'Poison' of anti-Semitism has taken root in UK's Labour - Chief Rabbi

[nkg]

I wonder where Number 6 went? Perhaps he needed a Number 2 ...

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

That may be true, but there is quite a thin line between anti-zionist and anti-semite. Ken Livingstone crossed that line and lost his job.

 

That's because among other things, 'Red Ken' was and still is an anti-semite?

 

The average Joe can't even properly articulate what racism is and you only have to see some of the ill-informed rants that ensue on these forum pages when someone throws down the 'racist' farang card to appreciate that depth of ignorance.

 

It serves the Zionist narrative that the great unwashed stays relatively uneducated in this business. If you look at the front pages of today's UK MSM you will see that Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis's UK electoral 'intervention' has already totally submerged in the white noise of another London Bridge terror attack, the somewhat incomplete C4 environmental debate and the wild swings of the pre-election polls and how that impacts the Tories and NOT Labour.

 

Job done. Box checked. Next?

Edited November 30, 2019 by NanLaew

[melvinmelvin]

34 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

That's because among other things, 'Red Ken' was and still is an anti-semite?

 

The average Joe can't even properly articulate what racism is and you only have to see some of the ill-informed rants that ensue on these forum pages when someone throws down the 'racist' farang card to appreciate that depth of ignorance.

 

It serves the Zionist narrative that the great unwashed stays relatively uneducated in this business. If you look at the front pages of today's UK MSM you will see that Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis's UK electoral 'intervention' has already totally submerged in the white noise of another London Bridge terror attack, the somewhat incomplete C4 environmental debate and the wild swings of the pre-election polls and how that impacts the Tories and NOT Labour.

 

Job done. Box checked. Next?

 

Good thing Mirvis is off the front pages, what an a-hole

terrible when relig. leaders use their position to skew normal runups to elections

well, they are free to express their opinions, so are others when the fancy banging jewish leaders on their heads

that is not anti-semitic by the way

 

 

[nkg]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Good thing Mirvis is off the front pages, what an a-hole

terrible when relig. leaders use their position to skew normal runups to elections

well, they are free to express their opinions, so are others when the fancy banging jewish leaders on their heads

that is not anti-semitic by the way

 

 

 

Religious leaders of other religions are genuinely welcome to make their case.

 

As a Norwegian, why are you so excited about the UK's General Election? Some posters might mistake you as being British, so it would be useful for you to explain why the UK General Election means so much to you. Thank you my Norwegian friend.

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, nkg said:

 

Well, I go on to mention it later on:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47400029

 

 

But apparently Luciana Berger and Tom Watson are liars.

More Bolshevik propaganda. The *antisemitism* is not mentioned in either article it's just blah blah allegations blah blah.

 

Maybe you can please direct me to the incidents (plural) and quotes (numerous) so as it would amount to a record of the allegations.

 

[Number 6]

2 hours ago, nkg said:

I wonder where Number 6 went? Perhaps he needed a Number 2 ...

Sorry, have a life.

 

Now...back to my life.

[melvinmelvin]

7 hours ago, nkg said:

 

Religious leaders of other religions are genuinely welcome to make their case.

 

As a Norwegian, why are you so excited about the UK's General Election? Some posters might mistake you as being British, so it would be useful for you to explain why the UK General Election means so much to you. Thank you my Norwegian friend.

well, not at all sure about the   genuinely

 

to make sure that posters are not confused you should make sure that you follow the same threads that I follow

and everytime I make a comment you should clarify to the lot that I am not British

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

That's because among other things, 'Red Ken' was and still is an anti-semite?

 

The average Joe can't even properly articulate what racism is and you only have to see some of the ill-informed rants that ensue on these forum pages when someone throws down the 'racist' farang card to appreciate that depth of ignorance.

I know Ken quite well and he is not anti-Jew. He has criticized Israel however. Perhaps that's your point.

Where does this 'racism' stuff fit in with a religion; any religion?

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I know Ken quite well and he is not anti-Jew. He has criticized Israel however. Perhaps that's your point.

Where does this 'racism' stuff fit in with a religion; any religion?

Are you serious? It fits in quite well with Jews because Jews are an ETHNORELIGIOUS group. A Jewish person doesn't need to be the slightest bit religious to be a Jew. This is basic. 

