Health Insurance.

[DrJack54]

9 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

Just done it. No 800k or 400k either.

Done what? An extension to a non O-A without insurance using an agent ??

This thread is about insurance requirement for certain extensions.

Thinking you need clarify.

The imaginary agent will be VERY popular if able to provide extension to original non O-A.

If just obtaining extension based on previous non o . Then nothing new.

Edited February 2, 2020 by DrJack54

[flexomike]

9 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

Just done it. No 800k or 400k either.

But are you on an OA extension

[DrJack54]

Just now, flexomike said:

But are you on an OA extension

No he is not. Confused puppy.

Sounds like paid agent to obtain non o and get around money in bank.

That's ok but he has mixed up meaning of thread. Which is about non O-A.

[VBF]

Speaking from a UK-issued travel insurance policy perspective:

 

What I cannot find in this thread is a mention that MOST travel insurance only allows for you to be away from your home country for a maximum time.

For example, mine was 32 days per trip but I paid for an endorsement to increase it to 64 days per trip.

At some point, one hits a "maximum number of allowable days" figure.

 

Travel insurance is NOT the same as long-term Health insurance.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, VBF said:

Speaking from a UK-issued travel insurance policy perspective:

 

What I cannot find in this thread is a mention that MOST travel insurance only allows for you to be away from your home country for a maximum time.

For example, mine was 32 days per trip but I paid for an endorsement to increase it to 64 days per trip.

At some point, one hits a "maximum number of allowable days" figure.

 

Travel insurance is NOT the same as long-term Health insurance.

Not being negative, but this thread is about compulsory Thai insurance for extensions to non O-A.

You can look perhaps in another forum for travel insurance etc.

[VBF]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not being negative, but this thread is about compulsory Thai insurance for extensions to non O-A.

You can look perhaps in another forum for travel insurance etc.

Excuse me @DrJack54 but the OP asked

"My question is if you have travel insurance with unlimited hospital cover will that fit the requirement or do you need to also have the Thai health cover that they are offering on some websites?"

 

I was commenting on his original question!

Edited February 2, 2020 by VBF

[Suradit69]

On January 31, 2020 at 8:59 AM, Langsuan Man said:

The subject of mandatory Thai based health insurance has been done to death here a Thai Visa, do a search

 

But quick answer, Yes

He appears to be asking about the O-A vise, not an extension of stay. Not sure how you get Thai based insurance in your home country, which is where you'd get the visa.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

He appears to be asking about the O-A vise, not an extension of stay. Not sure how you get Thai based insurance in your home country, which is where you'd get the visa.

Finally. That is my take on it. I don't get it.

I avoided bun fight earlier. 

Even in this thread someone suggested arrive in Thailand then obtain insurance. 

Good luck with that.

I thought you had to be in Thailand to obtain insurance with Thai insurance company. 

 

[stat]

Has someone successfully used the OA Visa on a reentry and been stamped in for another fresh 12 months with a 2 year certificate from a non Thai health insurance company. In my understanding it is not an extension but a normal usage of the visa.

 

I.e.

Issuance of visa 11/2019 from german embassy with a non Thai Health insurance stating covered until 12/2021 and the official Thai statement of compliance with Thai regulations signed .

 

First entry TH 11/2019 stamped in until 11/20

Out TH 01/2020

Reentry TH 01/20

Stamped in to 01/21

Thanks!

 

If correctly timed one should be able to obtain close to 2 years with one OA Visa without having to buy TH insurance.

Next step then either a new OA Visa from Home country or extension of OA Visa in Thailand with Thai insurance.

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, stat said:

Has someone successfully used the OA Visa on a reentry and been stamped in for another fresh 12 months with a 2 year certificate from a non Thai health insurance company. In my understanding it is not an extension but a normal usage of the visa.

 

I.e.

Issuance of visa 11/2019 from german embassy with a non Thai Health insurance stating covered until 12/2021 and the official Thai statement of compliance with Thai regulations signed .

 

First entry TH 11/2019 stamped in until 11/20

Out TH 01/2020

Reentry TH 01/20

Stamped in to 01/21

Thanks!

