Thailand and Bangkok ‘most at risk’ from coronavirus, scientists warn

[DrTuner]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Mullard said:

and somebody made a comparison here between censorship here and in China, saying Thailand was nowhere near as bad, or something similar. 

It's not really a fair comparison. Chinese censor very professionally. Thais censor by accident.

[Miami007]

15 hours ago, Flugg said:

Putting the whole nation at risk so the top 1 ‰ can get richer.

and what would be the solution in your opinion?  Short of closing ALL borders (air, land and sea) and also preventing Thai citizens from returning home, if they visited, let's say, Japan or the USA.  This would basically quarantine the entire country.  Restricting visits from Chinese nationals doesn't help as citizens of other countries may have been infected.  Closing all travel from China doesn't work either as people can simply transit through a third country and then go to Thailand.

 

No country has found a way to stop the virus from spreading.  Scanning at the airport, masks etc are just feel-good measures.  At the same time, we need to keep in mind that the common flu infects and kills many more people every year than this new virus (and that is with Flu vaccines available in many countries)

 

Even the Top 1% can get infected by one of their staff who had been in contact with a carrier.  The rich probably don't want to die either - so nothing to do with the "elite" putting everyone else at risk

[Miami007]

5 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

need to visit a hospital for a few non essential annual tests....wondering if

it's worth the aggro or risk...

My B-I-L is a doctor in a major hospital ... he always says that hospitals are extremely dangerous places and increase the likelihood of getting infected by something (mostly bacteria).  As everyone who sneezes will run to a hospital, it may be better to avoid them for the time being

 

[rabas]

6 hours ago, khunpa said:

 

Agree that it is "strange" my Thailand has not yet updated their numbers. But since the PM yesterday said everything is under control and they today annonce possible outbreaks, I think they working on the numbers right now. I can not wait to see what numbers they come up with.

Just saw an interesting quote unrelated to Thailand. Sound familiar?

 

At times like this we are reminded that Government is first and foremost in the business of managing consumer confidence - not your wellbeing.

[0815]

He also said that while the situation is currently under control, Thailand is not able to stop the spread of new coronavirus.

“We are not able to stop the spread,” he said.

Because not able to stop the greed for Chinese money ?

 

[metisdead]

Post containing unsubstantiated information that was copy and pasted from other sites have been removed:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences. 

[cerox]

It is not practical using the mask only once.

I use my N95 (use it for pollution) until it does not fit anymore (usually loosens around the nose first) - usually happens after 2-5 days depending on how much I use it / go out.

I did not count my mask stockpile I bought a few months ago but maybe it is around 50-80, so I have already reasons to worry because if corona continues, there will be no masks available to buy.

 

Curious about how you guys do it but for me I am very careful that the masks last as long as possible now.

[RocketDog]

16 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Nonsense.I flew out of BKK on the 14th January and am returning this weekend. I will not let the typical overreaction of TVF posters dictate the way I live my life. I gave up listening to Chicken Little and the sky falling stories in when I was a child.

The world around us is changing rapidly. Attitudes and actions that proved useful or effective in the past may not be so in the present and future. 

 

New threats emerge almost daily and ignoring them is likely to be counterproductive. 

 

Adaptation to change always has been and always will be key to survival. It's called evolution. 

[Chrysaora]

16 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Nonsense.I flew out of BKK on the 14th January and am returning this weekend. I will not let the typical overreaction of TVF posters dictate the way I live my life. I gave up listening to Chicken Little and the sky falling stories in when I was a child.

Yeah, I can see your point.  No sky falling over in China.  Nothing to see there, let's all move on.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, cerox said:

Curious about how you guys do it but for me I am very careful that the masks last as long as possible now.

 

I use my 3M masks when out and around in BKK... And for me, the fit hasn't been any problem... But instead, again for me, it's that the masks get very sweaty and wet when I'm hoofing it around. I'm careful to keep them clean, and try to let them dry off in open air at home before putting them back away in their little cellophane pouch. But once a mask has gotten sweaty and then dried several times over, I tend to replace it out of concern over bacteria growth. Fortunately, don't need to use one every day.

 

But I too am concerned about future re-supply. Right now, the re-supply situation in-country seems to be pretty dire. And I don't see the demand slacking off any time soon.

 

 

 

[Silencer]

This would have to blow up (spread) at a much higher pace for me to make any lifestyle changes in Thailand, beyond normal sanitary procedures. If I hung out with Chinese tourists or those that did, I would alter my routine, but since I don't I have little to fear at this stage.