 

A good example of this other than the obvious one is that when Jews of Spain were murdered expelled or forced to convert the converts were still poorly treated. Definitely a type of racism. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jingthing

[owl sees all]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Are you serious? It fits in quite well with Jews because Jews are an ETHNORELIGIOUS group. A Jewish person doesn't need to be the slightest bit religious to be a Jew. This is basic. 

 

A good example of this other than the obvious one is that when Jews of Spain were murdered expelled or forced to convert the converts were still poorly treated. Definitely a type of racism. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

 

I don't agree Jingthing. A child comes into this world free of nonsense like religion. 

[toast1]

>I know Ken quite well and he is not anti-Jew. He has criticized Israel however. Perhaps that's your point.

 Red Ken didn't criticise Israel, he spent his life supporting, protecting and promoting those who wish to kill Jews and destroy their country.

 

Here is the Jew blood libel 'Perhaps that's your point'.

 

That Jews aren't really worried about racism, but are lying to protect Israel. Its all a lie.

 

That the Chief Rabbi and all the other Jews who have complained are involved in a sneaky, deceitful conspiracy against the British people. 

 

Here you see that Jews are not normal, British citizens with worries, but the enemy who can't be trusted.

 

This is stated constantly here.

You don't have to look far to see how many on the Left view Jews.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I don't agree Jingthing. A child comes into this world free of nonsense like religion. 

More like you are in denial of the facts about the history of the Jewish people. Aggressively so. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, toast1 said:

>I know Ken quite well and he is not anti-Jew. He has criticized Israel however. Perhaps that's your point.

 Red Ken didn't criticise Israel, he spent his life supporting, protecting and promoting those who wish to kill Jews and destroy their country.

 

Here is the Jew blood libel 'Perhaps that's your point'.

 

That Jews aren't really worried about racism, but are lying to protect Israel. Its all a lie.

 

That the Chief Rabbi and all the other Jews who have complained are involved in a sneaky, deceitful conspiracy against the British people. 

 

Here you see that Jews are not normal, British citizens with worries, but the enemy who can't be trusted.

 

This is stated constantly here.

You don't have to look far to see how many on the Left view Jews.

 

 

 

 

 

Not only the left. 

[owl sees all]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More like you are in denial of the facts about the history of the Jewish people. Aggressively so. 

Aggressively!!??

 

It's just a religion. Good. bad and ugly in all of them.

 

Rowan Atkinson did say they were the chosen people in that sketch about the devil.

Edited November 30, 2019 by owl sees all
inserted ??

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, toast1 said:

>I know Ken quite well and he is not anti-Jew. He has criticized Israel however. Perhaps that's your point.

 Red Ken didn't criticise Israel, he spent his life supporting, protecting and promoting those who wish to kill Jews and destroy their country.

 

Here is the Jew blood libel 'Perhaps that's your point'.

 

That Jews aren't really worried about racism, but are lying to protect Israel. Its all a lie.

 

That the Chief Rabbi and all the other Jews who have complained are involved in a sneaky, deceitful conspiracy against the British people. 

 

Here you see that Jews are not normal, British citizens with worries, but the enemy who can't be trusted.

 

This is stated constantly here.

You don't have to look far to see how many on the Left view Jews.

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, allegations without substantiating quotes.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Aggressively!!??

 

It's just a religion. Good. bad and ugly in all of them.

 

Rowan Atkinson did say they were the chosen people in that sketch about the devil.

I agree with much of what you say in this thread but to be a Jew is absolutely not just a statement of religion.

 

That said, I’m not supportive of Jingjing’s assertion that your views are aggressively expressed.

 

I believe Jingjing is an American (apologies if I am wrong) and while of course nationality has no bearing on the value of comments, it ought to be understood that open criticism of Israel and/or Zionism is a completely different matter in the UK to what it might be in the US.

 

I have a great deal of respect for both your and Jingjing’s comments on a range of issues and therefore suggest you both acknowledge each other’s vehement opposition to racism and Anti-semitism while accepting you might have differing views on Zionism and the Palestine/Israel conflict.

