Visa Run Advice

[krey]

Hello All, Happy New Year.

 

So just a background story first.  I have been on the Thai Elite Visa for the last 5 years, living on and off in Thailand and it has been hassle free and worked well for me.  My Thai Elite Visa expires this month and I do not have plans to renew it at this stage.  I plan to head on home to Canada.  However, I am trying to avoid going back to Canada in the dead of Winter so trying to extend my stay here for a few more months. My Plan is as follows

 

1. Heading to Laos On Jan 20th a couple of days before my visa expires.  (decided on Laos as I got a friend there, going to hang out for 3 days with him)

2. Return to Thailand through Bangkok get my 30 day stamp, then head back to Chiang Mai and get a 30 day extension when that 30 days is almost up

3. Then leave the country again and do the 30 and 30 again,  That will take me into May of this year and I will head back to Canada.

 

So questions I have are the following:

1. I been told that doing two border runs in the same calendar year is pretty safe, probably won't get flagged, that correct?

2. Should I bring 20 000 Baht each time I come back into the country for these two border runs?

3. Should I buy a departure plane ticket as well to show to immigration if they ask for it or do you think they will request it?

4. If I should buy a departure plane ticket can I get the ticket for after the 30 day extension , just explain to the immigration officer that I plan to extend my visa after the 30 days then head out or should I be buying a throw away plane ticket for only 30 days after.

 

Just wanted to make sure I am prepared for anything and could use your advice.

Thanks All

[DrJack54]

??. Expires end of month. Exit and re-enter prior to expiry and obtain another year

 

[krey]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

??. Expires end of month. Exit and re-enter prior to expiry and obtain another year

 

yeah I have a whole post about that. I actually have a stamp that goes to Oct 2020.  However Thai Elite, two visa agencies and 2 immigration officers all told me that being in the country on an Expired Thai Elite Visa is considered an overstay even though some people on Thai Visa are on their 6th year with no problems and disagree.  Problem is I can't find anyone official saying that this is still legit.

 

So I am going the Tourist Visa border runs to get me into the warmer months and would rather have some advice on that.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, krey said:

yeah I have a whole post about that. I actually have a stamp that goes to Oct 2020.  However Thai Elite, two visa agencies and 2 immigration officers all told me that being in the country on an Expired Thai Elite Visa is considered an overstay even though some people on Thai Visa are on their 6th year with no problems and disagree.  Problem is I can't find anyone official saying that this is still legit.

 

So I am going the Tourist Visa border runs to get me into the warmer months and would rather have some advice on that.

I hope some of the "elite guys" will be along to advise. As for your question re use setv etc. First up you have 2 border exempt entries for 2020. You need plan carefully. Personally I would do my first entry via obtain 30day visa exempt. Then extend. Next obtain setv and extend. Then 2 border ve entries. Both with extensions. 

Something like that. Prior to last border extension try for another setv. If unsuccessful you have the border entry up your sleeve.

[mokwit]

38 minutes ago, krey said:

being in the country on an Expired Thai Elite Visa is considered an overstay

So basically because they changed the way they interpret things without telling anybody people who paid Bt1m for an elite Visa and thought they were legal is going to find rthey were on overstay and having paid 1m for along stay are going to get along ban. Couldn't make it up.

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, mokwit said:

So basically because they changed the way they interpret things without telling anybody people who paid Bt1m for an elite Visa and thought they were legal is going to find rthey were on overstay and having paid 1m for along stay are going to get along ban. Couldn't make it up.

I do not have an elite visa however the OP stated he has "until date" stamp Oct 2020.

If he obtains a re-entry permit I can't see why he could not exit re-enter up till that date. If I were him I would do a border bounce prior to expiry of his current elite visa. Hence he will be given new until date upon reentry ~ January 2021. 

Exactly the same as "bonus year" to a O-A

Edited January 1, 2020 by DrJack54

[krey]

46 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I hope some of the "elite guys" will be along to advise. As for your question re use setv etc. First up you have 2 border exempt entries for 2020. You need plan carefully. Personally I would do my first entry via obtain 30day visa exempt. Then extend. Next obtain setv and extend. Then 2 border ve entries. Both with extensions. 

Something like that. Prior to last border extension try for another setv. If unsuccessful you have the border entry up your sleeve.

hmm I have not had the SETV suggested to me.  You are talking about the 60 day Tourist Visa that you can apply in Laos then extended that for another 30 days?

