Help! Where can I get Non-Immigrant B Visa For Business Purpose WITHOUT a WP3?

[tsk3009]

Hey all! 

I have a fairly urgent question:

 

At which Thai Embassy in Southeast Asia can I get Non-Immigrant B Visa For Business Purpose WITHOUT a needing to provide a WP3 form?

 

Details for the question:

 

I printed out the Checklist for the Thai embassy in Kuala Lumpur. I ticked all the boxes exept for the box saying I needed a form showing VAT registration. Reason for not doing that is because my local Revenue office in Bangkok told me I needed a work permit before I could apply for that (whether that is true or not, that's what I was told.) So I thought if I provided a name and detailed information about the Revenue office that stated that I could get out of a chicken and egg triangle (needing a visa for the work permit, needing a work permit for VAT registration, needing VAT registration for the visa).

 

Upon my arrival at the Thai embassy, first I was told I needed a work permit. After explaining why I couldn't possibly have one, I was told I needed the WP3. I told the lady the Checklist didn't mention a WP3. She then proceeded to tell me 4 or 5 times that I had the wrong checklist. After telling her I thought it was the right one, because at the top it says "Non-Immigrant Visa (B) For Business Purpose." Finally I asked her to show me the correct form. She moved to another desk for a moment and proceeded to circle a statement at the bottom of the form I gave her which stated "Additional documents may be requested as deemed necessary by the Royal Thai Embassy." I guess that was her mea culpa and I did in fact have the right form. I then told her I had emailed the embassy a week prior just as the preceding document had said was the only way to get answer to questions and I got no response. She couldn't have cared less. In the end, the surly staff member told me I would get the visa if I applied but I submit the documents and pay anyway. So here I am in KL trying to figure out where to go next to apply for the visa before my flight back to Bangkok next week. Thanks for your help!

[BritTim]

Possibly you might be OK in Penang. The consulate there is commonly used for multiple Non B visas for business owners.  That said, the VAT registration is very likely to be requested there also. The embassy/consulate is looking for clear evidence that you will one way or another be dealing with a real company in Thailand. The VAT registration is typically dealt with by the Thai partners (which all Thai businesses with very rare exceptions must have) before foreign partners can get Non B visas. For initial business meetings associated with company establishment, you are allowed to enter on tourist visas.

[tsk3009]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Possibly you might be OK in Penang. The consulate there is commonly used for multiple Non B visas for business owners.  That said, the VAT registration is very likely to be requested there also. The embassy/consulate is looking for clear evidence that you will one way or another be dealing with a real company in Thailand. The VAT registration is typically dealt with by the Thai partners (which all Thai businesses with very rare exceptions must have) before foreign partners can get Non B visas. For initial business meetings associated with company establishment, you are allowed to enter on tourist visas.

Thanks for the response. But the local Revenue department said I need a work permit before I can register for VAT. I'm starting to feel dizzy. haha.

[ubonjoe]

You will not be able to get a non-b visa at any nearby location without a work permit application approval letter or a WP3.

This checklist shows it at 5.2. http://www.thaiembassy.org/kualalumpur/contents/images/text_editor/files/5_1.pdf

I think they should waive the VAT registration for a startup company.

[tsk3009]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You will not be able to get a non-b visa at any nearby location without a work permit application approval letter or a WP3.

This checklist shows it at 5.2. http://www.thaiembassy.org/kualalumpur/contents/images/text_editor/files/5_1.pdf

I think they should waive the VAT registration for a startup company.

So, even though a person is starting a business, they need to follow the requirements stated under the Employment Non-B visa application, not the Business Purpose Non-B visa application. Because in the end, I will need to hire myself. I can see it now, but I wish it was more clear. 

[tsk3009]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You will not be able to get a non-b visa at any nearby location without a work permit application approval letter or a WP3.

This checklist shows it at 5.2. http://www.thaiembassy.org/kualalumpur/contents/images/text_editor/files/5_1.pdf

I think they should waive the VAT registration for a startup company.

I have been looking online for the WP3 but can't seem to locate one, do you happen to know where I can find one online or know what the requirements are? Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, tsk3009 said:

I have been looking online for the WP3 but can't seem to locate one, do you happen to know where I can find one online or know what the requirements are?

A WP3 form for a work permit application can only be done when your outside of Thailand.

WPS form: https://www.doe.go.th/prd/assets/upload/files/alien_en/df172270ff13dbee9ce60cc34f9b698d.pdf

You would have use a WP1 or WP2 to apply for a work permit if you are in the country. After the application you get a work permit application approval letter that will be accepted to apply for the non-b visa.

[tsk3009]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A WP3 form for a work permit application can only be done when your outside of Thailand.

WPS form: https://www.doe.go.th/prd/assets/upload/files/alien_en/df172270ff13dbee9ce60cc34f9b698d.pdf

You would have use a WP1 or WP2 to apply for a work permit if you are in the country. After the application you get a work permit application approval letter that will be accepted to apply for the non-b visa.

And do you know how similar the details on the WP1 or WP2 are to the WP3? If I am a startup registered this month, how can I show social security payments for employees I don't have? Or could that be possibly waived like the VAT registration requirement?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, tsk3009 said:

And do you know how similar the details on the WP1 or WP2 are to the WP3? If I am a startup registered this month, how can I show social security payments for employees I don't have? Or could that be possibly waived like the VAT registration requirement?

You may have to stay on a tourist visa until your company can meet the requirement for a work permit application to get the non-b visa.

It is about the same for the forms used.

[natway09]

Times change over the years but you may get a Non Imm B, 3 months for company exploration purposes from your home country at which stage an accountant can fix the rest from there.

