Thai Men And Violence

[philliphn]

I have been reading in Thai Visa for a few years. I have been very interested in retiring in Thailand. I am 51 almost 52 years old. I was never a violent person myself. I have become increasingly concerned about the many stories that I have read about Thai violence towards "Farangs". I read old Thai hands repeatedly saying that Thai men are very violent. That they will assault you usually in gangs if you dare even to stand up for what is right. That Thais

Edited April 3, 2007 by philliphn

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can't say that I have seen much evidence of that sort of behaviour by Thai men at all.

[Artfullmover]

I have been reading in Thai Visa for a few years. I have been very interested in retiring in Thailand. I am 51 almost 52 years old. I was never a violent person myself. I have become increasingly concerned about the many stories that I have read about Thai violence towards "Farangs". I read old Thai hands repeatedly saying that Thai men are very violent. That they will assault you usually in gangs if you dare even to stand up for what is right. That Thais

People worry to much about arguing with Thai men - well dont do it if you think theirs a real threat of violence and you should be ok.

In Australia in some neighbourhoods we have gangs of youths that will attack you for nothing at all just to have a bit of fun. Mostly happend late at night on weekends and they are fueled by alchol and or drugs and boredom. Not real common that they cause a lot of damage to you but if you put up a good fight you run a real prospect of getting knifed.

There violence isnt really directed at any nationality only towards those they see as a weak target.

[peter991]

I have found Thailand to be incredibly safe. The only 'violence' I have seen was at an Issan dancing show. Towards the end of the evening, two Thai guys in their 40s started to take a drunken swing at each other. Don't know what started it - but nobody else joined in or attempted to separate them.

My Thai bf was worried about my safety as I was the only farang among about 500 Thais. He thought things might escalate and the group would turn on me - even though I was about 50 metres behind the action.

Two Thai policemen appeared from nowhere - with their batons drawn - and the incident was over in a minute or so.

I think there is a good reason for the general lack of violence in Thailand:

1. Buddhist religion: Non-violent, non-confrontational.

2. Illicit drugs are not a big problem in Thailand. Sure - ya-ba is available, but its use is severely frowned upon by most Thais.

3. Minimal social security - no unemployment benefits, no pension (except for government workers). You want money, you work.

There's probably a whole raft of reasons, but these are my observations.

Peter

[chiang mai]

I think there is a good reason for the general lack of violence in Thailand:

2. Illicit drugs are not a big problem in Thailand. Sure - ya-ba is available, but its use is severely frowned upon by most Thais.

I suspect there's a bigger problem with illicit drugs than we perhaps realize. Given the proximity of my home town at least to the manufacturing and growing centres in Myanmar and Laos as well as in Chiang Rai province, the sheer weight of numbers and probability suggests that usage amongst native Thai's must be alarmingly high. After all, drug manufacture is a business that thrives and it would not do so without an ample supply of customers. Doubtful however that the government would want to release figures on the subject because as you say, most Thai's frown on drug usage and there must be a strong element of "face" associated with wanting to show that the local population is clean. I suspect that the cause of the violence that you encountered was local whiskey which along with Mehkong does disturbingly harmful things to the brain. On that point, try buying a small bottle of Mehkong whiskey from the airport duty free on your next trip out of the country and sample it. The stuff they make for export is a totally different animal to the whiskey sold under the same label for use in country. Doubtless this is because the home consumption product would not pass muster as something to be safely consumed by humans in western countries!

[sbk]

Thai men and violence. Interesting title sure to bring out the trolls and the Thai haters

I am married to a Thai man and have been for many years. He is not violent. No one in his immediate family is violent. I have seen it, but I wouldn't say its the majority of men I know. And I know alot of people.

My experience with violence in this country has been that it is almost always either personal or business. Rarely random crazies like you get at home.

What I have seen with my neighbors and my husband's extremely large extended family has been that most aren't violent but some can get so if they get too drunk (mean drunks are everywhere). And that a few are violent. The worst ones are the quiet ones who say or do nothing but, push them too far ( and most other Thai men will know what "too far" is, problem with farang is they don't know the rules, they don't understand the limits) and they will snap and kill.

One guy insults another guy (goes too far), or screws his wife, or beats up his kid and the injured man then goes and kills the transgressor. For example.

In business, it is usually to remove a rival, I know of a man who sold fruit to large hotels in Bangkok, did quite well at it, expanded his business. A rival fruit seller decided the best way to eliminate the competition was to eliminate the man. He hired a hit man but the first guy managed to escape, so, in this case, the plan didn't work.

That said, the addition of Ya Ba into the mix has, IMO, led to an increase of violence in this country. Heavy users of Ya Ba literally turn psychotic. And then innocent people suffer.

Are Thai men more violent than western? I doubt it, its just that there is less fear of police here, and less likelihood of paying for the consequences of one's actions as there is in the West.

[terry57]

I have been reading in Thai Visa for a few years. I have been very interested in retiring in Thailand. I am 51 almost 52 years old. I was never a violent person myself. I have become increasingly concerned about the many stories that I have read about Thai violence towards "Farangs". I read old Thai hands repeatedly saying that Thai men are very violent. That they will assault you usually in gangs if you dare even to stand up for what is right. That Thais

considering you come from the U.S.A you have nothing to worry about, as the states is by far much worse for violence than thailand.

im from australia and i would never go into the city on my own at night but in bangkok im never worried.

all the stories you hear about thai men being violent have a common denomenator.

that being they have ended up in conflict with farang and have finished the fight thai way.

it is true they can be violent when provoked, but if you are a law abiding person respecting the thai, there religion and there country it would be highly unusual to come across trouble.

if you are unfamiliar with thailand i can easily see how these stories give a negative opinion of the the thai male but i can assure you there is always a reason for the action.

the rules are the same here as for any country and that is to behave ones self and avoid conflict.

if you can manage to do this you will have a brilliant time in thailand.

thank you very much.

[ThaiGoon]

My experience with violence in this country has been that it is almost always either personal or business. Rarely random crazies like you get at home.

So true.

And this from terry57:

it is true they can be violent when provoked, but if you are a law abiding person respecting the thai, there religion and there country it would be highly unusual to come across trouble.

is also spot on.

[wintermute]

Thailand has a lot of faults but the violence is definitely overhyped in this forum. I think most of the time farang who get the crap knocked out of them most likely did something to provoke it. It's the truth and Thailand is the same as anywhere else if you can't act decent in public then bad things will happen.

[taxexile]

here we go again , are the thais violent , are the thais racist , are we unwelcome.

misunderstandings will always exist when one culture comes up against another culture.

the rather long essay that i have quoted , is certainly valid and worth working through for anyone thinking of living here , or actually living here , and may go some way to explaining why the thais are such a mystery to us befuddled westerners.

for those just interested in only the "violence" aspect of it , just scroll down to the second set of red highlighted text.

personally , i have a come across a small amount but have heard first hand accounts of a lot of violence here ,(from a mid ranking policeman), drink has always been involved , as have thai males under 30 and it has made me wary of frequenting certain areas and certain types of places late at night , most of them being the sort of areas and places that i would also be wary of back in the uk.

random robbery with violence is also becoming far more common here than it used to be , thats no different to anywhere else in the world , and as tourists here will tend to be out on the streets later at night than they would be in their home environment , they are more likely to come across the rowdier elements of thai society , same as any tourist away from home.

the difference here is the suddeness with which violence can erupt should the fragile ego of a thai person be insulted , and the "pack mentality" of the type of thais who indulge in violent behaviour. nobody will come to your help , and should you survive , then , in most cases , the police will be of little help and justice may be difficult or impossible to come by.

thai men are probably no more violent than the men of any other nationality , every nationality will have those who enjoy a fight and those who enjoy looking for trouble , the difference is in the nature of the catalyst that will cause a potential fight in thailand to actually turn into a fight rather than defuse itself.

late night drinking places will attract, among others , the type of person easily roused to violence , especially when drunk.

cultural differences in body language , eye contact , and verbal respones between visitors to thailand with little experience of the country , and some of these late night characters can and sometimes do result in violent encounters..... and here, you cant rely on the wise old elder chugging on his pipe to wander over and separate the groups , people mind their own business here.

Thailand : the Thai National Characteristics

The Thai Character

This section (slightly abbreviated, edited, and without

footnotes) was sourced from another website with

permission. You can find the reference and author below

the text.

While we personally think that cultural differences

between people are often greatly overstated, the

characteristics of Thai people as described below might

ring a bell for those of us who have stayed awhile in

Thailand, and this essay may be beneficial for those

considering a long term stay for work or pleasure here.

The positive aspects of the Thai character (find them

throughout this page) certainly contribute to the number

of foreigners who have made Thailand their permanent

home.

Thai National Character

This lengthy essay will focus on the social cultural

forces that influence Thai social behaviors to the

extent that they constitute persistent behavioral

patterns, thus the personality of the Thai people.

Conceptually, value systems, as relatively stable

structures of culture held by representative members of

the culture, can reflect to quite some extent, the

national character of that culture. The Thai value

systems, derived from the empirical data from two

national samples, as conducted by Suntaree Komi, which

show a remarkable overall consistency overtime and

across groups, have provided some highly consistent and

culturally meaningful data, indicating the cognitive

dimension underlying the Thai social system. This,

consequently, enables her to further identify 9 value

clusters, based on the relative correlations among

values and through use of inter-subjectivity method from

a number of scholars familiar with Thai culture and

personality.

