I was wrong... the tourists ARE gone!

[BritManToo]

Lots of white foreigners on the Pilgrims Trail yesterday.

Almost no cyclists on the road from the Zoo to the Temple today, and there used to be about 200 or more every weekend day in the past. I only counted 12 listed on Strava this morning (& half of them were Thai).

Edited December 28, 2019 by BritManToo

[Bassosa]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Lots of white foreigners on the Pilgrims Trail yesterday.

Almost no cyclists on the road from the Zoo to the Temple today, and there used to be about 200 or more every weekend day in the past. I only counted 12 listed on Strava this morning (& half of them were Thai).

Are you implying that Chiang Mai is becoming less popular with the vegan/cyclists set?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

Are you implying that Chiang Mai is becoming less popular with the vegan/cyclists set?

They seem to have all gone.

I've only seen 2-3 cyclists at the bottom of the steps for the past two weeks.

(I've walked or cycled up nearly every day this month)

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/26/2019 at 11:02 PM, donnacha said:

It is not my area of expertise but, these days, you could probably more easily find the "girls" you're looking for online. Good luck, and make sure she uses protection.

Sure thing, then when I attempt to become president of the USA some pimply boy in his mommy's basement can find out that I like ladyboys and tell the world.

 

Seriously, in Pattaya and Bkk at least some of the ladyboys are attractive to look at, but in C M they are so ugly that one has to wonder if there is a market for ugly ladyboys that is exclusive to C M.

[Ron jeremy]

18 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

had a bottle of leffe beer at a high end da nang club apocalypse on beach, live band.  total cost about 130 baht, same price big c sells it for in thailand. 

Sat on the beach, breathed fresh air, spotlessly clean. 

Didnt have to fight for a seat with hookers and drunk in derelicts, or wade thru the empty Chang bottles. Freshest air in Asia. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Ron jeremy

[Ron jeremy]

21 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Sorry, but I do NOT believe that the problem is as serious as you say. I say that the air pollution is no worse than someone who smokes 7 cigarettes per day, and only that bad for a few weeks out of the entire burning season.  We do wear an N95 mask for those 2-3 weeks, as a safety precaution.  We are both athletic and active all year around, and do not find the air pollution to be a problem for us.  I'm sorry that you are so delicate as to be affected by it. Perhaps improving your diet might help, or a regular exercise program? Are you obese? That seems to exacerbate breathing difficulties.

 

It seems that many folks love to spend their time looking for various ways to be unhappy. Expats are famous for it, especially ones who post in ThaiVisa, and even go so far as the create Excel spread sheets to show data proving why they should be unhappy.  Air pollution stats, traffic accident stats, illness stats, temperature stats. Sorry, but I don't wish to dwell on such things. There are too many positives occupying my time.

 

There is absolutely nothing holding us against our wishes here in Chiang Mai. We stay because we like it here. We own a lovely home in southern Japan that we could live in should we want to. We do not.  We have no thoughts of leaving Chiang Mai, and when asked about relocation to Chiang Mai by friends and acquaintances, unhesitatingly state that we consider it a wonderful retirement location!  Had we to do it all over again, deciding where in the world we'd like to spend our retirement years, we'd choose Chiang Mai again, just as we did 19 years ago.

I must say I think you're full of BS if you don't think anything is wrong with the air of Chang Mai. Denial won't solve it.

gotta agree with the other posters on this one. Stop putting you're foot in you're mouth, you really don't sound very intelligent

[balo]

FolkGuitar must be living in a perfect bubble, unaware of all the dangers in the city.  Of course he can breathe normally and ignore it completely, but the health risks are still there. But if you are willing to take your chances, go for it!  

Edited December 28, 2019 by balo

[neeray]

What a difference a couple years can make !

(Picture, February 2017)

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

I must say I think you're full of BS if you don't think anything is wrong with the air of Chang Mai. Denial won't solve it.

gotta agree with the other posters on this one. Stop putting you're foot in you're mouth, you really don't sound very intelligent

 

 

1 hour ago, balo said:

FolkGuitar must be living in a perfect bubble, unaware of all the dangers in the city.  Of course he can breathe normally and ignore it completely, but the health risks are still there. But if you are willing to take your chances, go for it!  

 

It becomes quite obvious that neither of you can read... Perhaps a course of 'Hooked on Phonics' might help, or leaning to read for 'comprehension' instead of skimming so you can hurry back with a rebuttal.

 

I have never said that there is nothing wrong with the air in Chiang Mai, as Ron Jeremy says. Not once.

I have never said that there are NO dangers, as Balo tries to tell us I have.

 

I HAVE said that I don't find the problem to be as serious as they do, that it is a situation which can be easily dealt with on an individual basis, and that there is no need (in MY life, anyway,) for me to spend all my time bitching, moaning, and complaining about the air quality (or any other problem in Thailand, for that matter,) charting the data on spread sheets.