 

I mention racism in the same sentence because many here are tolerant of racism and other forms of hatred while planting a flag in their position against Anti-semitism (And Please I do not include either you or Jingjing amongst these).

Edited November 30, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Aggressively!!??

 

It's just a religion. Good. bad and ugly in all of them.

 

Rowan Atkinson did say they were the chosen people in that sketch about the devil.

No!

Jewish is not only a religion. 

That is a FACT.

[owl sees all]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No!

Jewish is not only a religion. 

That is a FACT.

Nonsense!

 

I reckon I know more about racism on this forum than most. Jews are simply not a race.

[elliss]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:53 PM, torturedsole said:

Labour are finished in their present form so no worries there.  

 

     It is with great regret , i have to agree .

 

 

          

Edited November 30, 2019 by elliss

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Nonsense!

 

I reckon I know more about racism on this forum than most. Jews are simply not a race.

I never said Jews were a race. Actually race doesn't exist as an anthropological construct but racism is rampant throughout humanity. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jingthing

[melvinmelvin]

The terms Jew and Jewish are not very good descriptive terms and lead to many misunderstandings.

 

The terms are used for people practicing a certain religion regardless of (racial) heritage

and also used for describing people of a certain (racial) heritage regardless of religion

 

you have born and bred jocks that are Jews and you have Jews that are Buddhists

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

The terms Jew and Jewish are not very good descriptive terms and lead to many misunderstandings.

 

The terms are used for people practicing a certain religion regardless of (racial) heritage

and also used for describing people of a certain (racial) heritage regardless of religion

 

you have born and bred jocks that are Jews and you have Jews that are Buddhists

Ethnicity. Not race. Also of course there is more than one ethnicity associated with the Jewish people. Again the easiest way to explain this is ethnoreligious group.

 

An example is presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg. He has a Jewish name and ethnicity but is not observant. Yet he is identified as a Jewish person. 

[Yinn]

On 11/26/2019 at 9:01 PM, Jingthing said:

Jews face hatred from the left and the right. Possibly in the UK now the bigger problem is from the left. In the US the bigger problem now is from the right although there are some troubling signs of increase on the left. 

 

Why?

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Ethnicity. Not race. Also of course there is more than one ethnicity associated with the Jewish people. Again the easiest way to explain this is ethnoreligious group.

 

An example is presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg. He has a Jewish name and ethnicity but is not observant. Yet he is identified as a Jewish person. 

race ethnicity, have it your way as Burger King says, I am comfortable with both terms

ethnicity is OK for me

 

at any rate as we say in Yorkshire;

 

with your easiest way to explain term ethnoreligious group

how would you classify hopeful Bloomberg and the jocks in my example above

and the Buddhists in my example ?

 

note,

not trying to be difficult or oppose you, just curious

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by melvinmelvin

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

race ethnicity, have it your way as Burger King says, I am comfortable with both terms

ethnicity is OK for me

 

at any rate as we say in Yorkshire;

 

with your easiest way to explain term ethnoreligious group

how would you classify hopeful Bloomberg and the jocks in my example above and the Buddhists in my example ?

 

 

I have no idea what you're asking now. Bloomberg is obviously a non religious Jew. Your example of jocks as if that's a relevant distinction is bizarre. As far as Jews that go on to practice other religions that's probably a more case by case question. Some people actively and voluntarily reject their ethnic Jewish identity and you get into questions of being identifiable or not meaning some may want to but can't. Many books have been written on the complexities of Jewish identity and also how that changes in different societies and eras. Too big a subject for this topic. The label ethnoreligious group should really be good enough for most people. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jingthing

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have no idea what you're asking now. Bloomberg is obviously a non religious Jew. Your example of jocks as if that's a relevant distinction is bizarre. As far as Jews that go on to practice other religions that's probably a more case by case question. Some people actively and voluntarily reject their ethnic Jewish identity and you get into questions of being identifiable or not meaning some may want to but can't. Many books have been written on the complexities of Jewish identity and also how that changes in different societies and eras. Too big a subject for this topic. The label ethnoreligious group should really be good enough for most people. 

am getting somewhat confused now

 

so Bloomberg is an American non religious Jew

the jock example is not bizarre at all, of course there would be some Scots that practice the "Jewish religion".

and Jewish Buddhists you call case by case Jews or?

