forced to go outside of your comfort zone. If I were you I would try going to Vietnam, I suspect you'll have just as much fun there.

[BritTim]

22 minutes ago, Kerouacaurus said:

By the way, do you by chance have an estimate when (if at all) the previous history gets 'reset'? That is, if I spend 2 months back home or elsewhere in Asia, would my history from the previous year matter?

The rules on how your prior history affects entry as a tourist are all unofficial. They also vary depending on where you are entering Thailand. At the strict entry points, two months away after previously spending a long, almost continuous, period in Thailand will not help. What "almost continuous" and "long period" mean is very much immigration official dependent.

[Kerouacaurus]

2 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Once you get denied entry then you'll be forced to go outside of your comfort zone. If I were you I would try going to Vietnam, I suspect you'll have just as much fun there.

Yeah. The reason why I posted this thread was just to evaluate my chances, I feel like I had a bit enough but still would like to spend the 3 upcoming months in Thailand. Thanks for a suggestion too. Glad to meet good people on here with logical arguments, no hate.

[Kerouacaurus]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The rules on how your prior history affects entry as a tourist are all unofficial. They also vary depending on where you are entering Thailand. At the strict entry points, two months away after previously spending a long, almost continuous, period in Thailand will not help. What "almost continuous" and "long period" mean is very much immigration official dependent.

Right, so it all becomes subjective and a matter of luck, just as I expected, I appreciate for clearing it up.

[tabarin]

Even it is personal reasons, ''friends'' or a girl, you better cut that off now as it is senseless for the long run anyway. 
Basically you are delaying execution this way.

And if you are really one of the few that is willing to do all to live here, better to go back home and start saving up a fat buffer.
The sooner you are loaded, the sooner you have a fair chance on coming back + staying X years.

I know only a few who are still under 30 like me, and living here for 7+ years, it ain't easy, certainly not as a newbie / today.

Edited November 26, 2019 by tabarin

[DrJack54]

32 minutes ago, Kerouacaurus said:

Thanks! I'm only thinking of border crossing rather than flying in just to maximize chances of getting in, and in case I fail, just to be able to go back rather than be forced to get a flight ticket back.

I'm pretty sure it won't work anymore the next time I attempt something like this, I would just love to spend 2 or 3 more months here. By the way, do you by chance have an estimate when (if at all) the previous history gets 'reset'? That is, if I spend 2 months back home or elsewhere in Asia, would my history from the previous year matter?

History is not reset. However note that what helps is not having consistent stay in los with brief periods out.

If I was young and could not obtain Elite Visa, I would spend my time in se Asia.

3 months in Thailand, 2 or 3 in Vietnam along with few others. Along lines of what Steve suggested. I actually am in Saigon every month. It's a very chilled joint. Lot of young folk there. Even having a partner here in los doesn't mean you need to live Thailand all the time. 

[Kerouacaurus]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

History is not reset. However note that what helps is not having consistent stay in los with brief periods out.

If I was young and could not obtain Elite Visa, I would spend my time in se Asia.

3 months in Thailand, 2 or 3 in Vietnam along with few others. Along lines of what Steve suggested. I actually am in Saigon every month. It's a very chilled joint. Lot of young folk there. Even having a partner here in los doesn't mean you need to live Thailand all the time. 

Glad to hear heads up. I'm just a newbie in Southeast Asia, I think what puts me off is the fact that Vientiane was so freaking depressing when I spent just a week there which sort of makes me scared to explore other countries around more and leave Thailand, I feel like it'd be very different and I wouldn't like it as much if you know what I mean. However, I see that lots of people talk positively about Vietnam, so it might be a good option for someone wishing to stay in Asia.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Kerouacaurus said:

Glad to hear heads up. I'm just a newbie in Southeast Asia, I think what puts me off is the fact that Vientiane was so freaking depressing when I spent just a week there which sort of makes me scared to explore other countries around more and leave Thailand, I feel like it'd be very different and I wouldn't like it as much if you know what I mean. However, I see that lots of people talk positively about Vietnam, so it might be a good option for someone wishing to stay in Asia.

I think you perhaps got off to a bad start in Vietnam. Same as you I feel very chilled here in los. Lots of older guys in most cities (for me) and very easy to make friends. However I have made good younger friends in los and easy to do that in Saigon, Hanoi and in-between. Take your time. Think it's a better alternative that trying trying to stay ongoing in Thailand. With bit of moving in/out for longer stays outside of los you could manage 6+ months/yr in los easily.

[Kerouacaurus]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I think you perhaps got off to a bad start in Vietnam. Same as you I feel very chilled here in los. Lots of older guys in most cities (for me) and very easy to make friends. However I have made good younger friends in los and easy to do that in Saigon, Hanoi and in-between. Take your time. Think it's a better alternative that trying trying to stay ongoing in Thailand. With bit of moving in/out for longer stays outside of los you could manage 6+ months/yr in los easily.

I think the similarity of Vientiane/Vietnam was a bit confusing, sorry, I meant I felt that way in Vientiane, Laos, I haven't been to Vietnam yet, but I look forward to it!