I know the Tax ID & VAT registration areas are getting stricter now as the new head of the tax dept is closing long over due  non addressed loop holes

[BritTim]

On 12/19/2019 at 12:09 PM, tsk3009 said:

Thanks for the response. But the local Revenue department said I need a work permit before I can register for VAT. I'm starting to feel dizzy. haha.

There is an important distinction between a company being established and your personal situation. If you have successfully established a company without Thai partners, perhaps you could enlighten us on the way you managed to achieve this. It may provide for exceptions to the normal order of events. As I said before, usually the order is:

• you establish a company together with Thai partners;
• those Thai partners carry out some initial necessary administrative issues like VAT registration; and
• with the company properly established, you can then apply for Non B visas as either an employee or director/owner.

You will not get a Non B visa under the auspices of a company that does not yet exist. It is possible if you have business operations outside Thailand that you might be able to get visas under BOI promotion to investigate business opportunities in Thailand.

[oldsalt]

BritTim has summed it up. Basically, you are putting the cart before the horse. First, you need a company, with Thai partners, plus other requirements. That, in itself, involves registration for tax purposes, but not necessarily VAT unless you are earning the relevant monthly or annual revenues. So, stop stressing about visas and WP3 right now. Get the company set up. Pay an accountant or lawyer to do that. Only then can you pursue the business visa and associated work permit. If you are looking at setting up a company primarily to get a non immigrant business visa and work permit and longer term stay, it is not necessarily that easy. Best to check out the somewhat onerous work permit requirements as well. They are designed to thwart the sole foreigner looking for an easy long term stay solution. 

[EbhB]

You must have a thai partner? Could you solve the problem with an invitation letter stating that you need a 90 day visa to set up the company, signed by the thai partner?

 

At least that was enough for me in my homecountry, signed by my other non-thai partner as a director. We did really work on the wording, and used an agent that the embassy is familiar with for the actual filing. Copy of company seal and the letter was all I needed to provide.

 

Also beware of the requirements for getting the final, 1 year work permit. The first month before applying should show a turnover of 200-300k baht, if under this they will now give out 6 month work permits, or even for the duration of an underlying 90 day visa...

 

 

[tabarin]

11 hours ago, EbhB said:

You must have a thai partner? Could you solve the problem with an invitation letter stating that you need a 90 day visa to set up the company, signed by the thai partner?

 

At least that was enough for me in my homecountry, signed by my other non-thai partner as a director. We did really work on the wording, and used an agent that the embassy is familiar with for the actual filing. Copy of company seal and the letter was all I needed to provide.

 

Also beware of the requirements for getting the final, 1 year work permit. The first month before applying should show a turnover of 200-300k baht, if under this they will now give out 6 month work permits, or even for the duration of an underlying 90 day visa...

 

 

You can not own a Thai company, only 49% of the shares in one. So without a Thai partner you are nowhere unless it is a BOI company.
For a WP you also need 4 Thai staff members unless you are married, then it is 2.

[tsk3009]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:01 AM, BritTim said:

There is an important distinction between a company being established and your personal situation. If you have successfully established a company without Thai partners, perhaps you could enlighten us on the way you managed to achieve this. It may provide for exceptions to the normal order of events. As I said before, usually the order is:

• you establish a company together with Thai partners;
• those Thai partners carry out some initial necessary administrative issues like VAT registration; and
• with the company properly established, you can then apply for Non B visas as either an employee or director/owner.

You will not get a Non B visa under the auspices of a company that does not yet exist. It is possible if you have business operations outside Thailand that you might be able to get visas under BOI promotion to investigate business opportunities in Thailand.

I have an established company as of this month. It is 100% foreign owned. There are ways to do this: BOI, US-Thai Treaty of Amity, Foreign Business License, and exemptions (import/export and cos manufacturing for their own label, etc.) So I just told the registrar at the DBD I was gonna be a US-Thai Treaty of Amity co and they processed the paperwork. Of the many things that don't make sense, this is one... why don't they require people to get US-Thai treaty of Amity cert before registration? I don't know. But I have a company and I think UbonJoe is right, I'll need to hire people and show to the Dept of Labor social security payments before I can get the WP3. That I will find out for sure next week. By the way, about the VAT registration, I didn't have it and the KL embassy didn't say I needed it. Also, when I called the Penang embassy, the guy who sounded like he had just woken up said I only needed my passport, application and WP3. Maybe those are the only critical requirements, the others are unimportant.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, tsk3009 said:

I have an established company as of this month. It is 100% foreign owned. There are ways to do this: BOI, US-Thai Treaty of Amity, Foreign Business License, and exemptions (import/export and cos manufacturing for their own label, etc.) So I just told the registrar at the DBD I was gonna be a US-Thai Treaty of Amity co and they processed the paperwork. Of the many things that don't make sense, this is one... why don't they require people to get US-Thai treaty of Amity cert before registration? I don't know. But I have a company and I think UbonJoe is right, I'll need to hire people and show to the Dept of Labor social security payments before I can get the WP3. That I will find out for sure next week. By the way, about the VAT registration, I didn't have it and the KL embassy didn't say I needed it. Also, when I called the Penang embassy, the guy who sounded like he had just woken up said I only needed my passport, application and WP3. Maybe those are the only critical requirements, the others are unimportant.

As I understand it, the WP3 is necessary if you want to be an employee of the company. Non B visas are possible, to visit as an overseas director, without a WP3, but there will be limits on the kinds of work you can do while in Thailand without being a formal employee with a work permit. In this latter case, without the WP3, they will want the kind of documentation about the company that the Labour Department usually requests for a WP3, plus evidence of your ownership stake in the company.

 

If you have a sole proprietorship under the US-Thai Treaty of Amity, I am not sure of the rules for Non B visas and work permits. It may depend on where you make applications, and the services of a good lawyer would seem to make sense.