Bumrungrad Hospital

[MartinBKK]

I have lived in Bangkok for 2 years and any time i have needed a doctor i have always visited Bumrungrad hospital.

I have been around 4 times for various problems and always found the service and treatment to be excellent. I visited there today however and was charged a doctors fee of 1000 Baht + 120 Baht Medical services fee for literally 2 mins of the doctors time. In my previous visits i have always been charged 500 Baht (most of them at least 10 mins or more). I queried the charge and was told that the fee is at the discretion of the doctor. I pushed things further and explained that during all my previous visits i was charged only 500 Baht. The only exception to this was during my visit a couple of months ago when i needed some stitches in my head at 2 am. The charge then was 750 Baht which i felt was fair enough at that time of night.

I can't understand how the doctors fee can vary. Surely the fee for a consultation with a GP should be fixed by the hospital. After much discussion with the cashier and then the doctor they reduced my fee today to 750 Baht. I still feel aggrieved by the obvious attempt to rip me off by the individual doctor and so handed my hospital card back to the cashier explaining that next time i needed to visit a doctor it would not be at Bumrungrad. I am actually very disappointed with this experience as i really held this hospital in high regard prior to this.

I'd be grateful if someone could recommend me an alternative hospital for all my future medical needs.

Thanks.

NB. I should also point out that my bill today including all drugs was 4100 Baht. I was given some anti viral medication and some anti-biotics. I guess it's hard to make a fair comparison as im not familiar with the cost of the individual drugs but i find it difficult to believe the price would have been anywhere near this at a different hospital.

Edited April 3, 2007 by MartinBKK

[Ijustwannateach]

I used to be a fan of BNH until I noticed the same trend- reasonably high-class service went from being slightly pricey to prices through the roof (and a similar cost increase- from roughly 1000++ per visit up to over 4000). My feeling is that both hospitals have decided to abandon most of their local market and survive entirely on medical tourism, as there are still plenty of excellent places to go for a quarter of the cost or less. If I were really unsure about the local care on some issue (e.g., 3 different docs giving 3 different opinions) I'd go there to settle the issue and be sure; but otherwise they're off my regular-visit list now.

[Ijustwannateach]

(P.S. I've been using St. Louis as a much more reasonably priced substitute- I've heard Bangkok Christian is also ok, but the school under the same franchise has a bad rep among teachers so I avoid on principle...)

[leisurely]

I think that the hospitals sub let the rooms. They use the rooms and pay the hospital a fee for doing so. I could be wrong though.

We use Samitivej on soi 49. While it isn't as fancy pants as Bumrungrad, the prices are much more reasonable and the doctors equally good.

[think_too_mut]

I think that the hospitals sub let the rooms. They use the rooms and pay the hospital a fee for doing so. I could be wrong though.

We use Samitivej on soi 49. While it isn't as fancy pants as Bumrungrad, the prices are much more reasonable and the doctors equally good.

Why it is not as fancy as Bumrungrad? They are their direct competitor.

It's a nice place, world class and absence of hundreds of midlle esterners in their gowns and farqas tell you you are not at Bumrungrad.

The prices - are they that different? I know only baby related things from Samitivej.

[english_farang_lady]

A very helpful, knowlegable and informative member of TV who is a highly experienced health professional, and away i believe right now, explained the difference between Bumrungrad and Samitivej to me.

Bum is business oriented. It is run by businessmen who want to make as much as possible. They are better than some things than Sam but not others. In both hospitals doctors credentials are online, giving you the chance to check your specialists qualifications before making an appointment.

Samitivej (on soi 49) is run by doctors. Thus more medically oriented. Higher medical ethos.

But both are world class facilities. Hope this helps.

[wca01]

Samitivey belongs to the Bangkok Hospital group together with BNH. All of them have to satisfy their shareholders.

WCA

[Sheryl]

Consultation fees do indeed vary by doctor, but 1000 Baht for a GP is most unusual. I have only ever paid that much for consukltation with a really top, world class specialist....somebody with qualifications no one else in Thailand can rival. For a GP, usually 400-500 Baht is standard at the international hospitals.

Are you sure it was a GP you saw? Does he have some unusual qualifications??

You will always pay much more for your medications if you purchase them at the hospital, and you should refuse to do so and buy them at a pharamcy, unless the drugs are among the few which are not sold over the counter.

All this being said, it does appear to me that both Bumrungrad and Samitivej have increased thjeir prices of late.

[MartinBKK]

Just to follow up from my original post.