 

The US averages 20,000-30,000 flu deaths a year and nobody panics over that statistic on a yearly basis. There is usually a vaccine available as well, which we dont have for this one, but people are not keeling over by the hundreds in Thailand. If they do, then panic.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Silencer said:

If I hung out with Chinese tourists or those that did, I would alter my routine, but since I don't I have little to fear at this stage.

 

I live in central BKK... Everywhere I go outside of home, I'm pretty much surrounded by Chinese (and other) tourists -- on the BTS & MRT, in the malls and supermarkets, eating in restaurants, walking on the streets, etc etc... So that's why my family and I have altered our routines.

 

Plus, as for the "those that did" part, how can you have the slightest clue in tourist areas like BKK, Phuket, Pattaya, CM, etc? Thai taxi drivers, shop staff, 7/11 clerks, etc etc are all points of potential exposure... And you and everyone else can have absolutely no idea about the prospect of being exposed in that kind of environment.

[mfd101]

As the situation worsens (assuming it does - which, for now, looks likely), and with Thailand generally and Bangkok in particular at the top of official lists of places outside China exposed to the threat, it will be fascinating to watch the Thai 'government's' actions (if any).

 

Other countries - Europeans, Oz - are already closing down as much travel contact with China as possible, but Thailand is still welcoming planeloads from China every day ...

 

As road safety here shows us daily, risk management is not a strength.

Edited January 30, 2020 by mfd101

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Quote

Health experts: Human-to-human spread of new virus worrying

 

BEIJING (AP) — World health officials expressed “great concern” Wednesday that a dangerous new virus is starting to spread between people outside of China, a troubling development as China and the world frantically work to contain the outbreak. For a second day, the number of infections grew dramatically.
 

The new virus has now infected more people in China than were sickened there during the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak.

 

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile, the World Health Organization’s emergencies chief said the few cases of human-to-human spread of the virus outside China — in Japan, Germany, Canada and Vietnam — were of “great concern” and were part of the reason the U.N. health agency’s director-general was reconvening a committee of experts on Thursday to assess whether the outbreak should be declared a global emergency.

 

 

https://apnews.com/a980aeb44b3840341c674a6e67c19da6

Edited February 1, 2020 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[rabas]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I use my 3M masks when out and around in BKK... And for me, the fit hasn't been any problem... But instead, again for me, it's that the masks get very sweaty and wet when I'm hoofing it around. I'm careful to keep them clean, and try to let them dry off in open air at home before putting them back away in their little cellophane pouch. But once a mask has gotten sweaty and then dried several times over, I tend to replace it out of concern over bacteria growth. Fortunately, don't need to use one every day.

 

But I too am concerned about future re-supply. Right now, the re-supply situation in-country seems to be pretty dire. And I don't see the demand slacking off any time soon.

Having bought a few masks just before they were sold out, I  too worry about reuse. Have you thought about soaking the mask in rubbing alcohol for a while and letting it dry out? 70% Ethyl alcohol is the best mixture for killing viruses, that's why they use 70%. The masks are made of "non woven mesh"  so the worry would be degradation of the mesh. Alcohol is pretty mild though. Maybe I will try with one and see what happens, I have a microscope that can resolve 0.5 microns. Water/alcohol would also help remove hoofing bi-products.

[ExpatLife]

11 hours ago, DrTuner said:

It's likely because they are faster in diagnosing and releasing the actual results. There's two possible reason now why Thais haven't updated: their lab capacity is overwhelmed by the 100+ tests they need to do or ... orders from above. Expect a cover up, a kneejerk and the usual jazz,

I have a friend from Singapore and she said someone from Wuhan who was there on holiday, got on a bus and travelled around a shopping mall all day with the virus 

[RocketDog]

6 minutes ago, rabas said:

Having bought a few masks just before they were sold out, I  too worry about reuse. Have you thought about soaking the mask in rubbing alcohol for a while and letting it dry out? 70% Ethyl alcohol is the best mixture for killing viruses, that's why they use 70%. The masks are made of "non woven mesh"  so the worry would be degradation of the mesh. Alcohol is pretty mild though. Maybe I will try with one and see what happens, I have a microscope that can resolve 0.5 microns. Water/alcohol would also help remove hoofing bi-products.

On the USA CDC website they state that soapy water kills even HIV. 

 

Would not soapy water also work for the mask without the possible degradation of plastic and synthetic materials that isopropyl alcohol (IPA) might have. 

Another test using your microscope? 

Please let us know your results. 

 

Thanks for the timely info. 

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

On the USA CDC website they state that soapy water kills even HIV. 

 

Would not soapy water also work for the mask without the possible degradation of plastic and synthetic materials that isopropyl alcohol (IPA) might have. 

Another test using your microscope? 

