UK government suffers fourth defeat on Brexit legislation in House of Lords

[Baerboxer]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:23 AM, RuamRudy said:

But we are union of countries, not a union of peoples. Rightly, you point out that one of those countries is significantly larger in population than the other 3, but if this means that the wishes of the largest country takes precedence over the wishes of the smaller countries merely by virtue of size then it means we are not a nation of equals. 

 

Personally, I hope Johnson continues to show contempt for the wishes of the democratically elected devolved parliaments, maybe even attempt to neuter them - I would love that to be mooted next.

 

Only the sovereign country is the UK. The sovereign body the British parliament. 

 

Local councils, however glorified and pretentious, are not above the national parliament. No matter how much local nationalists like to pretend.

 

Ironic isn't it, the more liberally minded politicians who believed giving the nationalists more say and control would satisfy their ambitions only fueled them. Like so much of their thinking, wrong.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Don't worry there will come more defeats. 

 

Which means nothing! The Lords, load of sponging old hasbeens and cronies that they mainly are, can defeat, send back with recommendations if they so choose. Commons will then debate the recommendations and vote on them. Government has majority of 80.

 

Still, stops the Lords sleeping all day.

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Assuming that you'll spend the rest of your life in Thailand or at least outside UK, the decision to leave EU will have no impact on your daily life.....except maybe the value of your currency. 

The outcome of Brexit or the rejoining EU you might not witness probably. 

Obviously the dead end street of nationalism and racism seem to be fashion for misled people. 

 

 

 

You are right that no one can see the future. So no one can no the outcome of the relentless move towards a centrally controlled less democratic EU controlled by two main players, supported by several long term members who do very nicely out of it.

 

Whilst everyone perceives they're benefiting, all is well. If not, and the <deleted> hits the fan, then who knows. 

 

The EU could morph into the next USSR.

[sanuk711]

14 hours ago, Purdey said:

Not sure why people are saying that a guy who escaped the Nazis is out of touch. Seems to be the only one with empathy surrounded by boorish Johnsons.

Giving Kudos to him for that is a little Ingenuous , isn't it purdy? I mean he was about 5 years old when Winton moved him and about 700 other children out of Prague. As he says , all he remembers about it was that he didn't eat his sandwiches .

 

The house of Lords is an anachronism, about 700 unelected people trying to alter the law being passed by an elected government----if this was in Thailand everyone would agree that it should never even exist. Democratic UK---they just put up with as it gets bigger every year.

 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Over 800 people in the house of lords. They are entitled to claim an attendance fee of 300 pounds per day. They contribute nothing to the well being of the UK. Utterly ridiculous.

That comes to £240,000 PER Day if all 800 claim, To that figure you must add first class travelling, hotels and food costs. That comes to £72,000,000 for a 300 day working year.

[billd766]

16 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Assuming that you'll spend the rest of your life in Thailand or at least outside UK, the decision to leave EU will have no impact on your daily life.....except maybe the value of your currency. 

The outcome of Brexit or the rejoining EU you might not witness probably. 

Obviously the dead end street of nationalism and racism seem to be fashion for misled people. 

 

 

That would apply to you also would it not?

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So if the non SNP controlled local authorities rejected SNP voted for Scottish Parliament decisions you'd support the local authorities would you?

You don't understand the issue, do you? 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only the sovereign country is the UK. The sovereign body the British parliament. 

 

Local councils, however glorified and pretentious, are not above the national parliament. No matter how much local nationalists like to pretend.

 

Ironic isn't it, the more liberally minded politicians who believed giving the nationalists more say and control would satisfy their ambitions only fueled them. Like so much of their thinking, wrong.

Wrong again.

In Scotland the people are sovereign. Its part of Scottish law. We have a separate law system BECAUSE we are a separate country from England.

  

[Loiner]

So apart from the haggis munchers degenerating another thread, where is the bill now?

Any of the upper house checks and balance lovers care to tell us?

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Wrong again.

In Scotland the people are sovereign. Its part of Scottish law. We have a separate law system BECAUSE we are a separate country from England.

Weren't you banging on about Parliament being sovereign all the while  ???????????????????????????? (+ rejoiners) were trying to reverse the will of the ???????? electorate?

[evadgib]

40 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So apart from the haggis munchers degenerating another thread, where is the bill now?

Any of the upper house checks and balance lovers care to tell us?

I saw the official answer this morning but you might prefer this version uploaded a few mins ago ????

 

(Content rather than poster to the usual culprits please!)

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

That comes to £240,000 PER Day if all 800 claim, To that figure you must add first class travelling, hotels and food costs. That comes to £72,000,000 for a 300 day working year.

 

costly? dunno really . . .

