Is SWIFT the only option to send my money back to USA?

[wpcoe]

I find myself wanting to send THB800,000 back to the USA.

 

Transferwise:  doesn't do transfers out of Thailand

DeeMoney:  doesn't recognize my US credit union nor Fidelity Investments

XE.com: doesn't do transfers out of Thailand

 

Are there easy, less expensive ways to ship my money back other than SWIFT?  I have both Bangkok Bank and SCB savings accounts.  Is one of those better (faster/cheaper) than the other?  My SCB bank book shows the import of the THB800k via two transactions in October 2019.

[mshs]

All USD transactions go through SWIFT. 

 

If the question is how to avoid bank reporting of over $10,000, the answer is, there is none.  Attempts to transact smaller sums, may meet failure with smurfing.

 

[wpcoe]

Oh.  I thought Transferwise, DeeMoney and XE used a non-SWIFT mechanism to move money around.

 

I'm not concerned about them reporting the transfer, I'm just repatriating funds that I transferred to Thailand a couple months ago.  Nothing to hide.

[saengd]

If you can show that the funds came into Thailand from overseas you can approach the bank that imported the money for you and ask them to send an equivalent amount back again, people do it all the time. SWIFT is the only game in town for this, other than Western Union which is far more expensive.

Edited January 3, 2020 by saengd

[Sheryl]

36 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Oh.  I thought Transferwise, DeeMoney and XE used a non-SWIFT mechanism to move money around.

 

I'm not concerned about them reporting the transfer, I'm just repatriating funds that I transferred to Thailand a couple months ago.  Nothing to hide.

I'm pretty sure they do.  But as you discovered TW and CE won't transfer Thailand to US. Dee Money will, but your problem is your particular bank.

 

I would say the only options are either SWIFT or, if there is someone back home whom you totally trust with a bank account Dee Money can transfer to, send to them and have them transfer or mail a check to your bank.

 

Actually with that large an amount the savings from using other than SWIFT are usually small.... It is  with small transfers that SWIFT is comparatively costly, especially multiple small transfers. Might not be worth the hassle trying to do it any other way.

[kwonitoy]

550 Baht commission (bank fee)

800 Baht Bank Charge

 

At SCB for transfer of up to 50,000 USD per day, as allowed by law.

As done by myself Sept 16 to clear out the last of my condo sale.

[wpcoe]

2 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

550 Baht commission (bank fee)

800 Baht Bank Charge

 

At SCB for transfer of up to 50,000 USD per day, as allowed by law.

As done by myself Sept 16 to clear out the last of my condo sale.

That isn't as expensive as I had envisioned.  Incoming transfers via Bangkok Bank had some % fee tacked on for currency conversion.  Thanks!

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, wpcoe said:

That isn't as expensive as I had envisioned.  Incoming transfers via Bangkok Bank had some % fee tacked on for currency conversion.  Thanks!

Incoming: 0.5% fee, minimum 200, maximum 500THB. Also not exactly expensive ????

[Pib]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Incoming: 0.5% fee, minimum 200, maximum 500THB. Also not exactly expensive ????

It's 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max)

[kwonitoy]

21 hours ago, wpcoe said:

That isn't as expensive as I had envisioned.  Incoming transfers via Bangkok Bank had some % fee tacked on for currency conversion.  Thanks!

I sent the money in USD from Thailand to my offshore account.

The 800 baht fee is the charge for sending as USD for ANY amount.

It's crazy how cheap it is really.

If I had sent baht and converted to USD on the other end I would have gotten scalped, those banks know how to do bank charges.

Transfer money, use a bank.

[saengd]

29 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

I sent the money in USD from Thailand to my offshore account.

The 800 baht fee is the charge for sending as USD for ANY amount.

It's crazy how cheap it is really.

If I had sent baht and converted to USD on the other end I would have gotten scalped, those banks know how to do bank charges.

Transfer money, use a bank.

You can't send Baht from Thailand and have it exchanged by the receiving bank overseas, neither the bank nor you are allowed to send Baht out of the country, with one or two minor exceptions to China.

[wpcoe]

For the love of all that is holy, this simple () return of my funds to the USA is taking way too much of my time and energy (and money to win drivers shuttling me from bank to bank.)