I submitted a complaints form whilst at Bumrungrad and the next day i was contacted by the hospital to let me know they were investigating what had happened. I explained that the problem i had was the fact the price was different to every other previous visit so why this time was it double. I told them i felt a consultation fee with a GP should be fixed by the hospital and NOT by the doctor.

They have promised to let me know the outcome so once i know i will post it here.

[Digger]

In a nutshell as has already been alluded too, doctor fee's are determined by each doctor. You need to do your homework as to which doctors charge 'reasonable' prices. Unfortunately there is no easy way to do this, however I for one would never use a Dr Pantip who is a hematologist at Bumrungrad again as he is a blatant profiteer IMHO. In my experience, the doctors who only P/T at private hospitals after finishing at Govt hospitals/medical schools tend to be more realistic in their pricing structures. Its only anecdotal, based on my own experiences. Equally once you find a good doctor, ask them to recomend someone reasonable and good for a further 'specialist' investigation.

[gummy]

I agree with Ijuststwannateach that St Louis is good value. Myself and family visited Bumrungrad and BNH over the years many many times but now find St Louis geberally provides a quicker service and less cost. Doctors appear to be as good. I think the point worthy of note is though that some hospitals, such as Bumrungrad must recoup their capital expenditure naturally as part of their fees. If I really wanted to go and spend an hour or two amid surroundings of water features and tropical plants etc etc then I would go to a hotel lobby not a hospital.

I must be old fashioned but I tend to think that hospitals are more important for the treatment and level of service given rather than decor, but that is only my opinion. Of course all those previous visits were for medical issues not cosmetic treatments etc. Perhaps those people who are willingly pay large sums of money to feed their vanity may wish for water features etc etc so I guess then they would have no issue with high costs.

[Nawtilus]

Heres a little comparison...

Knee operation Samitivej 2006 ..... 280,000b

Same knee operation at Bumgrad 2007.... 110,000b

Physio at Samitivej for same same....1500b per session

Physio at Bumgrad.....800b per session.

BNH...total ripoff and incompetant docs...at least my experience.

St Louis... ok, but upon last visit there was sent to a surgeon...specialist...he was kept in a grubby little office away from the rest ofthem, dirty shirt, grubby room and when asked a question enquiring re the cause, he told me the most stoooopid answer that I walked out.

[No beleeeeve!]

I agree with Ijuststwannateach that St Louis is good value. Myself and family visited Bumrungrad and BNH over the years many many times but now find St Louis geberally provides a quicker service and less cost. Doctors appear to be as good. I think the point worthy of note is though that some hospitals, such as Bumrungrad must recoup their capital expenditure naturally as part of their fees. If I really wanted to go and spend an hour or two amid surroundings of water features and tropical plants etc etc then I would go to a hotel lobby not a hospital.

I must be old fashioned but I tend to think that hospitals are more important for the treatment and level of service given rather than decor, but that is only my opinion. Of course all those previous visits were for medical issues not cosmetic treatments etc. Perhaps those people who are willingly pay large sums of money to feed their vanity may wish for water features etc etc so I guess then they would have no issue with high costs.

I have used both Bumgrad and St. Louis. I can't remember the costs between the two but St. Louis was a good alternative. They also have a dental department, not sure if Bumgrad does. I liked them both service wise and if I had to go again I would use St. Louis in a second.

Much of why I used either had to do with living close to each at one time. I didn't have major operations which I think might take some more looking into. The most major was having a tooth pulled at St. Louis which went over much better than I expected.

[GallopingMajor]

Heres a little comparison...

Knee operation Samitivej 2006 ..... 280,000b

Same knee operation at Bumgrad 2007.... 110,000b

Physio at Samitivej for same same....1500b per session

Physio at Bumgrad.....800b per session.

BNH...total ripoff and incompetant docs...at least my experience.

St Louis... ok, but upon last visit there was sent to a surgeon...specialist...he was kept in a grubby little office away from the rest ofthem, dirty shirt, grubby room and when asked a question enquiring re the cause, he told me the most stoooopid answer that I walked out.

I've used BNH since I arrived in the Kingdom almost 16 years ago. It was great most of those years, but I do agree that nowadays, BNH is a total rip off. Prices for drugs and tests can be as much as four times what one pays at, for instance, Chula Hospital. A friend who is HIV infected (but healthy) paid 9,000 baht for her quarterly Viral laod/CD4 test. At Chula, it was 4000 baht and at the Thai Red Cross, 1800. Another friend with Cholesterol problem told me he was being equally overcharged on the drug prescribed for him at the BNH pharmacy.