 

that is the price you have to pay for keepin' the  farts in one place,

but then you have protected the rest of the UK society from their doings,

their all in HoL . . . and cannot do much damage elsewhere

Edited January 23, 2020 by melvinmelvin
typo

[StreetCowboy]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

That comes to £240,000 PER Day if all 800 claim, To that figure you must add first class travelling, hotels and food costs. That comes to £72,000,000 for a 300 day working year.

I din't know the House of Lords sat 300 days per year.  That's pretty hard graft that they put in.  They've certainly gone up in my estimation today.  Thanks for that!

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Weren't you banging on about Parliament being sovereign all the while  ???????????????????????????? (+ rejoiners) were trying to reverse the will of the ???????? electorate?

Jesus wept.

In England parliament is sovereign. It was while we were part of the EU and will still be after we leave.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

So apart from the haggis munchers degenerating another thread, where is the bill now?

Any of the upper house checks and balance lovers care to tell us?

You understand that Scottish independence and Brexit are intertwined yes?

If you just want a thread where you brexiteers can all have a group hug and share high fives then start one called "Aint us Brexiteers just super duper". 

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Jesus wept.

In England parliament is sovereign. It was while we were part of the EU and will still be after we leave.

 

don't quite agree with that

 

during since the referendum it has in my view been clearly demonstrated several times that the pub patrons

in Westminster are NOT sovereign, they have been under the PM thumb,

in particular when it comes to predural matters

 

[evadgib]

44 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Jesus wept.

In England parliament is sovereign. It was while we were part of the EU and will still be after we leave.

Who is sovereign - people or Parliament?

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Who is sovereign - people or Parliament?

 

in UK - neither

 

[evadgib]

Back on topic:

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I din't know the House of Lords sat 300 days per year.  That's pretty hard graft that they put in.  They've certainly gone up in my estimation today.  Thanks for that!

I don't know if they do either but after some thought and subtracting the weekends and, parliamentary holidays when the house is in recess and bank holidays I think that a closer figure might be 200 days per year. OTOH it is rare to find many members on a Friday or a Monday (long weekends) plus attendance is not compulsory there may not be that many attendees unless it is something serious like Brexit,

[StreetCowboy]

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't know if they do either but after some thought and subtracting the weekends and, parliamentary holidays when the house is in recess and bank holidays I think that a closer figure might be 200 days per year. OTOH it is rare to find many members on a Friday or a Monday (long weekends) plus attendance is not compulsory there may not be that many attendees unless it is something serious like Brexit,

As a penultimate resort against demagogues, I am grateful to them, and they seem to be doing a good job; whatever they receive seems like good value to me

[lungbing]

I they gave me 300 quid day just for turning up I'd be there every day they were open.

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You understand that Scottish independence and Brexit are intertwined yes?

No, they are not. That’s your problem. 

 

2014 : Scotland voted IN

2016 : UK voted LEAVE 

 

Although we will be rid of the wretched EU, we are still stuck with you lot. Better get used to it because we have had to. 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Says the man who wants a united Ireland. Calling the kettle black. How ironic.

 

I see those posters who where claiming Boris wouldn't win the election and that brexit won't happen seem to have popped their heads from under the rocks.

What does it actually mean to win an election? 

It doesn't prevent to be wrong or doing wrong decisions or "deals ".

Remember Hitler. He won with overwhelming majority. 

And the result? 

(Don't answer me that even after being defeated Germany still rules Europe... ????)

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Which means nothing! The Lords, load of sponging old hasbeens and cronies that they mainly are, can defeat, send back with recommendations if they so choose. Commons will then debate the recommendations and vote on them. Government has majority of 80.

 

Still, stops the Lords sleeping all day.

Doesn't mean that the defeat has to come by the Lords.... There are others waiting and knocking.... US, Canada, EU and some to come 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Says the man who wants a united Ireland. Calling the kettle black. How ironic.

 

I see those posters who where claiming Boris wouldn't win the election and that brexit won't happen seem to have popped their heads from under the rocks.

Of course I'm a supporter in order to have Ireland reunited and to end the occupation of NI. 

After the reunification of Germany (a communist and a democratic part!!!) it is incomprehensible why this can't happen between 2 democratic parts of Ireland. 

I hope the Scots will driving a wedge between Ireland and England. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, lungbing said:

I they gave me 300 quid day just for turning up I'd be there every day they were open.

You and me both.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Who is sovereign - people or Parliament?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989

 

Facts not opinion. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

No, they are not. That’s your problem. 

 

2014 : Scotland voted IN

2016 : UK voted LEAVE 

 

Although we will be rid of the wretched EU, we are still stuck with you lot. Better get used to it because we have had to. 

In 2014 Scotland voted to remain in the UK because we were lied to.

You Brexiteers need to accept that the UK is no longer the same.

I'm sorry that you worry England is too weak and poor to go it alone but Scotland will not be following you into the abyss.

You Brexiteers need to man up and accept the consequences of your actions.

[Jip99]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

You Brexiteers need to man up and accept the consequences of your actions.

 

 

 

We just did.