Birth in Thailand

[tc77]

A Thai woman I made friends with seems to be having a hard time with her pregnancy. She has little money and the public hospital is messing around her c-section. She is 47 weeks pregnant. Is this normal for the public system? 

[Sheryl]

What do you mean by "messing around" and why does she need a c-section?

 

If the only issue is that she is overdue, usual practice would be to induce labor.

 

do ultrasounds confirm gestation of 47 weeks or is that just going by last menstrual period (which can be very unreliable)?

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

46 minutes ago, tc77 said:

She has little money and the public hospital is messing around her c-section.

Government hospitals normally only do C-sections if there's some sort of emergency.

[stupidfarang]

If she has not had a c section before and she is aiming for a natural birth then doctors say it has to be a c section it will be free. If she has had a c-csection before then it will cost around 10,000 to 12,000 baht. Hospital staff here can be a pain, people will be sub servant to the staff and the staff can give patient a hard time. What part of Thailand is she in out of interest?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, stupidfarang said:

If she has not had a c section before and she is aiming for a natural birth then doctors say it has to be a c section it will be free. If she has had a c-csection before then it will cost around 10,000 to 12,000 baht. Hospital staff here can be a pain, people will be sub servant to the staff and the staff can give patient a hard time. What part of Thailand is she in out of interest?

I think what you meant to say is that if she wants to have an elective (not medically indicated) c-section it will cost (if indeed they will do it at all).

 

The criteria is medical necessity, not whether or not the woman has had a prior c-section.

[tc77]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What do you mean by "messing around" and why does she need a c-section?

 

If the only issue is that she is overdue, usual practice would be to induce labor.

 

do ultrasounds confirm gestation of 47 weeks or is that just going by last menstrual period (which can be very unreliable)?

 

 

 

She couldn’t be induced and hasn’t gone into labour. Gestation is from conception date

[tc77]

She is in a very poor part of Thailand. They apparently have said the baby is okay. The first time they sent her away as she hadn’t paid, the second time no beds, the third time they stuffed up the booking. 

[tc77]

8 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

If she has not had a c section before and she is aiming for a natural birth then doctors say it has to be a c section it will be free. If she has had a c-csection before then it will cost around 10,000 to 12,000 baht. Hospital staff here can be a pain, people will be sub servant to the staff and the staff can give patient a hard time. What part of Thailand is she in out of interest?

If it’s a public hospital? Nawamin public I think. Her English isn’t very good.

Edited January 25, 2020 by tc77
Error

[tc77]

She has no insurance as she wasn’t working when she fell pregnant. I’m presuming this makes it more complicated.

[tc77]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Government hospitals normally only do C-sections if there's some sort of emergency.

Wouldn’t 47 weeks pregnant be classified as an emergency?

[Sheryl]

No, no and no

 

If she is not covered under the Social Security scheme then she is covered under the government "30 baht" scheme. She does not have to pay anything and the fact that she says she did suggests either:

 

1) She is not going to a government hospital but a private one

 

OR

 

2) She is asking for an elective c-section

 

OR

 

3) She is lying to you (very, very common here - they assume foreigners don't know Thais have free health cover, and lots of foreigners fall for it, which keeps it going).

 

There is no government hospital called Nawamin. There is a private hospital by that name in Bangkok.

 

How can she date from conception? Unless she only had sex once in say a two month period, she cannot.

 

And why can't she be induced? None of this is adding up.

 

Where in Thailand is she? Are you sure not in Bangkok, that's where Nawamin Hospital (private) is located.

 

If she is from upcountry but physically now in Bangkok that could be an issue as she may be registered for free care in her home province, unless an emergency she has to deliver at the hospital where she is registered for it to be free. That might also explain wy she is trying to go to a private hospital.

[tc77]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No, no and no

 

If she is not covered under the Social Security scheme then she is covered under the government "30 baht" scheme. She does not have to pay anything and the fact that she says she did suggests either:

 

1) She is not going to a government hospital but a private one

 

OR

 

2) She is asking for an elective c-section

 

OR

 

3) She is lying to you (very, very common here - they assume foreigners don't know Thais have free health cover, and lots of foreigners fall for it, which keeps it going).

 

There is no government hospital called Nawamin. There is a private hospital by that name in Bangkok.

 

How can she date from conception? Unless she only had sex once in say a two month period, she cannot.

 

And why can't she be induced? None of this is adding up.

 

Where in Thailand is she? Are you sure not in Bangkok, that's where Nawamin Hospital (private) is located.

