Sovereignty comes first: Britain lays out tough stance for EU trade talks

[englishoak]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

The consequences of a no-deal Brexit:

The EU’s average tariff rate is 3%, but tariffs would be much higher for certain products. Some examples:

Food: The EU’s average most-favored nation tariff rates are 11.1% for agricultural goods, 15.7% for animal products and 35.4% for dairy.

Automobiles: British carmakers would face a 10% tariff on all auto exports to the EU. Those levies could exceed 5.7 billion euros ($6.3 billion) per year and increase the average price of a British car sold in the EU.

Prices would increase for certain European imports, including food, cars and textiles. The U.K. has proposed to replicate the EU’s tariff commitments and quotas at the WTO. That means U.K. tariff rates on imports of certain European goods would increase from their current rate of zero. They include:

 Cars: A 10% tariff.

Cod and Haddock: A 12% tariff.

Suits, clothing and other apparel: A 12% tariff.

Britain would also impose tariffs and import quotas on beef, lamb, fish, poultry and swine.

A point worth mentioning that may well restrict our ability to strike trade deals outside the EU is we  may lose continuity of trade relations with many of the 72 nations that have forged preferential trade agreements with the EU, including Canada, Japan and Turkey.

WTO tariffs would likely apply to British goods and services exported to nations where the U.K. fails to roll over EU agreements. For example:

Japan may introduce a 12% tariff on British tea and a 19% levy on malt.

Canada may impose a 6.1% tariff on British cars and a 25% charge on dredging vessels.

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the U.K.’s tax-collecting agency, estimated that British businesses would spend 15 billion pounds ($19.6 billion) extra per year on paperwork in the event of a “no deal” Brexit.

U.K. service industries such as finance, law and accounting could lose preferred access to the European single market, which provides freedom of establishment (the right to set up a business or work as a self-employed person) and free movement of people within the EU trading bloc. That points to more red tape and headaches for Britain’s services providers, who collectively make up 79% of the U.K. economy and 45% of exports.

Cross-border services companies would need to hire lawyers and accountants to help them navigate a complex constellation of European regulatory, legal and administrative hurdles.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but I dont agree with 90% of your claims,  This is just the usual project fear and i fully expect if I wished i could list all the revenue lost and tariffs the EU would incur still far more than would the UK, Japan is already in talks, do you really think when they are keen to continue making their cars here  there would be tariffs on tea or malt ? ridiculous, just a list of project fear listing a very worst and possible case scenario you clearly pulled that off a webite so how about you link it...

 

Where is your list on the EU costs ? oh thats right there isnt one.. give me a break. 

 

No deal is just fine with me as said before, there is no argument to win here im simply not interested in wild projections based on worst case scenarios. I already said im not sure what the costs may be on both sides or what kind of deals will be made so im certainly not going to listen to fear mongers that can only look at it with assumptions and one side and not even bother listing the other... 

Edited February 4, 2020 by englishoak

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

Cod and Haddock: A 12% tariff.

I did a bit of digging, and only around 15% of UK cod and haddock is imported from EU countries. So that 12% tariff is hardly going to have an impact. 

 

2 hours ago, bannork said:

A point worth mentioning that may well restrict our ability to strike trade deals outside the EU is we  may lose continuity of trade relations with many of the 72 nations that have forged preferential trade agreements with the EU, including Canada, Japan and Turkey.

WTO tariffs would likely apply to British goods and services exported to nations where the U.K. fails to roll over EU agreements.

The UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals the EU had struck with more than 70 countries. So far, the UK has managed to roll over 20 "continuity" deals, covering 50 countries or territories. 

In monetary terms, the UK has so far rolled over about three-quarters of the EU's trade deals, based on the 2018 trade figures. 

And we've only just started! 

 

I don't have time to research all of your fear mongering claims, but this will do for starters. 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by CG1 Blue

[englishoak]

40 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I did a bit of digging, and only around 15% of UK cod and haddock is imported from EU countries. So that 12% tariff is hardly going to have an impact. 

