Spurs like John Wayne

[Formaleins]

Does this make sense or is it a big no no? I want to put some electrical points outside, possible a few sockets or possibly a few lights. I have (as some will know) just installed new 25mm SQ cables from the road to the house which is a bit over 100M. What I wanted to do was keep the new cables intact and not cut and join them, but go and remove the insulation from them at certain points, then clamp on some copper 2.5mm spurs to come down the support poles and fit sockets or lights. If I bare the aluminium cable for maybe 4 or 5 inches without cutting the conductors, then wrapping the copper 2.5mm cable around the core and clamping these together and insulating them with various tapes- dropping them into a safety cut out and then into an socket or light fitting - would this be safe? See my masterpiece sketch.....

[147SAG]

Are you Thai? No no no dont do it. Not safe at all.

[Formaleins]

1 minute ago, 147SAG said:

Are you Thai? No no no dont do it. Not safe at all.

Why? what is the difference in stripping the insulation as opposed to cutting the cable? No I am not Thai and Thais are persona non grata when it comes to my electrics. I see nothing wrong with the idea as long as it is jointed tightly and is fed to a breaker but I just wanted to ask the question. Your reply answers nothing - Why is it unsafe?

[147SAG]

Run a conduit from house breaker back out to where ever you need it.

[bluesofa]

Spurs like John Wayne?

 

Just to be frivolous, I think it would be more likely Arsenal like John Wayne, owing to that famous line of his, "Stick yer hands up yer bum."

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

Why? what is the difference in stripping the insulation as opposed to cutting the cable? No I am not Thai and Thais are persona non grata when it comes to my electrics. I see nothing wrong with the idea as long as it is jointed tightly and is fed to a breaker but I just wanted to ask the question. Your reply answers nothing - Why is it unsafe?

In principle there is nothing wrong with tapping of the incoming cables. However there are a few different things wrong with your idea.

1) copper cable wrapped round aluminium, No, galvanic corrosion.

2) stripping the insulation without reinstating it perfectly water tight, NO and not possible.

3) no earthing, Hell NO

4) simple breaker, missing RCCB

5) you obviously don’t have proper any way to isolate the supply.

 

So apart from the fact that is completely against PEA/MEA regs bite the bullet and don’t try to outdo the Thai electricians in bad ideas and run a supply from you house.

[wayned]

Just use a safety pin like the Tais do and wrap it (or not) in with tape, any kind avaiable.  Sometime stop and look at the way the decorative lights at Thai celebrations are wired.  At least that's the way my local "sparky" does it and he owns one od the decorative light supply and extremely loud music coglomerates in the village.

[Metropolitian]

I can understand when the tap will be far away from the home, and just near the incoming cable.

You could see it as a 'mini personally owned pea/mea line' with taps, like on camps and resorts, but before my comment continue I would like you to overthink the practice and cost and perhaps better to  use a cable from the home to the point (sheltered one) where you need electric instead.

And important: When you go for the tap, and consequently breaker(box) and so, the main breakers ought to be smaller. Both at the tap and the house as they are behind one meter.

 

I will split my comment in two parts, the wire side and the breaker side.

 

Wire:

Use good taps, one that bites in the cable penetrating the isolation and making contact with sharp teeth and containing a jelly substance for waterproofing. Then you do not need to remove the isolation from the (new) cable.

Do search for insulated line taps

 

Breaker:

Not use just a single breaker.

It's outside, and taping off from a sub-main wire. Then you should consider a small shed, which has a small consumer unit. Put a good long rod in the ground for earthing and from there you have access to electric points. Main breaker, RCBO breakers in there.

 

If you already have an fixed meter, you could use 50amp for the house and 16amp in the shed as main breaker.  Or share even, 32amp and 32amp. If you have a temporary meter, wait with all this and just have a 50amp mains in the house.

 

All assuming you have a single phase 15(45) meter.

[farmerjo]

At my last pole next to buildings,the main cable goes to an AVR then spurs off at 5 points after,2 x houses,workshop,outside kitchen/sala and bore pump.Each spur they cut through the insulation,used clamps then wrapped with insulation tape but did notice where they cut the main line in one section to length and it appears they just used copper to join so will ask why they didn't clamp next time i see them.(thanks to the poster pointing that out) 

Each area has their own protection.

