Priorities?

[sambum]

Every day we seem to be seeing headlines of Immigration busting more people for "overstay" and then jailed and deported- sometimes for just a few days. 

 

While I agree that this is illegal, surely there are more important things for the Police and Immigration to concentrate on, (Like people playing Bridge or Darts, for instance - not!) and the sentences handed out for certain offences are sometimes what we "guests" would describe as a big joke. (Pun intended)

 

We are visitors to this country, and as such, do not really have a voice in the way the country is run, but if Thailand is trying to promote tourism (As the Chief of Immigration put it - "because we need their money") then surely the emphasis should be on making the country a more attractive place to visit, and eliminating proper crime and violence, rather than hounding people who are already here?  

 

[Beggar]

I think many countries will prosecute people without valid visa. Why should Thailand be different? Simply look that that you have a valid visa and there will be no problems. 

[samsensam]

 

and eliminating proper crime and violence, rather than hounding people who are already here?  

 

do you have a definition for 'proper' crime as opposed to 'improper' crime?!

 

can you give examples where people are being hounded? i've never met anyone here complaining about being hounded by the authorities

 

if you dont want to do the time, don't do the crime. get the appropriate visa. common sense. easy.

[Pravda]

3 minutes ago, Beggar said:

I think many countries will prosecute people without valid visa. Why should Thailand be different? Simply look that that you have a valid visa and there will be no problems. 

 

Yes, very good point.

 

I also think US should charge every one of their citizens for visiting girly bar establishments for human trafficking, but they don't.

 

Wonder why genius? 

[sambum]

5 minutes ago, Beggar said:

I think many countries will prosecute people without valid visa. Why should Thailand be different? Simply look that that you have a valid visa and there will be no problems. 

"While I agree that this is illegal" - the post is about priorities!

 

7 minutes ago, Beggar said:

 

6 minutes ago, Beggar said:

 

 

[sambum]

11 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

and eliminating proper crime and violence, rather than hounding people who are already here?  

 

do you have a definition for 'proper' crime as opposed to 'improper' crime?!

 

can you give examples where people are being hounded? i've never met anyone here complaining about being hounded by the authorities

 

if you dont want to do the time, don't do the crime. get the appropriate visa. common sense. easy.

"While I agree that this is illegal,"  - the post is about priorities!

 

Point taken re "proper" and "improper" - would "serious crime" be more acceptable to you?

Edited January 10, 2020 by sambum

[Beggar]

9 minutes ago, sambum said:

"While I agree that this is illegal" - the post is about priorities!

 

 

I have the feeling that they find many of such overstayers because the did something wrong like not paying bills or working without work permit. I guess if they actively look for overstayers their success rate might be much higher. 

[userabcd]

Thailand is already a pretty unique, attractive and easy going place, this is the attraction for 30 to 40 million visitors every year.

 

Imagine the visa clamp downs and immigration controls started after some of those terrorist events in Bangkok carried out by foreign nationals.

 

The Thai authorities are simply not going to ease their way of managing foreign visitors in Thailand and are not hounding anybody.

Edited January 10, 2020 by userabcd

[OneMoreFarang]

44 minutes ago, sambum said:

Every day we seem to be seeing headlines of Immigration busting more people for "overstay" and then jailed and deported- sometimes for just a few days. 

 

While I agree that this is illegal, surely there are more important things for the Police and Immigration to concentrate on, (Like people playing Bridge or Darts, for instance - not!) and the sentences handed out for certain offences are sometimes what we "guests" would describe as a big joke. (Pun intended)

 

We are visitors to this country, and as such, do not really have a voice in the way the country is run, but if Thailand is trying to promote tourism (As the Chief of Immigration put it - "because we need their money") then surely the emphasis should be on making the country a more attractive place to visit, and eliminating proper crime and violence, rather than hounding people who are already here?  

Reading your comment it seems you are wondering about the big concept behind this. Why does this and that happen and not something else.

Here is a surprise for you. There is no big concept in Thailand and there is no logic. You can search and analyze this for years and you won't find any concept or logic because it isn't there.

There is a very easy solution: Don't expect logic. Don't expect any concept or planning.

Problem solved. Don't think - be happy.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, Beggar said:

I have the feeling that they find many of such overstayers because the did something wrong like not paying bills or working without work permit. I guess if they actively look for overstayers their success rate might be much higher. 

Or fell out with their neighbours! 

[Beggar]

19 minutes ago, sambum said:

Or fell out with their neighbours! 

Always make your Wai high enough! 