 

If correctly timed one should be able to obtain close to 2 years with one OA Visa without having to buy TH insurance.

Next step then either a new OA Visa from Home country or extension of OA Visa in Thailand with Thai insurance.

If your non O-A was issued prior to march 31 then with your subsequent entries to Thailand you do not require insurance.

Your plan would be to exit and re-enter just prior to expiry. That will give you further 12 months. 

[stat]

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

If your non O-A was issued prior to march 31 then with your subsequent entries to Thailand you do not require insurance.

Your plan would be to exit and re-enter just prior to expiry. That will give you further 12 months. 

31 March does not make any sense to me sorry? Pls read my post all dates clearly stated in an example ????

 

First entry (and Visa issued after 31.10.2019) TH 11/2019 stamped in until 11/20

Out TH 01/2020

Reentry TH 01/20

Stamped in to 01/21? Correct or not if Official statement states insured up to 11/2021 according to non thai company?

 

 

Thanks!

Edited February 2, 2020 by stat

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, stat said:

31 March does not make any sense to me sorry?

I think he meant October 31st.

[Peter Denis]

19 hours ago, Tom F said:

As I initially said: "My insurer is specific for retired state government employees."  I'll be more specific.  It is for New York State government retirees only.  It is called the Empire Plan.  If you are not a NYS government retiree, that additional information will be worthless.   The insurance is administered partly through Blue Cross/Blue Shield (Exactly how, I don't know; the insurance business is a truly byzantine affair).  But, I have no direct dealings with BC/BS; only with the Empire Plan.  Which is a smaller operation, and therefore maybe more customer friendly.  They are the ones who signed the form.

 

My overall understanding of BC/BS is pretty limited.  I do know that it is not just one big company.   Rather, it is a federation of 36, or so, separate insurance companies that operate using the BC/BS trademark.  And, the individual companies can do business across state lines.  

 

As I also initially said, maybe my own success comes down to luck. I got a human being on the phone, who was willing to listen and to try something new.  If I were to try buying a BC/BS policy, I might try an independent health insurance agent (or two), and tell the agent(s): I'm interested in this kind of policy, but it only works for me if you can get this form signed.   Maybe the agent's possible commission would be an incentive for them to shop around for you.  If not, well, maybe my own case is just a unicorn.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the explanation, and indeed you are one of the rare lucky ones that got their insurance company to sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate that is now required to apply for an OA long-stay Visa in your home-country.

A question > Did your insurer, mention a 1 year, 2 year or 'indefinite' period for the policy on the Certificate?

The reason I ask is that thai border-immigration will only stamp you in for the period that your insurance (as stated on the Certificate) is valid.  Previously you could squeeze out 2 years of stay before having to apply for an extension of stay based on that OA Visa, because the OA is multi-entry and on each entry during the 1-year validity of the Visa you would be stamped in for a 1-year permission to stay.

But with the new HI-policy requirement, you will be stamped in only for the validity of your insurance (hence it makes sense to have a 2-year or more insurance policy validity on the Certificate).

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, VBF said:

Speaking from a UK-issued travel insurance policy perspective:

 

What I cannot find in this thread is a mention that MOST travel insurance only allows for you to be away from your home country for a maximum time.

For example, mine was 32 days per trip but I paid for an endorsement to increase it to 64 days per trip.

At some point, one hits a "maximum number of allowable days" figure.

 

Travel insurance is NOT the same as long-term Health insurance.

For some long-term Thailand stayers, travel insurance is a better alternative than thai long-term health-insurance.

E.g. in my case, I am fully covered with good quality health-care in my home-country for any health or accident issue at no cost.  But I subscribed to an annual travel-insurance policy in my home-country which has me covered for 6 months per trip (after that I need to stay at least 2 weeks in my home-country before my next trip is covered again for 6 months).  That suits me fine as I go at least once a year to my home-country (and for the uncovered time after 6 months I use on-the-fly travel-insurance).

