Thailand road carnage: "Big Bike" rider among 26 dead on Tuesday

[Assurancetourix]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

I agree but judging by your emoji it seems that you want them accompanied wherever they drive by a man with a red flag????

 

Whilst this is,no doubt,the safest option have you considered the political ramifications?????‍✈️????‍✈️

misplaced emoji or bad emoji ; sorry ..

Political ramifications ?

 

Impossible to speak frankly about politics in this non democratic country .

[Assurancetourix]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

They are starting to be marginally honest with their statistics.

no statistics are valid in this country.
They consider that they have only about 1% of the population unemployed;
what do they do with the millions of Thai people who live by selling a few things on a sidewalk, the millions of farmers who pay no tax because they are too poor and therefore do not exist;
of these hundreds of thousands or even millions of guys in yellow or orange who live on the back of the population ...

[Ventenio]

Is it really that difficult to find out if the person died at the hospital?

 

Died on the scene:  26

Didn't die on the scene, but died within 24 hours:  209837498324723

 

oh, that's way.  

[Assurancetourix]

11 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

I agree this technique defensive work well London but on Thailand roads this technique driving is limited because everyone know the unexpected have no limit, dog, cow, elephant, cable on the road, garbage, loss of material from the truck

It still helps considerably by respecting the safety distances depending on the speed; respecting the speed limits which curiously, in any case with my pickup Isuzu 3 liters, correspond to the maximum torque of the engine and thus to its minimal consumption .....
I have been an international trucker for 40 years, traveling about 6 million km on all roads in  Europe ,  to Ukraine , East Germany , Poland ,before the wall was down , or down in the boot in Italy, where the highways are free; in any case were in the years 70/80 .. I always returned to the garage with a truck and myself in good condition ../
I never lost a point on my driver's license ...
I have been driving in Thailand for 13 years, the same way I have been driving in Europe; by anticipating, by looking in my retros, by not watching a video while driving or by telephoning while driving.
and I don't start until my front and rear passengers are wearing seat belts.
I don't smoke and I don't drink alcohol ...
Thais find it strange, not me.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

At the scene deaths for this month already total 422.

Appalling statistics, yet the transport minister keeps his position. 

[Moonlover]

24 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

I agree this technique defensive work well London but on Thailand roads this technique driving is limited because everyone know the unexpected have no limit, dog, cow, elephant, cable on the road, garbage, loss of material from the truck, and I not speaking about the kamikaze drivers go wrong direction road etc.

Defensive driving/riding is a valid and life saving technique that applies to all roads anywhere in the world.

[Odysseus123]

17 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

misplaced emoji or bad emoji ; sorry ..

Political ramifications ?

 

Impossible to speak frankly about politics in this non democratic country .

Eh?

 

I was having a bit of a joke about your red card (flag)

 

When the Brits started first driving the loud,dirty,smell beasts -about 1900-they had to be accompanied by a man walking in front of them with a red flag and I still believe that it is the safest option for the Thai.????

[ChipButty]

I was driving down the road about 5pm yesterday behind a truck that was weaving about all over the road not going fast then he decided to pull over but I couldn't get past because of on coming traffic only a narrow road and to my surprise out jumps a Kid I think to be about 14 years old, any parent who had given him permission to drive should also be locked up

[phantomfiddler]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No it doesn't - it ranks Thailand as one of the most dangerous places to 'Ride a Motorbike'.

 

74% of deaths are on Motorcycles. 

12% of deaths are in 4 wheels vehicles / cars - Thats 2880 to 3000 per year. 

Thai Population is 69.04 Million people -

 

The death rate in cars in Thailand equates to 4.17 to 4.34 deaths per 100,000 people.

 

In the UK the Total Death rate is 3.1 deaths per 100,000 people.

 

 

Thailand has a major issue with Motorcyclists dying on the roads, obviously because most of the road users are motorcyclists and then a combination of other factors involved to place those high numbers of motorcyclists in an environment of higher risk than it should be (i.e. no helmet, drink, poor rider education, lack of awareness of safety, poor road design, poor road quality etc etc).

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

 

 

 

 

I don,t think that the people who are killed are all that concerned about what type of vehicle they were driving at the time of their demise. The odds on getting killed on the roads of Thailand are well over 10 times the odds in U.K. irrespective of what "statistics" will tell you, and it surely rates as one of the world,s most dangerous countries to drive in ???? 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

a scooter/motorbike is not a motorcycle.

 

 

From a legal perspective, both scooters and motorbikes are motorcycles.

 

Just as, from a legal perspective, both hatchbacks and SUVs are cars.