 

If she is from upcountry but physically now in Bangkok that could be an issue as she may be registered for free care in her home province, unless an emergency she has to deliver at the hospital where she is registered for it to be free. That might also explain wy she is trying to go to a private hospital.

Thank you for your response. I calculated the date from the last time she told me she had intercourse with my friend which actually equates to 45 weeks 4 days (I checked again). I may have the hospital wrong. I spoke with the private one who tried to help. 
 

I just looked into the 30 baht system, Im not sure whether she has the universal card. I think you are right and there are lies she won’t say why she can’t be induced which also doesn’t add up. She is 100% pregnant I think I’m getting other fibs though. I believe she is currently living in Nakhon Nayok but she has told me she is staying with a friend in Bangkok.

Edited January 26, 2020 by tc77
Looked up 30baht

[Sheryl]

EVERY Thai not covered under one of the other schemes is covered under the 30 baht scheme. Does not require a card. Which hospital is based on  where registered in a tabian ban.

 

No reason at all to assume that the date she had sex with your friend (if in fact true) is the date she conceived. Nor any reason to assume that he is the father.

 

Nakhon Nayok is not an unusually poor part of Thailand.

 

You are being lied to from start to finish.

 

She is trying to get you to pay for an elective cesearan at a private hospital or else just get some spending money off you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tc77]

Sheryl - can she get into a public hospital in Bangkok if that’s not where she is from? would they say she has to go private or go back to her province?

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, tc77 said:

Sheryl - can she get into a public hospital in Bangkok if that’s not where she is from? would they say she has to go private or go back to her province?

 

if she is not registered in a tabian ban in Bangkok and shows up not in labor, no emergency then yes they will tell her the choices are to either go back to where she is registered or  pay to deliver there. As the costs are pretty low people sometimes opt to do this (at government hospital in Bangkok) rather than travel back home.

 

Which she already knows and has known all along. She prefers to try to get you to pay for a private hospital and is lying for that purpose.

 

She also BTW lied about the cost at Nawamin hospital. And is almost certainly lying about having to have a c-section because they "can't induce" her.

 

And I would not lay odds on your friend actually being the father.

 

The bigger question is why are you persisting with all this? You have been lied to from the word go, and she will keep spinning out new stories as soon as you debunk the last one. It won't end as long as she thinks there is a chance you'll give her money.

 

She wants money from you and is lying, without any scruples,  to get it. Very, very common.

 

Give it to her or not as you prefer but don't kid yourself that it was necessary on humanitarian grounds.

 

It is unlikely she is as poor as you think she is. Thai women skilled at lying to foreign men never are.

 

[tc77]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

if she is not registered in a tabian ban in Bangkok and shows up not in labor, no emergency then yes they will tell her the choices are to either go back to where she is registered or  pay to deliver there. As the costs are pretty low people sometimes opt to do this (at government hospital in Bangkok) rather than travel back home.

 

Which she already knows and has known all along. She prefers to try to get you to pay for a private hospital and is lying for that purpose.

 

She also BTW lied about the cost at Nawamin hospital. And is almost certainly lying about having to have a c-section because they "can't induce" her.

 

And I would not lay odds on your friend actually being the father.

 

The bigger question is why are you persisting with all this? You have been lied to from the word go, and she will keep spinning out new stories as soon as you debunk the last one. It won't end as long as she thinks there is a chance you'll give her money.

 

She wants money from you and is lying, without any scruples,  to get it. Very, very common.

 

Give it to her or not as you prefer but don't kid yourself that it was necessary on humanitarian grounds.

 

It is unlikely she is as poor as you think she is. Thai women skilled at lying to foreign men never are.

 

Thank you so much. I’ve passed on what you have said and told my friend to not give her any more money which he agreed to. He is still questioning what parts are twu and what aren’t as he met her other kids, knows where she lives, talks to her daily (she is definitely pregnant but can’t guarantee it’s his), has a copy of her ID and everything but at least he won’t be giving her more money the next time ‘something goes wrong’

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, tc77 said:

Thank you so much. I’ve passed on what you have said and told my friend to not give her any more money which he agreed to. He is still questioning what parts are twu and what aren’t as he met her other kids, knows where she lives, talks to her daily (she is definitely pregnant but can’t guarantee it’s his), has a copy of her ID and everything but at least he won’t be giving her more money the next time ‘something goes wrong’

She's adjusted the date of the pregnancy to match up with when your pal was around.

Sounds like she got pregnant 2-3 months after he had left.

[stupidfarang]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I think what you meant to say is that if she wants to have an elective (not medically indicated) c-section it will cost (if indeed they will do it at all).