 

 

 

 

Assuming we dont take back our fishing waters and catch x10 what we need or do now which is very much likely and if not totally we will be increasing it tenfold at least on current EU quotas allotted, or that we can get half the stuff cheaper from another nation even with transport we wernt allowed to before.this is exactly what im talking about, a load of tosh without any adjustments. Numbers and especially % without any context dosnt mean much . could be 99% of a deal etc worth £10 for all i know.  They just dont provide full facts checkable amounts and revenue costs etc nor provide links to articles or appropriate verifiable data, just wild claims and % designed to scare... well we are already out so we shall find out if the sky falls in or theres no medicines or all the other crock peddled in the last 3.6 years, i suspect it will be a nothing burger and things will be much the same for the average family... fear porn some still try to ram down peoples throats has got pretty boring tbh, i just mostly ignore the sad wonkers these days and leave them to it. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by englishoak

[Opl]

All fishermen - British and Europeans- fear to be sacrificed for the benefit of key Financial sector

Edited February 4, 2020 by Opl

[englishoak]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

All fishermen - British and Europeans- fear to be sacrificed for the benefit of key Financial sector

 

Except its OUR waters by law again so there is that. 

[Opl]

34 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Except its OUR waters by law again so there is that. 

I'm not disputing this point, equal access ( under quotas conditions) was seen as a betrayal because the fishing industry was sacrificed for other national political and economic purposes While fishing accounts for less than 0.1% of UK GDP, the issue weighed in favor of leaving the EU in the 2016 referendum.

Johnson's speech suggests a solution to European apprehensions about fishing. By becoming a third state, the UK takes back control of its exclusive economic zone, to the detriment of European fishermen. The UK will be an independent coastal state at the end of 2020, controlling its own waters". This agreement should be renegotiated annually with Europe; in exchange of an agreement on British aviation's access to the single European sky.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Opl

[teatree]

On 2/3/2020 at 12:48 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK has released the bird in its hand, there is no guarantee that the UK will catch a bird in the bush.

 

What Brexiteers have won is yet to be seen, they many promises to deliver on.

What Brexiteers have won is sovereignty.  

 

This is something many Remainers just do not get - it isn't, never was and never will be, purely about economics.

[bannork]

[englishoak]

A 5 year old quote does not mean a thing Times change, the UK is already OUT and Boris is now PM not a minister following party orders..

[samran]

10 hours ago, englishoak said:

Your joking  I hope, until we joined the EU the UK was Australia's biggest trading partner. so much for closer to home.  You also fail to mention that EU trade is around 500B and that would also take a hit, not in the least those nations like Germany and France etc  hit the hardest.

 

Its a two way street as you well know, both sides would be hit, So what does that prove ? absolutely nothing tbh, free trade deal or take a hit, who needs the break most ? not sure tbh but the Uk is far more flexible and able to make adjustments than the Eu can and its not a small economy.... free trade deal is still best for all so the EU would be better off dropping imo its stupid and out of date demands. If its going to be stubborn and cut its nose off then so be it, we have already left and will adjust quickly enough. Eu not so much. Bring it !

You miss the point that relationship between Australia and the UK was the legacy of imperial trading preferences which while beneficial, were inefficient for both parties and too narrowly defined around a few primary industries. 
 

Since the ending of that set up, Australia now faces Asia and the pacific and our preferential trading relationships reflect that with FTAs with ASEAN, China the US and not to mention the TPP or what ever it is called now. None of them however are seamless as the EU, which however you look at it, is a gold standard in trading set ups. 

 

Our national income in real terms is higher than can have ever been imagined and our economy is more diverse and competitive as ever as a result of focusing on our region, instead of pretending to be a distant English outpost in the South Pacific. 
 

I know the Rule Britannia mob day dream of a time when the UK was the hub of a grand imperial trading network. Those days are long gone. You trade with your neighbours first and foremost. 

[samran]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I did a bit of digging, and only around 15% of UK cod and haddock is imported from EU countries. So that 12% tariff is hardly going to have an impact. 