My travel-insurance provides unlimited coverage of all accident and illness issues, as well as cost-free repatriation when required, so that's a far better deal for me than subscribing to thai health-insurance.

Note: Obviously that solution does not meet the thai-approved health-insurance requirement for my Non Imm OA Visa, so on expiry of my present permission to stay I will switch to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, stat said:

Has someone successfully used the OA Visa on a reentry and been stamped in for another fresh 12 months with a 2 year certificate from a non Thai health insurance company. In my understanding it is not an extension but a normal usage of the visa.

 

I.e.

Issuance of visa 11/2019 from german embassy with a non Thai Health insurance stating covered until 12/2021 and the official Thai statement of compliance with Thai regulations signed .

 

First entry TH 11/2019 stamped in until 11/20

Out TH 01/2020

Reentry TH 01/20

Stamped in to 01/21

Thanks!

 

If correctly timed one should be able to obtain close to 2 years with one OA Visa without having to buy TH insurance.

Next step then either a new OA Visa from Home country or extension of OA Visa in Thailand with Thai insurance.

Yes, I would also be very interested to hear about experience with a +2 year foreign health-insurance policy when applying for a Non Imm OA Visa in your home-country.

Normally that should provide you with the almost 2 year benefits from the OA Visa, and you could exit Thailand before your extension of stay was due at the end end of the 2nd year, and then re-apply for the OA in your home-country.

Provided that you do not run into trouble with thai border-immigration interpretation of the health-insurance policy validity, that would be a very attractive option to enjoy the OA Visa benefits without having to succumb to the thai health-insurance scam.

 

[BobBunce]

16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Done what? An extension to a non O-A without insurance using an agent ??

This thread is about insurance requirement for certain extensions.

Thinking you need clarify.

The imaginary agent will be VERY popular if able to provide extension to original non O-A.

If just obtaining extension based on previous non o . Then nothing new.

I now know why you have not heard about an agent that can do this for you.. The mods here just removed a post I posted last night. SO it would appear they are possibly pushing the ThaiVisa health insurance policies over the agent solutions. Who knows.

If you don't believe me look at my post count, and view my post history.

Edited February 3, 2020 by BobBunce

[Peter Denis]

Posted yesterday at 01:27 AM

On 2/1/2020 at 5:44 PM, UKresonant said:

f you are a new applicant, the Thai insurance companys T&Cs require you to have been in Thailand more than 6 months out of 12 months.

On 2/2/2020 at 1:27 AM, ubonjoe said:

I don't think that would apply to the insurance when applying for a OA visa and getting it from one of the authorized insurance companies.

A lot of people has said that but I have not seen a link to where it is shown.

Hi @ubonjoe

I came across the following website > https://www.thaivisaprotect.com/about.html

This ThaiVisa Protect is powered by Pacific Cross Health Insurance PCL and is a collaboration with the ThaiVisa Forum.

For each of the 4 Health-Insurance packages (Bronze - Silver - Gold - Platinum) they offer, you can access/download the brochure, and in bullet 2 of the REMARKS (last chapter) of the brochure it states:

> The applicant must be Thai resident or reside in Thailand at least 6 months in 12 months period

Obviously that makes it close to impossible to meet that requirement when applying first time from your home-country for a Non Imm OA Visa. 

And would be interesting to know when subscribing to one of their packages, what are the consequences when having an accident/illness that requires treatment and you did not meet that requirement.

[Tracy79]

This forum is very informative about insurance and I really like it.

 

[Tom F]

11 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the explanation, and indeed you are one of the rare lucky ones that got their insurance company to sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate that is now required to apply for an OA long-stay Visa in your home-country.

A question > Did your insurer, mention a 1 year, 2 year or 'indefinite' period for the policy on the Certificate?

The reason I ask is that thai border-immigration will only stamp you in for the period that your insurance (as stated on the Certificate) is valid.  Previously you could squeeze out 2 years of stay before having to apply for an extension of stay based on that OA Visa, because the OA is multi-entry and on each entry during the 1-year validity of the Visa you would be stamped in for a 1-year permission to stay.