Please let us know your results. 

 

Thanks for the timely info. 

Just to be clear, a few studies have shown that genital cleansing with soap and water after intercourse can help prevent HIV infection, but the direct effect of a soap solution on HIV has not been investigated to my knowledge.

Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter

[RocketDog]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Killed my grandad and he was only 26, it was 1918 though!

Spanish Flu killed 50-100 million worldwide from 1917-1923, a sizeable portion of the world population. 

 

It's happened before and can certainly happen again. 

 

Is this "The Big One"? 

Probably not, but stay tuned! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

38 minutes ago, rabas said:

Having bought a few masks just before they were sold out, I  too worry about reuse. Have you thought about soaking the mask in rubbing alcohol for a while and letting it dry out? 70% Ethyl alcohol is the best mixture for killing viruses, that's why they use 70%. The masks are made of "non woven mesh"  so the worry would be degradation of the mesh. Alcohol is pretty mild though. Maybe I will try with one and see what happens, I have a microscope that can resolve 0.5 microns. Water/alcohol would also help remove hoofing bi-products.

 

I haven't found / see anything authoritative / credible that suggests washing or otherwise trying to sanitize disposable N95 masks is a suitable practice....

 

Quote

 

Cleaning Dust Masks & Disposable Particulate Respirators

Disposable dust masks and particulate respirators are not designed to be washed or cleaned. Because of their cloth-like construction disposable respirator masks should be disposed of if they become wet and/or damaged.
 

However, oftentimes users dispose of these types of respirators prematurely when the outer shell becomes slightly soiled with figure prints or work area contaminants. As long as the inside of the respirator mask is clean, not visibly damaged and breathing has not become more difficult workers can continue to wear these masks as long as they are stored outside the contaminated area.
 

Do not attempt to clean disposable respirator masks with compressed air or detergents of any kind as they will damage the integrity of the masks.

 

 

https://www.coopersafety.com/respirator-cleaning

Edited January 30, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[rabas]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Just to be clear, a few studies have shown that genital cleansing with soap and water after intercourse can help prevent HIV infection, but the direct effect of a soap solution on HIV has not been investigated to my knowledge.

Looks  like the soap question goes like this:

-- ordinary soap and water kills bacteria as it destroys their lipid (bipolar) cell membrane.

-- most viruses are encapsulated in a protein (non-polar) shell, which soap can't destroy.

-- 70% alcohol is an ideal liquid to denature (destroy) the protein shell.

-- The 30% water helps to solvate the protein. 90% is less effective but works.

 

Anti-bacterial soaps are a marketing trick and work no better than cheap soap.

Lots of detail here some neat images. https://www.quora.com/Does-soap-kill-bacteria-or-just-clean-off-bacteria-and-viruses-How-does-the-hand-washing-process-really-work

[WaveHunter]

2 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Spanish Flu killed 50-100 million worldwide from 1917-1923, a sizeable portion of the world population. 

 

It's happened before and can certainly happen again. 

 

Is this "The Big One"? 

Probably not, but stay tuned! 

A lot of credible sources believe that the "Spanish" Flu actually originated in China.  China sure has quite a track record for bringing the world such gifts !

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

Looks  like the soap question goes like this:

-- ordinary soap and water kills bacteria as it destroys their lipid (bipolar) cell membrane.

 

The reason soap and water washing is recommended as an anti-viral hygiene approach is because the action of scrubbing and washing helps remove any virus and other materials from the surface of the skin... Removes as opposed to kills.

 

[RocketDog]

Just now, WaveHunter said:

A lot of credible sources believe that the "Spanish" Flu actually originated in China.  China sure has quite a track record for bringing the world such gifts !

True. They called it Spanish after a few years but experts think China. 

 

We should be wary of ANYTHING created and exported from China. 

China produces about 70% of the world's aspirin as well as many injectable drugs sold worldwide. 

 

Think about that fact for a minute. 

 

My personal favorite is the exploding phone chargers though. So much more drama! 

[RocketDog]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The reason soap and water washing is recommended as an anti-viral hygiene approach is because the action of scrubbing and washing helps remove any virus and other materials from the surface of the skin... Removes as opposed to kills.

 

So if we assume that even if the virus is present on the mask soapy water washing still removes it with minimum impact on plastics. Then air and sunlight drying would kill any remaining virus. 

 

I'm not pushing against alcohol but just suggesting milder agents might be as effective. I want to make a mask last as long as safely possible of course. 

 

I just ordered 4pcs N95 masks with replaceable/washable filters from Lazada for ~800thb, free delivery that takes a week. Glad I did it now. 