 

Sorry, guys. I prefer not to stress over it.  I can't stop the farmers. I can't change the government. I can't put an end to the air pollution or traffic problems.  That's simply not an option.

What I CAN do is learn to live with them in a stress-free way.  It's obvious that you don't wish anyone to do that. Too bad.  Stress-related illnesses kill more people every year than air pollution or traffic accidents.

Keep that in mind.

[OneZero]

Who is the one that appears perhaps to be defensively complaining rather than accepting a bit of fair criticism?

Edited December 29, 2019 by OneZero
Transfer to other post

[Cheesekraft]

2 hours ago, neeray said:

What a difference a couple years can make !

(Picture, February 2017)

how is it now in comparison ?

[lkn]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

I HAVE said that I don't find the problem to be as serious as they do,

And you went on to imply that one of the posters was probably obese, should work out more, and change their diet, if they had problems breathing.

 

That is where I interjected and called your comment ignorant, which made you double down on the completely unrelated issue of personal diet and fitness.

 

Fact is that the air quality in Chiang Mai is causing serious health issues, even if you personally do not feel the effects, as you have been a smoker throughout your life and probably is too old to worry about shortened life expectancy.

 

You are certainly right that we can’t really do much about it, so we have to tolerate it or move someplace else, and I think many of us are seriously considered the latter, but even if we can’t do anything about it, it’s some comfort to know that this is considered a major problem by a large part of the expat/tourist community.

[jimgilly]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:26 AM, FolkGuitar said:

 

Sorry, but I do NOT believe that the problem is as serious as you say. I say that the air pollution is no worse than someone who smokes 7 cigarettes per day, and only that bad for a few weeks out of the entire burning season.  We do wear an N95 mask for those 2-3 weeks, as a safety precaution.  We are both athletic and active all year around, and do not find the air pollution to be a problem for us.  I'm sorry that you are so delicate as to be affected by it. Perhaps improving your diet might help, or a regular exercise program? Are you obese? That seems to exacerbate breathing difficulties.

 

It seems that many folks love to spend their time looking for various ways to be unhappy. Expats are famous for it, especially ones who post in ThaiVisa, and even go so far as the create Excel spread sheets to show data proving why they should be unhappy.  Air pollution stats, traffic accident stats, illness stats, temperature stats. Sorry, but I don't wish to dwell on such things. There are too many positives occupying my time.

 

There is absolutely nothing holding us against our wishes here in Chiang Mai. We stay because we like it here. We own a lovely home in southern Japan that we could live in should we want to. We do not.  We have no thoughts of leaving Chiang Mai, and when asked about relocation to Chiang Mai by friends and acquaintances, unhesitatingly state that we consider it a wonderful retirement location!  Had we to do it all over again, deciding where in the world we'd like to spend our retirement years, we'd choose Chiang Mai again, just as we did 19 years ago.

You are totally delusional with your assessment of the air pollution problem.  Perhaps the severity of the pollution has already affected your thinking as no one would make the claims you do if they weren't already mentally challenged. 

 

So stay where you're at and let's see how things go in 2020 and the number of posts there will be about how bad the air is in Chiang Mai.  I'm looking forward to reading more posts from you in the future about how you do not find the air pollution to be a problem and how many people agree with you. 

 

Hope you've got good insurance as you will likely be needing it and sooner than you think.  Oh, I forgot - you're real athletic and the air pollution is not a problem for you.  Right.

[BritManToo]

Back to tourists,

Were plenty at Wat Doi Suthep this morning and a traffic jam a mile long on the steep uphill stretch.

Adding to the pollution was the smell of burning clutch plates.

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, jimgilly said:

So stay where you're at and let's see how things go in 2020 and the number of posts there will be about how bad the air is in Chiang Mai.  I'm looking forward to reading more posts from you in the future about how you do not find the air pollution to be a problem and how many people agree with you.

 

Do you suppose that this pollution problem has just begun? That it hasn't been going on for generations? Not just years, but for generations?  Do you assume that another year or two is going to cause it to jump up and bite me?  These posts about Chiang Mai air pollution HAVE been going on for years. For as long as I've been a member of ThaiVisa, which is about 14 years. And I'm sure these posts will continue for the next 14 years, as people love to discuss how unhappy they can be. The air pollution certainly isn't going away. You might. Probably will. Or else just complain about something over which you have no control... again and again and again.

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

And you went on to imply that one of the posters was probably obese, should work out more, and change their diet, if they had problems breathing.

 

Are you seriously trying to tell us that obesity and body condition are NOT a factor in people's physiological reaction to air pollution?

That's high school biology, not requiring 8 years of medical training to understand.