 

The UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals the EU had struck with more than 70 countries. So far, the UK has managed to roll over 20 "continuity" deals, covering 50 countries or territories. 

In monetary terms, the UK has so far rolled over about three-quarters of the EU's trade deals, based on the 2018 trade figures. 

And we've only just started! 

 

I don't have time to research all of your fear mongering claims, but this will do for starters. 

 

Those rollovers are temporary and will be renegotiated soon enough once the trading partners allow the dust to settle and figure out how they can maximise their advantage. 

[englishoak]

43 minutes ago, samran said:

You miss the point that relationship between Australia and the UK was the legacy of imperial trading preferences which while beneficial, were inefficient for both parties and too narrowly defined around a few primary industries. 
 

Since the ending of that set up, Australia now faces Asia and the pacific and our preferential trading relationships reflect that with FTAs with ASEAN, China the US and not to mention the TPP or what ever it is called now. None of them however are seamless as the EU, which however you look at it, is a gold standard in trading set ups. 

 

Our national income in real terms is higher than can have ever been imagined and our economy is more diverse and competitive as ever as a result of focusing on our region, instead of pretending to be a distant English outpost in the South Pacific. 
 

I know the Rule Britannia mob day dream of a time when the UK was the hub of a grand imperial trading network. Those days are long gone. You trade with your neighbours first and foremost. 

 

You made no point at all.  We are a service based economy not trade, thats global and not local dependent. You think the EU is a gold standard and we disagree, It does have a huge PR dept and regulation body though and of course self promotes as is expected. Your probably stupid enough to believe it given the rest of your post. 

 

What you say about trade and local is sometimes true but far from the norm and depends on the product. Asia in fact does not trade mostly with its neighbours but the west, same goes for nations in Africa are not trading mainly with their neighbours. Same the Middle East trades mostly oil but NOT with its neighbours.  If it wernt for China Australia would be nowhere and is almost dependent on it to sell its industrial resources, when China slows down so does Australia but its not local or a neighbour In turn  if it wernt for western investment in China and western demand not local China would be nowhere either... no one can ever imagine the future. but your claims that local trade by default comes first and foremost is simply untrue. 

 

The rest of your post is just drivel with attempted baiting and insults. Its amazing how many here are genuinely jealous of the UKs history and success, Yours owes its very existence to our empire and vison son ergo your lifestyle today, let that sink in ????  your welcome. 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by englishoak

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, englishoak said:

What you say about trade and local is sometimes true but far from the norm and depends on the product. Asia in fact does not trade mostly with its neighbours but the west, same goes for nations in Africa are not trading mainly with their neighbours. Same the Middle East trades mostly oil but NOT with its neighbours. 

I totally agree with you and would add shipping costs are a significant factor in trade.

It costs far more to ship items from Germany to the UK, than to ship from China to the UK.

So it's more sensible to trade with China than Germany.

We always used to buy beef from Argentina, and lamb from New Zealand because they offered the best prices.

The only local deal was Danish bacon.

Edited February 5, 2020 by BritManToo

[samran]

33 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

You made no point at all.  We are a service based economy not trade, thats global and not local dependent. You think the EU is a gold standard and we disagree, It does have a huge PR dept and regulation body though and of course self promotes as is expected. Your probably stupid enough to believe it given the rest of your post. 

 

What you say about trade and local is sometimes true but far from the norm and depends on the product. Asia in fact does not trade mostly with its neighbours but the west, same goes for nations in Africa are not trading mainly with their neighbours. Same the Middle East trades mostly oil but NOT with its neighbours.  If it wernt for China Australia would be nowhere and is almost dependent on it to sell its industrial resources, when China slows down so does Australia but its not local or a neighbour In turn  if it wernt for western investment in China and western demand not local China would be nowhere either... no one can ever imagine the future. but your claims that local trade by default comes first and foremost is simply untrue. 

 

The rest of your post is just drivel with attempted baiting and insults. Its amazing how many here are genuinely jealous of the UKs history and success, Yours owes its very existence to our empire and vison son ergo your lifestyle today, let that sink in ????  your welcome. 