The 9 value clusters according to the priority of

importance, representing the dimensions whereby

characteristics of individuals (group) and national

character can be meaningfully described.

Characterizing a national culture, of course, does not

mean that every person in the culture has all the

characteristic dimensions arranged in the same order of

importance. Therefore, in describing the Thai national

characteristics, we are referring to the common

characteristic elements within the Thai culture - the

national norms, or group norms in case of describing

particular group. This should be kept in mind when

interpreting the 9 value clusters in the following

section.

The grouping of the 9 value clusters for explaining the

Thai national character is based more on the

Instrumental values - the common means for the

relatively varying goals, due to the nature as well as

to its findings.

By nature, Instrumental values, as modes of behaviors

serving as means, instrumental to the attainment of the

goals, reflected effective social interaction patterns

of a culture. Logically, different cultures may have

subtly socialized different means to attain goals.

Therefore, the findings of Thai Instrumental values

should be able to reveal the culturally learned patterns

of social interactions, whereby Thai people learn to use

them to survive and function effectively in Thai

society.

Together with in-depth studies, research data render

support to the overall picture that the Thai social

system is first and foremost a hierarchically structured

society where individualism and interpersonal

relationship are of utmost importance. And it is

reflected in the following 9 value clusters on a

continuum of psychological importance from high to low,

as presented below. It should be borne in mind moreover

that the higher the order, the closer to the self and

more likely to be activated to guide actions.

1. Ego Orientation

2. Grateful Relationship Orientation

3. Smooth Interpersonal Relationship Orientation

4. Flexibility and Adjustment Orientation

5. Religio-Psychical Orientation

6. Education and Competence Orientation

7. Interdependence Orientation

8. Fun-Pleasure Orientation

9. Achievement-Task Orientation

1. Ego Orientation

The Thai are first and foremost ego oriented,

characterized by the highest ego value of being

Independent- being oneself (Pen tua khong tua eng), and

a very high value of Self esteem. Closer inspection

reveals that it is constantly ranked top priority, with

the exception of farmers who ranked it relatively low

(8th) among all Thai groups.

Thai people have a very big ego, a deep sense of

independence, pride and dignity. They cannot tolerate

any violation of the "ego" self. Despite the cool and

calm front, they can be easily provoked to strong

emotional reactions, if the "self' or anybody close to

the "self" like one's father or mother, is insulted.

There are countless number of examples in the media,

where people can readily injure or kill another person

for seemingly trivial insults. As an example, at a party

in which the host was celebrating his winning the

black-market lottery, a guest (guest A) was getting

impatient for the delayed local puppet show and started

making noises. Angry when he was reprimanded by another

guest (guest , he yelled at guest B to mind his own

business. Apparently, guest B's big ego cannot take

guest A's remark, he beat A's head with a whisky bottle,

and gunned him down right between his eyes.

Another was the case of former Deputy Prime Minister

General Chavalit Yongjaiyudh who promptly resigned from

the Cabinet in June 1990, after PM's Office Minister

Police Captain Chalerm Yoobamrung criticized General

Chavalit's wife as a "walking jewelry case" in public.

This incident triggered off the Supreme Commander

General Sunthorn Kongsomppong to defend the former Army

C-in-C's dignity by demanding the Prime Minister to

remove Chalerm. The sequence of these overt conflicts

contributed to the resignation of the Prime Minister in

December 9, 1990. Although Prime Minister Chatichai

reshuffled his Cabinet, the open rift with the military

elite was irreparably widened.

Basically, it boils down to the question of "face" and

"dignity". Violation to the "ego" self cannot be

tolerated. Numerous examples can be found everyday to

illustrate this important value orientation. Many

analyses use Buddhist influence to explain why the Thai

are so gentle, ever-smiling, non-aggressive, affable and

have high tolerance for uncertainty. However, they fail

to explain the sudden emotional outbursts of Thai

behavior. Incidents of violent actions ranging from

breaking up of relations, verbal and physical fights, to

killing, can be found both in the less religious urban

Thai as well as in the more religious oriented rural

Thai, and more so with the hooligan (Nak-leng) class who

can easily be provoked with just a non-verbal stare.

Since the "ego" of the Thai is so important, it

naturally follows that the Thai have the "avoidance

mechanism" to fend off unnecessary clashes. And this

intricate mechanism is delicately and keenly observed by

all parties involved in an interaction. It is only cases

where indirect means are not used that interactions will

result in negative feelings and emotional outburst if

provoked in public. Therefore, using the

"Buddhism-explain-all" blanket approach, that Buddhism

teaches non-self, avoidance of emotional extremes,

detachment, etc., might have missed quite a bit of

reality.

This "ego" orientation is the root value underlying

various key values of the Thai, such as "face-saving",

"criticism-avoidance, and the Kreng jai attitude which

roughly means "feeling considerate for another person,

not want to impose or cause other person trouble, or

hurt his/her feeling".

The "face" is identical with "ego" and is very

sensitive. Since the Thai give tremendous emphasis on

"face" and "ego", preserving one another's "ego" is the

basic rule of all Thai interactions both on the

continuum of familiarity-unfamiliarity, and the

continuum of superior-inferior, with difference only in

degree. Even a superior would also observe not to

intrude too much of the subordinate or the inferior's

ego. For a Thai, this is not something to be taken for

granted. They intuitively observe this root of

interpersonal social rules. Each knows his appropriate

role, appropriate means to handle interactions when

roles come into contact, and how far one can go, and so

on.

2. Grateful Relationship Orientation

For a culture in which relationship is also very

important besides "ego", it is not surprising to find a

number of relationship related values emerged and secure

high ranking orders in the cognitive systems of the

people. In general, the presentation of most Thai

interactions are honest and sincere, and the Thai are

bound for sincere and deep reciprocal relationships. And

the deepest one is the psychologically invested Bunkhun

relationship, as opposed to the "etiquettical" or

"transactional" relationship. Bunkhun (indebted

goodness) is a psychological bond between someone who,

out of sheer kindness and sincerity, renders another

person the needed helps and favors, and the latter's

remembering of the goodness done and his ever-readiness

to reciprocate the kindness. The Bunkhun relationship is

thus based on the value of gratitude. Therefore, this

value orientation is characterized by the highly valued

Grateful quality in a person, and by the patterns of

Bunkhun or grateful relationship.

Reciprocity of kindness, particularly the value of being

Grateful is highly valued characteristic trait in Thai

society. Unlike some other nations, especially in the

West, the Thai have been socialized to value this

Grateful (Katanyu) quality in a person.

A person should be grateful to persons who render

Bunkhun (goodness, helps, favors, etc.) to him. By being

Grateful, it implies two aspects:

Roo Bunkhun, which means to know, acknowledge, or

constantly bear in heart the kindness done.

Tob thaen bunkhun, which means to reciprocate the

kindness whenever there are opportunities.

It is an exchange of relations that is not bound by time

or distance. Although the person who renders help,

kindness, and favors, is usually done without

expectation of anything in return, the obligated person

must be Grateful. And Bunkhun must be returned, often on

a continuous basis and in a variety of ways, because

Bunkhun should not and cannot be measured quantitatively

in material terms. It is an ongoing, binding of good

reciprocal feelings and lasting relationship.

Therefore, being Grateful to Bunkhun constitutes the

root of any deep, meaningful relationship and friendship

- be it grateful bond towards one's parents, or to a

relative who supports one through school, or a teacher

who provides one with knowledge, or a good friend who

helps one out at times of troubles, etc.

Certainly, there are degrees of Bunkhun, depending

largely on the subjective perception of the obligated

person, the degree of need, the amount of help, and the

degree of concern of the person who renders help. But

what is important is the fact that the Thai are brought

up to value this process of gratefulness - the process

of reciprocity of goodness done, and the ever-readiness

to reciprocate. Time and distance are not the factors to

diminish the Bunkhun. It is an important base for Thai

relationships.

While being Grateful is a dominant value underlying

important relationships, there are variations found

among different groups, which help to explain certain

observable behavioral patterns. S. Komin reported that

rural people value this characteristic trait

significantly higher that the urban Bangkokians. In

fact, the national rural sample ranked it the most

important value of all, while the Bangkokians ranked it

4th. Moreover, inspection across occupational groups

reveals that farmers ranked it top significant order,

while government officials and students ranked it 4th

and 5th respectively. This indeed explains the

congenial, warm and sincere relationship and atmosphere

one feels when entering the rural area.

3. Smooth Interpersonal Relationship Orientation

Unlike some Western cultures whose top values tend to

focus on Self-actualization, Ambition and achievement,

down-playing such values of Self-control and Politeness,

the Thai, after pricing "ego" and "a grateful

relationship", place high value on a group of

'other-directed' social interaction values - all added

up to project a picture of smooth, kind, pleasant,

no-conflict interpersonal interactions. This orientation

is characterized by the preference for a non-assertive,

polite and humble type of personality (expressed through

appearance, manners, and interpersonal approach), as

well as the preference for a relaxed, and pleasant

interaction which accounts for the "smiling" and

"friendly" aspects of the Thai people, fascinating most

foreign visitors.