But with the new HI-policy requirement, you will be stamped in only for the validity of your insurance (hence it makes sense to have a 2-year or more insurance policy validity on the Certificate).

Well, I re-entered January 17 on a pre-October 31 OA.  So, I didn't really need the medical certificate this time around.  Although, the desk IO initially said I did; I said no; the IO called a supervisor; who agreed with me.   I had the insurance certificate in my pocket, just in case.  I got stamped in until Jan. 15, 2021.  Essentially, the old OA rules.

 

That doesn't answer your question, though.   My insurer was pretty much willing to fill it any way that I asked for.  I don't have an annual policy; it just continues, indefinitely.   I asked for Jan. 1,  2020 to Jan. 1, 2021.   Because that's all I needed, this time around.  And, they did it. I considered asking for them to write in "indefinite." of something similar.  I decided against it.   I figured that an IO might not understand the term, and that that might cause problems.   For me, at this point,  I am confident that I can get another certificate, with additional time, when I need one.   I have very little confidence in an IO interpreting a word like "indefinite."  A one year policy, should be easier to understand.  

[Langsuan Man]

10 hours ago, Tom F said:

My insurer was pretty much willing to fill it any way that I asked for.

Any chance you could post the certificate your US insurance company signed for you ? Of course with identyfying information blacked out 

 

I sure would like something to show my US insurance company that other US insurers are assisting customers in complying with Thai requirements  

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, Tom F said:

Well, I re-entered January 17 on a pre-October 31 OA.  So, I didn't really need the medical certificate this time around.  Although, the desk IO initially said I did; I said no; the IO called a supervisor; who agreed with me.   I had the insurance certificate in my pocket, just in case.  I got stamped in until Jan. 15, 2021.  Essentially, the old OA rules.

 

That doesn't answer your question, though.   My insurer was pretty much willing to fill it any way that I asked for.  I don't have an annual policy; it just continues, indefinitely.   I asked for Jan. 1,  2020 to Jan. 1, 2021.   Because that's all I needed, this time around.  And, they did it. I considered asking for them to write in "indefinite." of something similar.  I decided against it.   I figured that an IO might not understand the term, and that that might cause problems.   For me, at this point,  I am confident that I can get another certificate, with additional time, when I need one.   I have very little confidence in an IO interpreting a word like "indefinite."  A one year policy, should be easier to understand.  

HI Tom,

Thanks for response, and good for you that your US insurer was/is willing to provide you with the signed Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that your policy meets the thai IO health-insurance requirements.

Some comments:

a) You are probably well aware that you can ONLY use that Foreign Insurance Certificate when applying again for a Non Imm OA Visa in your home-country.  It will NOT be accepted when applying for an extension of stay of your present OA Visa at your local thai IO.

b) When applying again for a Non Imm OA Visa in your home-country, the US thai Embassy where you apply needs to add a note when issuing the Visa that contains the DATE your compliant foreign insurance expires.

When entering Thailand, border immigration officials are instructed according to the PoliceOrder addressing the health-insurance requirement 'to check any remarks on a Visa issued by an overseas Royal Thai Embassy'.

Note: It would of course still be useful to carry a copy of the Foreign Insurance Certificate with you on (re)-entering Thailand, even with the note in your passport.

c) To make full use of the possible 2 years an OA Visa can provide you, it would be smart to request your insurer to mention 2 years as policy expiry date, so that the US thai Embassy can also mention a 2 year period in the Note they add to your Visa. 

Note: I do agree that you should avoid the use of the term 'indefinite' or any other english idiom which might not be understood by thai border-immigration officials. 

[Jim P]

You do realise that travel and health insurance are two completely different things, travel insurance will not satisfy the requirement.

Posted Friday at 08:40 AM

While looking at the requirements for Non-immigrant Visa O-A Retirement, I notice that you have to have health insurance for the 12 month period of the visa with 400000 Baht for in-patient and 40000 Baht for out-patient.

 

My question is if you have travel insurance with unlimited hospital cover will that fit the requirement or do you need to also have the Thai health cover that they are offering on some websites?