 

If the former wasn't so, I would have to sell my Click, because my licence only allows me to ride a motorcycle.

 

Save riding. ????

 

[Mac98]

3 hours ago, zyphodb said:

All very well Richard but you forget the greatest risk to all those motorcyclists, lunatics in cars, minibuses and trucks. these cause most of the accidents but get left out of the statistics as they're protected inside their steel cage, unlike the, mostly poor motocycle riders...

I've been in taxis, buses, and private vehicles which drive nearly in contact with the motorbike ahead of them, no matter if children aboard or not. Presenting that kind of danger should allow the tailgated motorbike driver or a passenger to turn and open fire on the maniac behind the wheel. That'll get 'em a car length or two to brake.

[canthai55]

1 minute ago, Mac98 said:

 That'll get 'em a car length or two to brake.

Marbles work the best. Drop a handful from their storage area in your left hand jacket pocket. Bounce on the road and right thru the radiator / AC condensor

[Billthekiwi]

Just yesterday on my scooter I had 2 potential incidents. One by a car that crossed 2 lanes from a side street just in front of me. I was forced to brake quite hard. In reply I tried hard to boot the rear side of the car but missed.

 

In the 2nd a woman on a motor scooter merging from the otherside of the road decided that she had more rights to the road that I was on.

 

Her I told to push off and that she was brain dead. I am quite prepared to ride over someone like that and keep going. Once having raced motorcross I am good with shoulders and elbows.

 

A wise man once told me to consider all Thai traffic as though they are out to kill you. I think that after nearly 2 years of riding that it was sound advice.

[richard_smith237]

 

55 minutes ago, notasmartassknowitallfarag said:

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

74% of deaths are on Motorcycles. 

12% of deaths are in 4 wheels vehicles / cars - Thats 2880 to 3000 per year. 

Thai Population is 69.04 Million people -

 

The death rate in cars in Thailand equates to 4.17 to 4.34 deaths per 100,000 people.

 

In the UK the Total Death rate is 3.1 deaths per 100,000 people.

Have you compared the number of people who actually drive cars in Thailand to England. If the vast majority drive bikes here, the population stat will not work accurately, hence why we judge all road deaths. 

 

I did add the caveat [Thailand has a major issue with Motorcyclists dying on the roads, obviously because most of the road users are motorcyclists]....

 

I agree that the statistic can be highly distorted and often unrepresentative of reality by looking at them from a different angle - sometimes, because of local differences even the same statistic compares apples to oranges. 

 

With your suggestion, bringing the 'car only statistics into a more level playing field: 

 

 

 

 

References: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/744077/reported-road-casualties-annual-report-2017.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Being exposed to the mindless recklessness of 'some' of the motorcyclists, I have witnessed some of the daftest maneuvers. 

 

I can imagine worse, yet on a daily basis I'm still surprised as a motorcyclist tries and gets away with the seemingly impossible, blissfully unaware of how close he (usually a he) came to serious injury or worse - and that's before I exit the 1km of my Soi to the main road !

 

Overtaking on the blind humpback bridge over the Khlong is a favorite. 

 

 

Sounds like you live in my soi. 

[Scot123]

I'm sorry but using figures to try and make you feel safe riding in your tin box and say look the roads are safe for me just dangerous for those on motorbikes. Utter rubbish. Thai roads are extremely dangerous and hell to drive on. The stress level is unbelievable, I hated it. I also rode my motorbikes (this call them big bikes). Taking my children to school 15km at least 3 times someone would try and crash into me or commit suicide. That's 12 times a day. Now I'm back in the UK driving and the difference is night and day. I now enjoy driving again, I never use my horn. To even try and compare UK roads to Thai roads is madness. 

[Krataiboy]

As a cyclist (yep, I'm getting ready to duck!), I reckon motorcyclists are my biggest danger. Having said that, nearly all Thais appear to ride or drive with a reckless disregard for mortality. Couldn't, of course, have anything to do with their religious beliefs. . . 

[Odysseus123]

The people that were trying to kill me up in Isaan generally drove pick-up trucks.

The scoopy-do's were mere toe jam.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

I'm sorry but using figures to try and make you feel safe riding in your tin box and say look the roads are safe for me just dangerous for those on motorbikes. Utter rubbish. Thai roads are extremely dangerous and hell to drive on. The stress level is unbelievable, I hated it. I also rode my motorbikes (this call them big bikes). Taking my children to school 15km at least 3 times someone would try and crash into me or commit suicide. That's 12 times a day. Now I'm back in the UK driving and the difference is night and day. I now enjoy driving again, I never use my horn. To even try and compare UK roads to Thai roads is madness. 