Using Komin's terminology, this group of

`other-directed' social interaction values is called

"social smoothing" values. They are projected by the

following values, listed according to their rank order

of importance:

1. Care and Consideration

2. Kindness and Helpfulness

3. Responsiveness to Situations and Opportunities

4. Self-Control, Tolerance and Restraint

5. Politeness and Humbleness

6. Calmness and Cautiousness

7. Content

8. Social Relations

S. Komin reported that the first two values - Care and

Consideration, and Responsiveness to Situations and

Opportunities - have never slipped from the high value

group. Moreover the whole group of "social smoothing"

values have consistently shown to have very few

variations across groups and over time. Almost no

significant differences were found when considering

different backgrounds, such as sex, education level,

occupation, wealth, political affiliation, or religion..

This finding is indeed exciting, because it suggests

that, more than anything else, the consistency across

groups and over time, is due to the uniform perception

from the Thai of all walks of life, and that these

values are deeply internalized and are actively

functional in the everyday life of the Thai. And the

Thai are intuitively keen in observing and practicing

these subtle social rules.

3.1. Core of "Social Smoothing" Values

What constitutes the core and essence of this group of

"social smoothing" values? As a group, each of these

values reflects certain aspect of interpersonal

interaction traits or goals. Among them, the core value

rests on the value of Care and Consideration, the

highest and thus psychologically more significant value,

as it indicates the deepest reason for the surface

smooth and pleasant interpersonal interactions. This is

obviously a Thai cultural-laden value, and an important

means to maintain or preserve one another's feeling and

ego (Raksa nam jai kan). This value shares the closest

meaning with the concept of Kreng jai mentioned earlier

in relation to "ego" preserving. While Kreng jai is a

base concept, Raksa nam jai kan or Care and

Consideration slightly emphasizes more the interactional

aspect of the concept.

The cognition of the Thai social interaction projected

by the group of social smoothing values, is as follows:

that at all time, one shall be careful not to hurt

another person's feeling ("ego"), for example, not to

criticize as well as not to reject another person's

kindness or good intention, even though it is contrary

to one's own feelings. The fact that one disagrees with

another person's opinion or is not convenient or

comfortable to accept another person's kindness, etc.,

does not entitle him/her to hurt the other's "ego".

Therefore, being flexible (Responsive to situations and

opportunities) in not doggedly forcing and asserting

one's own desire at times of potential differences and

conflicts, is of prime importance in the Thai society.

Besides, showing of Nam jai (literally means `water from

the heart', ie., kindness, consideration, and sincere

concerns) in being Kind and helpful, is something to

give out without any expectation in return. The Thai are

not calculative in the showing of kindness and help.

This is why it has been overtly observed by foreigners

that Thai interactions are usually smooth pleasant, and

"often accompanied by genuine kindness and an interest

in the well-being of the other."

There are countless daily examples to illustrate this

Thai social interaction behavioral pattern. This pattern

retains even at unusual events, like coup d'état. The

coup d'état in Thailand, as often as we have, are not

like anywhere else. As expressed by the Japanese

ambassador to Thailand in a television interview, they

are "friendly changing of government leaders" or Palace

guards, hardly bloody. The deposed Prime Ministers were

often escorted out of the country to live for a period

of time, before they were allowed back.

3.2. Successful Personality

Besides showing positive gestures of sincere kindness

and concerns, in order for interaction to go smoothly,

it also requires on the part of interactors, such

characteristic traits as having a certain degree of Self

Control, Tolerance and Restraint , as well as Politeness

and Humbleness. This polite and humble "front" or polite

and humble approach is very important for the Thai,

since it soothes one another's "ego". It naturally

follows that showing of one's aggressiveness and

superiority, even overt self-confidence, more often than

not, brings about only negative perception of Man sai

(feeling indicating a mixture of jealousy and disgust)

from the interactor and audience in general. Frequently,

this term is used to comment about that person behind

his back.

Time and again has proved that a successful personality

in the Thai cultural context, is often one of competence

and substance, but most important of all, one has to

have a soft and polite appearance, presentation and

approach - as best illustrated in the Thai phrase Orn

Nork Khaeng nai which literally means "soft outward,

solid and firm inside". A number of Western educated

highly competent and superiority projecting

personalities, known for their straightforwardness (Khid

yangrai ko phood yang nan, meaning `Speak what one

thinks') and integrity in standing-up for what they

believe, cannot stay long in the organization, after

receiving only indirect, slow and non-cooperative

performances for a while.

Even in religious circles, which are supposed to be more

spiritual in orientation, again there are many cases of

highly competent, no-nonsense, more outspoken, more

principled and achievement oriented intellectuals, who

are often blocked by the typical silent boycott or

passive cooperation.

For interactions to be smoothly processed and without

overt conflicts, such characteristics of being Calm and

Cautious - Jai yen, the ability to calm oneself as well

as calmly control situations by taking a slow, and

careful step - is indeed of prime importance. This value

is activated when a Thai faces problems or conflicts.

And all these "social smoothing" values purport to

maintain good Social Relations.

These "social smoothing" values relatedly project a

picture of smooth, kind, pleasant, no conflict,

interpersonal interactions - in short, the surface

harmony as observed by many. They are the necessary

means to function successfully in Thai society. And the

Thai are intuitively keen in observing and practicing

these subtle implicit social rules too.

It is however important to note that behind the smooth,

pleasant, and polite interaction, is the respect for one

another's ego, dignity, and psychological integrity -

the core concern of not to hurt others. It is the

balance between the positive "ego" self on the one hand,

and on the other hand, keeping the smooth and pleasant

interactions as the means to preserve one another's ego

as well as an end in itself from which the Thai derive

pleasure and genuine enjoyment. It is this element of

the positive value of the "ego" self that lies beneath

the relaxed personality and the relaxed and Sanuk (fun)

interactions, enjoying certain measure of independence

by being one's own master without disturbing others,

ever adjusting one's equilibrium to environment, while

strictly observing all those interpersonal and

interactional social rules. This is the core cognition

behind the behavioral pattern of the everyday life

social interactions of the Thai. And it is this value of

smooth and pleasant interpersonal interaction that gives

Thai people the image of being very "friendly" people,

and Thailand, the "Land of smile".

4. Flexibility and Adjustment Orientation

Besides ego and smooth interpersonal relations values,

the Thai are flexible and situation-oriented. This value

in fact consistently scores high in the cognition of

Thai people, regardless of different backgrounds and

groups.

In general, for the Thai, there is nothing so serious as

to be unbendable or unchangeable. This flexibility value

orientation is somehow correlated with a laxness in

principle, and consequently reflected in certain

behavioral pattern like, "decision-shifting" and

corruption.

4.1. Flexibility Over Principle and Ideology

This flexibility value in response to situations and

opportunities, manifests itself as a core value

regulating a number of conspicuous values and behavioral

patterns. Because of this value, it is not surprising to

find "decision-shifting" behavioral pattern quite common

for the Thai, such as vote-switching,

position-switching, or even switching of principles.

Those who have observed political behaviors of the Thai

Members of the Parliament (MPs) year after year, would

understand why many MPs switched their votes at the

crucial time, switching their positions, or even

switching one's political party, for no reasons of

ideology or principles.

Basic to these "switching" behaviors is always the

personal conflict based on the "self", the "in-group",

and the situation, that are the main motivating forces.

It is always the "person" and the "situation" over

principles and systems. Hundreds of political reports

that appeared in the media can testify to this.

The same pattern moreover occurs in the formation of

political parties. Their policies and ideologies can

hardly be differentiated. Factions in the Thai political

system are indeed not based on ideological or policy

differences, rather they are based on personal conflicts

and "in-group" interests.

4.2. Flexibility and Corruption

Since the Thai are not principle oriented, and with the

high value for personal relationships, they also appear

not to be strictly law-oriented. In practice, principles

and laws are ever-adjustable to fit persons and

situations. In other words, laws are rules laid out in

papers; but what is wrong or right depends not on the

rules, but instead on who the person is or whom the

person knows. A prominent Thai businessman ironically

described this phenomenon in a seminar:

We Thai are not a society of law; we are a society of

relationship.... It is not what a person has done that's

wrong; it's who he is.... If he is your cousin, or your

friend, then what he has done is not wrong. But if

another person does the same thing, and it's somebody

you don't like, then what he has done is wrong...

This is the reason why law enforcement in Thailand

hardly works. If it does, it is selectively enforced on

those who are either nobody or do not know anybody, or

who have no money to ease their wrong-doings or buy

their way out of problems. As a society of relationship,

it is easy and common for an officer, upon request from

even friends of friends, to pull out, cross out or

destroy a traffic citation issued. For the sake of a

smooth relationship, officers would overlook, turn a

blind eye, or keep silent. The point here is that, while

the basic Thai value system should not be blamed as the

major factor for corruption, it definitely does not help

to inhibit corruption either.

In general, this characteristic "Flexibility and

Adjustment" value orientation has perhaps accounted for

varieties of behavioral patterns, ranging from the

facilitation of ethnic assimilation process, to the

tendency of being corruption prone. In addition, it

provides a deeper understanding to the various existing

interpretations of the Thai being "unpredictable",

"non-committing", "irresponsible" or even "selfish" and

"opportunistic", by foreigners.

5. Religio-Psychical Orientation

Theravada Buddhism, as the religion of the country,

professed by 95% of the total population, undoubtedly

has directly or indirectly exerted a strong influence on

the people's everyday life. However to see how much such

influence is actually perceived and functioning in the

everyday life of the Thai people and thus

differentiating them from other cultural group, might

not be simple and needs closer scrutiny.