 

Cheers

Richard

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, Jim P said:

You do realise that travel and health insurance are two completely different things, travel insurance will not satisfy the requirement.

Posted Friday at 08:40 AM

While looking at the requirements for Non-immigrant Visa O-A Retirement, I notice that you have to have health insurance for the 12 month period of the visa with 400000 Baht for in-patient and 40000 Baht for out-patient.

 

My question is if you have travel insurance with unlimited hospital cover will that fit the requirement or do you need to also have the Thai health cover that they are offering on some websites?

Some months ago 2 separate TVF members made a post that they succeeded in getting the required Foreign Insurance Certificate signed by their insurance company for the annual travel insurance they had with the insurer.

Please note that that Foreign Insurance Certificate is ONLY of use when applying for the Non Imm OA Visa in your home-country, because IO requires a thai health-insurance policy when applying for an extension of stay based on your original OA Visa.

Note: Both of these members did not use that signed Certificate to apply for the Non Imm OA Visa as theirs was already issued before Oct 31. but they did take it with them as 'back-up' in case they would be queried by border-immigration on (re)-entry during the chaotic early November period when the health-insurance requirement became into effect and pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa holders without health-insurance were - incorrectly - denied entrance.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Peter Denis

[thomago]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:40 PM, Tom F said:

I got it signed.   In early January.  Maybe I just got lucky.   My insurer is specific for retired state government employees.   The insurer touts itself for providing overseas coverage for retirees.   And, it competes with other insurance options for retirees.  It took some polite persistence, and explaining, to get it done.   On the phone, the first level contact said it was impossible.   I got kicked up to the next level, who said "sure,"  and went out of her way to help.   All done within a week, by phone and emails.

 

Ultimately, this time around I didn't need it for my January re-entry on my pre-Oct. 31 OA.   But, I'm sure that I can get another one for when I go to the consulate for my next OA.  I'm confident that the form will pass muster at the consulate.

 

Any lesson based on this experience?  Luck does matter.  You might better your odds by letting your insurer know that you're shopping around for a company that will sign the form.

I had the same pleasant experience with Allianz Worldwide Care, Irish Branch where I have in-patient coverage (worldwide excluding USA) worth GBP 934,000 since 2005. The premium for 2020 is GBP 4,310.

 

Excellent service: They send me the completed Foreign Insurance Certificate (signed and stamped) as well as a Confirmation of Cover within 4 days via e-mail -- arriving today -- and the originals will be sent by mail as I had requested. However, they could not confirm any out-patient coverage on the Foreign Insurance Certificate since I don't have any.

 

Since 2005 -- when I retired in Phuket with a "Non Imm OA" visa plus subsequent annual extensions of stay -- I paid all out-patient bills myself (e. g. annual health checks) and did not have an out-patient insurance. Due to the new requirements I will now need insurance with out-patient coverage of at least 40,000 Baht (about GBP 1,000).

 

My next extension of stay will be on April 18 so I still have enough time to figure out what to do. 

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, thomago said:

I had the same pleasant experience with Allianz Worldwide Care, Irish Branch where I have in-patient coverage (worldwide excluding USA) worth GBP 934,000 since 2005. The premium for 2020 is GBP 4,310.

 

Excellent service: They send me the completed Foreign Insurance Certificate (si,gned and stamped) as well as a Confirmation of Cover within 4 days via e-mail -- arriving today -- and the originals will be sent by mail as I had requested. However, they could not confirm any out-patient coverage on the Foreign Insurance Certificate since I don't have any.

 

Since 2005 -- when I retired in Phuket with a "Non Imm OA" visa plus subsequent annual extensions of stay -- I paid all out-patient bills myself (e. g. annual health checks) and did not have an out-patient insurance. Due to the new requirements I will now need insurance with out-patient coverage of at least 40,000 Baht (about GBP 1,000).

 

My next extension of stay will be on April 18 so I still have enough time to figure out what to do. 

What to do? > Easy answer.

Convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa which does NOT require the bogus thai-approved health-insurance scam, and its requirements/conditions when applying for an extension based on that O Visa are EXACTLY the same as for your present OA Visa.  Problem solved.

I PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap with details/options on how to do it.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum.

[thomago]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

What to do? > Easy answer.

Convert to a Non Imm O - retirement Visa which does NOT require the bogus thai-approved health-insurance scam, and its requirements/conditions when applying for an extension based on that O Visa are EXACTLY the same as for your present OA Visa.  Problem solved.

I PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap with details/options on how to do it.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum.

Thanks Peter, I have been considering changing to a Non Imm O retirement visa and might still do so.

My concern is that the current insurance requirements for the "Non Imm OA" extension of stay will also apply to all "Non Imm O" extensions in due time. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens within the next 2 years.

If my current in-patient insurance gets accepted by immigration and I only would have to pay a minor amount for the additional minimum 40,000 Baht out-patient coverage, then I would prefer going that way for the time being and just wait-and-see.

I will visit Phuket Immigration next week to get more clarity.

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, thomago said:

Thanks Peter, I have been considering changing to a Non Imm O retirement visa and might still do so.

My concern is that the current insurance requirements for the "Non Imm OA" extension of stay will also apply to all "Non Imm O" extensions in due time. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens within the next 2 years.

If my current in-patient insurance gets accepted by immigration and I only would have to pay a minor amount for the additional minimum 40,000 Baht out-patient coverage, then I would prefer going that way for the time being and just wait-and-see.

I will visit Phuket Immigration next week to get more clarity.

Hi Thomago, your foreign insurance (even if it would meet the 400K in-patient / 40K out-patient requirement) will NOT be accepted by IO as they insist on THAI health-insurance (approved by TGIA). 

But keep us posted on the outcome of your visit to Phuket IO.

[Tracy79]

Hello everyone and thank you gays for sharing really informative posts.

[zaZa9]

On 2/2/2020 at 8:33 PM, DrJack54 said:

No he is not. Confused puppy.

Sounds like paid agent to obtain non o and get around money in bank.

That's ok but he has mixed up meaning of thread. Which is about non O-A.

Wow , talk about an overbearing know-it-all.

I am well aware what the subject of the thread is.

How would you possibly know what my circumstances are ?

 

For other more open minded TV readers ;

This was my 11th Retirement Extension based on an original  Non Immigrant O-A , issued in my own country .

I have employed an agent to take care of all the required contingencies - ALL of them.

And my new Extension is in my passport.

 

Im of the view that using western belief systems to attempt to find 'reason' in Thai ways is pretty much futile .

There is but one train to follow.

Pay money , and what you want will come.

If trouble comes along with that , pay money and trouble will go away.

 

Still , theres hours of entertainment in reading all the useless  deductions and incorrect conclusions  certain self appointed whiz kids spout on and on about  here on TV.

Ubon Joe talks about what is written , he deals with facts.

Others speculate and use phrases like 'sounds like'... 

[DrJack54]

29 minutes ago, zaZa9 said:

Wow , talk about an overbearing know-it-all.

I am well aware what the subject of the thread is.

How would you possibly know what my circumstances are ?

 

For other more open minded TV readers ;

This was my 11th Retirement Extension based on an original  Non Immigrant O-A , issued in my own country .

I have employed an agent to take care of all the required contingencies - ALL of them.

And my new Extension is in my passport.

 

Im of the view that using western belief systems to attempt to find 'reason' in Thai ways is pretty much futile .

There is but one train to follow.

Pay money , and what you want will come.

If trouble comes along with that , pay money and trouble will go away.

 

Still , theres hours of entertainment in reading all the useless  deductions and incorrect conclusions  certain self appointed whiz kids spout on and on about  here on TV.

Ubon Joe talks about what is written , he deals with facts.

Others speculate and use phrases like 'sounds like'... 

What's name of your agent that obtained you most recent, meaning very recent extension without need for rather new insurance requirement. 

He will get a lot of business. Also cost for service to get around insurance appreciated.