On 1/28/2020 at 9:39 AM, rabas said:

The effect on the Earth is not 'per capita'. 

 

 It's per ton, same as micro-plastics, toxic materials, and all waste.

Raally? So, by your logic, India, with 3 times the population of the USA, but only 7 percent of CO2 emissions, is doing a far better job than the USA with a 16% share of CO emissions.  

Or to put it another way, the US produces more CO2 than any other nation except china. So it's actually the second worst nation in the world in regard to this.

Do I really have to explain to you why your criterion, which disregards the population of a nation but only its gross output is nuts?

On 1/28/2020 at 9:34 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

What is never mentioned is that most of the world's population that lives in poor countries want to live like they do in the US.

Only way to actually reduce human input into climate is to reduce number of humans, IMO.

They may aspire to that standard of living, but that doesn't mean they have to burn their way to get there. The fossil fuel era is drawing to a close, as the price of renewables and storage continues to plunge.

On 1/28/2020 at 9:34 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

What is never mentioned is that most of the world's population that lives in poor countries want to live like they do in the US.

Only way to actually reduce human input into climate is to reduce number of humans, IMO.

What you, ThaiBeachLovers, actually say is: As long as those less well-off people don't raise from being slaves to become one of us, our world is just fine. 

 

That's the purest form of racism. Abuse of others is fine as long as they don't receive my own status.

7 hours ago, evadgib said:

In an interview to mark 50 years since the start of WW1 Henry Williamson (author of 'Tarka the Otter') recalled his surprise at learning that both sides believed god was on their side as he mingled with German soldiers in no mans land during the 1914 Christmas truce.

 

Think about it... 

OK thought about it. Sounds very much like you fit into this category:

 

9 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

The reason they taunt her with childish insults is because that’s all they’ve got. They’re out of ideas.

 

Or maybe this category:

 

9 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

the middle-aged man taunting a child with Asperger syndrome from behind the safety of their computer screens

Or this?

9 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

these bargain bin cranks trade in jaded cynicism, not youthful passion.

 

Definately this:

 

9 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

"Thunberg obviously scares some men silly. The bullying of the teenager by conservative middle-aged men has taken on a grim, almost hysterical edge. And some of them are reaching deep into the misogynist’s playbook to divert focus from her message."

 

 

There fixed it for you.

 

 

Edited January 29, 20206 yr by DannyCarlton

On 1/30/2020 at 1:10 AM, DannyCarlton said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/women/greta-thunberg-climate-change-crisis-strike-austism-misogyny-protest-speech-a9127971.html

 

"Thunberg obviously scares some men silly. The bullying of the teenager by conservative middle-aged men has taken on a grim, almost hysterical edge. And some of them are reaching deep into the misogynist’s playbook to divert focus from her message."

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-is-greta-thunberg-so-triggering-for-certain-men-1.4002264

 

"But who’s the real freak – the activist whose determination has single-handedly started a powerful global movement for change, or the middle-aged man taunting a child with Asperger syndrome from behind the safety of their computer screens?

And that, of course, is the real reason why Greta Thunberg is so triggering. They can’t admit it even to themselves, so they ridicule her instead. But the truth is that they’re afraid of her. The poor dears are terrified of her as an individual, and of what she stands for – youth, determination, change.

The reason they taunt her with childish insults is because that’s all they’ve got. They’re out of ideas. They can’t dismantle her arguments, because she has science – and David Attenborough – on her side. They can’t win the debate with the persuasive force of their arguments, because these bargain bin cranks trade in jaded cynicism, not youthful passion. They can harangue her with snide tweets and hot take blogposts, but they won’t get a reaction because, frankly, she has bigger worries on her mind."

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a 16 year old has the experience and wisdom to "change the world". Some of us can see that she's a puppet for adults to use for their agenda, IMO.

That she is popular with other kids is not surprising. I'd have supported anyone that got me out of boring school.

Afraid, hardly; scornful, yes.

I'd love one of the school kid "experts" to come and try to debate me, but of course none ever do.

 

They can’t dismantle her arguments,

Since when was accusing me of "stealing her dreams" an argument? It's what I'd expect a child to say when having a tantrum.

I may have missed them, but I haven't heard a single solution come out of her mouth.

 

frankly, she has bigger worries on her mind.