[Aspaltso]

My opinion on this matter is that Thailand wants the tourist dollars that would come if hordes of new arrivals begin to come more frequently in particular from new developing economies(China, India, etc.) and they want to get rid expats(mostly westerners)who have accumulated here over the last 20 years(i.e through marriages with Thai women, retirees with not the required amount income in their bank account etc. You cannot be angry at them for this stance since its their country and they can decide how they want it run(even if it is wrong, or ridiculous. Since tourism has been a very large part of the economy here, they can decide who they want, and don't want coming in. Right now, they want Chinese, and Indians. For me, I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago after living in Thailand. They don't particularly care for me( a white male), so I left the country and never intend on living there ever again. My approach to a country like Thailand is to leave. Me as a western man will never get the benefit of the doubt, and the authorities can move the goal posts at anytime. Like Rambo said to the Christian Missionaries traveling in Myanmar in Rambo 4. "Just Leave"

[sambum]

6 hours ago, userabcd said:

Thailand is already a pretty unique, attractive and easy going place, this is the attraction for 30 to 40 million visitors every year.

 

Imagine the visa clamp downs and immigration controls started after some of those terrorist events in Bangkok carried out by foreign nationals.

 

The Thai authorities are simply not going to ease their way of managing foreign visitors in Thailand and are not hounding anybody.

"Thailand is already a pretty unique, attractive and easy going place"

Are you suggesting that it is getting/going to be getting even more easy going than it was in the past?

 

"Imagine the visa clamp downs and immigration controls started after some of those terrorist events in Bangkok carried out by foreign nationals."

Regarding the 2015 terrorist attack on the Erawan Shrine, no one has claimed responsibility, but :- "The government has implicated a range of (other) suspects in the bombing, mostly Thai opponents of the military regime.^[11]

Regarding the 2019 bombings, it would appear that the perpetrators were also Thai, i.e.  

 the insurgent was orchestrated to create a situation to embarrassed the government as the city hosted ASEAN summit. ^7]Chief Police Chaktip Chaijinda also believe that the motives behind the attack was believed to be political related, as Thailand held its first general election in March since the 2014 Thai coup d'état.^[17][18][19] Nonetheless, many government opposition believe that this attacks was responsible by the government itself in order to divert the public attention on the current poor public image of the government.^[20]

So which are the "terrorist events that were carried out by foreign nationals"? It would appear that most of the troubles in Bangkok are carried out by Thais themselves - either pro or anti Government supporters, as in all the pre coup troubles in Bangkok. 

Also, bear in mind that many other countries have experienced terrorist attacks, but do not make such a song and dance about "overstayers", but prefer to work towards finding and apprehending the perpetrators of terrorism.

 

"The Thai authorities are simply not going to ease their way of managing foreign visitors in Thailand and are not hounding anybody."

I presume that you mean "ease their way off", and in that you are probably right, but "not hounding anybody"? Try asking any expat that has been living here for a number of years if things have got easier or more difficult for them in the past 5 years!!! 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by sambum

[J Town]

In your opinion, what specifically are they NOT doing? It's the police who manage crime, immigration manages passports and entries. I think they're doing a dynamite job and have streamlined many processes. When I got here in 2006, you needed photos and forms just to use their bathrooms. Now it's reasonable, efficient, and most of the time friendly. Of course, I'm using Jomtien and can't comment on any other offices.

[robblok]

18 hours ago, sambum said:

"While I agree that this is illegal,"  - the post is about priorities!

 

Point taken re "proper" and "improper" - would "serious crime" be more acceptable to you?

maybe you should look what immigration does.. it deals with foreigners not "proper" crime as you put it. Its like asking the traffic police to solve murders.

Maybe this topic should be about understanding the difference between different police jobs. 

[alanrchase]

I think there is a clue in the name. Immigration Police. That would suggest it is their job to police matters to do with immigration. There are other police departments to deal with other crimes.

[UTH001]

19 hours ago, Beggar said:

I think many countries will prosecute people without valid visa. Why should Thailand be different? Simply look that that you have a valid visa and there will be no problems. 

Agree! But not deporting people for a few days overstay, parade them in front of the Press and generally humiliate them! Never mind the lack of any compassion in sad cases...