[buick]

definitely try vietnam.  danang is great.  air asia serves the route via DMK.  back in the 08/09 timeframe, there were rumors about a new rule limiting stays in thailand to 6 months a year or something like that.  the rule didn't last long and i'm not sure it was ever enforced.  but i immediately set up a second residence in danang.  stay there about 5 weeks, then do 4 weeks in thailand, then repeat.  get a visa in saigon once a year if you want to stay 3 months in thailand but then you'll have to spend a longer period in vietnam.  i stayed in a hotel, it was cheap.  you should give it a try.  i also had a GF at the time, but she wasn't 'marriage material'. 

[Kerouacaurus]

1 minute ago, buick said:

definitely try vietnam.  danang is great.  air asia serves the route via DMK.  back in the 08/09 timeframe, there were rumors about a new rule limiting stays in thailand to 6 months a year or something like that.  the rule didn't last long and i'm not sure it was ever enforced.  but i immediately set up a second residence in danang.  stay there about 5 weeks, then do 4 weeks in thailand, then repeat.  get a visa in saigon once a year if you want to stay 3 months in thailand but then you'll have to spend a longer period in vietnam.  i stayed in a hotel, it was cheap.  you should give it a try.  i also had a GF at the time, but she wasn't 'marriage material'. 

That's awesome, thanks for another suggestion. It's pretty cool how people shared more information about their favorite places here in the region which makes me feel less pressurized about coming back and stay in Thailand.

[SteveK]

I started visiting Thailand in my twenties. No visa hassles. Double the exchange rate compared to today. If I knew then what I know now I would have invested all that time in Vietnam and would probably have a decent level of spoken Vietnamese by now. Everything is easy with hindsight. Unfortunately I am married to a Thai lady now so I can't just up and leave. At your age I would steer clear of Thailand. They only want you here if you are loaded, if you get involved with a local girl, heartbreak will surely ensue.

[Kerouacaurus]

Just now, SteveK said:

I started visiting Thailand in my twenties. No visa hassles. Double the exchange rate compared to today. If I knew then what I know now I would have invested all that time in Vietnam and would probably have a decent level of spoken Vietnamese by now. Everything is easy with hindsight. Unfortunately I am married to a Thai lady now so I can't just up and leave. At your age I would steer clear of Thailand. They only want you here if you are loaded, if you get involved with a local girl, heartbreak will surely ensue.

Steve, mind me asking why still Vietnam? If you were able to create a family here (supposedly), why would you consider this unfortunate? I think Vietnam would be fine, just hard to realize that there might be such a huge difference between Thailand and Vietnam.

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, Kerouacaurus said:

I think the similarity of Vientiane/Vietnam was a bit confusing, sorry, I meant I felt that way in Vientiane, Laos, I haven't been to Vietnam yet, but I look forward to it!

Ha! Now I understand you. Some people like Laos. Personally I prob won't be back. Vientiane just made me home sick for anywhere but there and Luang Prabang bit better, but could never stay longer than a week. I was surprised when you felt Vietnam depressing as I find it completely refreshing. Some folk love Cambodia. Personally wouldn't bother with free ticket. To each their own.

[Kerouacaurus]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Ha! Now I understand you. Some people like Laos. Personally I prob won't be back. Vientiane just made me home sick for anywhere but there and Luang Prabang bit better, but could never stay longer than a week. I was surprised when you felt Vietnam depressing as I find it completely refreshing. Some folk love Cambodia. Personally wouldn't bother with free ticket. To each their own.

I agree for Laos completely, I thought I'd at least feel comfortable there, but it was the first place I visited in my life that made me wish come back anywhere else that much.

[buick]

as i recall, danang had a nice weather alternative to bangkok (where i lived then and now).  in danang, it got a little rainy and 'cold' in dec/jan but that was a great time to come to bangkok.  then, as bangkok heated up in mar/apr, the heat was more tolerable in danang (but about the same in saigon).

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, buick said:

definitely try vietnam.  danang is great.  air asia serves the route via DMK.  back in the 08/09 timeframe, there were rumors about a new rule limiting stays in thailand to 6 months a year or something like that.  the rule didn't last long and i'm not sure it was ever enforced.  but i immediately set up a second residence in danang.  stay there about 5 weeks, then do 4 weeks in thailand, then repeat.  get a visa in saigon once a year if you want to stay 3 months in thailand but then you'll have to spend a longer period in vietnam.  i stayed in a hotel, it was cheap.  you should give it a try.  i also had a GF at the time, but she wasn't 'marriage material'. 

Good advice. As I go to Saigon every month I get four 3 month multi entry per year. That's ~70 USD a pop. $270 a year with unlimited entries no reports or extensions etc. 

Downside is Saigon green 500ml is 15-20k dong. Not good for healthy lifestyle.

[moontang]

Why not get an ED visa?

[bbi1]

26 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Unfortunately I am married to a Thai lady now so I can't just up and leave. At your age I would steer clear of Thailand. They only want you here if you are loaded, if you get involved with a local girl, heartbreak will surely ensue.

Why do you say that when you are currently married to a Thai lady?