I made the point some time ago that she's a kid and should be enjoying her childhood, not running around thinking she's important, but I've seen the sly grin she has when she has a bunch of reporters clustered around her- she's lovin' it.

When she grows up and the attention has moved on to the next big thing, she's going to become extremely depressed, IMO, when no one takes any notice of her anymore.

 

 

On 1/30/2020 at 1:10 AM, DannyCarlton said:

the middle-aged man taunting a child with Asperger syndrome from behind the safety of their computer screens?

IMO it's only "taunting" if she reads them, and surely her parents would be protecting her ( she is a child after all ) by not letting her read all the nasty things people say about her?

On 1/30/2020 at 6:27 AM, bristolboy said:

They may aspire to that standard of living, but that doesn't mean they have to burn their way to get there. The fossil fuel era is drawing to a close, as the price of renewables and storage continues to plunge.

I'll be very happy to see everyone that lives in a city HAVING to give up their polluting gas guzzlers and drive electric cars or take public transport. They prefer driving a big car by themselves than taking the bus or the train.

Of course, electric cars will be completely unaffordable for the vast majority of people to buy, so it'll take till all the petrol powered cars to rust out before electric cars make a difference. I'd say most people in NZ drive second hand cars, which are very cheap, but how long till electric cars are that cheap? Then, if the batteries need replacing, who would be mug enough to buy them?

 

Anyone living in the country won't be forced to give up their petrol car as an electric car doesn't have the range to be used.

On 1/30/2020 at 6:42 AM, TheDark said:

What you, ThaiBeachLovers, actually say is: As long as those less well-off people don't raise from being slaves to become one of us, our world is just fine. 

 

That's the purest form of racism. Abuse of others is fine as long as they don't receive my own status.

 Most of the people that I knew in Thailand were richer than I, and that refers to Thais, as I didn't know more than a couple of farangs.

Edited January 31, 20206 yr by thaibeachlovers

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a 16 year old has the experience and wisdom to "change the world". Some of us can see that she's a puppet for adults to use for their agenda, IMO.

That she is popular with other kids is not surprising. I'd have supported anyone that got me out of boring school.

Afraid, hardly; scornful, yes.

I'd love one of the school kid "experts" to come and try to debate me, but of course none ever do.

 

They can’t dismantle her arguments,

Since when was accusing me of "stealing her dreams" an argument? It's what I'd expect a child to say when having a tantrum.

I may have missed them, but I haven't heard a single solution come out of her mouth.

 

frankly, she has bigger worries on her mind.

I made the point some time ago that she's a kid and should be enjoying her childhood, not running around thinking she's important, but I've seen the sly grin she has when she has a bunch of reporters clustered around her- she's lovin' it.

When she grows up and the attention has moved on to the next big thing, she's going to become extremely depressed, IMO, when no one takes any notice of her anymore.

 

 

It appears from your replies that - unfortunately - you didn't really get it. You confirm precisely  that  older men with computers are getting irritated that this young girl is not treating them with the respect that they believe their "wisdom" and seniority deserve.

 

"Since when was accusing me of "stealing her dreams" an argument?" .........don't take it personally, it was a general comment, saying that the older generation as a whole have damaged the environment, that she and her generation will inherit. It was a statement not an argument, and of course like most statements it is only part of the picture. 

 

"When she grows up and the attention has moved on to the next big thing, she's going to become extremely depressed, IMO, when no one takes any notice of her anymore."

I think your crystal ball is overheating, maybe check your blood pressure. 

 

If climate change continues at the current rate (Unprecedented temperature increases over a relatively short time period) there is no way it is not going to carry on being the "Big thing". 

 

" Some of us can see that she's a puppet for adults to use for their agenda, IMO".

If it is IMO, then what you really mean is:-  I can see that she's a puppet etc...........clever you.

Given the vitriolic attacks she is endlessly subjected to I think she needs to have some supportive adults around her. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'll be very happy to see everyone that lives in a city HAVING to give up their polluting gas guzzlers and drive electric cars or take public transport. They prefer driving a big car by themselves than taking the bus or the train.

Of course, electric cars will be completely unaffordable for the vast majority of people to buy, so it'll take till all the petrol powered cars to rust out before electric cars make a difference. I'd say most people in NZ drive second hand cars, which are very cheap, but how long till electric cars are that cheap? Then, if the batteries need replacing, who would be mug enough to buy them?

