Bars And Internet Shops Being Raided!

[jeffrosner]

If you do not know what your rights are, you have none.

Ask the guy who owns the Dum phone shop, he turned on video cameras and demanded identification and a warrant from the gun-holding criminals (cops).

The same crap with the SPA goes on in America. You can't come into my home or business without a search warrant. If you don't have one, then you are trespassing and are lucky I don't shoot you.

I don't give a $hit if you are a cop or not, if you have no proper process then you are no better than any criminal coming to steal from me. Cops have no protection in America when they work outside the law.

What rights do Thai People have? They must have some otherwise the 6 idiots who entered the Dum Phone Shop would have smashed his video cameras and then smashed his face.

Comments?

And another well constructed, considered, and constructive post is lobbed like a grenade onto TV.

Hint: Jeffrosner - people listen to what you say not how big you type - most grade schoolers grow out of the need for big fonts fairly quickly. If you want people to review your comments try doing it rationally and leave the hysterics out of it.

CB

I suggest you scroll past the Big parts. Much like a television, if you don't like what you see, stop bellyaching about it and change the channel.

COnformit^{y is is boring.}

With much love - JR

Edited April 3, 2007 by jeffrosner

[cdnvic]

I get Windows updates like everyone else, but now it wants me to install this program that checks to see if my Windows is legit then disables it if it's not. screw that.

The program is called "Widows genuine advantage"...and is spyware....you may be asked to download it, but even if you refuse, it will somehow get onto your computer...then tell you that the OS is fake.....and a while later, your system will crash....

Is this a microsoft program?

My computer got this (I bought a new acer from a main showroom, and didn't realise that they ship out their products with fake software) and I felt that it was a kind or windows "undercover" program. Microsoft's idea to get back at the piracy cheats?

- If so, wouldn't it break some Thai laws? The internet is controlled at a national level; look at lotteries / gambling sites / games sites, etc.

I have zero knowledge of computers, and it's a complete guess. Please don't slate me if the idea is stupid.

I can understand why microsoft would do this (I used to manage and license a set of patents.) to defend their products, but I did feel a bit cheated by the Acer company who put me in this compromised position. Can you imagine Sony selling their products with fake software...

(I know, pay peanuts... next time I'll pay more and check that the software is original.)

If you bought from an Acer dealer and got a pirated system then contact Acer at [email protected]

Don't contact the Thai office as they aren't exactly known for their honesty. Pretty pathetic for a manufacturer of that status to be condoning it.

[jasreeve17]

If you bought from an Acer dealer and got a pirated system then contact Acer at [email protected]

Don't contact the Thai office as they aren't exactly known for their honesty. Pretty pathetic for a manufacturer of that status to be condoning it.

Thanks for the info CDNVIC, I'll do that right now.

Edited April 3, 2007 by jasreeve17

[richard10365]

I hear what you all are saying but in Thailand it's like asking for ice water in hel_l.

Everyone has their values and beliefs based on their expierences in life. Mine has led me to the conclusion that aquiring software in this fashion is ok. Many opinions are different than mine due to the expierences others have had in their lives.

If all this makes me a bad person then so be it. Put my picture up on the wall next to Bin Ladin, Hitler and Al Capone. You guys are trying to soak up the water from a burst dam with a sponge.

The world runs on windows. To make it unavaliable to the poor is almost like withholding food from Africa. I'm not going to jump on that band wagon of Genuine Windows Vista. Bring the price down to something more realistic and I might consider changing my views. Realistic software prices is the best way to stop piracy. Asking people to stop pirating the software is like asking people not to have sex before they are married. It's not going to happen.

[Heng]

I'm right with you Richard. I feel the same away about the imported sports car biz here. There's a Ford Mustang GT in the paper for 5 million Baht... but I just can't pay $150,000 for a car that I could (and have) bought for $30,000 stateside. Now if only they would smuggle in a few stolen ala -Gone in 60 Seconds- Ford Mustangs (with forged papers of course) at say $25k I'd be on it like an inter-Thai on ABAC skirt!

