Thai Domestic Electrical Work.

[technocracy]

the thais sorted it all out after the european company would not pay attention to our complaints , and left it neater and safer.

18 months on , no fires , water leaks , or blown fuses.......... but our fingers are still crossed.

All I can say is - oh my god! I've just looked through those pictures with my mouth open! To start say what is wrong is pretty much stating the obvious!

I don't know anyway could sleep at night after doing such shoddy work. The 2nd photo with the mass of taped wire right underneath a water waste outlet is just unbelieveable! Did there not even consider the risk of a leak?!? I wouldn't even allow my builders put a water pipe on the wall behind a socket (even though they tried! ).

The company who wired your condo must have shares in 3M!

[taxexile]

yes , it was a bit of a shock when i started to look closely at the work being done , but their attitude when i complained was that it wasnt really their fault because they were very busy and had to sub contract !!

they were silent and red faced when i showed them the sanitary towel though !

[quiksilva]

Just brought a place from Sansiri and moved in over Songkran.

First morning woke up, jumped in the shower and got an elecrtic shock from the metal shower faucet when I tried to turn it off!

I don't know much about domestic electrical work but I assume that this is not normal! I suppose they haven't grounded the plumbing, but how could I check? What should I look for?

[Crossy]

Just brought a place from Sansiri and moved in over Songkran.

First morning woke up, jumped in the shower and got an elecrtic shock from the metal shower faucet when I tried to turn it off!

I don't know much about domestic electrical work but I assume that this is not normal! I suppose they haven't grounded the plumbing, but how could I check? What should I look for?

HI QS. Rather than cluttering this poll with Q&A's have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67644

I'll quote this thread over there so you get your answers

Number one, start taking cold showers

[maprao]

Does any one realise that a capacitor represents a short circuit to AC?

mmm well actually depends on the value of the capacitor. The formula for Capacitive reactance is Xc=1/2πfc .Capacitive reactance is the electrical resistance the capacitor has on the circuit.

Xc = Capacitive reactance (resistance to AC)

π= 22/7 OR 3.14 (pye)

f= frequency of mains electricity 50Hz or 60Hz Depending on country

c= value of the capacitor in Fahrads (unit of measure of capacitance)

Therefore a capacitor of the correct value would present a high resitance at the mains frequency. Again why only qaulified people should get involved in any electrical installation. Me I will still stick to drinking chang beer and pay an electrician to do the work:-)

Edited May 2, 2007 by maprao

[chanchao]

That's three no's for me.

On the third question I would perhaps welcome supervision of a qualified PERSON, but I don't give a hoot if he/she is foreign or not. Rather not, actually.

[bazmlb]

All of the flouros in my place were wired to switch neutral, makes a great glow when they are turned off at night and really annoying, some didnt work as the twist joins had started to corrode or become loose

[chownah]

All of the flouros in my place were wired to switch neutral, makes a great glow when they are turned off at night and really annoying, some didnt work as the twist joins had started to corrode or become loose

This is not a big problem....if all on one circuit are switched on the neutral then just reverse the polarity at the breaker box....what?....you are worried that the wire colors will not be appropriate?....guess what!!!....in Thailand you should ALWAYS assume that the colors are meaningless because quite often they are....you should always check and never assume polarity of any circuit in Thailand....that's what Thai electricians do. If it still bothers you then make notes on small pieces of paper saying CAUTION...REVERSED POLARITY and put one in each of the switch boxes and light fixtures and junction boxes.

Of course this is just the rice farmer approach....and as you well know all us rice farmers are luckless and clueless.....

Chownah

P.S. You might be able to just swap the wires in the switch box...or the fixture...or something like that but being clueless...and lazy...I'll not suggest how this could be done.

Chownah

[bazmlb]

All of the flouros in my place were wired to switch neutral, makes a great glow when they are turned off at night and really annoying, some didnt work as the twist joins had started to corrode or become loose

This is not a big problem....if all on one circuit are switched on the neutral then just reverse the polarity at the breaker box....what?....you are worried that the wire colors will not be appropriate?....guess what!!!....in Thailand you should ALWAYS assume that the colors are meaningless because quite often they are....you should always check and never assume polarity of any circuit in Thailand....that's what Thai electricians do. If it still bothers you then make notes on small pieces of paper saying CAUTION...REVERSED POLARITY and put one in each of the switch boxes and light fixtures and junction boxes.