Komin's findings of value priority show that the value

for Religious and Spiritual life has secured a very high

and important place in the cognition of Thai people in

general. There is no doubt that Buddhism has a conscious

significant role in the everyday life of the Thai. The

attitudinal data of 1981 show that most Thai (93.6%)

perceived religion as important and having influence in

their life, with more intense religious influence found

in the rural Thai than Bangkokians, and more with the

less educated than the highly educated, the poorer than

the richer, and so on. It is very interesting to note

here that the Thai-Muslims are clearly differentiated

from the Thai-Buddhists for their extremely high value

of religion.

With regards to religious activities, likewise, the Thai

are constantly engaged in merit-making, and numerous

other religious ceremonies. These activities are

religious rituals. And as a Buddhist country, there are

such activities to perform all year round, at home, at

work, and in the community. Such occasions like,

merit-makings on one's birthday, a new house, new

company, new building, celebrations of anniversaries,

etc., not to mention those of festivals, customs, and

religious days. It is no wonder that the Komin's

national samples showed high rate of these ritual

religious behaviors and ceremony participation.

However, to which extent these religious attitudes and

activities of Buddhist rites and customs reflect the

depth and functions of Buddhism is another matter.

5.1. Psychological Function of Some Religious Concepts

The essence of Buddhism characterizes the truth of the

phenomenal world of everyday life experiences - that

everyday world is caught up in desires and thirst or

Kilet, which inevitably produces karmic responses,

leading to a cycle of rebirths. And the Buddhist

doctrinal religious goal is to escape from the clutches

of karma and the cycle of rebirths (Samsara), by

separating oneself from the world of illusions, and

thereby gaining wisdom and insight into the karmically

conditioned world, underlying the phenomenal world; and

ultimately reach nirvana.

Ideally, all Buddhists more or less believe in this

doctrine. However, the more important question is to

what extent this ideal teaching of Buddhism is actually

taken and interpreted in everyday life experiences, and

under what conditions those religious concepts are

mostly used. Knowing so will surely contribute to a

better understanding of the Thai social behavior.

Reincarnation-Nirvana

While the Thai are seemingly overwhelmed by the

perceived influence of Buddhism in their life, most of

them have little deep knowledge about it. In general,

the Thai do not make conscious effort to reach nirvana,

nor do they fully and succinctly believe in it. It is

not in the cognition of the general Thai to think of

reaching the ultimate state of enlightenment. In fact,

Bunnag, in her careful analysis of the social matrices

of Thai Buddhism, has drawn attention to the striking

fact that none of the Thai monks whom she interviewed

"appeared to consider Nirvana a relevant goal for which

to strive."

A Thai would not be too surprised with the finding,

because it is an everyday life reality. However, in

spite of such irrelevance of these two "other-worldly"

doctrines, Buddhism is still perceived as important at

all times.

Karma

Among all "other-worldly" doctrines, the doctrine of

karma is the most functional one - in the sense that it

always finds its place in everyday life interaction. In

reality, the concept of karma has almost always been

used in "after-event" description or attributions, with

the differentiation between "good karma" (Bun wassana)

and the "bad karma" usually referred to as Kam. The Thai

generally believe in the unequal Bun wassana of each

person. Each person is born with unequal results of

predestined goodness (good karma). The Thai always use

this concept in situations to attribute to someone

else's success, fortune, high status, promotion, or

having good family, good children, and so on. It is used

to refer to self only as a conversational ploy to humbly

refuse any suggestion for higher status or anything

associated with success or promotion, etc. And it is

always used in a negative form, like "I don't have the

Bun wassana for...". In cases when it is used to truly

reflect one's feeling, it indicates psychological

acceptance of one's failure and other's achievement,

attributing the cause of one's failure and the cause of

other's achievement to something beyond one's ability.

Thus, it helps to reduce tremendous psychological

pressures on one's inability to measure up to one's

achievement goals.

With regards to the concept of Kam (bad karma), it is

found that the Thai usually use this concept in

situations associated with negative events, bad

fortunes, tragedies, disfavor, injustice, etc., that

happened to oneself or others. Whether or not one is

responsible for the mishaps that occurred to oneself,

the cause of the mishaps or failure is attributed to

one's Kam. Illustration of this is the common phrase:

"It is my Kam to ... (have such and such consequence)",

which is often said in a tone of accepting the state of

being without ability to change one's lot. The belief of

the "bad karma catching up with you" as in the phrase

Kam taam sanong is evident. It is usually used to refer

to the situation when misfortune happened to somebody

who has been known to have had done something bad in the

past. It is used for self only as a caution not to do

anything bad, particularly to others, because the Kam

will catch up.

The range of situations to which karma is used to

attribute is widespread, covering all kinds of

behavioral consequences, including those of one's own

doing. In case of those who consciously know the results

of their own doings, the use of this scapegoat concept

psychologically helps to rid them of their conscience.

The more one uses this concept, particularly when

consequences of wrong doing is involved, the more one's

sense of right and wrong is blurred. Thus, it explains

the meaning of such often heard phrases, like "Kam jing

jing thii thook jab" - meaning "It's my Kam (or my

predestined bad luck) to be arrested". It is not his

wrongdoing that should be blamed, but rather the bad

luck of the situation that he is caught that is to be

blamed. Indeed these religious notions have tremendous

psychological functions. More often than not, they are

"after-action" rationalization or justification. They

serve psychologically as a defense mechanism for a whole

range of negative experiences.

5.2. Superstitious Beliefs and Behaviour

Layman Buddhists in general do not have in-depth

knowledge about Buddhism, but they have enough general

concepts to make use of them to serve one's

psychological equilibrium. In practice, they believe in

spirits, in astrology, and practice a variety of

magical, superstitious behaviors. Irrespective of group

differences, this belief in supernatural power is a

dominant characteristic of the Thai. Manifestations of

supernatural belief are prevalent in everyday life,

through belief in spirits, in predestinated Duang (one's

personal astrological star), in fortune-telling, in Bon

barn sarn klaw (making wishes and vows to the spirits),

and in black magic and Sadoa Khroa (supernatural rituals

to stop bad fortune), etc.

The influence of superstitious beliefs is so deep to the

extent that even Western educated Ph.D. scientists would

refuse to fathom the scientific and religious conflicts,

and would never forget to wear their charms and amulets

when traveling, for instance.

Apparently, superstitious beliefs and behaviors in

various forms are self illustrative of the Thai

belief-behavioral systems. As a check of some

superstitious beliefs and practices, the results of

Komin's Thai Value Studies revealed that for certain

superstitious behaviors like Doo mo doo

(fortune-telling) and Phook duang (having one's personal

star read by fortune-teller), and Bon baan saan klaw

(making vows to spirits), the urban Bangkokians engaged

in such behaviors more often than the rural people; the

educated Thai more than the uneducated; the Government

officials of various levels as well as the hawkers did

more than the farmers, laborers, etc.

6. Education and Competence Orientation

With respect to the value of education and its related

values, the findings of the Thai Value studies revealed

that knowledge-for-knowledge sake value does not receive

high value in the cognition of the Thai in general.

Education has been perceived more as a "means" of

climbing up the social ladder, of gaining higher

prestige and higher salary, rather than an end value in

itself. This functional value of being labelled as

educated is very clear in everyday life experience, and

indicates as well that the Thai people value and give

importance to form more than content or substances.

6.1. Form over Content Value

The value of "form" more than "content" seems to

underlie a number of behavioral pattern, ranging from

bribing to getting good grades. Since the Thai people

place highest value on the "ego" self, the "face", and

social relations, these decorative external labels,

degrees, decorations, etc., thus naturally become

important. The possession of them would identify the

owner with the respected class of the society. These

empty labels are highly valued as indicators of prestige

and honors, something to be possessed, with or without

the suitable worth - the content.

However, since values are always used in relative terms,

there is no intention to mean that there are no Thai who

would value content and work diligently against

obstacles to achieve their ideal goals. The fact is,

while there are Thai who are serious workers and who

value competence and substance, there are also those

who, not only value the reverse more, but would seek to

possess those decorative forms, either by hook or by

crook.

6.2. Form and Material Possession Value

Most Thai and foreign observers of the Thai would agree

that the Thai value good form and appearance, as well as

material possessions. They are particular about

appearance and dressing, in quantity and quality with

designer labels, and brand names of all kinds. This is

why imitated merchandises make good business, for they

cater to those who really cannot afford them. This

appearance conscious value is an everyday life reality.

As a matter of fact, Komin's sociolinguistic analysis of

conversational topics in Thai social interactions shows

that one of the common conversational themes, is

appreciating one another's clothing and its accessories

at length.

Such "form" and "material possession" oriented behaviors

are evident in all levels of social class. People bought

what they do not really need, but to show that they also

possess them. Frugality is one of the high values of the

Thai. "Spending more than one's means" is a common

syndrome. One foreigner in Thailand did not understand

why his Thai friend decided, much beyond his means, to

buy a 3 million baht power Mercedes-Benz. The answer

received was that he was the managing director of a

company.

As for the lower class, this over-spending syndrome has

become the core cause of the endless circle of poverty,

now that everything can be bought on hire-purchase

basis.

6.3. Form And Perception of Development

The Thai generally value material symbols, as they are

seen as "forms" of being "modern" (Thansamai) and

"developed". Even government officials are stuck with

these misleading "forms". "Development" has often been

equated with roads, electricity, refrigerators,

motorcycles, etc.