 

In October 2019, I had transferred B800k into SCB from my US bank using Transferwise.  I thought the purpose of selecting "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" on the Transferwise drop-down menu for "Reason of your transfer"  was so that the transfer would show up in the SCB account as an international transfer.  Not so fast, Kimosabe.  It showed up at SCB as  *domestic* transfers from Bangkok Bank...

 

After a 30-min wait at SCB, I was shooed off to Bangkok Bank to get FETFs for the two transfers (totalling B800k).  That only took an additional 1h15m of waiting time.  The FETFs "should" be ready in a day or two.

</rant over>

 

When I printed off  Fidelity's instructions to receive a transfer I notice at the top:

 

 

Fidelity Investments is not on the list of recipients for DeeMoney, but J.P. Morgan Chase is.  According to Fidelity the info above is for a domestic wire transfer,so does that mean that I *can* use DeeMoney to transfer to Fidelity (via Chase?). I'd *so* like to do this transfer from the air conditioned comfort of my home on a computer rather than racing all around town.

Edited January 6, 2020 by wpcoe
correct Transferwise terminology

[saengd]

Why not ask Fidelity if that routing number will work from overseas, I can't see why it wouldn't.

 

But if your question is about currency and the line at the top, "Instructions for US Dollars only"...... your sending bank will convert your Baht into USD so yes, that part is fine. 

[Pib]

I love some transfer instructions....how the funds need to go thru numerous intermediaries before arriving your acct. 

 

Like above where wpcoe would need to transfer baht from his Thai bank acct to DeeMoney to fund the USD transfer.  DeeMoney routes it to their US partner (whoever that is...but not really important)...the US partner relays it J.P. Morgan Chase who relays it to National Financial Services LLC which is subsidiary of Fidelity....and finally it gets back to the customer's Fidelity acct.

 

While sounding complicated, it should work just fine.  It's common for many US banks/brokerage/financial companies not to have SWIFT codes; instead, the funds are sent to the bank's ABA routing number through an intermediary or two and a SWIFT code may never be used anywhere along the way. 

 

 

 

 

[wpcoe]

Thanks for the reassurances.  I think I'll give DeeMoney a shot.  If I do, I'll report back here how it went.

[wpcoe]

As threatened, here I am to report on sending money via deemoney.com.  They sure don't make it a logical, easy process.  After signing in with my mobile # and PIN I got the following screens, when I go to add a recipient:

 

Notice the error in the last screen:  "ACH Code is required."  That pops up when clicking on "SAVE".  None of the previous screens leading up to that one had a field to enter an ACH code.

 

Beyond that, I'm kind of relieved that attempt failed.  At no point was I asked for my Fidelity account info ("For the benefit of" and "For final credit to" as asked for from Fidelity ... see my screen shot in previous post).  If that transfer were sent to Chase with the info requested, what exactly would Fidelity be able to do with the money?

 

For recipient detail, I tried both my US mailing address and a Fidelity address.  Both failed with the ACH error, but which one do they really want?

 

Also, why ask for a mobile number for the recipient in America?  Do I need to be there to receive some OTP or other message?

 

The link in the first screen "For Account Number format, please click here" leads to https://www.deemoney.com/transfer-fee-savings/#usa, and there is no info on account # formatting on that page, but there is a clickable link "Just enter your recipient’s details and credit your account in one of three ways."  That link simply leads to the DeeMoney home page.

 

Oy vey.

 

PS:  Okay, I just tried it on my mobile phone and the first screen on the app *does* have a field for the ACH #.  The web page as shown above does not...

 

Now that I've successfully set up a USA recipient in my name using the Chase ACH and Fidelity's account number at Chase, but no further instructions to Fidelity, do I dare send B800,000?

Edited January 6, 2020 by wpcoe
add PS

[Sheryl]

Contact Dee Money via Line and ask them what to do.

[wpcoe]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Contact Dee Money via Line and ask them what to do.

Yeah.  That's my next step.  Their support call center closed an hour ago, so I now have a project for tomorrow.  

 

I pushed the envelope and proceeded on the app and after a few false starts (e.g. a payment option that they show, but which has been discontinued...) I got to a screen with a QR code:

 

 

...and no instructions what to do with it!  Can they possibly make the process any more vague, unintuitive, or confusing?  I'm *hoping* that if nothing is done with that QR code in the next three hours, it will just cancel the process.