 

I am a bit confused

1. You say first to the 30 day exempt and extend (which was my initial plan)  - why not do a 60 day SETV at Laos first?

 

[krey]

12 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I do not have an elite visa however the OP stated he has "until date" stamp Oct 2020.

If he obtains a re-entry permit I can't see why he could not exit re-enter up till that date. If I were him I would do a border bounce prior to expiry of his current elite visa. Hence he will be given new until date upon reentry ~ January 2021. 

Exactly the same as "bonus year" to a O-A

yeah in a way I  have already done my border bounce that as I left in October, if my oct 2020 stamp was 100% legit I be just fine with it, I only wanted to get to May or June.  However, as I have stated It seems risky as only unofficial people (people in this forum) said that I can stay on a expired visa with a good stamp.  Official reps have said the exact opposite.  

 

To be honest this was the reason I initial got the Thai Elite in the first place, to get away from the uncertainty but it has caught back up with me as the Thai Elite Ends:)

[BritTim]

The first visa exempt entry by air should be problem free (though I would definitely have the 20,000 baht cash equivalent with me just in case). I would recommend a friendly land crossing for the second visa exempt entry. Immigration has discretion to deny back-to-back visa exempt entries as a way of extending your stay in Thailand. Officials at some airports have been known to exercise that discretion.

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The first visa exempt entry by air should be problem free (though I would definitely have the 20,000 baht cash equivalent with me just in case). I would recommend a friendly land crossing for the second visa exempt entry. Immigration has discretion to deny back-to-back visa exempt entries as a way of extending your stay in Thailand. Officials at some airports have been known to exercise that discretion.

What about his current until date of Oct 2020. Also possibility of doing border bounce now before his elite visa expires. Can't he buy reentry and protect his current permission of stay date?

[DrJack54]

38 minutes ago, krey said:

hmm I have not had the SETV suggested to me.  You are talking about the 60 day Tourist Visa that you can apply in Laos then extended that for another 30 days?

 

I am a bit confused

1. You say first to the 30 day exempt and extend (which was my initial plan)  - why not do a 60 day SETV at Laos first?

 

You mention wish to stay till June 2020. Just get reentry permit. If imm not issue then return visa exempt. Obtain visa exempt and extend. That 60 days. You still then have 2 border entries available. For another air entry obtain setv. With an extension that's another 90 days. Save your border entries as air entry might become difficult.

[krey]

45 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The first visa exempt entry by air should be problem free (though I would definitely have the 20,000 baht cash equivalent with me just in case). I would recommend a friendly land crossing for the second visa exempt entry. Immigration has discretion to deny back-to-back visa exempt entries as a way of extending your stay in Thailand. Officials at some airports have been known to exercise that discretion.

interesting good advice, suggestions on best places to go from Chiang Mai? Mai Sai and Myanmar

[Peter Denis]

19 hours ago, krey said:

yeah I have a whole post about that. I actually have a stamp that goes to Oct 2020.  However Thai Elite, two visa agencies and 2 immigration officers all told me that being in the country on an Expired Thai Elite Visa is considered an overstay even though some people on Thai Visa are on their 6th year with no problems and disagree.  Problem is I can't find anyone official saying that this is still legit.

 

I simply cannot believe that you will be considered to be on overstay, after the expiry of your thai Elite Visa (January 2020) when you have a valid permission to stay (October 2020) stamped in your passport.

The fact that you mention several Elite Visa holders, that are staying in Thailand on the last granted permission to stay, after their 5 year Elite Visa validity has expired, is proof of that.

 

I presume that the 'official' advice that you got is based on the usual confusion between the validity of a Visa and the permission to stay it provides.

The validity of your Elite Visa expires somewhere January 2020 (let's presume 15 January 2020).

You have exited Thailand and re-entered in October 2019, and were then provided a permission to stay till October 2020.

 

When you exit Thailand and re-enter after your Visa validity expired (15 January 2020 in my example) you need to have a re-entry permit to keep your permission to stay (till Oct 2020) alive.  Such a re-entry permit (single entry - 1000 THB) or multiple-entry (3800 THB) can be bought at any IO or in the departure halls of the main thai international airports.  And you would need to buy such a re-entry permit BEFORE exiting Thailand.

As suggested by DrJack54 it is recommended to do a border-hop and re-enter Thailand just before your Visa validity expires (15 January 2020), as you will be stamped in again then for a full year permission to stay (till January 2021).  After that you will need re-entry permits when re-entering thailand during that permission to stay period.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Peter Denis

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

you need to have a re-entry permit to keep your permission to stay (till Oct 2020) alive.  Such a re-entry permit (single entry - 1000 THB) or multiple-entry (3800 THB) can be bought at any IO or in the departure halls of the main thai international airports.