The story of a Buddhist monk's work in a poor village in

the Northeastern region is quite illustrative. The monk

used to think of development in terms of roads and

electricity, etc. Determined to fight poverty and

backwardness, he convinced the villagers to give up

their land to build a new road that would link their

homes to the city. "Development" did quickly stream in.

Motorcycles started roaring into the village.

Refrigerators replaced earthen jars for keeping drinking

water. Electric rice cookers, televisions, jeans,

lipsticks, shampoo, fragrant soaps and other consumer

goods advertised on television became integral part of

the villagers' lives, while gambling and drinking become

more widespread. And the villagers plunged deeper into

debts.

Disillusioned, the monk changed his views, and that was

when real change began to take place in this small

Northeastern village of Surin Province. Through

meditation and Buddhist teachings, he got the villagers

to analyze and identify the chronic disease of their

poverty, to understand that their gambling, drinking and

unnecessary expenses have worsened their situations, and

to help them think out means to ease their problems. The

villagers made religious vow to decrease expenses on

unnecessary products, and they revitalized their

community spirits, collaborated on a series of projects

from the village's Rice Bank, Fertilizer Bank,

"Friendship farming", etc. And now the village has

retained their self-reliance.

It is fortunate that this village somehow managed to

pull through the dilemma. How many more of the country's

55,000 villages are there that are trapped in the

misconception and misguided road to "development".

7. Interdependence Orientation

This value orientation reflects more of the community

collaboration spirits, and in a sense the value of

coexistence and interdependence. The collaborative

behavior is a dominant behavioral pattern, particularly

in the rural community. Coorporation in rice agriculture

by members of the village is nothing new in Thailand.

They cooperate in maintaining the small irrigation

canals that water their fields, and have to agree on

plans to share water. They help one another throughout

the cycle of rice-growing, from planting to harvesting.

In other spheres, they also cooperate in house-building,

as well as in the psychologically and culturally

important events, like life crises, serious illness,

births, ordinations, and funerals.

This is succinctly reflected through the value

priorities of the rural Thai, where the two highest

discrepancy values that distinguished the rural Thai

from the urban Thai are the religious value and the

community-oriented value of Brotherhood spirit in

helping one another and for being Interdependent and

mutually helpful.

These values of interdependence and mutual help enhance

the value of coexistence. Coupled with the higher order

values of "ego", "smooth interpersonal relationship" and

"flexibility", these values help to facilitate the

coexistence of different ethnic groups in Thailand.

Better still, they help to make Thailand the rare

example of successful assimilation of ethnic groups like

Muslims and Chinese, saving Thailand from the painful

experiences of ethnic conflicts and scandals. Although

interdependence orientation of helping each other is a

dominant rural community value which might help

stimulate neighbors to participate in different cultural

and religious vents, basically it also requires the

"flexibility" value orientation of the Thai not to shun

off other cultural groups, that make cultural

assimilation successful.

8. Fun-Pleasure Orientation

Thailand has been known as the "Land of smile", a

stereotyped image that comes along with the

much-talked-about myth of the Thai being easy-going,

enjoying the everyday routine pleasures of life with a

happy carelessness, not letting troubles touch them

easily, viewing life as something to be enjoyed not

endured, and would not do anything that is not Sanuk (to

have fun, to enjoy oneself and to have good time). They

are easily bored or Buua, and therefore lack of the

"stick-to-it-ive-ness" or the serious commitment and

sustained level of hard (and often unpleasant) work,

which is essentially required for the success of

industrial undertakings. They are generally lethargic,

lazy, unaggressive, and fond of having fun and leisure.

To which extent this myth with all its traits is true

and understood in the right perspective? Evidently, many

writings on this myth are derivations from the primary

sources of Ruth Benedict (1943) and Embree's (1950)

anthropological observations, and the application and

implication of which should be subjected to further

verification and analysis.

Komin made a very clear and convincing comment on the

matter. First of all, the general conclusion of the Thai

as being lethargic, lazy, unaggressive, and fun-leisure

loving, is meaningless. It is almost the standardized

description of any agricultural, non-industrialized

society, be it Thai, Indonesian, or Micronesians in the

Pacific Islands, etc. They are often general attributes

given to the more relaxed way of life of the rural

community dwellers, as opposed to the more hectic way of

life of the competitive industrialized city dwellers.

Culturally, it is meaningless in not being able to help

distinguish the Thai cultural traits from other

cultures.

8.1. Nature of Fun-Pleasure Oriented Behaviors of the

Thai

Empirical data show quite a different picture from that

of the aforementioned myth. This type of myth seems to

catch only the outward presentation of the "fun" and the

"lightness" approach to things of the Thai. Komin in

fact looked at and explained this myth from two aspects:

the abhorrence of hard-work, and the fun-leisure and

"smiling" aspects.

For the issue of abhorrence of hard-work, research data

showed that the private sector and the lower class in

fact did work hard, and ranked work over fun-loving and

pleasure. It is the Bangkokians and particularly the

government officials who preferred fun-loving over work,

and generally known to be very lax and inefficient in

job performance.

As for the fun-leisure and "smiling" aspect, it can be

explained as the resulting behavioral pattern from

keeping a pleasant and smooth face-to-face interpersonal

interaction, which is a higher value. In so doing, most

Thai social interactions are pleasant, light, might be

superficial, yet fun and humorous in nature. Joyful

behaviors can be observed in any Thai party, which is

usually characterized by small talks, gossips, jokes,

teasing one another, making fun of all kinds of

non-personal inconsequential things and events,

including playing with words, using puns and kham phuan

(reverse of syllables for taboo word), etc. in a clever,

humorous and amusing fashion. Imitations of Chinese and

Indian speaking Thai are always good for a laugh.

Besides these essential mechanisms of the so-called

"social cosmetics" which are so deeply rooted that they

appear as genuine presentation to project the "smiling"

image, it is also a projection of the basic inclination

of being kind, generous, sympathetic towards other human

beings, strangers and foreigners included. For instance,

it is not uncommon to find a Thai traveling with his

friend in a tour van, offering sweets or fruits that he

is having with his friends, to the foreigners who

happened to be sitting nearby, a share of his joy of

eating, as if they were from his own community. Some

foreigners might feel uneasy with such show of

familiarity treatment. For the Thai, it is nothing

special, nor having a purpose, but just a friendly

gesture, and not expecting anything in return.

Definitely, the Thai are not xenophobic, which could

possibly due to the fact that they have never been

colonized, and thus adding to the friendly interactions

with foreigners.

Finally, is this "smiling" and friendly interaction,

with lots of fun and joyful behavior, a true indicator

of valuing fun and pleasure as an end in itself, or it

is a necessary means to function effectively in Thai

society? The research findings suggested that this

fun-pleasure value functions as the imperative

mechanism, as means to support and maintain the more

important interpersonal interaction value. When asked

"Life is short, so one should enjoy as much as one can",

the results show that there are more disagreements to

the statement than agreement.

Particularly with regards to planning for the future,

the majority of the respondents disagreed to the

statement that: "Future is uncertain, so there is no

need for planning for one' future".

8.2. Everyday Life Concerns and Worries

Despite the pleasant, relaxed and joyful behaviors as

their everyday life means of interactions, the Thai as

human beings do have their concerns and worries. What

occupies their minds in their daily existence could be

therefore an interesting aspect upon looking at the Thai

people.

9. Achievement-Task Orientation

This orientation is characterized by the achievement

motivation need emphasizing internal drive towards

achievement through hard work. According to McClelland

(1961), the achievement need within individuals, would

promote entrepreneurial achievement or the achievement

of professional excellence, which in turn would propel

economic growth.

Believing that hard work alone will propel on the road

to success, Western work ethic has emphasized personal

achievement - what one has done or "achieved" through

one's best ability and hard work. And basic to this is

the focus on the inherent value of work itself and work

related attitudes for that matter, striving to attain

professional excellence. However, to which extent the

Thai score in this perspective, and what is the nature

of achievement motivation of the Thai?

9.1. Thai Achievement-Task Orientation

The Komin's research data showed that achievement value

of being Ambitious and Hardworking to attain one's

goals, has been consistently ranked as the least

important value (the 23rd) in relation to the rest, with

little variation across groups and over time, with the

exception of two groups - Thai businessmen who ranked it

the 19th, and highest of all Thai groups was the Thai of

Chinese descendants who ranked it the 13th. This finding

evidently substantiated certain attributes of Chinese

characters that accounted for their success story of

"rags-to-riches". However, all Thai, without exception,

ranked hardworking achievement value much lower than the

group of social relationship values. Furthermore, this

value ranking result was highly and consistently

substantiated by the work achievement related attitudes

and behaviors. For example, in a forced choice statement

of choosing the importance between "maintaining good

relationship" as opposed to "seriously devoted to work",

61.0% of the total national sample perceived

"maintaining good relationships" as more important than

"work", with only 15.0% seeing the reverse as more

important.

A closer look further revealed that 64.9% of the Bangkok

Thai and 55.2% of the rural Thai perceived maintenance

of good relationships as more important than work. It

was interesting to find that government officials valued

"work" the least (8.7%), while valuing "maintenance of

good relationship" the highest of all groups (65.8%).