 

Didn't check but almost without doubt the masks come from China. 

 

Talk about conspiracy theories! 

PM me for details on my latest one ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

So if we assume that even if the virus is present on the mask soapy water washing still removes it with minimum impact on plastics. Then air and sunlight drying would kill any remaining virus. 

 

I think we're talking about two different things here...

 

I'm talking about the standard consumer N95 disposable masks made entirely out of cloth-like Filtrete material. Those are the ones that are not supposed to be washed, much less get wet.

 

When you talk about plastics, I'm assuming you're talking about the different re-useable masks and respirators that have removable filters, but the hard shell structure of the mask itself CAN be washed and sanitized.

 

This...

vs.

 

This...

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mfd101]

12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

A lot of credible sources believe that the "Spanish" Flu actually originated in China.  China sure has quite a track record for bringing the world such gifts !

And one of the reasons - perhaps the main one, for ought I know - is the large number of people there living cheek by jowl with large numbers of domesticated animals. The animals are the source of the virus or bacteria which then gets transmitted to humans & thence from human to human ...

 

Which I am reminded of every day here in south Surin as I observe my Khmer family living amongst cattle, chooks, dogs, fish, and insects of all kinds, with little distinction between 'inside' and 'outside' the house and little evidence ever of handwashing. And my b/f is much the same with his children-I-mean-roosters, injected fed and washed lovingly every day ...

[URMySunshine]

21 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Spanish Flu killed 50-100 million worldwide from 1917-1923, a sizeable portion of the world population. 

 

It's happened before and can certainly happen again. 

 

Is this "The Big One"? 

Probably not, but stay tuned! 

The other thing to remember with Spanish Flu is that it happened at a time when there were no vaccines or antibiotics. Also, in the aftermath of a war, there is malnutrition and immune systems are weakened beyond where they would be. Today we live in an entirely different world. There are experts constantly scanning for signs of new viruses and the response is always swift and effective.

 

The mortality rate from coronavirus so far appears to be around the 2-3% mark. To put that into context, seasonal flu has a mortality rate of around or less than 1%. The other thing to consider also is that the pneumonia component of these flu viruses is what generally causes death in vulnerable groups. But even in a healthy person, a period of pneumonia can take many months to fully recover from, leaving the immune system compromised. This is why follow up mutations tend to be more deadly if a large number of people have already been infected with the first mutation. And it goes without saying that suddenly large numbers of people presenting with pneumonia puts medical services under server pressure as they all need treatment. Hence why the Chinese are building pop up hospitals in the outbreak area.

[WaveHunter]

17 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

So if we assume that even if the virus is present on the mask soapy water washing still removes it with minimum impact on plastics. Then air and sunlight drying would kill any remaining virus. 

 

I'm not pushing against alcohol but just suggesting milder agents might be as effective. I want to make a mask last as long as safely possible of course. 

 

I just ordered 4pcs N95 masks with replaceable/washable filters from Lazada for ~800thb, free delivery that takes a week. Glad I did it now. 

 

Didn't check but almost without doubt the masks come from China. 

 

Talk about conspiracy theories! 

PM me for details on my latest one ????

From what I have read, this virus is remarkably resilient in air and sunlight.  The protein capsules apparently can maintain integrity for up to five days outside of a living host.  At least, that's what I've read from several difference credible, science-based sources. 

 

This is why human-to-human contamination isn't the only worry.  It could be just as likely to pick up the virus from an inanimate surface like a tabletop or handrail, etc... .  Get it on your hands and touch your mouth or nose, or wipe your eyes, and you've got it!

 

Actually the real value of face masks (and protective glasses) is NOT to filter airborne viruses as much as it is to prevent you from making hand-to-face contact.

Edited January 30, 2020 by WaveHunter

[RocketDog]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think we're talking about two different things here...

 

I'm talking about the standard consumer N95 disposable masks made entirely out of cloth-like Filtrete material. Those are the ones that are not supposed to be washed, much less get wet.

 

When you talk about plastics, I'm assuming you're talking about the different re-useable masks and respirators that have removable filters, but the hard shell structure of the mask itself CAN be washed and sanitized.

 

 

Ah, good point you make.

 

I'm going by the description of the ones I just ordered, the second type you described. Thanks for clarifying those points. 

 

Clearly the paper masks are not washable but also probably not very effective, as others have warned. 

 

Among the other things I have at home in America that I wish I had here are my sturdy Kitchen Aid bread mixer and a full-blown NIOSH certified gas mask with carbon and HEPA filters replaceable. 

 

Still, given the choice I'd settle for the mixer. ????

Home-made bread is so comforting when you're sitting out the apocalypse. ????