 

[tjo o tjim]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:44 AM, Metropolitian said:

Do search for insulated line taps

I love Kup-L-Taps, but I’m not sure I would use them in this application.  I would worry about the aluminum cables getting a good connection on the teeth. I would just use a split bolt tap with 25mm tap conductors down to the disconnect, and a proper cold-shrink and tape cover. 
 

I do agree with the statements that you shouldn’t do it just for one outlet.  Put in a panel, proper ground rod and RBCD, and good shade/rain protection. You don’t want to make this a habit. 

[Formaleins]

On 1/5/2020 at 10:51 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

In principle there is nothing wrong with tapping of the incoming cables. However there are a few different things wrong with your idea.

1) copper cable wrapped round aluminium, No, galvanic corrosion.

2) stripping the insulation without reinstating it perfectly water tight, NO and not possible.

3) no earthing, Hell NO

4) simple breaker, missing RCCB

5) you obviously don’t have proper any way to isolate the supply.

 

So apart from the fact that is completely against PEA/MEA regs bite the bullet and don’t try to outdo the Thai electricians in bad ideas and run a supply from you house.

Sorry if the post was unclear, but it would be an aluminium spur onto the aluminium cable.

The insulation that was stripped would be re covered with 3M self Amalgamating tape then re covered with 3M Insulating tape.

Earthing? What should I earth? The live or the neutral? I can only earth anything that is connected to the single phase as PEA do not supply an earth.

Breaker - well, I would have a 60A isolation breaker followed by the <deleted>ty Chang 15A MCB or whatever it is, pretty useless in my experience anyway, it will fry you.

Isolating the supply is missing off my horrible sketch, but it would be one of those throw breakers that Chang supply, 60 amp jobs that melt at under 30 Amp.

 

Other than that, looks like it meets all the requirements don't you think?

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Formaleins said:

Sorry if the post was unclear, but it would be an aluminium spur onto the aluminium cable.

The insulation that was stripped would be re covered with 3M self Amalgamating tape then re covered with 3M Insulating tape.

Earthing? What should I earth? The live or the neutral? I can only earth anything that is connected to the single phase as PEA do not supply an earth.

Breaker - well, I would have a 60A isolation breaker followed by the <deleted>ty Chang 15A MCB or whatever it is, pretty useless in my experience anyway, it will fry you.

Isolating the supply is missing off my horrible sketch, but it would be one of those throw breakers that Chang supply, 60 amp jobs that melt at under 30 Amp.

 

Other than that, looks like it meets all the requirements don't you think?

Use the proper cable clamps as mentioned above that bite into the cable, insulate and seal the joint. While if you use enough of the 3M amalgamating tape you need clamps to hold the cables together (just winding one round the other is a bodge job worthy of any village idiot) and that isn’t going to be easy to insulate.

 

You, as has been mentioned should treat it in the same way as any incoming CU. So RCCB and earthing rod probably a MEN link as well. 
 

So no it didn’t meet all the requirements. The RCCB is even more important as it’s an outdoor supply, giving better chances of a shocking experience.

Edited January 13, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[yapos]

If you have just installed new 25mm SQ cables from the road to the house which is a bit over 100M. And you want to keep the new cables intact and not cut and join them okay, but go and remove the insulation from them at certain points, then clamp on some copper 2.5mm.it will be okay.

Edited January 14, 2020 by yapos

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, yapos said:

If you have just installed new 25mm SQ cables from the road to the house which is a bit over 100M. And you want to keep the new cables intact and not cut and join them okay, but go and remove the insulation from them at certain points, then clamp on some copper 2.5mm.it will be okay.

So you didn’t bother to read the thread before posting?

[Crossy]

About 2 bucks a pop from aliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979269190.html

 

Wear your Marigolds and you can install them live. Finish with amalgamating tape if you wish.

 

No, that bolt is not live ????

 

 

 

 

[tjo o tjim]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

About 2 bucks a pop from aliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979269190.html