UK Pensions and related info

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

Disqualifying benefits

Only sanctionable benefits can be reduced or stopped. Some benefits are not sanctioned but instead called disqualifying benefits.

These include but are not limited to:

• Retirement Pension
• Disability Living Allowance
• Attendance Allowance
• Personal Independence payment

If fraud is committed against one of these benefits it may lead to a penalty against a benefit which can be sanctioned.   

   ....and so is the later version stated,no reduction of state pension

The State Pension is not being subjected to a benefit sanction.

The Pension benefit is restored to its correct entitlement and then deductions made from untill overpayment and or fines have been paid.

 

A benefit sanction is a reduction or loss of the entitlement for a fixed period of time.

 

[cleopatra2]

8 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address.

He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP.

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks.

He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life.

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.  ????

I understand all repayments have been suspended due to Covid

[izod10]

42 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The State Pension is not being subjected to a benefit sanction.

The Pension benefit is restored to its correct entitlement and then deductions made from untill overpayment and or fines have been paid.

 

A benefit sanction is a reduction or loss of the entitlement for a fixed period of time.

 

The state pension is not being adjusted,any other benefits attached to the same recipient will be adjusted for a fixed period of up to 6 years

[cleopatra2]

1 minute ago, izod10 said:

The state pension is not being adjusted,any other benefits attached to the same recipient will be adjusted for a fixed period of up to 6 years

The State Pension will revert to the correct amount .

Any fines or overpayments can be recovered from the state pension. See the payment and overpayments legislation section 15.

The Pension benefit will not be subject to a benefit sanction . The legislation dealing with the reducing or stopping of benefits does not apply to the State Pension.

 

The legislation dealing with benefit sanction only pertain to the actual benefit entitlement. Thus if person A in receipt of a benefit of £50 and incurs a benefit sanction of 50% then the new entitlement will be £25. The benefit sanction is a form of penalty and not a method of recovery.

Thus since the State Pension entitlement is not stopped or reduced it has not been subjected to a benefit sanction.

 

The deductions of overpayments against the State Pension is specifically permitted in the legislation quoted earlier in this post.

[izod10]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Why don't you post the link that is taken from so others can see for themselves - presuming it is not in the link I posted?

 

Similar statements here -

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

 

Which agrees with what you wrote. Based on my earlier link it suggests though that they could take you to court if they really wanted to but in most cases probably would not bother. 

I lifted the passage from a page that is endless,there are other bits but I'm not bothering,basically they (DWP) will do nothing regarding state pension,personally I do not believe they will do anything regardless. attempted to pin a frozen pension on 2 individuals years ago,..failed

[izod10]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The State Pension will revert to the correct amount .

Any fines or overpayments can be recovered from the state pension. See the payment and overpayments legislation section 15.

The Pension benefit will not be subject to a benefit sanction . The legislation dealing with the reducing or stopping of benefits does not apply to the State Pension.

 

The legislation dealing with benefit sanction only pertain to the actual benefit entitlement. Thus if person A in receipt of a benefit of £50 and incurs a benefit sanction of 50% then the new entitlement will be £25. The benefit sanction is a form of penalty and not a method of recovery.

Thus since the State Pension entitlement is not stopped or reduced it has not been subjected to a benefit sanction.

 

The deductions of overpayments against the State Pension is specifically permitted in the legislation quoted earlier in this post.

depending on which part you of DWP legislation is applied,two in particular  yours versus disqualified,and Id go for disqualified as its the latest publication,and in particular I'm not really bothered,The chances of getting pulled are remote in the extreme and as the other poster stated not worth the effort,there.  I'm not going frozen,II suppose you are..tough

[izod10]

16 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

A close personal friend of mine retired to Thailand before reaching state pension age, but at 65 received his state pension + AVC's and annual increases as he used a UK relatives address.

He confided in the wrong person, whom he later had a disagreement with and they snitched on him to the DWP.

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks.

He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life.

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.  ????

Gave this post a quick once over without grasping its content  earlier   An up to date item answering the question of state pension. The guy in question sure did some serious stuff to get landed with that amount,however the last paragraph dropping a "blooper" is informative   state pension unaffected,it was no"blooper" will not touch State Pension.  There is other published item to further it ,if I can find it

 

2.9% increase last few years to pension,  about 1.9% after it enters the wallet,seen ranges of 3 4 5  years backpay needed if collar felt  ,whatever the amount hardly likely to effect ..I'm staying unfrozen  Thank You

[BritManToo]

20 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now).

Link to reporting of court hearing please.

[izod10]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Link to reporting of court hearing please.

He may well have done,the full story not there. more than probably housing benefit/job seekers/any one of a multitude that was ongoing for quite a few years,even PC

There has been FoI for information on this subject...nothing.Personally its old hat,same same long stories to tell that go nowhere,again not bothered,

 The one thing that would bother me is having a house to get shut of here,impossible stuck here for life,now I'm knocking on time for a return,Spain was more than likely,need 2000 quid a month coming in for long time visa,probably in the vicinity,but the couple of mutts I have is the problem,no way do I want to leave them

[Tanoshi]

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Link to reporting of court hearing please.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, izod10 said:

He may well have done,the full story not there. more than probably housing benefit/job seekers/any one of a multitude that was ongoing for quite a few years,even PC

Exactly which benefits I don't know, but yes he received benefits whilst living in Thailand before retirement age, but it wasn't discovered until later by which time he was receiving his State pension.