Heck, if only we could live in a perfect world where we could steal just about anything if only we weren't happy with the price.

Who knows, those imported cars in the paper might indeed be stolen. What's up with the crazy markups though?

[jing jing]

I hear what you all are saying but in Thailand it's like asking for ice water in hel_l.

Everyone has their values and beliefs based on their expierences in life. Mine has led me to the conclusion that aquiring software in this fashion is ok. Many opinions are different than mine due to the expierences others have had in their lives.

If all this makes me a bad person then so be it. Put my picture up on the wall next to Bin Ladin, Hitler and Al Capone. You guys are trying to soak up the water from a burst dam with a sponge.

The world runs on windows. To make it unavaliable to the poor is almost like withholding food from Africa. I'm not going to jump on that band wagon of Genuine Windows Vista. Bring the price down to something more realistic and I might consider changing my views. Realistic software prices is the best way to stop piracy. Asking people to stop pirating the software is like asking people not to have sex before they are married. It's not going to happen.

I concur. Loved Napster and dig Pantip too. Didn't Bill Gates "steal" the idea for Windows from Apple, who actually "stole" the idea from an old skool IBM engineers?

Fight the power!!

[ourmanflint]

I feel sorry for the small businesses in Thailand, having to buy a separate copy of Windows for each computer they have.

That is just taking the piss.... and is tantamount to theft on the part of Microsoft. I can see no reason whatsoever how this practice has anything to do with IP and everything to do with robbing blind as many people as possible

One copy fine, 25 copies <deleted> Microsoft!!

[jeffrosner]

I hear what you all are saying but in Thailand it's like asking for ice water in hel_l.

Everyone has their values and beliefs based on their expierences in life. Mine has led me to the conclusion that aquiring software in this fashion is ok. Many opinions are different than mine due to the expierences others have had in their lives.

If all this makes me a bad person then so be it. Put my picture up on the wall next to Bin Ladin, Hitler and Al Capone. You guys are trying to soak up the water from a burst dam with a sponge.

The world runs on windows. To make it unavaliable to the poor is almost like withholding food from Africa. I'm not going to jump on that band wagon of Genuine Windows Vista. Bring the price down to something more realistic and I might consider changing my views. Realistic software prices is the best way to stop piracy. Asking people to stop pirating the software is like asking people not to have sex before they are married. It's not going to happen.

I concur. Loved Napster and dig Pantip too. Didn't Bill Gates "steal" the idea for Windows from Apple, who actually "stole" the idea from an old skool IBM engineers?

Fight the power!!

Not IBM but PARC.

[A_Traveller]

Trying to cover the bases here:-

If a government department is running copy software it would be difficult {read impossible} to bring legal action against them since they organisation would be subject to the equivalent of 'Crown Immunity' {UK term} though actions against individuals are possible.

The government has a number of agreements with MS. and I would expect an argument that usage, even if the specific installation was hacked was therefore covered.

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

WGA is spy-ware, since it is installed as part of the auto-patch facility but is not a patch but a 'validation'. To many it is the thin edge of the wedge in describing what is legitimate for a company from whom you have ONLY purchased a licence, to do with your PC.

Further MS refuse to properly acknowledge that MS. systems installed by manufactures legitimately may {and do} fail the WGA test thereby causing considerable inconvenience to users.

MS didn't steal 'Windows' though the concept of WIMP interfaces {Windows Icons Mouse Pointer} goes back to Xerox PARC [and as I type OP adds this] and was significantly 'borrowed' by both Apple and Digital Research. The development of Windows did lead to a rash of legal suits between MS., Apple and others and were finally resolved by fees being paid all round.

The provision of Windows at a price dictated by local pricing is an issue simply because the Windows platform requires English to be installed. There are some pricing bands {not really with Vista} that allowed for XP to be slightly cheaper according to region, but in the UK the full price can be virtually double the US price. Leakage is the problem here in that the theoretical concern is that the English version would become available in the US on the grey market, in other words a similar concern about drugs between the US and Canada.