I recall  one guy having problems with this, 2 IOs were arguing whether a re-entry permit could be issued on a Permission of Stay based on a currently expired Elite Visa. The senior IO won and he got the Permit. Are there many out there confirming this is OK?

[Peter Denis]

31 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I recall  one guy having problems with this, 2 IOs were arguing whether a re-entry permit could be issued on a Permission of Stay based on a currently expired Elite Visa. The senior IO won and he got the Permit. Are there many out there confirming this is OK?

Applying some logic here, although I know that's a tricky proposition in Thailand.

My reasoning is the following:

- In the present Elite Visa set-up, when exiting and re-entering Thailand you will be stamped in for a full year permission to stay; (e.g. the OP re-entered Thailand October 2019, and got stamped in till October 2020);

- If the Elite Visa would not allow you to stay in Thailand after its 5-year validity has expired, IO would not stamp you in for a full year, but only for the remaining time of the Visa validity;

- But since border-immigration stamps you in for a full year permission to stay, also when it goes beyond the Visa validity date (e.g. the OP's Visa Validity ends January 2020), you are allowed to stay in Thailand till the end of your permission to stay;

Note: It is logical that you will not have the ThaiElite Visa benefits anymore after expiry of the Visa, but you are formally allowed to stay in Thailand for the period your permission to stay grants you.

- When your Visa validity has expired, you will need a re-entry permit to keep that permission to stay alive, when exiting and wanting to re-enter Thailand during the permission to stay period.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But since border-immigration stamps you in for a full year permission to stay, also when it goes beyond the Visa validity date (e.g. the OP's Visa Validity ends January 2020), you are allowed to stay in Thailand till the end of your permission to stay;

There are circumstances where a Permission to Stay stamp date is no longer valid, one example would be a marriage extension, and one was to get divorced. We have had this discussion before wrt Elite and 5 or 6 years, I go along with your apparent perspective, but @elviajerowas presenting an opposing and persuasive argument. 

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There are circumstances where a Permission to Stay stamp date is no longer valid, one example would be a marriage extension, and one was to get divorced. We have had this discussion before wrt Elite and 5 or 6 years, I go along with your apparent perspective, but @elviajerowas presenting an opposing and persuasive argument. 

I looked it up and @elviajero confirmed in one of his earlier posts that a 5 Year Elite Visa can provide you with an extra 1 year permission to stay, when re-entering just before Visa validity expiry date.

[Snacks]

Seeking some advice here.

 

I have a METV and have been questioned in the past by immigration upon entering, but it was always pretty laid back. Was even told I had to enter on a non-tourist visa next time, but entered successfully several times after that warning. However this past week I got grilled hard! This IO was on a war path and seemed to be pulling many people aside for random issues not even related to visa stuff (taking pics in line, tape being used to repair their passport etc). Anyway, after like 20 minutes, she finally let me in after telling me I wouldn’t be allowed in this time. But the thing that scared me is she told the officer to enter me into the system that I could not enter on a tourist visa anymore.

 

Should I take this more serious than the previous warnings in the past, or is it still the same old deal (i.e. they just check my history like usual)?... the thing that makes me wonder if I should be more worried than normal is she let me in anyway, and she was like strenuously announcing it to me instead of just telling the IO to enter the info (my thinking being, if it was really a legit “note in the system” then I’d be denied anyway, no need for all the emphasis on warning me).

 

Lastly, I have no prob going to Laos to enter on the friendship bridge. Would be a fun trip as I’ve never been. Is the friendship bridge almost a sure thing? Better than Chaing Mai?

thanks in advance for all the advice. I’m honestly still a little shaken

[BritTim]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:02 PM, DrJack54 said:

What about his current until date of Oct 2020. Also possibility of doing border bounce now before his elite visa expires. Can't he buy reentry and protect his current permission of stay date?

I would personally attempt to get a re-entry permit to keep that permission to stay intact. I would have the visa exempt entry as a backup plan if (as some have reported) Immigration decides the permission to stay past the expiry date of the Elite visa is invalid.