And vice versa, it was the farmers who preferred "work"

the highest. This confirms the accepted reality of the

low performance - the Chao chaam yen chaam lethargic

performance - of government employees who are more keen

in paying lip services, taking bribes, seeking good

relations with the powerful others, etc. A good relation

wins all, not tasks.

However, the bottom 23rd ranking of this achievement

value (as opposed to the 3rd ranking of industrial

society like the United States), and the overall 61.0%

preference of "relations over work" as opposed to the

15.0% preference of "work over relations", are

sufficient to endorse that, according to the Western

sense of achievement need which is based on the person's

internal drive of hard work, the Thai achievement need

score is very low. And this is because it is seen in the

cultural context where social relations is of utmost

importance.

With regard to this achievement value orientation, many

writers both foreign and Thai, have for years talked

about the Thai as having low achievement needs to work

for economic and material gains, that they abhor

hardwork and value only what is sanuk and fun.

In fact, empirical data have shown quite the opposite

picture that the Thai are very much material possession

oriented. They do spend some money on merit-making

according to various appropriate occasions throughout

the year, but they spend much more on regular basis, for

abundance of material possessions. Besides, they are

constantly struggling for more. When the national

samples were asked: "When one's life is reasonably

comfortable or livable (Pho kin pho chai, meaning having

enough to eat and spend), that should be enough, and

there is no need to continue struggling for more", more

than half (63.7%) of the national samples indicated it

is not enough, one should continue to struggle for more.

Examining the break down of various occupational groups

from skilled workers, hawkers, farmers, up to government

officials and businessmen, the degree of intention to

struggle for more increases accordingly. This might

indicate an increasing incentive or drive to struggle

for more, when they see higher possibility of success as

they move higher up the social ladder with higher

education, status and money. It seems to be the spiral

moving-up of higher education/status - higher

possibility, higher drive, higher expectation, etc. This

tendency was consistent in the rural and urban Thai,

with the exception of the older people of 50 years and

above, and the peasants of the North and the Northeast.

The slackening drive of these group is understandable.

The old age would probably not drive against their

decreasing energy. Whereas for the North and the

Northeast peasants who are among the poorest regional

groups of the country, they have to exhaust their

ingenuity against the harsh nature of the most arid

region and find themselves survive on such food like

small frogs, silkworms, crickets, or the Kudjii

(beetles) found in the buffalo dung, and the like.

Even so, if to say that these poorest Thai are generally

lazy, abhor hardwork, and just want to have fun and

Sanuk, how can one explain the fact that these poor

peasants from the Northeast, despite their inability to

speak any foreign language and with little education and

skills, dare to go and work as un-skilled or

semi-skilled laborers in totally alien countries like,

the Middle-East, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Singapore and

Brunei, etc. One can hardly see Sanuk or fun in their

plight. Not only that they do work to survive and to

accumulate more monetary and material gains, they are

thinking of making money all the time, particularly more

than the government officials who sit securely in the

life-long employment of the government offices, enjoying

their status, and through which in no hurry, they can

make easy money along the way.

In actuality, do the Thai really abhor hard work as many

foreigners have described? The low achievement value

ranking should not lead one to interpret so. They do

work hard, particularly those independent occupations,

like small business, shop owners, skilled workers,

hawkers, down to farmers. One would realize this fact if

he would just take a look at the lower unskilled labor

force circles, like laborers at any construction site,

peddlers and street vendors, hawkers, shopkeepers, and

Mae khaa (market women) in the fresh markets, etc. where

most of them have minimum education, and 90% of them are

women of all ages.

A typical picture of the laborers at a construction site

will illustrate the hardworking drive of this lower

less-educated class, where one can see some male

construction workers working on the building, with a

good number of children and women sometimes as old as

60s and over, shouldering buckets of water, cements,

etc., doing all the details work of mixing and paving

the finished mixture. . They are hardworking, and are

"this-worldly" material oriented, to struggle for more

and to gain more. Data further revealed that the rural

peasants showed a higher preference of "material

possession" to "fun or Sanuk". It revealed that "fun" or

"Sanuk" is more a characteristic of the Bangkokians, the

government officials, students, and the higher educated,

definitely not the less advantaged classes. This is

consistent with the value ranking of the rural people

who ranked Ambitious-hardworking higher than Fun-loving

and Pleasure, where the government officials, students,

and the Bangkokians ranked the reverse.

9.2. Nature of Achievement Motivation of the Thai

The general low achievement value of the Thai should not

be misinterpreted as abhorrence of hardwork, but that in

the context of Thai social value systems, hardworking

alone is not sufficient. What is then the nature of the

achievement motivation of the Thai? For other cultures,

like the Americans whose culture is characterized by

high individualism together with high freedom and

equality, achievement means one perseveres aggressively

towards one' goal and succeeds in a rags-to-riches,

self-made man manner. Understandably, the American

achievement value was ranked 2nd and 3rd by the national

samples and was positively correlated with competence

and assertive values.

On the contrary, in the Thai context, S. Komin found out

that task achievement value was ranked the bottom 23rd,

and was negatively associated with all the important

social relationship values. For the Thai, it is

Hardworking through Competence (r=.16) and Education

(r=.15) to attain Social recognition (r=.16) for Success

in life (r=.15). However, in the process, it seems to

disrupt or seen as negatively related to important

social relationship values like Caring-considerate

(r=-.20), Kind-helpful (r=-.20), etc., and also

negatively related to the time-honored Asian value of

being Obedient-respectful (r=-.20). This means that

while the Americans having task itself and

professionalism as achievement goals with self assertive

efforts as means, the Thai give prestige and social

recognition as goals for success in life, with work and

relations as necessary means. With social recognition as

an important underlying motive for success, achievement

in Thai society is more social in nature. Also it is

very rare that work alone would lead one to the Thai

sense of achievement. Instead, it has always been the

good relationships, with or without work, that

guarantees this Thai sense of achievement, exemplified

in the majority of government position holders.

In conclusion, for the Thai, task achievement value is

usually inhibited by social relationship values. While

submissiveness and good relations, with or without work,

has always paid-off, task per se or worst still, task

which seen as threat or without submissive relations to

superior, does not lead to success in life. In the Thai

cultural context, achievement in the Western sense

indeed would not fit.

Primary Source : Fr. Peter S. Niphon SDB, Hat Yai

Full unedited text (includes footnotes and references)

Secondary Source : S. KOMIN, Psychology of the Thai

People: Values and Behavioral Patterns. Bangkok,

Research Center, National Institute of Development

Administration.

[PeaceBlondie]

To the original poster: I also have never been violent, and I'm from the USA. The last time anybody attacked me, I was in the 6th grade (quite petty stuff, too). When we all say that generally, Thailand is much less violent than the USA, keep in mind that, according to FBI statistics, the average American is the victim of violent crime once in every 100 or 200 years.

Anything's possible, but if you have behaved yourself this well up until now, you'll probably live 39 more years in Thailand without being a victim.

It's the old line by Jim Croce, "Don't step on Superman's cape."

[ColPyat]

considering you come from the U.S.A you have nothing to worry about, as the states is by far much worse for violence than thailand.

im from australia and i would never go into the city on my own at night but in bangkok im never worried.

Sorry, but you are wrong there. The statistics are rather clear, and they show Thailand far more violent than the US or any other western country (and most Asian countries apart from the war zones).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

It very much depends where you go in Bangkok and surroundings, there are areas that are no go zones. Mostly though foreigners other than Burmese, Cambodian and Laotian immigrant labors rarely go there as these areas hold no interest whatsoever.

Random violence of the most extreme sort is a daily event. It is true that as a westerner you are in less risk to be attacked than Thais, but that will only contribute to your personal perception of safety, not to allow you to make a statement on general safety in Thailand.

It is a myth that most violence here is connected to business or is personal. That may have been so in the past, but Thailand has well caught up with the rest of the world regarding random violence.

Thailand is a very violent society, and increasingly so. No romanticism can obfuscate the clear numbers.

[english_farang_lady]

Having lived here for two years, I think that some Thai cultural/religious beliefs have much to answer for. For example, the principal of "jai yen" Literally apparently a "cool heart". So all this rage and anger boil inside them, and because of the lack of outlet, eventually it erupts.

This is, I believe linked to "loss of face". Both seem entrenched Thai beliefs. Whether Buddhist or Cultural I do not know.

The place I have noticed anger and danger, if not actual violence, per se, is the way that Thai drivers use their vehicles. The fact that their windows are blacked out, and they cannot be seen unless up very close seems to encourage them to do act out all that pent up rage. If they cant be seen, then there is no "lack of face". The anonimity encourages them to do what they feel.

I have driven in at least twelve countries worldwide, many of them "developing" but have never ever encountered such reckless, suicidal use of the motor vehicle. It seeems to me, this is their prime outlet for pent up rage.

I will not, and have not driven in Thailand, and have no intention of doing so. Been driving since I was 16 without incident, and am not a typical "granny" or "mum with kids" who seem the worst in Europe to me. But at least they follow some of the rules. Here it is dog eat dog. I have many times seen traffic lights on red totally ignored.

But that is, of course, my own opiniion, based on observation. Do your research most carefully, guess ultimately it depends upon your priorities, and how much risk you are prepared to take.