Linux is to a large degree ready for desktop use, except where the user wants to use functions which have to be licenced i.e. Real Player, Quick Time. These facilities are available 'out of the box' with some Linux distributions at a cost {which is greater then the pirate XP's} or by taking the time to learn the installation processes {which some are loath to do}. It doesn't help that the attitude still exists with some Linux, and, in some cases with other open source applications, that if you don't understand the underpinnings of the OS/software, that you kinda don't deserve a computer.

Regards

/edit [add] //

Edited April 3, 2007 by A_Traveller

[cdnvic]

I concur. Loved Napster and dig Pantip too. Didn't Bill Gates "steal" the idea for Windows from Apple, who actually "stole" the idea from an old skool IBM engineers?

Fight the power!!

And if someone too poor to afford your laptop stole it you'd be on here screaming about it no doubt

People will always find justifications for why they can steal something. Says a lot about their character, and when something get's stolen from them their attitude suddenly changes from social crusader to victim.

[sleir]

Just a quick reply here. I am surprised that in a topic where apparently lawyers and law advisers write, Product or Software Piracy is still refered as theft. But I guess that even in Thailand you cannot steal something without depossessing someone else. If you would steal my laptop and I would mysteriously still have it on my table, then you didn't steal it... So obviously, and to be honest I don't know a law system where it would be different, software piracy may be treated like, but certainly is not, stealing. If I buy a cd and make a copy of it for my personal backup I am perfectly within my consumer rights, at least in my country. Borrowing that Cd to someone else isn't illegal either. But borrowing or selling the CD while actually using the CD myself is. I am well aware of these rather ridiculous TV spots dramatically claiming that "buying pirated software is stealing". maybe it morally is for some people, but it certainly isn't in front of the law. Certainly it is more fun to insult citizens learning how to use a computer to be thieves, but why don't we step back on all that silly moralization for a moment and consider it from an economic point of view ? I always thought Microsoft was well aware that the whole world is using Windows, but only the 1st world was and is able/willing to pay for it given the rather inflexible prices. That isn't going to change by enforcing strict laws, crackdowns etc.. it will only criminalize honest citizens.

So instead of forcing them to use cheaper/free alternatives the hard way, they would simply wait until the people/nation was ripe enough to enforce a more rigid copyright and anti piracy law. And once you conditioned a whole nation to using MS Windows, Office etc, and even teaching it at schools and colleges, they will sooner or later have to pay for the software, and then these actions we see now may commence, starting at big down to small businesses, traditionally the best customers of any software, down to private users. My 2 cent,

Simon

[cdnvic]

Actually, I can deal with the piracy aspect of it. Some people have a different ethical stance on it than others and nothing is going to change that. What gets annoying is the lame justifications that get trotted out about how much money Bill Gates has, or how bad the program is (yet nobody switches to something else). If you're going to steal it, then do it. But the justifications trotted out don't hold water. There are other choices for people to take, though you may need to pay a little extra (Macs), or learn something new (Linux/freeBSD/Solaris).

Macs are even easier to use than Windows, and are more secure and trouble free for the new user. Linux is is a bit more complicated but far more powerful and flexible than Windows can hope to be.

So to help those who need something cheap or free, or for those who say Windows is a poor product, There are alternatives listed below That address your concerns.

Learning is easy and there's plenty of help out there;

Linux

Siam Linux Users Group

Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Email: [email protected]

Thaivisa Linux Forum

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=67

Thailand Linux User Group

Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/8302/

Email: [email protected]

Thai Linux Working Group

Web Site: http://linux.thai.net/

Email: [email protected]

Mac

Phuket Mac User Group

http://www.phuket-macusers.com/

Thailand Mac User Community

http://www.macdd.com/

Thai Mac Club (In Thai)

http://www.thaimacclub.net/

Thaivisa Mac Forum

Good idea don't you think?