[Thai roads are extremely dangerous] - Agree

[and hell to drive on] - Not really, keep your eyes open and you get used it

[The stress level is unbelievable] - Not really again, driving in Thailand feels perfectly normal now.  I find being a passenger more stressful as I don't know what the driver sees or predicts.

 

I guess some people aren't mentally capable of adopting to driving in Thailand while for others its just not such a big deal even though the Statistics are highly damning. 

 

 

[300sd]

I particularly find it interesting when a driver is driving his car as if he was still riding his motorbike. You know like moving into, and driving in, the oncoming lane to turn right or pulling over to the left until the cars go by so they can turn right....or it gives me the shivers when the windows are not so blacked out and you can spot the kids in daddy or mommies lap at the wheel, or they are texting whether on motor bike or in car. Parking and stopping in the slow lane also is a winner....no this is about a brain with no thinking, no reasoning and a me first attitude, whether in a car or scooter and sometimes a motorcycle.

[KhunKenAP]

This will no longer be a problem once they raise the speed limits, "NOT".

[Wydahoan]

Been riding for over 40 years, I think the Thai motorcyclist are very skilled, they just do many stupid things. 

My wife has a good explanation of why they might drive dangerously, they have 30baht insurance, and somebody will always take care of them.  

[30la]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Some put the figure at around 24,000 - 26,000 per annum. 

Why is it not possible to have the exact number?
It seems that someone prefers to keep it hidden!
The difference between 13.885 and 26000 is very large!

[ParkerN]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I may not be smart enough. Please explain.... 

 

Hmmm. Explain. Really? Easier to write you off as a Thai-basher. Let him stay in his comfort zone. he's a trucker.

[Scot123]

29 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

[Thai roads are extremely dangerous] - Agree

[and hell to drive on] - Not really, keep your eyes open and you get used it

[The stress level is unbelievable] - Not really again, driving in Thailand feels perfectly normal now.  I find being a passenger more stressful as I don't know what the driver sees or predicts.

 

I guess some people aren't mentally capable of adopting to driving in Thailand while for others its just not such a big deal even though the Statistics are highly damning. 

 

 

You must be on really good Prosaic, smoke really good grass maybe spend your life in a haze. I have driven in many countries some being 3rd world none come close to Thailand. I started driving in Thailand 2005 in Bkk and drove all round from Cambodia to Malaysia. I think about 500,000km in total (2 vehicles and 3 motorbikes) so I would say I was very used to it. I have had 3 accidents 1. Car drove into the back of me at traffic lights. 2. Motorbike rode into the side of me. 3. Reversed into the side of me, so drunk he could hardly see and stumbled out of his pickup (police did nothing ignoring his drunken state simply saying he agrees his fault). You contradict yourself be first saying not stressful then saying keep your eyes open paying attention. You must be one calm dude but I have a tenancy of getting very angry when someone tries to kill my family and me which was regularly the case. I can not remember once driving my children to school when someone didn't just pull out in front of me or cut me off. Driving at night is another level and to be avoided. Motorbikes rarely with working rear light and often with a bag covering the front light. I must admit I would get very angry when seeing westerners driving like Thais (should no better) or riding scooters with no helmet, no shirt or t shirt, shorts and sandals and the worst being carrying children no helmets. Maybe being ex Army, Scottish is not a calm enough mixture for the insanity of driving in Thailand. I love driving again now, and in 9 months used my horn twice. 

[GarryP]

21 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

As a cyclist (yep, I'm getting ready to duck!), I reckon motorcyclists are my biggest danger. Having said that, nearly all Thais appear to ride or drive with a reckless disregard for mortality. Couldn't, of course, have anything to do with their religious beliefs. . . 

When riding my bicycle down Onnut Road I was taken out by a motorcycle. He passed so close to me his wing mirror hooked my arm and pulled me over. He stopped about 30 meters ahead, turned round for a quick look, then rode off on his merry way. In the meantime, I had to scrabble out of the way of a pickup truck that did not see me lying on the road as it turned out of a side soi and headed directly at me. It only stopped because street vendors screamed at the driver to stop, by which time it had crushed my rear wheel. Such is life.  

[richard_smith237]

Please allow me to break this up a little...

 

31 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

You must be on really good Prosaic, smoke really good grass maybe spend your life in a haze.

Or perhaps you needed this when driving - it seems you were a nervous wreck.