 

PS:  Just noticed you said to contact them via Line.  I don't have Line.  Also, I cannot imagine the convoluted chat conversation that would ensue.  I'd do better with a telephone call to their support call center, I think.

Edited January 6, 2020 by wpcoe
add PS

[Sheryl]

Actually they prefer you use Line and it has the advantage of leaving a written transcript.  Many Thais do better with Line as their reading comprehension is better than their listening. And their writing gets around problems in their pronunciation which can otherwise be hard to folliw on the phone.

 

If you know anyone who has Line (it is a smart phone app most Thais use) see if they can help you. May go better than phone call.

 

Unless you are in Bangkok. In that case a trip to the Dee Money office would pribably yield the fastest resolution.

[Pib]

12 hours ago, wpcoe said:

 

The link in the first screen "For Account Number format, please click here" leads to https://www.deemoney.com/transfer-fee-savings/#usa, and there is no info on account # formatting on that page, but there is a clickable link "Just enter your recipient’s details and credit your account in one of three ways."  That link simply leads to the DeeMoney home page.

 

Setting up a Recipient in DeeMoney via browser or App is a little different.  The Mobile app will ask for the ACH number and account number in separate entry fields.  However, when logged on via browser the "ACH Routing number and account number" is all entered in the account number field in the following format....basically enter the ACH number and acct number "separated by a dash."  There is no separate ACH field like when using the app.  See below DeeMoney webpage and snapshot.

 

https://www.deemoney.com/send-money-from-thailand-to-united-states/

 

[DeeMoney]

Wpcoe, thank you for giving us a try.

 

We recognize that the process of sending money through our app is not exactly intuitive or detailed/helpful enough for a first-time user to understand what is needed to be done. That is why we have been working on creating tutorial videos to solve this issue.

 

As for the QR code, you will need to access your bank's mobile application (K-plus for Kasikorn, SCB Easy for SCB, etc.) and start a transfer using the QR code option. After that is finished, the process is complete. 

 

In addition to Line and telephone, our customer support is also contactable through email at [email protected].

Edited January 7, 2020 by DeeMoney

[Pib]

12 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Yeah.  That's my next step.  Their support call center closed an hour ago, so I now have a project for tomorrow.  

 

I pushed the envelope and proceeded on the app and after a few false starts (e.g. a payment option that they show, but which has been discontinued...) I got to a screen with a QR code:

 

 

...and no instructions what to do with it!  Can they possibly make the process any more vague, unintuitive, or confusing?  I'm *hoping* that if nothing is done with that QR code in the next three hours, it will just cancel the process.

 

PS:  Just noticed you said to contact them via Line.  I don't have Line.  Also, I cannot imagine the convoluted chat conversation that would ensue.  I'd do better with a telephone call to their support call center, I think.

See below DeeMoney webpage/video on how to pay via QR Code.  Very easy...of course you will need to use your Thai  bank mobile banking app to make the QR payment.  Basically the QR code that DeeMoney shows you needs to be scanned using your Thai bank mobile app QR/Scan Payment section....then just follow the instructions of your banking app.  

 

Personally, rather than using the DeeMoney app to initiate a transfer and pay via QR Payment...that is using nothing but my mobile phone....I prefer to initiate the transfer via my computer browser and .when DeeMoney displays the QR payment code I then use my Thai bank mobile banking app to scan that code on my computer screen and complete the payment....the payment is literally instant.

 

https://help.deemoney.com/how-to-use-the-application/qr-code-payment

 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, DeeMoney said:

Wpcoe, thank you for giving us a try.

 

We recognize that the process of sending money through our app is not exactly intuitive or detailed/helpful enough for a first-time user to understand what is needed to be done. That is why we have been working on creating tutorial videos to solve this issue.

 

As for the QR code, you will need to access your bank's mobile application (K-plus for Kasikorn, SCB Easy for SCB, etc.) and start a transfer using the QR code option. After that is finished, the process is complete. 

 

In addition to Line and telephone, our customer support is also contactable through email at [email protected].

I would recommend you modify the Recipient setup when using a browser to include a "separate" ACH routing field versus the current setup of needing to enter the ACH Routing number and account number in one field...in the account number field. 