[qualtrough]

I think one of tbe reasons why so many posters here are obsessed with any violence in Thailand is because they bought into the dream of a perfect, peaceful Buddhist Kingdom that was never true in the first place. Therefore anything untoward that happens is evidence to them that the sky is falling and that Thailand is on its way to becoming a violent, dangerous place for tourists and foreign residents. Thailand does have a high rate of violent crime, but it is almost entirely confined to Thai on Thai, with some notable exceptions as noted here by the Chicken Little brigade.

I have found that even Thai men who fit into the hooligan or hood category have manners that would be considered exquisite by Western standards. I have never seen the 'in your face' type of swagger and behavior that is so common in many areas of the U.S and sadly, now Europe. In my experience you really have to go looking for trouble here to find it. Anybody thinking of living or visiting here would be better off realizing that the danger posed by drivers here is far, far greater than any danger that might be posed by violent Thai men.

[taxexile]

I have never seen the 'in your face' type of swagger and behavior that is so common in many areas of the U.S and sadly, now Europe.

exactly , and it is that hiding of the inner self here that makes it so difficult for the uninitiated to understand who they may be dealing with.

[65Craig]

I think a lot of you are failing to realize just how large the United States is as compared to Thailand. Per Capita, Thailand seems to have far more violent crime. I think the link that shows a graph on Murders with firearms by country is a perfect example (Thailand 20,032 and the US 8,259). Not saying the US doesn't have major crime, it does, but you also have to take it into context.

Does this mean you should avoid coming to Thailand? OF COURSE NOT!!! I grew up in the SF Bay Area (Berkeley), and it was just common sense to avoid places like Richmond and Oakland. Or when I ventured into the City (SF) to avoid places like the Tenderloin, Hunters Point, etc., where drug use, prostition and crime ran rampant.

Come to Thailand, enjoy life, but be well aware of your surroundings and use a little common sense and self restraint and you'll be fine. Been living here off and on (more on) for the last 3 years and have never really encountered any violence. Seen a few fights, but the funny thing was, it was between farangs and usually over something like drinking too much or over Soccer (during the World Cup)... Umm I mean Football to most of you

[uptou]

i don't think that thailand is approaching the mad max level as a lot of people seem to think.i think its common knowledge that most thais hate confrontation,eg the smile,dont kill me & i wont kill you,& will take alot of bad manners,rudesness,etc,without a word or a moan,& then go back to the tranquility that they so love,seemingly unafected.maybe there are problems sometimes because they never really complain or express themselves,& predjudices build up,unexpressed.i think this is forced apon them by their religion & society.

[terry57]

considering you come from the U.S.A you have nothing to worry about, as the states is by far much worse for violence than thailand.

im from australia and i would never go into the city on my own at night but in bangkok im never worried.

Sorry, but you are wrong there. The statistics are rather clear, and they show Thailand far more violent than the US or any other western country (and most Asian countries apart from the war zones).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms

It very much depends where you go in Bangkok and surroundings, there are areas that are no go zones. Mostly though foreigners other than Burmese, Cambodian and Laotian immigrant labors rarely go there as these areas hold no interest whatsoever.

Random violence of the most extreme sort is a daily event. It is true that as a westerner you are in less risk to be attacked than Thais, but that will only contribute to your personal perception of safety, not to allow you to make a statement on general safety in Thailand.

It is a myth that most violence here is connected to business or is personal. That may have been so in the past, but Thailand has well caught up with the rest of the world regarding random violence.

Thailand is a very violent society, and increasingly so. No romanticism can obfuscate the clear numbers.

very interesting colpyat,

but the last time i was in an america city i felt like i had to be very careful.

i dont have that same level of awareness when im in bangkok.

maybe ive been under an illusion all these years, but i'll still take my chances on the streets of bangkok.

thanks for the stats and i dont doubt them, but the reality of the situation seems different.

thank you very much.

[ColPyat]

very interesting colpyat,

but the last time i was in an america city i felt like i had to be very careful.

i dont have that same level of awareness when im in bangkok.

maybe ive been under an illusion all these years, but i'll still take my chances on the streets of bangkok.

thanks for the stats and i dont doubt them, but the reality of the situation seems different.

thank you very much.

Thailand, especially Bangkok, can be very deceptive.

I definately would say that for most foreigners Thailand is a safer place than many of their western societies. Several reasons for that, one, there still is quite a bit of lee way given to westerners, and more important - the danger zones in a city like Bangkok hold no attraction to most westerners whatsoever. They are in the outskirts - industrial wastelands, slums, and not one attraction in sight.

The nightlife there is mostly limited to dodgy karaokes, snooker parlours, and some not very nice Thai style discos (all of those venues see very regular violence, included and especially gun related violence).

And in rural Thailand, well, i don't know how others experience is, but in my wife's area out in the sticks there is still very much the rule of the gun and clan law.

It is always a question of perception, and that is formed by personal experience (in addition to reading stats and researches). How wide reaching is ones perception, how far did one get involved with the life style of Thailand's very large under classes and their experience of life. Which differs widely from the one of the relatively small middle and upper classes, and the one of most westerners.

[bkkmadness]

Sorry, but you are wrong there. The statistics are rather clear, and they show Thailand far more violent than the US or any other western country (and most Asian countries apart from the war zones).

The problem with the 'murder by firearms' stat that everybody pulls up in these debates does not include stats for any other type of violence and does not cover murder by any other weapon. To just say more people are shot in Thailand and to offer that as conclusive proof that Thailand is more violent than a country where less people are murdered by shooting is far too basic.

Look at the crime stats for Mexico for example, far behind Thailand for murders with firearms, far above it with murders though.

Look at Australia, far higher for rapes per capita that Thailand, that's a violent crime also.

Then once you factor in what's reported, what's not, how the charges are laid, whats prosecuted etc. then you can see that stats don't conclusively win this argument.

Edited April 4, 2007 by bkkmadness

[qualtrough]

very interesting colpyat,

but the last time i was in an america city i felt like i had to be very careful.

i dont have that same level of awareness when im in bangkok.

maybe ive been under an illusion all these years, but i'll still take my chances on the streets of bangkok.

thanks for the stats and i dont doubt them, but the reality of the situation seems different.

thank you very much.

Thailand, especially Bangkok, can be very deceptive.

I definately would say that for most foreigners Thailand is a safer place than many of their western societies. Several reasons for that, one, there still is quite a bit of lee way given to westerners, and more important - the danger zones in a city like Bangkok hold no attraction to most westerners whatsoever. They are in the outskirts - industrial wastelands, slums, and not one attraction in sight.

The nightlife there is mostly limited to dodgy karaokes, snooker parlours, and some not very nice Thai style discos (all of those venues see very regular violence, included and especially gun related violence).

And in rural Thailand, well, i don't know how others experience is, but in my wife's area out in the sticks there is still very much the rule of the gun and clan law.

It is always a question of perception, and that is formed by personal experience (in addition to reading stats and researches). How wide reaching is ones perception, how far did one get involved with the life style of Thailand's very large under classes and their experience of life. Which differs widely from the one of the relatively small middle and upper classes, and the one of most westerners.

ColPyat, with your first-responder experience here you probably see more violence in one night that most farangs or Thais will see in a lifetime. The same would be true for police and EMT back in the US as well in many areas. While valid, don't you think that might somewhat skew your judgement? By that I mean the fact that you always jump in to tell people how deceptive it is here and how danger lurks down almost every soi.

I do not disagree that Thailand has and has had since time immemorial a very high rate of violence. Having said that, the lion's share of that is Thai on Thai, and very specific--gang against gang, drunk against drunk, spouse against spouse, business owner against business owner, etc. What worries tourists or foreign residents is that they will be the victim of some random or uprovoked violence. From what I have seen that is still very, very, rare. I have never felt in danger or fallen victim to violence since wondering around just about every part of BKK and upcountry and have survived so far. And to add to that I am not aware of any of my friends or aquaintances here who have been the victim of a violent attack. Am I saying that no farangs have problems? No, not at all. But I will say that pound for pound a farang minding their own business almost certainly has a lesser chance of falling victim to a violent crime than they would if they were back home.

I would give someone visiting or living here the same advice I would give them back home. If someone picks a fight with you or starts to get angry just apologize and walk away. Don't try to prove a point or make a point. I would also advise anyone especially worried about their personal safety to avoid going out drinking late at night, especially in red light areas. Again though, if I had to choose between doing that in a red light district in the US and one here, I would choose the one here hands down.

BTW, I am not in any way connected with the tourism business. In fact, if some farangs stay away away or go home because they are frightened that would please me as I think we are getting a bit too overrepresented in some areas.

[blaze]

Thanks for that essay taxexile (post number ten in this thread)- should be handed out at the arrivals gate. It's one thing to infer some of this stuff in daily interactions= but this provides a really complete picture- the parts all fit and somehow, work.

Certainly those of us who spend an inordinate amount of time mud-wrasslin' in the general news/politics threads would do well to study it.

Edited April 4, 2007 by blaze

[terry57]

very interesting colpyat,

but the last time i was in an america city i felt like i had to be very careful.

i dont have that same level of awareness when im in bangkok.

maybe ive been under an illusion all these years, but i'll still take my chances on the streets of bangkok.

thanks for the stats and i dont doubt them, but the reality of the situation seems different.

thank you very much.

Thailand, especially Bangkok, can be very deceptive.

I definately would say that for most foreigners Thailand is a safer place than many of their western societies. Several reasons for that, one, there still is quite a bit of lee way given to westerners, and more important - the danger zones in a city like Bangkok hold no attraction to most westerners whatsoever. They are in the outskirts - industrial wastelands, slums, and not one attraction in sight.