Of course this is just the rice farmer approach....and as you well know all us rice farmers are luckless and clueless.....

Chownah

P.S. You might be able to just swap the wires in the switch box...or the fixture...or something like that but being clueless...and lazy...I'll not suggest how this could be done.

Chownah

swapped them at the switch as thats where the power feed ends, they dont go to the light then run a pair to the switch as in australia, and some lights were wrong and some right so just changed the ones needing it at the switch

[frikkiedeboer]

The questions are self explanatory. If possible, please give reasons for your choices. Please cite 'real' cases & not 'stories'.

when i first came to thailand, stayed at the inlaws' place, and one night the lights fused. i looked for the cause, found nothing , and replaced the fuse with a new one. next night, the fuse blew again, and they called the "electrician" in. he did not even consider that there could be a fault/overload, and simply wound a length of thick copper wire between the two contacts, said to me: "copper, velly good!" i tried to explain to him that this was not a "velly good" solution, but he, and the rest of the family laughed at my ignorance,-after all, he had solved the problem, and my attempt (replacing the fuse with one of the correct amperage) had failed. i gave up trying to explain, and just assumed that the electrician was one of those ameteur village handyman types.

this fellow (he lived next door) then disappeared off the scene for about six months. one day he arrived back, and i asked him where he had been all this time. he said he had been employed on site at the new airport building. i asked him what kind of work he had been doing, and he replied that he had been employed as an electrician!- scary stuff!

i have no doubt that there are properly trained and qualified thais who are perfectly capable of doing a competent job, but only too often, building contractors will hire somebody off the street, with limited knowledge/ability, and the homeowner,is left blissfully living in a death-trap.there seem to be no proper controls and checks in place. at my place, (and i wired it myself),the electricity dept. came to "inspect" the installation before wiring up the meter. all they checked was the overhead cable to my distribution board, then signed it off. the inspector explained to me that as long as there was a single fuse box (doubling as an isolator) between the house and the supply, he was happy.

be scared......................

[elkangorito]

I was at a friends place in Klaeng when a rather nasty electrical storm occurred. After the storm had gone, one of the neighbours arrived to seek electrical assistance - they had power & only partial lighting. Since I had my electrical tools with me, I checked it out for them.

After doing the usual checks at the distribution board (correct voltage, correct CB operation, appropriate circuit isolation etc), I discovered that this particular lighting circuit had some strange resistances and voltages between active & neutral. Because the system was not MEN (& consequently unearthed), I was unable to test comparative earth to active & earth to neutral voltages/resistances. I did, however, decide that the storm had damaged the ballasts in some lights & quite possibly the starters too. I instructed the occupants that it would be a good idea to replace the light fittings because a faulty ballast can get very hot & start a fire. I then went away to procure the appropriate equipment.

Upon my return, I found all lights blazing. I discovered that a Thai friend (of the occupants) had been & replaced the starters in my absence. The ballasts were not replaced.

Obviously the words electricity', 'fire' & 'dangerous' mean very little to many people here...or is it an ego thing to 'show up' the farang?

In any case, I believe that all the light fittings have now been replaced because another storm completely destroyed them & even the usual universal Thai electrical band-aids could not fix them.

[Gimbo]

-Ability to insert plugs upside down, ie. No care for polarity.

-

It's AC/DC and thus you do not have to consern yourself with that.

Else, most electrical domestic installations I have seen in Thailand are a hazard to life and limb. I am a trained electrician, and and any inspector from north of the Brenner pass would have heart attack if he saw some of the stuff in Thailand

[Gimbo]

. If it still bothers you then make notes on small pieces of paper saying CAUTION...REVERSED POLARITY and put one in each of the switch boxes and light fixtures and junction boxes.

Of course this is just the rice farmer approach....and as you well know all us rice farmers are luckless and clueless.....

Chownah

P.S. You might be able to just swap the wires in the switch box...or the fixture...or something like that but being clueless...and lazy...I'll not suggest how this could be done.