 

The criteria is medical necessity, not whether or not the woman has had a prior c-section.

Maybe in the west but I know three cases where due to the women having a c section first time around the hospitals have said theyhad to have c section again, why I do not know, this is what has happen and thais do not ask normally why a doctor says this or that, Also a private hospital birth will cost 100,000 baht up and if she is outside of BKK then doctors in a smaller city most likly work in the goverment hospital and the private hospital so same doctor delivery. Just differant price. Can get a private roon at a goverment hospital which helps and not expensive

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by stupidfarang

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, stupidfarang said:

Maybe in the west but I know three cases where due to the women having a c section first time around the hospitals have said theyhad to have c section again, why I do not know, this is what has happen and thais do not ask normally why a doctor says this or that, Also a private hospital birth will cost 100,000 baht up and if she is outside of BKK then doctors in a smaller city most likly work in the goverment hospital and the private hospital so same doctor delivery. Just differant price. Can get a private roon at a goverment hospital which helps and not expensive

 

They said the same to my former Brit wife after the first baby delivered by  emergency C section (age 30) in the Uk. She went on to have two natural births and another C section at the end (age 43).

Edited January 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[Sheryl]

There is some slight risk in having a vaginal birth after a c-section but it can be attempted depending on what the original indication for c-section was and current parameters. It is a medical decision and this is nto the issue...the issue is that poster said that if the woman had had a prior c-section she would have to pay for another and this is untrue. The only time a Thai woman has to pay for c-section in a govt hospital is if it is being done electively.

[tc77]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There is some slight risk in having a vaginal birth after a c-section but it can be attempted depending on what the original indication for c-section was and current parameters. It is a medical decision and this is nto the issue...the issue is that poster said that if the woman had had a prior c-section she would have to pay for another and this is untrue. The only time a Thai woman has to pay for c-section in a govt hospital is if it is being done electively.

I appreciate all your guidance Sheryl. She definitely is or was pregnant but the story keeps changing from “I’ll sell the baby” to “Baby is born but unless you give money or come to Thailand no photo” etc. My friend is shattered as this was a woman he was in a relationship with for quite a while, and they communicated via video regularly once he left. He has not given her any more money, is not going to and is accepting what has happened but is  traumatised. Thanks again

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, tc77 said:

I appreciate all your guidance Sheryl. She definitely is or was pregnant but the story keeps changing from “I’ll sell the baby” to “Baby is born but unless you give money or come to Thailand no photo” etc. My friend is shattered as this was a woman he was in a relationship with for quite a while, and they communicated via video regularly once he left. He has not given her any more money, is not going to and is accepting what has happened but is  traumatised. Thanks again

 

How does he know she is (or was) definitely pregnant?

 

These types of scams are common and most often there is no baby at all.

 

Sometimes there is one, but multiple men are conned into thinking they are the father. And not infrequently the actual father is a long-standing Thai husband or boyfriend who has been in the background all along (and is fully oi board with the con).

 

Obviously if there is a baby and it is his, he has a responsibility. He should tell her:

 

1 - No money for delivery costs, use the government system. Go to the hospital where he is registered in a tabian ban.

 

2 - After the baby is born he wants a DNA test to establish paternity. If it shows that the baby is his, he will accept financial responsibility for the child's upbringing.  He will go to court to establish legal parental rights and negotiate a support arrangement with her along with visitation rights. (It will likely not get to this stage as odds are either no baby or not his,  but who knows..)

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, tc77 said:

I appreciate all your guidance Sheryl. She definitely is or was pregnant but the story keeps changing from “I’ll sell the baby” to “Baby is born but unless you give money or come to Thailand no photo” etc. My friend is shattered as this was a woman he was in a relationship with for quite a while, and they communicated via video regularly once he left. He has not given her any more money, is not going to and is accepting what has happened but is  traumatised. Thanks again

Oddly enough I once lived with a Thai lady who was trying to sell her baby.

Thai court was still saying 'no' after 5 years of negotiations and court visits.

(Swedish boyfriend died in a m/c accident, the Swedish grandparents were trying to buy the child)

Selling the baby would be unlikely to be allowed.

Edited January 27, 2020 by BritManToo

[tc77]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

How does he know she is (or was) definitely pregnant?

 

These types of scams are common and most often there is no baby at all.

 

Sometimes there is one, but multiple men are conned into thinking they are the father. And not infrequently the actual father is a long-standing Thai husband or boyfriend who has been in the background all along (and is fully oi board with the con).

 

Obviously if there is a baby and it is his, he has a responsibility. He should tell her:

 

1 - No money for delivery costs, use the government system. Go to the hospital where he is registered in a tabian ban.