Edited January 11, 2020 by UTH001
Change sentence

[jimn]

17 hours ago, Aspaltso said:

My opinion on this matter is that Thailand wants the tourist dollars that would come if hordes of new arrivals begin to come more frequently in particular from new developing economies(China, India, etc.) and they want to get rid expats(mostly westerners)who have accumulated here over the last 20 years(i.e through marriages with Thai women, retirees with not the required amount income in their bank account etc. You cannot be angry at them for this stance since its their country and they can decide how they want it run(even if it is wrong, or ridiculous. Since tourism has been a very large part of the economy here, they can decide who they want, and don't want coming in. Right now, they want Chinese, and Indians. For me, I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago after living in Thailand. They don't particularly care for me( a white male), so I left the country and never intend on living there ever again. My approach to a country like Thailand is to leave. Me as a western man will never get the benefit of the doubt, and the authorities can move the goal posts at anytime. Like Rambo said to the Christian Missionaries traveling in Myanmar in Rambo 4. "Just Leave"

Another one who has left Thailand but still posts on Thai Visa. You are so funny.

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, sambum said:

Try asking any expat that has been living here for a number of years if things have got easier or more difficult for them in the past 5 years!!! 

I have been living here for 4 years and I have never given the thought to "has Thailand gotten any easier or more difficult".

 

But now come to think of it and to answer your question truthfully and without rubbing it in anyone's face, the way I see it is, if you have reserves, i.e. money, it does help your day to day living here, i.e. it makes it much much easier, even if your currency has dropped between 20%-25% and the cost of certain foods have risen, that said, it's all about managing and budgeting which also helps, otherwise if you just spend spend spend, you will end up with nothing and be in dire straights.

 

What is difficult can be accepting how the Thai's do and see things and don't act upon things as we do/did in our own countries.

 

I could write up a list but it would be too long, so why bother, accept them and duck and weave as I do and live your life, e.g. smoke is billowing outside because some farmer loves to burn his rice/sugar cane field, keep doors windows closed until the air is at a level that your prepared to open the place up, take measures to seal your home, get an air purifier, and a PM2.5 detector, this is at the top of my list because the smoke can kill us, but they light up, because there is no enforcement, which would lead me to the police, and then I would have to start on that long list, so best just duck and weave and manage.

 

As for immigration, never had an issue, always dress smart, wai when walk in and smile, be polite and you get back what you give, and if they don't, I put it down to a bad day at the office, but seriously, never had an issue, in fact they go out of their way copying extra papers for me when I have forgotten or told me to send them photos via the LINE app for a small contribution to later send my application for an extension in, that or do a 3 hour return trip, call it corruption is you like, I call it good management, nothing is for free in this life, besides, what's 500 baht, a tip ????

 

If you or anyone else cannot accept how things are done in Thailand, me included, we have choices, no point in bitching and moaning and groaning, because it only harms us, we have to think outside the square, accept things are not going to change in our lifetime, so enjoy it while we can, and make adjustments while ducking and weaving, nowhere is perfect, some places are better, but no doubt much more expensive and perhaps much more controlled.

 

As someone says to me every now and again, let it go, breathe, cough cough ????

  

 

[The Old Bull]

The BIB always go for the low hanging fruit.

[robertson468]

1 hour ago, J Town said:

In your opinion, what specifically are they NOT doing? It's the police who manage crime, immigration manages passports and entries. I think they're doing a dynamite job and have streamlined many processes. When I got here in 2006, you needed photos and forms just to use their bathrooms. Now it's reasonable, efficient, and most of the time friendly. Of course, I'm using Jomtien and can't comment on any other offices.

Totally agree.  I have found Samui Immigration exceptionally helpful and polite over 15 years in Thailand.  "Snowflake comments like", they don't care for me is rediculous.  If you are a law abiding citizen and are respectful of their Country, Culture and Royal Family, you can live a lovely and happy life amongst great Thai Friends.  I have travelled many places in the World, experiencing many different cultures and societies and I can say without doubt, Koh Samui, Thailand is the place for me, probably until I turn up my toes.

Edited January 11, 2020 by robertson468

[Mbaki]

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I have been living here for 4 years and I have never given the thought to "has Thailand gotten any easier or more difficult".

 

But now come to think of it and to answer your question truthfully and without rubbing it in anyone's face, the way I see it is, if you have reserves, i.e. money, it does help your day to day living here, i.e. it makes it much much easier, even if your currency has dropped between 20%-25% and the cost of certain foods have risen, that said, it's all about managing and budgeting which also helps, otherwise if you just spend spend spend, you will end up with nothing and be in dire straights.

 

What is difficult can be accepting how the Thai's do and see things and don't act upon things as we do/did in our own countries.