Chownah

You have to be pretty fast, as AC/DC current switches polarity constantly at 50 or 60Hz, thats 50 or 60 times a second. Thats why it does not matter what way you insert a plug into an electrical outlet.

What you should worry about is overloaded wiring, not dimensioned for the load, and short circuits, and not to mention earth being directly connected to one of the live wires, and carrying a current...

[paulsmithson]

Just bought a house here---many considerations amongst them basic electrics. \looked for an earth rod and found it---checked that the earth wire ran to the distribution board---it did, Paid the cash and moved in then started installing a few aircon units and wiring them into the panel. That is when I found out that the only thing earthed was the disi-board itself!!!!!Earth wire in but no earths running out.

Earthing has been a requirement of the Thai electrical authorities her for over two years now. the builder obviously knew this and blagged it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Easy answer---I shall run the earth wires asap.

I do know many very competent Thai electricians and respect them.

[chownah]

. If it still bothers you then make notes on small pieces of paper saying CAUTION...REVERSED POLARITY and put one in each of the switch boxes and light fixtures and junction boxes.

Of course this is just the rice farmer approach....and as you well know all us rice farmers are luckless and clueless.....

Chownah

P.S. You might be able to just swap the wires in the switch box...or the fixture...or something like that but being clueless...and lazy...I'll not suggest how this could be done.

Chownah

You have to be pretty fast, as AC/DC current switches polarity constantly at 50 or 60Hz, thats 50 or 60 times a second. Thats why it does not matter what way you insert a plug into an electrical outlet.

What you should worry about is overloaded wiring, not dimensioned for the load, and short circuits, and not to mention earth being directly connected to one of the live wires, and carrying a current...

I'm not so fast...actually I'm kind of slow....but it doesn't matter because the polarity I was speaking of was the polarity of the wiring and by this I meant that the colors of the wires are reversed relative to the proper usage...i.e. the hot and neutral wires have the opposite color from what is proper....I forget which way is proper so I won't even make a guess at it.

I pretty much agree with you about what are the important points to worry about but if you read some of the old posts or stick around here long enough you will discover an entire army of expats who worry alot about alot of other electrifying issues!!! Now that I've made fun of them I want to point out to their credit that they are willing to go to almost any length to resolve their issues and find the proper resolution...or at least a safe one... and in the process we all benefit by learning the proper way to stay safe....don't forget...safety first.

Chownah

[elkangorito]

-Ability to insert plugs upside down, ie. No care for polarity.

-

It's AC/DC and thus you do not have to consern yourself with that.

Else, most electrical domestic installations I have seen in Thailand are a hazard to life and limb. I am a trained electrician, and and any inspector from north of the Brenner pass would have heart attack if he saw some of the stuff in Thailand

Where did you do your 'electricians' training, Gimbo? By the sounds of things, you did it in Thailand because any electrician with any idea of safety, knows & completely understands that 'polarity' is very important. Failure to respect 'polarity' can lead to death or serious injury (unless of course you did your training in Thailand).

Edited July 23, 2007 by elkangorito

[Gimbo]

-Ability to insert plugs upside down, ie. No care for polarity.

-

It's AC/DC and thus you do not have to consern yourself with that.

Else, most electrical domestic installations I have seen in Thailand are a hazard to life and limb. I am a trained electrician, and and any inspector from north of the Brenner pass would have heart attack if he saw some of the stuff in Thailand

Where did you do your 'electricians' training, Gimbo? By the sounds of things, you did it in Thailand because any electrician with any idea of safety, knows & completely understands that 'polarity' is very important. Failure to respect 'polarity' can lead to death or serious injury (unless of course you did your training in Thailand).

Polarity, as in + and - is only important when you are dealing with DC (Direct Current). Electrical installations in houses uses AC/DC. And switches polarity at a speed of 50-60Hz. Thus it does not matter what way you insert a plug.

[Crossy]

Polarity, as in + and - is only important when you are dealing with DC (Direct Current). Electrical installations in houses uses AC/DC. And switches polarity at a speed of 50-60Hz. Thus it does not matter what way you insert a plug.