But it's a lot easier to complain about the air than do something to improve the body's ability to handle it, right?

Edited December 29, 2019 by FolkGuitar

[OneZero]

2 hours ago, lkn said:

And you went on to imply that one of the posters was probably obese, should work out more, and change their diet, if they had problems breathing.

 

That is where I interjected and called your comment ignorant, which made you double down on the completely unrelated issue of personal diet and fitness.

 

Fact is that the air quality in Chiang Mai is causing serious health issues, even if you personally do not feel the effects, as you have been a smoker throughout your life and probably is too old to worry about shortened life expectancy.

 

You are certainly right that we can’t really do much about it, so we have to tolerate it or move someplace else, and I think many of us are seriously considered the latter, but even if we can’t do anything about it, it’s some comfort to know that this is considered a major problem by a large part of the expat/tourist community.

Insisting that the harmful aspects of the bad air in Chiang Mai only last for 2-3 weeks & anybody who disagrees has personal faults & deserves insults is indeed ignorant (there is a difference between ignorance & stupidity, so hopefully the moderators will not view this as a personal insult).  Yes, there are plenty of people whose weaker immune systems will recognize the harmful affects sooner than others and they should not be misled when contemplating long term stay in CM.

[Bassosa]

13 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Do you suppose that this pollution problem has just begun? That it hasn't been going on for generations? Not just years, but for generations?  Do you assume that another year or two is going to cause it to jump up and bite me?  These posts about Chiang Mai air pollution HAVE been going on for years. For as long as I've been a member of ThaiVisa, which is about 14 years. And I'm sure these posts will continue for the next 14 years, as people love to discuss how unhappy they can be. The air pollution certainly isn't going away. You might. Probably will. Or else just complain about something over which you have no control... again and again and again.

I think the issue here is that the air pollution is getting worse and that nothing is being done to counter it.

[FolkGuitar]

1 minute ago, Bassosa said:

I think the issue here is that the air pollution is getting worse and that nothing is being done to counter it.

 

Of course that is the issue! And as foreigners here, there is nothing we can do to get the government to correct the problem. So... either live with it, dealing with it as best you can, or leave if you can.

Constant complaining about it solves nothing except increasing personal distress, which we do know exacerbates the problem.

[Bill97]

11 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

I think the issue here is that the air pollution is getting worse and that nothing is being done to counter it.

Certainly things are being done to counter it.  Are they enough? No but where in the world is enough being done?

 

[lkn]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

Are you seriously trying to tell us that obesity and body condition are NOT a factor in people's physiological reaction to air pollution?

That's high school biology, not requiring 8 years of medical training to understand.

If you actually learned about particle pollution during your high school years then you should know that it is completely unrelated to your diet or exercise regiment.

 

Furthermore, it is actually the less dangerous bigger particles that provoke physical reactions (irritated eyes, nose, and throat), where the smaller particles are causing less of an immediate physical reaction, but instead long term effects as they can get deep into your lungs and even into your blood stream.

 

And no, you can’t exercise or diet your way out of the effects of prolonged exposure to fine particles, that is where I call your comments ignorant.

 

I’m actually not complaining about the conditions in Chiang Mai, I am calling out your rather misguided belief about the subject matter.

[FolkGuitar]

33 minutes ago, lkn said:

If you actually learned about particle pollution during your high school years then you should know that it is completely unrelated to your diet or exercise regiment.

 

 

Sorry, but that is opposite everything I've ever heard about the body and how it reacts to air pollution.

But if you wish to believe that the healthy body's condition reacts the same as an unhealthy one, I won't try to change your mind.

[Bassosa]

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Certainly things are being done to counter it.  Are they enough? No but where in the world is enough being done?

 

There are numerous places where they've successfully improved the air quality. Pretty much the whole European continent springs to mind.

I think even China is making headway countering air pollution and they're producing all of our <deleted>. Imagine how hard that must be.

[Dante99]

38 minutes ago, lkn said:

If you actually learned about particle pollution during your high school years then you should know that it is completely unrelated to your diet or exercise regiment.

True but the way one's body reacts to it is certainly effected by their general health or lack thereof.  You are talking about pollution, he is talking about a body's reaction to it.

 

41 minutes ago, lkn said:

And no, you can’t exercise or diet your way out of the effects of prolonged exposure to fine particles, that is where I call your comments ignorant.

 

He never suggested you could.  He is just saying that unhealthy bodies will be effected more negatively.

 

44 minutes ago, lkn said:

I am calling out your rather misguided belief about the subject matter.

No, you are not responding to what he wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

No, you are not responding to what he wrote.

 

That seems to be the general way of dealing with the things said here...

[lkn]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

No, you are not responding to what he wrote.