 

Anyone living in the country won't be forced to give up their petrol car as an electric car doesn't have the range to be used.

My son just bought an electric car, it was about €25k I believe, I've never bought a new car, but I believe that's not an over the top price. Amsterdam will be petrol car free in 10 years time apparently.

 

How long did it take us to get petrol cars to be as efficient as they are today - 100 years or so. Technological improvements don't just stop, electric cars are getting better all the time.

Troll posts removed.  

 

Edited February 1, 20206 yr by Scott

On 1/31/2020 at 9:02 PM, Nigel Garvie said:

It appears from your replies that - unfortunately - you didn't really get it. You confirm precisely  that  older men with computers are getting irritated that this young girl is not treating them with the respect that they believe their "wisdom" and seniority deserve.

Inventing much?

Why would you think I expect "respect" from some child that I've never met?

 

One day she's going to wake up and realise that the adults that should have cared for her stole her childhood to further their agenda.

Edited February 3, 20206 yr by thaibeachlovers

On 1/31/2020 at 9:10 PM, Nigel Garvie said:

My son just bought an electric car, it was about €25k I believe, I've never bought a new car, but I believe that's not an over the top price. Amsterdam will be petrol car free in 10 years time apparently.

 

How long did it take us to get petrol cars to be as efficient as they are today - 100 years or so. Technological improvements don't just stop, electric cars are getting better all the time.

To become petrol car free means people have to buy a new electric car. That's millions of new cars in "10 years" ( your claim ). Even if everyone could afford to buy one, which they can't, where is all the raw material to make those millions of cars going to come from? The materials are rare and sourced in few places. China is the biggest producer of rare earth materials- they ain't going to make it easy for foreign countries to get.

Even if everyone could buy one, where is the power to charge them coming from? You do know that Holland uses coal to make electricity, don't you?

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Inventing much?

Why would you think I expect "respect" from some child that I've never met?

 

One day she's going to wake up and realise that the adults that should have cared for her stole her childhood to further their agenda.

Oh Dear, read my comment again saying don't take it personally, general comment etc. 

 

One day she's going to wake up and realise that the adults that should have cared for her stole her childhood to further their agenda....................you won your free pass to the daft conspiracy theory club.

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To become petrol car free means people have to buy a new electric car. That's millions of new cars in "10 years" ( your claim ). Even if everyone could afford to buy one, which they can't, where is all the raw material to make those millions of cars going to come from? The materials are rare and sourced in few places. China is the biggest producer of rare earth materials- they ain't going to make it easy for foreign countries to get.

Even if everyone could buy one, where is the power to charge them coming from? You do know that Holland uses coal to make electricity, don't you?

Where is all the raw material to make those millions of cars going to come from? ...........The same place as the raw materials to make the same number of petrol cars they are replacing came from. The rare earth metals (Only used in small quantities in these cars, more important in mobile phones etc) were not entirely grabbed by China, and the West woke up and found some more deposits - it's an old story. Can you imagine millions of people buying electric cars and all being blissfully ignorant of where the power comes from? The Netherlands are reducing their reliance on fossil fuels just like other sane countries are.

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To become petrol car free means people have to buy a new electric car. That's millions of new cars in "10 years" ( your claim ). Even if everyone could afford to buy one, which they can't, where is all the raw material to make those millions of cars going to come from? The materials are rare and sourced in few places. China is the biggest producer of rare earth materials- they ain't going to make it easy for foreign countries to get.

Even if everyone could buy one, where is the power to charge them coming from? You do know that Holland uses coal to make electricity, don't you?

I guess you don't know that coal in the Netherlands accounts for at most 12% of energy use. 

"In 2017, the total energy consumption in the Netherlands amounted to 3157 PJ. The main energy carriers were natural gas with over 41 percent of the total, petroleum (almost 39 percent) and coal (12 percent). Slightly more than 8 percent comes from renewable sources, nuclear energy and waste."

Did you know that after being a laggard in the use of renewables, Netherlands is rapidly increasing its use of wind power and solar?

https://longreads.cbs.nl/trends18-eng/economy/figures/energy/

 

First steel in water for Netherlands' biggest offshore wind farm

Developer Ørsted installs lead-off foundations for giant Borssele 1&2 project that will power 1 million Dutch homes

https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/first-steel-in-water-for-netherlands-biggest-offshore-wind-farm/2-1-736336