 

Quote

I have driven in many countries some being 3rd world none come close to Thailand. I started driving in Thailand 2005 in Bkk and drove all round from Cambodia to Malaysia. I think about 500,000km in total (2 vehicles and 3 motorbikes) so I would say I was very used to it.

But couldn't get used to driving in Thailand - that's just strange. 

 

Quote

I have had 3 accidents 1. Car drove into the back of me at traffic lights. 2. Motorbike rode into the side of me. 3. Reversed into the side of me, so drunk he could hardly see and stumbled out of his pickup (police did nothing ignoring his drunken state simply saying he agrees his fault).

Accidents are not uncommon anywhere. The Police ignoring that someone is drunk is despicable. 

 

Quote

You contradict yourself be first saying not stressful then saying keep your eyes open paying attention.

Not really, paying 100% attention is a necessary facet of driving in any country. Anyone who doesn't shouldn't be driving - paying 100% attention is not stressful, its just driving.

 

Quote

You must be one calm dude but I have a tenancy of getting very angry when someone tries to kill my family and me which was regularly the case.

There's absolutely no point in getting angry when behind the wheel - what can be achieved?

They're not trying to kill your family, they're just driving poorly. 

 

Quote

I can not remember once driving my children to school when someone didn't just pull out in front of me or cut me off. Driving at night is another level and to be avoided.

Agreed - silly stuff goes on all around us. Predict the unpredictable. 

 

Quote

Motorbikes rarely with working rear light and often with a bag covering the front light. I must admit I would get very angry when seeing westerners driving like Thais (should no better) or riding scooters with no helmet, no shirt or t shirt, shorts and sandals and the worst being carrying children no helmets.

You get angry a lot - there's no point getting upset at things which are outside of your control.

 

Quote

Maybe being ex Army, Scottish is not a calm enough mixture for the insanity of driving in Thailand. I love driving again now, and in 9 months used my horn twice. 

Perhaps the Army thing, I can definitely see how a lack of discipline and respect for others on the roads here could upset you. 

I don't enjoy driving in Thailand, I don't hate it either - its just normal life, nothing special, nothing bad... a means to an end. 

 

I enjoy riding my motorcycle here more - but that's just a motorcycle thing. 

 

 

Edit: Whats getting me angry now ?? the edit function on this Website !!!

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, GarryP said:

When riding my bicycle down Onnut Road I was taken out by a motorcycle. He passed so close to me his wing mirror hooked my arm and pulled me over. He stopped about 30 meters ahead, turned round for a quick look, then rode off on his merry way. In the meantime, I had to scrabble out of the way of a pickup truck that did not see me lying on the road as it turned out of a side soi and headed directly at me. It only stopped because street vendors screamed at the driver to stop, by which time it had crushed my rear wheel. Such is life.  

 

Crazy stuff, other motorcyclists can be nuts. I felt like kicking out at one the other day he was riding alongside me so closely almost elbow to elbow, leaving me no maneuvering room. 

I have a Forward and rear facing cam on my Bike - any incidents and I have a recording (Innov K2).

 

I also have cam in my car. I recorded a Motorcyclist suddenly switch lanes, right in front of me side swiping another motorcyclist and knocking him clean off, the 'aggressor' then got up and rode off. 

I stopped, helped the motorcyclist, downloaded the recording and when the Police came I gave them the recording. 

 

Cams are very useful tools - I wish everyone had one, I wished every drove and rode with the knowledge that everyone else has one - they'd all be more careful then.

 

 

[The Theory]

120kmh will make it accurate death estimate since they all will die at the scene. 

[Almer]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Being exposed to the mindless recklessness of 'some' of the motorcyclists, I have witnessed some of the daftest maneuvers. 

 

I can imagine worse, yet on a daily basis I'm still surprised as a motorcyclist tries and gets away with the seemingly impossible, blissfully unaware of how close he (usually a he) came to serious injury or worse - and that's before I exit the 1km of my Soi to the main road !

 

Overtaking on the blind humpback bridge over the Khlong is a favorite. 

 

 

3 weeks ago whilst attempting an indicated right turn, bang, out of nowhere a motorbike had overtaken crossing a double yellow line several cars queuing behind me and is now on the floor broken leg and 18.000baht damage to the car.

Today the car was booked in for repair  and in the taxi on the way back from the bodyshop the taxi wishing to turn left, indicated in good time had to stop for about 10 seconds to let the junction clear before she could enter, bang, the taxi was stationary half in the junction, 3 teenagers spread across the junction, totally the bikes fault and the comment from the rider was" i couldn't see well as his mate sat in front if him obscured his vision" classic reply.

 

There is little to no spatial awareness naturally gained with experience.