However, I do not agree that all the BNH doctors are hopeless. The only reason that I continue at BNH because I've had the same doctors for years and could never give them up Two of the three doctors that I see regularly there are actually moonlighting from Chula, and one is a Chula professor. Whenever possible, I do not fill prescriptions at the BNH pharmacy. One of my doctors is appalled at the BNH mark-up on drugs..

I could give a long list of BNH price outrages from my own personal experiences, but will post only one now: tooth implant at BNH: 100.000 baht. Tooth inplants at two private long established clinics: 65.000 each. I chose one of the clinics and have a competent dentist trained in England. He's one of the finest doctors that I've dealt with here.

I did an office visit to the two clinics and BNH to get the price comparison. Strangely, there were hardly any pactients in the waiting area. Maybe most of the resident farangs are on to the BNH scam..

Bumrundrad patients may find the following site interesting:

http://bumrungraddeath.com/

Was at BUM once and never went back. Negative vibes. I really don't know anything about BUM except I don't like it. I find it difficult to believe that they give reasonable prices for their procedures and drugs. Excuse my prejudice.

[yuyi]

Well, I use Bumrungrad since many years, also my family, and some of my friends, and I am very happy with it most (90%) of the time. I guess it depends on the doctors you have there. I tried also others such as the Bangkok Pattaya, and numerous Thai hospitals.

From the Thai hospitals, well, even if the doctors did know about some simple and standard diagnostic possibilities, standard in the western world, they would not have the simple equipment for it, and you get a "double 80%" treatment. This is what the chief doctor of a Thai Province center clinic told me "In 80 % of the cases looking like that the diagnosis is xyz and in 80% of xyz the medication given has a positive effect, sorry we do not have the equipment to make a better diagnosis, so take this medication now"

For the Bangkok Pattaya hospitals, well, there might be a good doctor there or two, but many who just recommend you unnecessary operations and treatments, a real rip-off! Never again I will go there! And too many horror stories I hear, first hand experiences from friends, not just rumors.

For Bumrungrad, I would say there you have at least a 80% chance to meet a good doctor. There are 2 doctors my family sees regularly, and they are both world class, and reasonable costs. I also noticed that often we have to queue for an hour or more because the queue for them is so long, while the queue for others is much shorter. Diagnosis, treatment, and the explanation of both, simply perfect. I have seen 2 cesarians there, and all what is happening before and after, and there is not much room for improvement, if any at all. No way I would voluntarily go elsewhere if my family would need it again!

I have seen in Bumrungrad their specialist for Infectious Diseases recommending me against taking antibiotics when I was in doubt, and felt really sick. He gave up his commission, just to tell me what he thinks is the best to do - let nature heal it itself!

I have also met a stupid doctor there, telling my family nonsense about a viral infection in the ear, which would need treatment with antibiotics, and being quite annoyed when we did refuse "(kill a virus with antibiotics, yeah!)", however his colleague next door whom we consulted afterwards did compensate by doing an excellent job, and confirming that it was nonsense what the other doctor said.

So if in doubt, I go to bumrungrad, but as everywhere I watch what they do, ask for an explanation, and verify what they say. And in the meantime some of their doctors have gained my trust 100% already.

[Furbie]

Bumrungrad, BNH have all gotten way overpriced – each is now routinely charging 1,000 baht for a consultation (I have been shocked at recent bills), and Samitivej appears no better. While it is true Doctors set their own price for consultations (and good luck trying to find out what those are in advance), they need to be within the “norm” at the hospital. After many years of using BNH and Bumrungrad, and a trial run at Samitivej, I am going to try a more local hospital.

[Erwin1011]

I go to Samitivej Sukh 49, for cancer treatment and checkups. Oncologist charges 500, so thus the lungs and the urologist. The moment you get into their equipment use you may be in for serious surprises and of course the markups on medicines. The oncologist simply gave me a phone contact where I could buy directly. saved me more than 60% on the cost.

[Nawtilus]

Yuyi....how about mentioning the name of the doctors you have found to be excellent....we all need tofind these types.

I have found a doc that I think is very good in the kids department at bumgrad, will have to go look up his name to recommend him, but again he has not prescribed drugs for my kids on several occassions, wheras others have willy nilly done it on every chance they get.

As for not buying the drugs at the hospital, do you ever get any grief asking for the list of meicines without actually purchasing it from thepharmacy ??