 

don't understand why you promote ethnoreligious groups as an easy descriptive means if you end up with;

 

non religious Jew

bizarre Scots

case by case Jews

 

not very useful as descriptive tools

 

I guess linguists would say that new terminology is needed, and that it is not meaningful to describe

both ethnicity and religion with one term

 

agree that the Jewish identity is complex, but many people frequently talk about Jews and Jewish without

really reflecting over the ethnicity bit and/or religious bit, ie low precision and misunderstanding follows

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

am getting somewhat confused now

 

so Bloomberg is an American non religious Jew

the jock example is not bizarre at all, of course there would be some Scots that practice the "Jewish religion".

and Jewish Buddhists you call case by case Jews or?

 

don't understand why you promote ethnoreligious groups as an easy descriptive means if you end up with;

 

non religious Jew

bizarre Scots

case by case Jews

 

not very useful as descriptive tools

 

I guess linguists would say that new terminology is needed, and that it is not meaningful to describe

both ethnicity and religion with one term

 

agree that the Jewish identity is complex, but many people frequently talk about Jews and Jewish without

really reflecting over the ethnicity bit and/or religious bit, ie low precision and misunderstanding follows

Scots? 

What kind of game are you playing now?

Jocks -- you mean athletes right? 

You may as well have said bakers. 

Some people are athletic and some are bakers Jews and otherwise. 

OK in your language when you say jocks you mean Scots? 

If so sounds like you are talking about nationality.  Jews are found all over the world more or less mostly less because they are a tiny minority group globally. 

 

Again race and ethnicity are not the same thing.

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

Quote

Jewish ethnic divisions refers to a number of distinctive communities within the world's ethnically Jewish population. Although considered one single self-identifying ethnicity, there are distinctive ethnic subdivisions among Jews, most of which are primarily the result of geographic branching from an originating Israelite population, mixing with local populations, and subsequent independent evolutions.[1][2]

 

Again Jews as an ethnoreligious group can be generalized this way if it helps.

 

 

Traditionally Jewish identity  coming from the mother. 

 

People that are observant Jews are mostly of one of major ethnicities associated with Jews Ashkenazi / Sephardim / Mizrahim etc. 

 

Jews that are not observant are mostly also of one of major ethnicities associated with Jews Ashkenazi Mizrahi etc. 

 

You can be ethnically Jewish and not at all religious. 

 

There are of course many individual situations. Intermarriage conversions etc. meaning Jews that aren't Jewish ethnically. 

 

There is also such a thing as cultural Judaism which many non religious Jews relate to. 

 

Sorry there isn't one magic word to describe this. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jingthing

[jayboy]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

The terms Jew and Jewish are not very good descriptive terms and lead to many misunderstandings.

 

The terms are used for people practicing a certain religion regardless of (racial) heritage

and also used for describing people of a certain (racial) heritage regardless of religion

 

you have born and bred jocks that are Jews and you have Jews that are Buddhists

The recent passing of Dr Jonathan Miller (of Beyond The Fringe and much else) reminds me of the following memorable exchange.

 

Question posed:                       Are you a Jew ?

 

Dr Jonathan Miller:                   I'm Jew...ish.I don't go the whole hog.

[jayboy]

"Every single Jew I know, and I know plenty, observant or not, confesses nowadays to being suddenly very aware of their Jewishness, and alive to the potential reaction it can provoke from both the right and, more worryingly (given its professed antiracism), the left. I, too, have been the target of anti-Semitic abuse in the last two years. If someone like me, with only the haziest notion of what the Torah or the Talmud are, can be such a target, I wonder at how much hatred is out there, waiting to boil over again."

 

Nicholas Lezard

British writer

November 2019

[toast1]

Corby, who has spent his life praising, supporting, helping and standing with those who wish to slaughter Jews and who spread a hatred of Jews, gave the green light to this section of British society.

His half hearted condemnation his old friends, made clear to everyone exactly where he stood, and his party.

It became clear, very soon, that Labour party members rarely faced anything more than a short suspension when found out.

As we see from many posters here, the image of the lying, deceitful, tricky Jew is popular again.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by toast1