The nightlife there is mostly limited to dodgy karaokes, snooker parlours, and some not very nice Thai style discos (all of those venues see very regular violence, included and especially gun related violence).

And in rural Thailand, well, i don't know how others experience is, but in my wife's area out in the sticks there is still very much the rule of the gun and clan law.

It is always a question of perception, and that is formed by personal experience (in addition to reading stats and researches). How wide reaching is ones perception, how far did one get involved with the life style of Thailand's very large under classes and their experience of life. Which differs widely from the one of the relatively small middle and upper classes, and the one of most westerners.

ColPyat, with your first-responder experience here you probably see more violence in one night that most farangs or Thais will see in a lifetime. The same would be true for police and EMT back in the US as well in many areas. While valid, don't you think that might somewhat skew your judgement? By that I mean the fact that you always jump in to tell people how deceptive it is here and how danger lurks down almost every soi.

I do not disagree that Thailand has and has had since time immemorial a very high rate of violence. Having said that, the lion's share of that is Thai on Thai, and very specific--gang against gang, drunk against drunk, spouse against spouse, business owner against business owner, etc. What worries tourists or foreign residents is that they will be the victim of some random or uprovoked violence. From what I have seen that is still very, very, rare. I have never felt in danger or fallen victim to violence since wondering around just about every part of BKK and upcountry and have survived so far. And to add to that I am not aware of any of my friends or aquaintances here who have been the victim of a violent attack. Am I saying that no farangs have problems? No, not at all. But I will say that pound for pound a farang minding their own business almost certainly has a lesser chance of falling victim to a violent crime than they would if they were back home.

I would give someone visiting or living here the same advice I would give them back home. If someone picks a fight with you or starts to get angry just apologize and walk away. Don't try to prove a point or make a point. I would also advise anyone especially worried about their personal safety to avoid going out drinking late at night, especially in red light areas. Again though, if I had to choose between doing that in a red light district in the US and one here, I would choose the one here hands down.

BTW, I am not in any way connected with the tourism business. In fact, if some farangs stay away away or go home because they are frightened that would please me as I think we are getting a bit too overrepresented in some areas.

thats a very reasonable post my friend and exactly what i wanted to say.

you do it so much better than me, and thank you very much.

[ColPyat]

ColPyat, with your first-responder experience here you probably see more violence in one night that most farangs or Thais will see in a lifetime. The same would be true for police and EMT back in the US as well in many areas. While valid, don't you think that might somewhat skew your judgement? By that I mean the fact that you always jump in to tell people how deceptive it is here and how danger lurks down almost every soi.

I do not disagree that Thailand has and has had since time immemorial a very high rate of violence. Having said that, the lion's share of that is Thai on Thai, and very specific--gang against gang, drunk against drunk, spouse against spouse, business owner against business owner, etc. What worries tourists or foreign residents is that they will be the victim of some random or uprovoked violence. From what I have seen that is still very, very, rare.

In the more than six years (or is it seven now?) i have seen a definite increase in unprovoked random violence, and recently a move in fashion from machetes to shot guns in inter gang fights. I may be skewed. But i try to be objective.

I am just looking at my wife's family, for example, and there violence is very regular. One brother was nearly killed by a knife, a cousin has shot several, another uncle i don't even want to know what he was/is up to, several other distant relatives in jail. And this is not just me, many people i know who are with wifes from upcountry lower classes have very similar tales to tell.

Not in every Soi lurks danger, , the usual entertainment areas i still don't worry a bit, only with the occasional fellow drunk farang who can't be drunk and happy at the same time. The areas where i have encountered the sort of violence i always describe here are areas where i have seen not more than maybe 5 farang during all those years in addition to the three or four i have myself brought around.

My point basically is, that one cannot generalize the whole of Thailand by the perceived safety of the more upper class, and the more farang oriented areas. There is a clear flip side to this place, and only occasionally Farang and this nasty side of Thailand meet in uncomfortable encounters, while millions of lower class Thais have very little hope of escaping this flip side.

One of the reasons why most farang rarely get to see this side is, because it really holds no attraction whatsoever for anyone who has the means to live above that. Why would one live in a sub urban lower class Mu Ban or Slum miles from anywhere, if one can choose to live far more comfortable and safe?

Even though chances are indeed small that the average westerner will ever get to see this side of Thailand, i still think people should be aware that it does exist, and is not just a product of my fantasy. Just in case that one may be tempted to do something stupid in the wrong area because one is used to a different Thailand.

[jeffrosner]

I can't say that I have seen much evidence of that sort of behaviour by Thai men at all.

You're kidding right? Maybe your making a point by making a joke. Ha ha - it was funny.

Now the truth:

Thai people are violent in worse ways than Westerners because they don't think about the consequences of their actions. Thai people are Human Doings, not Human Beings.

I have witnessed more than a few times aggression that led to violence. I suspect that most of them are mean drunks.

If you want to point a finger, point it at their inability to handle liquor.

They are violent, and they will kill you for several reasons:

You're a Farang and to them you are nothing.

They know they can disappear into the rice fields when they kill someone.

The news is rife with examples of riduculous random violence: shooting, stabbings, beatings -

Good joke Dr.

JR

Edited April 4, 2007 by jeffrosner

[November Rain]

I can't say that I have seen much evidence of that sort of behaviour by Thai men at all.

You're kidding right? Maybe your making a point by making a joke. Ha ha - it was funny.

Now the truth:

Thai people are violent in worse ways than Westerners because they don't think about the consequences of their actions. Thai people are Human Doings, not Human Beings.

I have witnessed more than a few times aggression that led to violence. I suspect that most of them are mean drunks.

If you want to point a finger, point it at their inability to handle liquor.

They are violent, and they will kill you for several reasons:

You're a Farang and to them you are nothing.

They know they can disappear into the rice fields when they kill someone.

The news is rife with examples of riduculous random violence: shooting, stabbings, beatings -

Good joke Dr.

JR

You're trolling, right? There can be no other excuse for such a post. As a girlfriend of a Thai man and the mother of someone who will grow into a Thai man, I take great offence to your post. That is an extremely nasty, inaccurate view. Despicable!

[soundman]

I can't say that I have seen much evidence of that sort of behaviour by Thai men at all.

You're kidding right? Maybe your making a point by making a joke. Ha ha - it was funny.

Now the truth:

Thai people are violent in worse ways than Westerners because they don't think about the consequences of their actions. Thai people are Human Doings, not Human Beings.

I have witnessed more than a few times aggression that led to violence. I suspect that most of them are mean drunks.

If you want to point a finger, point it at their inability to handle liquor.

They are violent, and they will kill you for several reasons:

You're a Farang and to them you are nothing.

They know they can disappear into the rice fields when they kill someone.

The news is rife with examples of riduculous random violence: shooting, stabbings, beatings -

Good joke Dr.

JR

You have to be kidding, right...

I work with my staff of 40 thai men on a daily basis. They are all working class thais aged from 16 - 50. They booze up frequently as well. Not once in five years have I had to break up a fight, comment on domestic violence, or handle any other issues apart from snide comments & backstabbing.

Open any newspaper from America England or Australia & you'll see just as many cases of rape, muggings, killings, & whatever..

How the <deleted>*k can you judge a population on a few news clippings per day for 70,000,000 people?

Take your goggles off man..

Soundman.

[jeffrosner]

I can't say that I have seen much evidence of that sort of behaviour by Thai men at all.

You're kidding right? Maybe your making a point by making a joke. Ha ha - it was funny.

Now the truth:

Thai people are violent in worse ways than Westerners because they don't think about the consequences of their actions. Thai people are Human Doings, not Human Beings.

I have witnessed more than a few times aggression that led to violence. I suspect that most of them are mean drunks.

If you want to point a finger, point it at their inability to handle liquor.

They are violent, and they will kill you for several reasons:

You're a Farang and to them you are nothing.

They know they can disappear into the rice fields when they kill someone.

The news is rife with examples of ridiculous random violence: shooting, stabbings, beatings -

Good joke Dr.

JR

You're trolling, right? There can be no other excuse for such a post. As a girlfriend of a Thai man and the mother of someone who will grow into a Thai man, I take great offence to your post. That is an extremely nasty, inaccurate view. Despicable!

Trolling? I think not. My son will be born in less than 18 hours. He will be Thai and American. I have my work cut out for me. I will have to make sure that he does not become "THAI" by sleeping with as many women as he can, making babies here and there and not taking care of any of them.

Want to argue that one with me? Oh yes, you would rather level ad hominem attacks by calling me despicable. If telling the truth is despicable, then I am worse.

Why are so many Thai women seeking non-Thai men? Want to go after that one? My guess is that you'll level more vitriol and shrink from the issue.

This country spends its time fighting gambling while the people drink themselves silly. They treat gamblers with more ferocity than they do drunk drivers. Not sure I know anyone killed by gambling.

Go on, make my day, take me on and tell all of us how wonderful a family man most Thai men are.

JR

Professor Emeritus Despicabus

Edited April 4, 2007 by jeffrosner

[ZukiSuzuki]

You white guys are funny. (In a strange way)

[LoveDaBlues]

Thailand is no different than the states. Be careful about WHERE you go, WHEN you go there, and WHO you associate with. Most farangs with few exceptions bring the violence upon themselves by not following the above.