[bendix]

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

/edit [add] //

Interesting, but not strictly true. BSA is not particularly keen on prosecutions - it's more pragmatic than that. When it discovers a breach it negotiates with that organisation to come to a settlement, usually in the form of a compensatory payment in exchange for the software company to 'legitimise' the software. And I can assure you it has done so with several large companies regularly.

Who is B&M, by the way?

[Gravelrash]

When I was a teenager, if a friend had a good LP we would copy it onto cassette, same with taping songs off the radio. Pleased that no one else here on TV engaged in similar criminal behaviour.

Likewise when video recorders came out, we used to copy programs and movies from the television, some movies we even kept for rewatching, I do have a shady past indeed.

No doubt no one here when repairing their cars would use anything but "genuine" parts?

Years ago I bought a new computer, decided to give my old notebook to my kids for "learning games", they were 2 and 4, so didn't need MS Office. Did a reformat to cleanup the hard drive. When I went to load MS office on my new computer found I had the original Office 95 disk, but not the case that had the code, so couldn't load that first so that I could then install my 97 Upgrade version.

Called Microsoft who confirmed I was a registered user, but said as I had lost the code I would need to buy the full version again, not the upgrade. My wife was in Thailand at the time, I called her and asked her to buy a pirated copy of Office 2003, which she did, problem solved. If Microsoft had helped me I would have bought the legit upgrade as I wanted my new computer up to date, their choice. And I am not losing any sleep about it.

[jeebusjones]

I concur. Loved Napster and dig Pantip too. Didn't Bill Gates "steal" the idea for Windows from Apple, who actually "stole" the idea from an old skool IBM engineers?

Fight the power!!

And if someone too poor to afford your laptop stole it you'd be on here screaming about it no doubt

People will always find justifications for why they can steal something. Says a lot about their character, and when something get's stolen from them their attitude suddenly changes from social crusader to victim.

This is a poor analogy. If someone steals my laptop, I no longer have one to use and would have to buy another one. If someone uses pirated software, they are simply making a copy of it and no single person loses anything.

If someone could make a copy of my laptop as easily as they can pirate software, then certainly I would let them do it.

[Toni]

ha!!!!!!HA!!!!!ha!!!!!! ANOTHER ONE for the APRIL 1 joke!

Unfortunately this is a true story and no April fools joke. It is rather unfortunate timing to post about but true just the same, it happened to people I know. I left off the names and places just to protect my source as they don't want any further dealings with this latest group of entrepreneurs. So again, this is not a joke!

I posted already a year ago about a 2 raids within a couple of months organized by the music-rights companies sending a gang of cowboys together with a policeman to check if rights has been paid for restaurants with music. This was in Bangkok and not in the tourist-area. The cowboys where there to assist in carrying music-equipment away. After sending them back to the public road, they were trespassing private areas, the policeman had to think about 5 minutes before he could make the statement: "you go to police-station!". Luckily they where not interested that time in Bill.

[cdnvic]

When I was a teenager, if a friend had a good LP we would copy it onto cassette, same with taping songs off the radio. Pleased that no one else here on TV engaged in similar criminal behaviour.

I imagine at one time most members needed to be clad in diapers when taken out in public. I hope they've grown out of that too.

Things change when you're an adult and expected to take care of yourself.

[cdnvic]

I concur. Loved Napster and dig Pantip too. Didn't Bill Gates "steal" the idea for Windows from Apple, who actually "stole" the idea from an old skool IBM engineers?

Fight the power!!

And if someone too poor to afford your laptop stole it you'd be on here screaming about it no doubt

People will always find justifications for why they can steal something. Says a lot about their character, and when something get's stolen from them their attitude suddenly changes from social crusader to victim.

This is a poor analogy. If someone steals my laptop, I no longer have one to use and would have to buy another one. If someone uses pirated software, they are simply making a copy of it and no single person loses anything.