[BritTim]

23 hours ago, krey said:

interesting good advice, suggestions on best places to go from Chiang Mai? Mai Sai and Myanmar

Especially if willing to make a little holiday out of it, Maesot, a friendly crossing in an area of natural beauty, is a good choice. There is also nothing wrong with Mae Sai, one option you raised.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I would personally attempt to get a re-entry permit to keep that permission to stay intact. I would have the visa exempt entry as a backup plan if (as some have reported) Immigration decides the permission to stay past the expiry date of the Elite visa is invalid.

True. BTW wasn't there a recent release from elite visa reps stating that the "extra year" was possible. Thinking that the elite company was stating the opposite perhaps for business reasons. Surprised that someone with an elite visa and currently on 6th year has not been along to clarify

Edited January 2, 2020 by DrJack54

[moontang]

Not scaremongering, but there are a few reports of people teaching legally and when their contracts end, they leave and attempt to re-enter on a TV and get denied because it is obvious that they care already living here.  Could have something to do with not properly cancelling the working visa, etc..  While teaching is a different animal, there are similarities to someone living here on an OA and then trying to do a border bounce and re-entering on a 30 day Stamp.  The one visa service that is doing daily runs from on nut, even discourages people trying to get 30s...which was formerly their biggest purpose.

[brianthainess]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:23 PM, krey said:

yeah I have a whole post about that. I actually have a stamp that goes to Oct 2020.  However Thai Elite, two visa agencies and 2 immigration officers all told me that being in the country on an Expired Thai Elite Visa is considered an overstay even though some people on Thai Visa are on their 6th year with no problems and disagree.  Problem is I can't find anyone official saying that this is still legit.

 

So I am going the Tourist Visa border runs to get me into the warmer months and would rather have some advice on that.

If you go and apply for a re-entry visa they will let you know if you'll get another year or not. init

Edited January 2, 2020 by brianthainess
hungover still

[krey]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

I would personally attempt to get a re-entry permit to keep that permission to stay intact. I would have the visa exempt entry as a backup plan if (as some have reported) Immigration decides the permission to stay past the expiry date of the Elite visa is invalid.

 

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

True. BTW wasn't there a recent release from elite visa reps stating that the "extra year" was possible. Thinking that the elite company was stating the opposite perhaps for business reasons. Surprised that someone with an elite visa and currently on 6th year has not been along to clarify

I do plan to try to get a re entry permit before I leave Chiang Mai, I mean I might as well at least try and use the Visa Exempt as backup.

DrJack54 - in a former post I mentioned how my friend who is also on Thai Elite actually went to their office and he talked to a rep there and she told him that he could stay the 6th year.  So I got that same rep contact information and sent her an email and she told me the exact opposite:) saying I could not do a 6th year.  The old meet you in real life I give you the information that you want to hear so there is no conflict was my friends thoughts on this:)

 

As I have said in the past the only reason I am concerned on this is I have yet to find anyone actually official say the 6th year is possible, all I have got so far is no from thai Elite, no from two visa agencies and no from 2 Chiang Mai Local immigration officers.

[krey]

Just an update for you guys

 

So today is the day I am heading out of the country.  Heading to Laos to meet up with a good friend for a few days.

1. My Thai Elite Expires Tomorrow

2. I am flying out Today

 

My plan was to just go and come back and get the 30 day stamp and then extend it for another 30 days at local immigration then do one more run and go back to Canada in May or so. 

 

There has been a lot of back and forth if I can stay here longer because in oct 2019 I left the country and came back and got a full year stamp allowing me to stay until Oct 2020.  However, Thai Elite, a couple of visa agencies and one guy at Chiang Mai local immigration said I could not stay with an expired visa, something that has been debated here on this post and probably many others.

 

So I just got to the airport and of course I decided to see if I could get a re entry stamp and take advantage of staying to October 2020 which is much longer than I need.

1. I went to the re entry permit office (4 officers were there and they all helped me with this)

2. I explained my Thai Elite officially expires tomorrow

3. I explained I have a stamp that allows me to stay in the kingdom until 2020 of october.

4. I asked can I stay in the country if I get a re entry stamp now and come back.  I stressed many times my Visa will be expired when I come back.

5. They all said I can come back, I can stay until October 2020 with no problems, just need to do the 90 day check in and if I want to leave and come back before october 2020 I will of course have to get the re entry stamp once again.

 

It totally amazes me that everyone has a different answer but it is nice to at least hear the airport staff are the ones saying that this can be done.

 

Anyway I got the re entry stamp and I am off to Laos, will be back in a few days and will see if I have any problems getting back in to the country.

 

Thanks!