Ebikes and mopeds

[rohitsuk]

Does anybody know the rules about using an Ebike or Emoped on public roads.  There are now lots for sale on Lazada, at Big C and bike shops but I get very contradictory advice when I ask the sellers, with some saying no problem, it is a bicycle and others saying, no cannot.

 

[jackdd]

Any vehicle with an engine / motor requires to be registered, have a license plate, insurance and so on.

If these vehicles don't have this they are not street legal.

[damascase]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Any vehicle with an engine / motor requires to be registered, have a license plate, insurance and so on.

If these vehicles don't have this they are not street legal.

An ebike is still very much a bicycle. It needs pedaling to activate the supporting role of an electric motor. The motor cuts out at a designated speed. No pedaling, no power from the motor.

[jackdd]

16 minutes ago, damascase said:

An ebike is still very much a bicycle. It needs pedaling to activate the supporting role of an electric motor. The motor cuts out at a designated speed. No pedaling, no power from the motor.

The Thai law is just very broad and to my knowledge they never issued any regulations to narrow it down.

It says something like: Motorbike means a vehicle with two wheels and which is powered by an engine or motor.

An Ebike matches this definition, which means it requires license plate etc.

 

Here in Chiang Mai they have e-scooters, which would also be a motorbike under this definition, but i guess Chiang Mai made an exception specifically for these.

[damascase]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The Thai law is just very broad and to my knowledge they never issued any regulations to narrow it down.

It says something like: Motorbike means a vehicle with two wheels and which is powered by an engine or motor.

An Ebike matches this definition, which means it requires license plate etc.

 

Here in Chiang Mai they have e-scooters, which would also be a motorbike under this definition, but i guess Chiang Mai made an exception specifically for these.

An ebike is not powered by a motor. There is no direct connection between the electric motor and the rear wheel of the bicycle. There is no throttle. You have to pedal and the amount of force you apply on these pedals determines the speed.
E-scooters are a completely different concept.

[Rhys]

These E-Bikes are quite Pang, yes?

 

[rohitsuk]

2 hours ago, Rhys said:

These E-Bikes are quite Pang, yes?

 

No neccessarily.  You can get one from Lazada for B10,900 discounted for thier 12.12 promotion to B9k. https://www.lazada.co.th/-i531176729-s957652313.html?spm=a2o4m.my_wishlist.price_observing.25.57af6108d1rPaE&urlFlag=true&mp=3

 

[rohitsuk]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

The Thai law is just very broad and to my knowledge they never issued any regulations to narrow it down.

It says something like: Motorbike means a vehicle with two wheels and which is powered by an engine or motor.

An Ebike matches this definition, which means it requires license plate etc.

 

Here in Chiang Mai they have e-scooters, which would also be a motorbike under this definition, but i guess Chiang Mai made an exception specifically for these.

I have not seen these in CM.  Are they used for tourist trips round the city ?

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, damascase said:

An ebike is not powered by a motor. There is no direct connection between the electric motor and the rear wheel of the bicycle. There is no throttle. You have to pedal and the amount of force you apply on these pedals determines the speed.

So what's the electric motor in there powering, the lights? Of course it's powered by the electric motor, that's the whole point of an e-bicycle. Just not solely.

[MeePeeMai]

3 hours ago, rohitsuk said:

Are they used for tourist trips round the city ?

That's a scary thought!

[ballpoint]

12 hours ago, eisfeld said:

So what's the electric motor in there powering, the lights? Of course it's powered by the electric motor, that's the whole point of an e-bicycle. Just not solely.

The motor assists your pedalling.  You want to go faster, you pedal faster.  You stop pedalling, the motor stops.  More advanced ones have multiple assistance modes and allow the level of assistance to be boosted or decreased in each, but, unlike an electric motorcycle, you can't coast along without pedalling for any distance.

 

https://www.raleigh.co.uk/how-do-electric-bikes-work/

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The motor assists your pedalling.  You want to go faster, you pedal faster.  You stop pedalling, the motor stops.  More advanced ones have multiple assistance modes and allow the level of assistance to be boosted or decreased in each, but, unlike an electric motorcycle, you can't coast along without pedalling for any distance.

 

https://www.raleigh.co.uk/how-do-electric-bikes-work/

Correct, which means the electric motor is powering the wheels in addition to your normal power. It's just a question of how much additional force it provides. But the point still stands. It falls under the definition of the old law. That the power output of the electric motor is regulated by your pedalling speeds vs a twist on a throttle is irrelevant.

 

Oh and btw there are definitely e-bicycles that don't require pedalling to make the electric motor output power. I encourage to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle

 

Note: I'm not saying the law is right or that sensible enforcement wouldn't require most e-bicycles to register, get a plate etc. But I have seen e-bicycles that lets the user reach speeds which are scooter territory and the lines becomes blurry. What if an e-bicycle was created that can reach 100kph? Would you still claim that it's just a normal bicycle because the rider has to pedal? The problem is that when the laws were created, nobody envisioned these new electric bicycles. New laws are required, possibly limiting the peak power that the electric motors are allowed the output before they get classified as scooters. But again I wouldn't even take into consideration if they are operated via a pedal, throttle or like the below.