If someone could make a copy of my laptop as easily as they can pirate software, then certainly I would let them do it.

Ok, so then if you did some work after stating up front that it required you to be paid and you were not paid would you gladly give up your labour so easily?

I hardly think you'd walk away without complaint.

[Tornado]

Just to gee up the do gooders. I have 2000 dvd copys, 100s of computer cds and probably 3000 copy music that I share on a p2p.

at the end of the day, I couldnt care what you self opinionated drips think, it aint like stealing a car, it aint

the same thing, yes it is stealing as like all major companies and corporations do from us. Its life, get over yourself and stop trying to teach people the way you think, I couldnt care.

Please stand by your bed, inspection of your goods and sundrys

[A_Traveller]

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

/edit [add] //

Interesting, but not strictly true. BSA is not particularly keen on prosecutions - it's more pragmatic than that. When it discovers a breach it negotiates with that organisation to come to a settlement, usually in the form of a compensatory payment in exchange for the software company to 'legitimise' the software. And I can assure you it has done so with several large companies regularly.

Who is B&M, by the way?

Hm... you are with a legal firm here and B&M doesn't register, how about T&G then? Not sure who BSA uses these days.

Regards

[sriracha john]

lobbed like a grenade onto TV.

Thaivisa's funniest simile of the week

*edit: the above non-Thaivisa smiley is not copyrighted and members should feel free to copy without renumeration.*

*re-edit: on second thought, it's registered to sriracha john enterprises and requires a 23,000 baht fee to duplicate.*

Edited April 4, 2007 by sriracha john

[Old Man River]

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

/edit [add] //

Interesting, but not strictly true. BSA is not particularly keen on prosecutions - it's more pragmatic than that. When it discovers a breach it negotiates with that organisation to come to a settlement, usually in the form of a compensatory payment in exchange for the software company to 'legitimise' the software. And I can assure you it has done so with several large companies regularly.

Who is B&M, by the way?

Hm... you are with a legal firm here and B&M doesn't register, how about T&G then? Not sure who BSA uses these days.

Regards

OK, I an not with a law firm and would like to know. I would guess Baker and MacKenzie and Tilleke and Gibbons.

Was I close?

[A_Traveller]

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

/edit [add] //

Interesting, but not strictly true. BSA is not particularly keen on prosecutions - it's more pragmatic than that. When it discovers a breach it negotiates with that organisation to come to a settlement, usually in the form of a compensatory payment in exchange for the software company to 'legitimise' the software. And I can assure you it has done so with several large companies regularly.

Who is B&M, by the way?

Hm... you are with a legal firm here and B&M doesn't register, how about T&G then? Not sure who BSA uses these days.

Regards

OK, I an not with a law firm and would like to know. I would guess Baker and MacKenzie and Tilleke and Gibbons.

Was I close?

Icon for gold star missing so

Regards

[sriracha john]

For the BSA the chances of prosecuting a major here is virtually nil and they know it, and so their only option is to go for weaker 'fry'. What is interesting is the fact that B&M and BSA are spectacularly unable to deal with the CD/DVD pressing facilities, thereby tackling the problem at the root, not the branch. This, of course, would require cooperation from the authorities, {without warning leaks} which might be an issue here.

/edit [add] //

Interesting, but not strictly true. BSA is not particularly keen on prosecutions - it's more pragmatic than that. When it discovers a breach it negotiates with that organisation to come to a settlement, usually in the form of a compensatory payment in exchange for the software company to 'legitimise' the software. And I can assure you it has done so with several large companies regularly.

Who is B&M, by the way?

Hm... you are with a legal firm here and B&M doesn't register, how about T&G then? Not sure who BSA uses these days.

Regards

OK, I an not with a law firm and would like to know. I would guess Baker and MacKenzie and Tilleke and Gibbons.

Was I close?

Icon for gold star missing so

Regards

the following is available for only 32,000 baht:

[ourmanflint]

After much thought... really!