 

This is what I originally responded to:

On 12/28/2019 at 8:26 AM, FolkGuitar said:

I'm sorry that you are so delicate as to be affected by it. Perhaps improving your diet might help, or a regular exercise program? Are you obese? That seems to exacerbate breathing difficulties.

@FolkGuitar has tried to make this about me then denying the benefits of exercise or what have you, where I just keep restating my original point, that claiming someone is delicate and/or obese, and just need to exercise more, to avoid being affected by fine particle pollution, is just ignorant!

 

[FolkGuitar]

6 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

This is what I originally responded to:

@FolkGuitar has tried to make this about me then denying the benefits of exercise or what have you, where I just keep restating my original point, that claiming someone is delicate and/or obese, and just need to exercise more, to avoid being affected by fine particle pollution, is just ignorant!

 

 

So ARE saying that that unhealthy bodies will be effected more negatively or not? 

It's common medical knowledge that that unhealthy bodies will be more strongly effected.

That is not in question... unless you are questioning it.

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was asking a question. By your own admission you are affected by this air pollution more than 'some' others, hence the comment about being delicate. Many certainly don't seem to be affected as badly, as shown by the number of people who have agreed with my comments,  but note that I italicized the word some to show that not everyone is the same.

[jimgilly]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Do you suppose that this pollution problem has just begun? That it hasn't been going on for generations? Not just years, but for generations?  Do you assume that another year or two is going to cause it to jump up and bite me?  These posts about Chiang Mai air pollution HAVE been going on for years. For as long as I've been a member of ThaiVisa, which is about 14 years. And I'm sure these posts will continue for the next 14 years, as people love to discuss how unhappy they can be. The air pollution certainly isn't going away. You might. Probably will. Or else just complain about something over which you have no control... again and again and again.

Listen, I used to live in CM but finally smartened up and realized living in one of the most polluted cities in the world wasn't a very bright idea. 

 

And saying people are complaining about something they have no control over is BS.  Most people can pull up stakes and move like I did or at least take off somewhere during the period where the air pollution is downright hazardous to your health. 

 

Then of course there are the athletic geniuses such as yourself who somehow believes he is impervious to toxic air that hospitalizes large numbers every year, often with respiratory and other serious health ailments. 

 

With the number of years you've been living in CM you're now tempting fate so don't be surprised when you become just another statistic.

[FolkGuitar]

7 minutes ago, jimgilly said:

Listen, I used to live in CM but finally smartened up and realized living in one of the most polluted cities in the world wasn't a very bright idea. 

 

 

So why do you still participate in the Chiang Mai forum. Miss the place?

 

And saying people are complaining about something they have no control over is BS.  Most people can pull up stakes and move like I did or at least take off somewhere during the period where the air pollution is downright hazardous to your health.

 

Poor reading comprehension, Jim. I said the 'air pollution' was something over which they have no control. I've stated several times that they have lots of control about how they deal with it. You really need to work on your reading skills.  I've even enumerated various ways they can react to the air pollution, but that doesn't fit in with your need to post. It's easier to pretend I never said it, then come riding in to save the day. Sorry, we see through your behavior. It's not unique.

 

Then of course there are the athletic geniuses such as yourself who somehow believes he is impervious to toxic air that hospitalizes large numbers every year, often with respiratory and other serious health ailments.

 

Again, poor reading skills come to the surface. I never said, nor even implied that I was impervious to the air pollution. I've stated many times that when the air is bad I use an N95 mask, but that, too, didn't fit your need to post. Sorry, we see through your behavior. It's not unique.

 

Sorry, Jim. You've had your 5 minutes of fame, or at least a try at it... and failed.

It would have been easier if you actually read what I wrote, but that's not how you function. Instead, you make up things you think I've said, so you can post your own agenda.

Sorry, we see through your behavior. It's not unique.

[lkn]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

So ARE saying that that unhealthy bodies will be effected more negatively or not? 

I really don’t think how you are affected by fine or coarse particles pollution depends on how “healthy” your body is. The former affects your body long term, for example by giving you lung cancer. You really think someone “healthy” cannot get lung cancer from fine particles pollution? And for the latter (coarse particles pollution), someone allergic or with asthma is more likely to be affected, or someone with more sensitive eyes, nose, or throat, which I again don’t think depends on your “health”.

 

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

By your own admission you are affected by this air pollution more than 'some' others, hence the comment about being delicate

This is what I wrote:

On 12/28/2019 at 12:58 PM, lkn said:

I don’t normally complain about air quality in Chiang Mai, and it’s not currently affecting my health, but it is the main reason why I am looking for somewhere else to spend my winters.

 

There are many problems in Chiang Mai (and Thailand), but none of them are scientifically shown to shorten my life expectancy and increase risk of lung cancer.

 

Honestly, your comment comes off as rather ignorant.