Ah but it DOES, although we have alternating voltage so + & - don't matter, we have a Live and a Neutral pole (live bites, neutral [usually] doesn't as it should be grounded).

Mostly it doesn't matter with modern appliances which pole is which, but live chassis TVs (still some made like this) and lights with single pole switches can become hazardous if not plugged correctly. Having a two pin plug on a light can also put the live pole on the outer screw part of the fitting ready to bite the unwary inserter of a new lamp, always pull the plug before replacing a lamp.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Crossy

[Gimbo]

Polarity, as in + and - is only important when you are dealing with DC (Direct Current). Electrical installations in houses uses AC/DC. And switches polarity at a speed of 50-60Hz. Thus it does not matter what way you insert a plug.

Ah but it DOES, although we have alternating voltage so + & - don't matter, we have a Live and a Neutral pole (live bites, neutral [usually] doesn't as it should be grounded).

Mostly it doesn't matter with modern appliances which pole is which, but live chassis TVs (still some made like this) and lights with single pole switches can become hazardous if not plugged correctly. Having a two pin plug on a light can also put the live pole on the outer screw part of the fitting ready to bite the unwary inserter of a new lamp, always pull the plug before replacing a lamp.

Sorry, but English is not my first language, so may I try to see if I understnad you correctly.

I think you are misunderstanding the whole polarity bit. In a standard two pronged plug, f.ex the one to a simple desk lamp, both wires is live. There is no neutral pole per se, as the polarity of the two conection points alternates at 50 or 60Hz (depending on the standard in the country).

In a 3 pronged plug, like the britthish are using for everything, the 3rd prong is the earth (grounding, neutral, whatever you call it). This attaches the apparatus to the grounding system of the building.

In Europe (except brittain I think), grounding is only required in wet rooms, like the bathroom and kitchen. Two pronged plugs is the standard. Of course you are not even allowed to move into your house, before your electrical installation have been checked and deemed safe. In Thailand, it's another story...

[Crossy]

In Europe (except brittain I think), grounding is only required in wet rooms, like the bathroom and kitchen. Two pronged plugs is the standard. Of course you are not even allowed to move into your house, before your electrical installation have been checked and deemed safe. In Thailand, it's another story...

OK, I understand the English is not your first language.

BUT

The Euro standard 'Shuko' plug is NOT a two prong plug. It may have only two pins but the third (ground) contact is made by two side connections, except in France and Belgium where a third pin is actually incorporated into the socket, this mates with a hole in the plug and effectively polarises the outlet making it non-reversible

Which Euro country are you from, the standard varies all over the place.

[Gimbo]

In Europe (except brittain I think), grounding is only required in wet rooms, like the bathroom and kitchen. Two pronged plugs is the standard. Of course you are not even allowed to move into your house, before your electrical installation have been checked and deemed safe. In Thailand, it's another story...

OK, I understand the English is not your first language.

BUT

The Euro standard 'Shuko' plug is NOT a two prong plug. It may have only two pins but the third (ground) contact is made by two side connections, except in France and Belgium where a third pin is actually incorporated into the socket, this mates with a hole in the plug and effectively polarises the outlet making it non-reversible

Which Euro country are you from, the standard varies all over the place.

I am Norwegian. And no, the euro plug with the two side connectors for the grounding can also be plugged in two both ways. It simply does not matter what way you plug it in.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Gimbo

[Crossy]

I am Norwegian. And no, the euro plug with the two side connectors for the grounding can also be plugged in two both ways. It simply does not matter what way you plug it in.

CORRECT. Except in Belgium and France where the same (actually nearly the same) plug is polarised, it has a ground pin actually as part of the socket, that's what the hole in the plug is for.

Anyway, who cares, we are in Thailand where the rules don't apply

[kelvinj]

What gimbo may not be taking into account is that the Norwegian power supply is different to most other nations. I worked there in the 80's installing mainframe computer equipment, their three-phase supply is a Delta system, when you take a single phase connection from this, you are connected across two phases and it really does not make any difference which way around you plug into it. Most other places generate 3-phase in the Star configuration, when you take a single phase supply from this it is connected between phase and neutral, this means that one of the pins in your two pin connector will be held close to earth potential.