 

2 - After the baby is born he wants a DNA test to establish paternity. If it shows that the baby is his, he will accept financial responsibility for the child's upbringing.  He will go to court to establish legal parental rights and negotiate a support arrangement with her along with visitation rights. (It will likely not get to this stage as odds are either no baby or not his,  but who knows..)

 

 

Her pregnant body has been seen. I made contact with her and she’s told me it’s a female. I don’t believe it’s his and she will refuse DNA test unless he gives her money 

Edited January 28, 2020 by tc77
Error

[tc77]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Oddly enough I once lived with a Thai lady who was trying to sell her baby.

Thai court was still saying 'no' after 5 years of negotiations and court visits.

(Swedish boyfriend died in a m/c accident, the Swedish grandparents were trying to buy the child)

Selling the baby would be unlikely to be allowed.

Exactly my thoughts. 

[Sheryl]

31 minutes ago, tc77 said:

Her pregnant body has been seen (under clothes via video call). I made contact with her and she’s told me it’s a female. I don’t believe it’s his and she’s refusing DNA test unless he gives her money which I’ve told him not too. He is going to contact Fed police and embassy for advice.

 

Under clothes as in she removed her clothes to show her belly? (That this was felt necessary already says it all re this "relationship". ) If not i.e. if clothed she may have been faking.

 

Agree highly unlikely to be his. The whole "47 weeks overdue" bit was probably a lie to make the dates work out. If there is/was a baby she conceived after he left.

 

Embassy is not going to be at all interested, most he will get is a list of lawyers.

 

Fed police of what country? For what crime?

 

I think matters are at a draw. She has refused DNA test. Tell her  if she reconsiders, let him know otherwise/until then,  nothing to discuss.

 

Oh and -- now that the story has seemingly changed to the baby already being born -- ask to see the birth certificate. If she comes up with one with her name as mother, check the date of the birth and do some math. And also see what was entered for father's name. But I think she will refuse to show a birth certificate.

 

[stupidfarang]

On 1/27/2020 at 4:21 AM, Sheryl said:

There is some slight risk in having a vaginal birth after a c-section but it can be attempted depending on what the original indication for c-section was and current parameters. It is a medical decision and this is nto the issue...the issue is that poster said that if the woman had had a prior c-section she would have to pay for another and this is untrue. The only time a Thai woman has to pay for c-section in a govt hospital is if it is being done electively.

Not true regarding paying for another c section, thai wife had a c section first child (do not know why as before I meet her in Bangkok and had to pay, but do not know how much) then 6 years later she has our child (two weeks ago), doctor told her she has to have c section because she had one first time (6 years ago), why I do not know as wife not ask (Thai not like to challenge doctor with questions) so she had a c section at goverment hospital cost 7,400.55 baht, plus 5,704.95 for medicine and 3,600 for private room (3 days)  = 16,705.05.

 

This being Thailand I think things may vary from hospital to hostipal to which town, city or Provence you are in. Note a friends wife had their first child two years ago and she had to have a c section no charge for first time c section and same city as us.

[stupidfarang]

tc77, it would be good if a DNA could be done to then know if he is the dad, Remember the baby is innocent in this regardless of what your friend and the mother say to each other. If it is his maybe helping with nappies and milk would help the baby £20 a month (1,000 baht) (£20 is a few beers on a night out). Thailand is a hard place when you have little amount of income so it would help the child which morally is the right thing to do. All so would suggest not to react to anything bad the mother says, just focus on the childs wellbeing and not argue. Do get a DNA done first, if mother wants help she will agree to it in time. 

[tc77]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:07 PM, stupidfarang said:

tc77, it would be good if a DNA could be done to then know if he is the dad, Remember the baby is innocent in this regardless of what your friend and the mother say to each other. If it is his maybe helping with nappies and milk would help the baby £20 a month (1,000 baht) (£20 is a few beers on a night out). Thailand is a hard place when you have little amount of income so it would help the child which morally is the right thing to do. All so would suggest not to react to anything bad the mother says, just focus on the childs wellbeing and not argue. Do get a DNA done first, if mother wants help she will agree to it in time. 

Thank you. She refuses to do a DNA test and is asking for much more money than that for the baby. She said right now she needs 2000baht and so she doesn’t have to go to work and can stay home to look after the baby she needs 6000 baht a month because she could find work for 6000 baht or she could “sell baby to a rich family” instead.

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, tc77 said:

or she could “sell baby to a rich family” instead.

Isn't the obvious reply "knock your socks off"?