The 'overpayments' were being deducted from his State pension payments.

 

[Pumpuynarak]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Don't be ridiculous.

 

 

He's an expert at it ????

[izod10]

9 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

He's an expert at it ????

For someone who spent 250 quid  on a hoax letter from the DWP,and hoisted it on here,and came on bragging that the state pension was only 20% of his total pension pot,only to be told it was other state benefits he was babbling on about,yes you are the expert

[cleopatra2]

9 hours ago, izod10 said:

depending on which part you of DWP legislation is applied,two in particular  yours versus disqualified,and Id go for disqualified as its the latest publication,and in particular I'm not really bothered,The chances of getting pulled are remote in the extreme and as the other poster stated not worth the effort,there.  I'm not going frozen,II suppose you are..tough

The pieces of legislation are not in conflict and both are up to date.

You are misconstrue the law.

A benefit sanction is a penalty with its terms specified in legislation.

A deduction is a method of recovery and repayment and not a penalty.

 

A deduction from the state pension cannot be regarded as a benefit sanction because no such penalty as been imposed. The recipient entitlement remains unchanged but receives a lower amount due to the recovery process.

[izod10]

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Exactly which benefits I don't know, but yes he received benefits whilst living in Thailand before retirement age, but it wasn't discovered until later by which time he was receiving his State pension.

The 'overpayments' were being deducted from his State pension payments.

 

you stated earlier his state pension was untouched

[izod10]

3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The pieces of legislation are not in conflict and both are up to date.

You are misconstrue the law.

A benefit sanction is a penalty with its terms specified in legislation.

A deduction is a method of recovery and repayment and not a penalty.

 

A deduction from the state pension cannot be regarded as a benefit sanction because no such penalty as been imposed. The recipient entitlement remains unchanged but receives a lower amount due to the recovery process.

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped

The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Attendance Allowance
• Bereavement Support Payment
• Child Benefit
• Child Tax Credit
• Christmas Bonus
• Disability Living Allowance
• Graduated Retirement Benefit
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Personal Independence Payment
• State Pension
• Social Fund Payments
• War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance
• War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance
• War Pension Mobility

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, izod10 said:

you stated earlier his state pension was untouched

I have provided the legislation which permits deductions from the State Pension.Can you supply the legislatio. Which prohibits deductions from State pension.

 

[izod10]

Just now, cleopatra2 said:

I have provided the legislation which permits deductions from the State Pension.Can you supply the legislatio. Which prohibits deductions from State pension.

 

done it

[cleopatra2]

1 minute ago, izod10 said:

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped

The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Attendance Allowance
• Bereavement Support Payment
• Child Benefit
• Child Tax Credit
• Christmas Bonus
• Disability Living Allowance
• Graduated Retirement Benefit
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Personal Independence Payment
• State Pension
• Social Fund Payments
• War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance
• War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance
• War Pension Mobility

The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery.

[izod10]

Just now, cleopatra2 said:

The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery.

Read it " cannot be reduced or stopped"

[Tanoshi]

22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

As a result he had to return to the UK for a Court hearing. His Pension was frozen at the 2012-13 rate and he was ordered to repay the overpayments. (He's 74 now). They were deducting £20 every 4 weeks from his Pension, but due to his increasing age, last year they announced they were raising the deduction to £50 every 4 weeks.

He appealed stating that amount seriously affected his quality of life.

This is what I previously stated.

Quite clear deductions were being taken from his state pension.

[cleopatra2]

Just now, izod10 said:

done it

You have not provided legislation . Just some wording on guidance.

[cleopatra2]

Just now, izod10 said:

Read it " cannot be reduced or stopped"

In what way is the state pension entitlement being reduced or stopped.

[izod10]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

This is what I previously stated.

Quite clear deductions were being taken from his state pension.

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.   No blooper,no stoppage

[izod10]

4 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The state pension is not being stopped or reduced. A deduction is being made as a method of recovery.

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped  it say there Again....No recovery

[cleopatra2]

6 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped  it say there Again....No recovery

This refers to benefit entitlement. It does not state deductions cannot be made from that entitlement.

If a recipient is entitled to X amount , this amount cannot be reduced to Y. However it does not state that deductions from amount X cannot be made.

[cleopatra2]

12 minutes ago, izod10 said:

 

He never received a reply, but from April 2020 he has been receiving the full state pension at it's current rate without any deductions and has been informed of an increase for 2021.

We think the DWP have dropped a 'blooper', but it's their error and he's not informing them.   No blooper,no stoppage

Repayments have been suspended due to Covid

[izod10]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

This refers to benefit entitlement. It does not state deductions cannot be made from that entitlement.

If a recipient is entitled to X amount , this amount cannot be reduced to Y. However it does not state that deductions from amount X cannot be made.

Nor does it state they can be made

[cleopatra2]

9 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Nor does it state they can be made

Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made

[izod10]

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made

 

2 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Section 15 of the overpayment regulations do state such deductions can be made

This tells me they cannot be made

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped

The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Attendance Allowance
• Bereavement Support Payment
• Child Benefit
• Child Tax Credit
• Christmas Bonus
• Disability Living Allowance
• Graduated Retirement Benefit
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Personal Independence Payment
• State Pension
• Social Fund Payments
• War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance
• War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance
• War Pension Mobility