 

When I see Account Number a person does not think "ACH routing number plus account" number....they think only account number.  In US ibanking when setting up an ACH transfer to another bank account a person has two separate fields to identify that other bank....an ABA/ACH Routing number field and an Account number field....two separate fields.

 

I too stumbled all over getting a US bank recipient setup in DeeMoney when using it for the first time because links within DeeMoney did not clearly lead to and show this unique format required...I had to dig for it.  Just confusing that person must enter ACH routing number "and" account number separated by a dash in a field that's titled Account Number.

 

[wpcoe]

8 hours ago, DeeMoney said:

Wpcoe, thank you for giving us a try.

 

We recognize that the process of sending money through our app is not exactly intuitive or detailed/helpful enough for a first-time user to understand what is needed to be done. That is why we have been working on creating tutorial videos to solve this issue.

 

As for the QR code, you will need to access your bank's mobile application (K-plus for Kasikorn, SCB Easy for SCB, etc.) and start a transfer using the QR code option. After that is finished, the process is complete. 

 

In addition to Line and telephone, our customer support is also contactable through email at [email protected].

While I have your ear:

 

I'm trying to send THB800,000 from SCB via DeeMoney to Fidelity Investments in the USA.  Here's the Fidelity info from their web site:

 

 

I understand that DeeMoney can send the money to Chase bank and credit to Fidelity's account, BUT... Fidelity needs to know where to credit it internally (i.e. my name and Fidelity account number.)

 

Can Dee Money send that additional information:

 

1 -   "For the benefit of" (my name), and

2 -  "For final credit to" (Fidelity account number)

 

when transferring the money to Chase?

 

[edited to add:] An additional field on the "Add recipient" screen such as "Instructions" or "Comments" would work for a user.  Not sure if DeeMoney can implement such an extra bit of data to transmit, though.

 

Thank you for acknowledging that the DeeMoney process is not perfect for users.  I appreciate that refreshing big of candor.  However, may I humbly suggest that, rather than spending resources to create band-aid tutorial videos to handle a poor process implementation, that you fix the problem itself:  implement a process that *is* intuitive and helpful for users.  You've currently got a solid platform, it just could use a few tweaks.

 

There is a real need for a service such as DeeMoney, but the process needs to be more easily understood.

Edited January 7, 2020 by wpcoe

[wpcoe]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

I would recommend you modify the Recipient setup when using a browser to include a "separate" ACH routing field versus the current setup of needing to enter the ACH Routing number and account number in one field...in the account number field. 

 

When I see Account Number a person does not think "ACH routing number plus account" number....they think only account number.  In US ibanking when setting up an ACH transfer to another bank account a person has two separate fields to identify that other bank....an ABA/ACH Routing number field and an Account number field....two separate fields.

Actually, their smart phone app is set up just the way you suggest.  It's the web site that doesn't have an ACH field.

 

JOOC, how did you figure out to put the "ACH routing number plus account number" in the account number field, and how did you format it?  (Separated by a space?  Separated by a comma? Or, ...?)

 

Never mind the previous paragraph.  Somehow I missed your last paragraph with the link.  That is a different web page than I used and did not have the format listed.

Edited January 7, 2020 by wpcoe

[wpcoe]

31 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Actually, their smart phone app is set up just the way you suggest.  It's the web site that doesn't have an ACH field.

 

JOOC, how did you figure out to put the "ACH routing number plus account number" in the account number field, and how did you format it?  (Separated by a space?  Separated by a comma? Or, ...?)

 

Never mind the previous paragraph.  Somehow I missed your last paragraph with the link.  That is a different web page than I used and did not have the format listed.

NVM that entire post.  Somehow I totally missed @Pib's Post #20 where he explained all that...  

[Monomial]

12 hours ago, wpcoe said:

While I have your ear:

 

I'm trying to send THB800,000 from SCB via DeeMoney to Fidelity Investments in the USA.  Here's the Fidelity info from their web site:

 

 

I understand that DeeMoney can send the money to Chase bank and credit to Fidelity's account, BUT... Fidelity needs to know where to credit it internally (i.e. my name and Fidelity account number.)

 

Can Dee Money send that additional information:

 

1 -   "For the benefit of" (my name), and

2 -  "For final credit to" (Fidelity account number)

 

when transferring the money to Chase?