[Gimbo]

What gimbo may not be taking into account is that the Norwegian power supply is different to most other nations. I worked there in the 80's installing mainframe computer equipment, their three-phase supply is a Delta system, when you take a single phase connection from this, you are connected across two phases and it really does not make any difference which way around you plug into it. Most other places generate 3-phase in the Star configuration, when you take a single phase supply from this it is connected between phase and neutral, this means that one of the pins in your two pin connector will be held close to earth potential.

Yikes, I was not aware of that. I was wondering why every socket I have seen outside my sheltered fjords where earthed. I was just figuring tighter regulations on what rooms needed earthed sockets. (in Norway regulations say only wet rooms like bath rooms and kitchens need them in a normal house).

As for thailand, there does not seem to be any standard at all. Just some patched up, we take what we have and make use it.

Anyway, I am actually planning to rewire the our house in the village, and since it's been a few years (10 years) since I was practicing, I think I have to brush up on a few things, and hire someone instead of doing it myself...lol (but I'll be right behind him, questioning every false move).

At least I'll be able to catch him when he uses telephone wires for a 50KV changeover switch or something :-)

[qualtrough]

I have found it very hard to find a qualified electrician to do work at the house. Most of the good ones are hired to do work on industrial estates and large buildings, etc. What you are left with is amateurs. It does not take much of an expert to see that the state of electrical wiring here is very often abysmal. I would be willing to pay extra to have a European/US qualified electrician supervise a local crew, and at some point I plan on doing that for my house. I know he/she will be in for quite a few surprises. Guesthouse might have his heart in the right place, but in this particular areas the locals have not shown they are up to it in many cases.

I do know something about automobiles, and while there are good mechanics here there are a lot of very poor ones. There is a Thai saying 'Farang Tum Gern' (ฝรั่งทำเกิน) which literally means 'Farang make too many'. This is in reference to all the washers, springs, and nuts left over when a job is done, i.e. the farangs use too many parts and many are not really necessary. Ha ha ha!

Edited July 23, 2007 by qualtrough

[Crossy]

What gimbo may not be taking into account is that the Norwegian power supply is different to most other nations. I worked there in the 80's installing mainframe computer equipment, their three-phase supply is a Delta system, when you take a single phase connection from this, you are connected across two phases and it really does not make any difference which way around you plug into it. Most other places generate 3-phase in the Star configuration, when you take a single phase supply from this it is connected between phase and neutral, this means that one of the pins in your two pin connector will be held close to earth potential.

Ah, I was wondering if this was the case, it would explain all of gimbo's comments. I've only come across this system in one other place, The Philippines where they have the additional factor of being 220V 60Hz (I believe the only place on planet earth to use this system if you ignore the US bi-phase supply).

The delta supply is theoretically safer as, although both lines are live, they are at about .6 mains voltage above ground, additionally un-grounded computers don't bite as their chassis, floating at mid-rail, actually have something approaching zero V wrt ground. Unfortunately the requirement to have double pole breakers in the CU sort of negates the advantages.

[johnnyk]

My house has two wires coming in so I assume my electrical outlets are not safely grounded.

Is there any way I could retrofit grounding?

Junction boxes also seem to be non-existent, is it worthwhile to have someone go into the attic and install junction boxes where connections are now simpl taped together?

[Crossy]

Not necessarily, the ground is not an incoming wire, you should have a stake somewhere with a wire attached.

Have a look here for some ideas, http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ you certainly can retrofit grounding

I've not seen UK style junction boxes here, they have proper MK ones in Malaysia, maybe pick some up on the next visa run

[elkangorito]

The devices used to join wires are generally called 'connectors' or 'BP connectors'. See the attached picture.

[Crossy]

The devices used to join wires are generally called 'connectors' or 'BP connectors'. See the attached picture.

Nah, we don't use those bodges

Get proper BS standard joint or junction boxes from MK. Maintain the integrity of the jacket, no exposed conductors

I'll find a photo, remember in the UK we run TPS naked under floors and in ceilings, no conduit required on domestic installations

Obviously either is 1000000 times better than the "twist the wires and tape" method.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Crossy