 

I could write up a list but it would be too long, so why bother, accept them and duck and weave as I do and live your life, e.g. smoke is billowing outside because some farmer loves to burn his rice/sugar cane field, keep doors windows closed until the air is at a level that your prepared to open the place up, take measures to seal your home, get an air purifier, and a PM2.5 detector, this is at the top of my list because the smoke can kill us, but they light up, because there is no enforcement, which would lead me to the police, and then I would have to start on that long list, so best just duck and weave and manage.

 

As for immigration, never had an issue, always dress smart, wai when walk in and smile, be polite and you get back what you give, and if they don't, I put it down to a bad day at the office, but seriously, never had an issue, in fact they go out of their way copying extra papers for me when I have forgotten or told me to send them photos via the LINE app for a small contribution to later send my application for an extension in, that or do a 3 hour return trip, call it corruption is you like, I call it good management, nothing is for free in this life, besides, what's 500 baht, a tip ????

 

If you or anyone else cannot accept how things are done in Thailand, me included, we have choices, no point in bitching and moaning and groaning, because it only harms us, we have to think outside the square, accept things are not going to change in our lifetime, so enjoy it while we can, and make adjustments while ducking and weaving, nowhere is perfect, some places are better, but no doubt much more expensive and perhaps much more controlled.

 

As someone says to me every now and again, let it go, breathe, cough cough ????

  

 

Well put Sir, too many people come here trying to compare Thailand with western countries, and look for excuses to put it down every chance they get. The only problems here are the ones we make for ourselves, although I understand blaming others is part of human nature. Immigration are doing the same job as their counterparts in any country and overstaying your visa status is a crime everywhere the only difference is how it is handled.

[sead]

Whats else would immigration do?

[Suradit69]

16 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

The BIB always go for the low hanging fruit.

Apparently Thai Visa has become the hub of low hanging fruit if so many posters feel  police are giving them grief.

 

The Thai police seem to spend a lot of time tracking down and extraditing foreign criminals who slip through the fingers of the foreign governments who have to request Thai help.  More low hanging fruit?

 

 

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, Mbaki said:

Well put Sir, too many people come here trying to compare Thailand with western countries, and look for excuses to put it down every chance they get. The only problems here are the ones we make for ourselves, although I understand blaming others is part of human nature. Immigration are doing the same job as their counterparts in any country and overstaying your visa status is a crime everywhere the only difference is how it is handled.

One word brother, "acceptance". ????

[Suradit69]

20 hours ago, sambum said:

seeing headlines of Immigration busting more people for "overstay" and then jailed and deported- sometimes for just a few days. 

Clearly a hysterical exaggeration of reality.

 

i wonder if those who overstay by hundreds of days or multiple years are , by any definition, tourists or if they are making any meaningful contribution to the economy.

 

As someone else said, many of those found to be on overstay were detained for "proper" crimes and coincidentally found to be on overstay.

[The Theory]

21 hours ago, sambum said:

people for "overstay" and then jailed and deported- sometimes for just a few days. 

It is just a reminder to those who plan to stay more than the "date stamp" in their pass.  ???? ???? since there are thousands of visitors every month.  
 

[Fairynuff]

The job of immigration police is to find people breaking the law so they ARE doing what they should be doing. That’s no different from any other country. I had an Australian friend who was caught by UK immigration for overstaying, he was taken to a detention centre and deported.

I don’t see why anybody should be allowed to overstay except on medical grounds or some other exceptional circumstance.

[Deerculler]

Simple.

Overstay is illegal in all countries.

Why should Thai Immigration be lenient?

Overstayers are one group who break the law and make it hard for the rest of us.

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

can you give examples where people are being hounded? i've never met anyone here complaining about being hounded by the authorities

Agree.

 

Compared to immigrations in farang countries, things in Thailand are hardly aggressive for the majority of farang..

 

in in the US, aside from putting children in cages and attempting to ban all people of a certain religious belief or deporting adults who have legally resided in the US almost their entire lives, immigrations has begun detaining Americans attempting to return to the US. Not immigrants or foreign tourists, but US passport carrying Americans of. Iranian descent.

 

Remniscent of Japanese Americans being put in concentration camps during WW II. ... Not German Americans, just Japanese.

 

 

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has opened a civil rights inquiry into allegations that up to 100 Iranian-born travellers, many of them U.S. and Canadian citizens, were detained at British Columbia’s Peace Arch border crossing over the weekend.

.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6392055/us-investigating-allegations-iranian-american-travellers-detained/

Edited January 11, 2020 by Suradit69