I can find no rational way to justify piracy as theft.

It is not theft, it never was theft, this is a term those companies involved have incorrectly asserted, when in actual fact nothing of the sort is actually happening.

And contrary to anyones assertions here, it is not like stealing a laptop, car, loaf of bread or anything else tangible and real. A correct analogy would be to say that someone broke into your house and copied your the way you organised your furniture or the cans of food in your cupboards..... plainly nonsense.

Computer code is not a tangible item, intellectual property laws have been defined mainly by huge multinationals to include this kind of appropriation by the public as theft. But this is wrong!!

Edited April 4, 2007 by ourmanflint

[Heng]

I think a better analogy (considering the audience here) would be, you open a bar in Pattaya called John's Bar and some other guy opened a bar right next door called Johnny's Bar... copying your exact format, employing the same quality ba_girls, etc., and charging less for beer. Nothing wrong with that at all, yes? All you have to do is lower your prices (again, and again, and again until you are both making 50 satang per bottle of beer) to happily compete.

[jeffrosner]

When I was a teenager, if a friend had a good LP we would copy it onto cassette, same with taping songs off the radio. Pleased that no one else here on TV engaged in similar criminal behaviour.

I imagine at one time most members needed to be clad in diapers when taken out in public. I hope they've grown out of that too.

Things change when you're an adult and expected to take care of yourself.

I misinterpreted one of your posts huh? I don't think so.

Helen Reddy song plays on radio. You record it. You play it in your car. You never bought the album.

Helen Reddy plays from an LP - your friend bought the album. You record it and play it in your car.

Explain the difference to all of us who need to be enlightened by your wisdom.

And spare all of us your scatological forays - stick to the topic at hand.

[jeffrosner]

After much thought... really!

I can find no rational way to justify piracy as theft.

It is not theft, it never was theft, this is a term those companies involved have incorrectly asserted, when in actual fact nothing of the sort is actually happening.

And contrary to anyones assertions here, it is not like stealing a laptop, car, loaf of bread or anything else tangible and real. A correct analogy would be to say that someone broke into your house and copied your the way you organised your furniture or the cans of food in your cupboards..... plainly nonsense.

Computer code is not a tangible item, intellectual property laws have been defined mainly by huge multinationals to include this kind of appropriation by the public as theft. But this is wrong!!

Are you ideas real?

How about your throughts?

[bendix]

After much thought... really!

I can find no rational way to justify piracy as theft.

It is not theft, it never was theft, this is a term those companies involved have incorrectly asserted, when in actual fact nothing of the sort is actually happening.

And contrary to anyones assertions here, it is not like stealing a laptop, car, loaf of bread or anything else tangible and real. A correct analogy would be to say that someone broke into your house and copied your the way you organised your furniture or the cans of food in your cupboards..... plainly nonsense.

Computer code is not a tangible item, intellectual property laws have been defined mainly by huge multinationals to include this kind of appropriation by the public as theft. But this is wrong!!

With all due respect, this is very wooly thinking. Are you suggesting that because computer code is not a tangible item, it can't be stolen or misappropriated? That is the reason the whole area of law is called INTELLECTUAL property - the ownership of ideas so that people cannot steal your ideas or the effort or originality you put into it.

Let's look at it this way? You spend 3 years writing a great novel. Immediately after publication, a pirated copy is on the streets selling for a dollar, compared to the $20 the shops sell the real copy for.

In this case, it has clearly been stolen. Neither the author nor the publisher (the two parties who brought your novel to the public) are getting rewarded for it. Instead, it has been stolen and the sales of the pirated copy are going to the thief. The people purchasing it are not, you're correct, technically stealing it BUT they are buying stolen goods, as I've asserted before.

Exactly the same applies to pirated cds, movies and software.

[jbsears]

How much is a legit copy of Windows in Thailand? I'm just wondering how much it would cost to set up a shop of 10 computers with Windows.