 

 

 

I think you will find the answer to this is "No, they can not". ACH (in this case it would be an ACH credit transaction) is essentially nothing more than an electronic check. I don't believe there are fields on the back end system to enter this information. 

 

In truth, you may also find that Fidelity Investments will not even accept your deposit through DeeMoney because it won't show that the money is coming from your account. it will likely appear to be a 3rd party deposit from DeeMoney's partner in the USA. Although it is possible with the IAT format that problem is solved, but I have no idea if anyone actually uses IAT for this purpose.

 

The fields you state above however, are only available via the SWIFT network, which is an interbank messaging network, not a settlement network.  A money transfer via SWIFT/BIC is actually done through intermediary bank accounts. The SWIFT network itslef just passes messages to participating banks that tell them where to deduct and how to credit.

 

 

You need to contact Fidelity and ask them for new instructions for a Western Union transfer.  If they can't accept Western Union, then they almost certainly can't accept DeeMoney either.

 

Edit:

 

Looking at the instructions from Fidelity, these instructions are domestic "wire" transfer instructions. Not an ACH transfer. These are not the same things.  You need to find out if Fidelity can accept an ACH Credit Transaction. That is what DeeMoney will probably be using for the US side deposit.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Monomial

[wpcoe]

@Monomial  Thanks.  I didn't know what mechanism DeeMoney was using to move the money around.  If it's ACH, then I agree that it won't be possible.

 

I also didn't know that Fidelity wouldn't accept third-party transfers.  You mean my rich uncle (I wish...) wouldn't be able to transfer millions of dollars in my Fidelity account?

 

In other news, yesterday Bangkok Bank came through with the FETFs for my Transferwise transfers into Thailand, so I'm waiting for SCB to open this morning to return and (hopefully!) do a more traditional SWIFT transfer to Fidelity.

[wpcoe]

7 hours ago, wpcoe said:

@Monomial  Thanks.  I didn't know what mechanism DeeMoney was using to move the money around.  If it's ACH, then I agree that it won't be possible.

 

I also didn't know that Fidelity wouldn't accept third-party transfers.  You mean my rich uncle (I wish...) wouldn't be able to transfer millions of dollars in my Fidelity account?

 

In other news, yesterday Bangkok Bank came through with the FETFs for my Transferwise transfers into Thailand, so I'm waiting for SCB to open this morning to return and (hopefully!) do a more traditional SWIFT transfer to Fidelity.

The denouement:

 

After *five* visits to branches of two banks (SCB & Bangkok Bank) I finally managed to get a regular, old-fashioned SWIFT transfer sent today.  Things are getting way too complicated for me these days.  I'm sure most of it is me getting old, but things seem increasingly complicated these days.

[DeeMoney]

On 1/7/2020 at 10:13 AM, Pib said:

I would recommend you modify the Recipient setup when using a browser to include a "separate" ACH routing field versus the current setup of needing to enter the ACH Routing number and account number in one field...in the account number field. 

 

When I see Account Number a person does not think "ACH routing number plus account" number....they think only account number.  In US ibanking when setting up an ACH transfer to another bank account a person has two separate fields to identify that other bank....an ABA/ACH Routing number field and an Account number field....two separate fields.

 

I too stumbled all over getting a US bank recipient setup in DeeMoney when using it for the first time because links within DeeMoney did not clearly lead to and show this unique format required...I had to dig for it.  Just confusing that person must enter ACH routing number "and" account number separated by a dash in a field that's titled Account Number.

 

Thanks for the feedback. We are currently working on updating the transfer service on the website to match our mobile application. 

 

1 hour ago, wpcoe said:

The denouement:

 

After *five* visits to branches of two banks (SCB & Bangkok Bank) I finally managed to get a regular, old-fashioned SWIFT transfer sent today.  Things are getting way too complicated for me these days.  I'm sure most of it is me getting old, but things seem increasingly complicated these days.

Glad to hear that you could finally send the money. Although yours, Monomial, and Pib's suspicions are correct. The transaction to Fidelity will not be able to show that you exactly have sent the  money. However, we are able to include a special comment but this needs to be done manually.

 

The process involves phoning our customer support as soon as you have sent the money and informing them that you require a special comment in your transaction. If Fidelity accepts such a comment, then it means DeeMoney is able to do Fidelity transactions. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by DeeMoney