 

Example regulation that would make more sense:

 

Under 500 W: no registration, license needed

Up to 5 kW: registration, beginner license

Up to 35 kW: registration, intermediate license

Over 35 kW: registration, advanced license

 

[eisfeld]

22 hours ago, damascase said:

There is no direct connection between the electric motor and the rear wheel of the bicycle.

Just to refute this point directly: The electric motor sits in the casing where the pedals are connected, powers the front sprocket there which is connected via the chain to the rear sprocket. Exactly like a normal motorbike just without the gearbox. Or in other words, exactly like any electric motorcycle. The difference is just the max power output and maybe (but not always) how the power is modulated.

[Denim]

The Sanyo eneloop looks like an ordinary bicycle so probably get away with using it without any kind of licence.

The motor is in the front wheel hub.

Cost is around 9 - 10,000 baht.

 

[damascase]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Correct, which means the electric motor is powering the wheels in addition to your normal power. It's just a question of how much additional force it provides. But the point still stands. It falls under the definition of the old law. That the power output of the electric motor is regulated by your pedalling speeds vs a twist on a throttle is irrelevant.

 

Oh and btw there are definitely e-bicycles that don't require pedalling to make the electric motor output power. I encourage to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle

 

Note: I'm not saying the law is right or that sensible enforcement wouldn't require most e-bicycles to register, get a plate etc. But I have seen e-bicycles that lets the user reach speeds which are scooter territory and the lines becomes blurry. What if an e-bicycle was created that can reach 100kph? Would you still claim that it's just a normal bicycle because the rider has to pedal? The problem is that when the laws were created, nobody envisioned these new electric bicycles. New laws are required, possibly limiting the peak power that the electric motors are allowed the output before they get classified as scooters. But again I wouldn't even take into consideration if they are operated via a pedal, throttle or like the below.

 

Example regulation that would make more sense:

 

Under 500 W: no registration, license needed

Up to 5 kW: registration, beginner license

Up to 35 kW: registration, intermediate license

Over 35 kW: registration, advanced license

 

In my country of origin, the law considers ebikes on which the electric support cuts out at 25 km/h as a ‘normal’ bicycle, no addition rules etc. The so-called Speed Pedelecs (which, in the case of adequate legpower, can reach 40 - 45 km/h) are under the same rules as mopeds, so need to be registered, insured etc., are banned from certain cycle lanes and the rider must wear a specific type of helmet.

[eisfeld]

6 hours ago, damascase said:

In my country of origin, the law considers ebikes on which the electric support cuts out at 25 km/h as a ‘normal’ bicycle, no addition rules etc. The so-called Speed Pedelecs (which, in the case of adequate legpower, can reach 40 - 45 km/h) are under the same rules as mopeds, so need to be registered, insured etc., are banned from certain cycle lanes and the rider must wear a specific type of helmet.

All fine, probably in my country of origin as well. But we're talking about Thailand.

[cornishcarlos]

6 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

the rider must wear a specific type of helmet

 

 

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

All fine, probably in my country of origin as well. But we're talking about Thailand.

Most countries regulate whether registration and license are required according to the power output of the motor.  For some, such as parts of Australia, this can be as low as 200 Watts (ie/ registration and license are required for anything with a motor greater than 200 Watts).  Others, including some states of the US, allow up to 1,000 Watts, with the rest of the world generally in between:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

 

Thailand isn't included in the link above, however a manufacturer based here gives 500 Watts as the limit, but provides no links to back it up

"In Thailand, 500 watts is the legal power output before registration & insurance is required".  I personally wouldn't class the bikes shown on their website as ebikes though, but rather electric scooters.

https://www.electricbikesthailand.com/toyotron/

 

[Denim]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:34 PM, damascase said:

An ebike is not powered by a motor. There is no direct connection between the electric motor and the rear wheel of the bicycle. There is no throttle. You have to pedal and the amount of force you apply on these pedals determines the speed.
E-scooters are a completely different concept.

 

I was just looking at the Sanyo again for the wife and it appears that the three speed Sanyo has a motor in the front wheel which can be activated by a throttle grip on the handlebar .

 

It can also be used without any assistance or pedal assisted. Three options.

 

Demonstrated in this video.

 

 

[marcusb]

Motorcycles under 50cc do not need to be registered or taxed. I see them all the time, some look like small Scoopys, no plates.  So I doubt any kind of Ebike needs registration. 

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, marcusb said:

Motorcycles under 50cc do not need to be registered or taxed. I see them all the time, some look like small Scoopys, no plates.  So I doubt any kind of Ebike needs registration. 

Can you provide an official source for this?

Following your logic helmets are not required, i see people riding without helmet all the time.