 

Its funny when you post with a brexiter, any disagreement is seen as some slight to their nationalistic sense of pride. And you manage to roll out a 'stupid' to boot. You must be getting desperate.

 

The fact that Australia and Australians don't imagine themselves as an English outpost may come as a shock to you blokes, but it is what it is, and the mere mention of it seems to have triggered you.

 

Australia owes just as much, if not more, to the Irish, Chinese, Greeks, Italians, Jewish WW2 war refugees, and later the Vietnamese, Lebanese and new wave of migrants from the Pacific and Africa.

 

You can talk trade all you want, and services are a huge part of that component. But most FTA's ignore services totally, which is why I said the EU was a gold standard on that front, anyone is free to ply their trade anywhere. 

 

It isn't the case with trading in Asia - all sorts of services from engineering, legal advice, banking, financial advice - you name it, are all highly protected and restricted.

 

If intra regional trade wasn't important, as you state, then there would be no reason for ASEAN to have their own FTA, the web of Japanese, Chinese and Australia/NZ FTA's with ASEAN. There would be no need for the Asia Pacific to have APEC, Australia and NZ to have the CER, the South Americans to have MERCASOUR, the Gulf States to have the GCC, or the US, Canada and Mexico to have NAFTA. 

 

So maybe you can show me some stats on that while you get over the realisation that the rest of the world doesn't live in past like you do.

Edited February 5, 2020 by samran

[englishoak]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I totally agree with you and would add shipping costs are a significant factor in trade.

It costs far more to ship items from Germany to the UK, than to ship from China to the UK.

So it's more sensible to trade with China than Germany.

 

Most of the world does the same, it always depends on the end cost and profit not simply next door. 

[englishoak]

1 minute ago, samran said:

while you get over the realisation that the rest of the world doesn't live in past like you do.

I dont, im very much looking to the future, thats why we left the EU, your the one who likes to insult,you really arnt happy when you get some of your medicine back are  you ?   Tough luck pal I give as good as I get,

 

The UK is your nations origins and vision, no one else set it up, managed and grew it but you keep kidding yourself however you want, good old whitey blighty empire building and exploration is your good luck lad .Your welcome to your life and success afforded you today by that past .. Britain is the sole reason its there today and dosnt matter what you want to pretend  it wont change Australias origins and past nor its motherland.

 

A piece of free advice, if your going to throw stones around with me best not stand in a glass house and crow while doing it.  

[evadgib]

@samran

Your constant references to ???????????????????????????? this and ???????????????????????????? that merely highlights your ???????? heritage. Whether you like it or not your current abode (????????) has a ???????? in the corner as it was ???????? that founded the place & not just the ????????????????????????????.

 

Boris made a good point the other day when he pointed out that Lamb produced in ???????????????????????????? is closer to ???????? than Lamb produced in your nearest neighbour,  ????????.

 

I trust further clarification won't be necessary...????

Edited February 5, 2020 by evadgib

[samran]

7 minutes ago, englishoak said:

I dont, im very much looking to the future, thats why we left the EU, your the one who likes to insult,you really arnt happy when you get some of your medicine back are  you ?   Tough luck pal I give as good as I get,

 

The UK is your nations origins and vision, no one else set it up, managed and grew it but you keep kidding yourself however you want, good old whitey blighty empire building and exploration is your good luck lad .Your welcome to your life and success afforded you today by that past .. Britain is the sole reason its there today and dosnt matter what you want to pretend  it wont change Australias origins and past nor its motherland.

 

A piece of free advice, if your going to throw stones around with me best not stand in a glass house and crow while doing it.  

I see what you are doing there...trying to get my back up on nationalist pride. Ah, good one. 
 

Here’s a hint though, none of that stuff particularly bothers me. I’m not a chest thumper and one of the things I love about Australia is what we don’t take our nationalism too seriously. We want to beat you at cricket, but we don’t really want to be you....

 

As for the rest of what you wrote....maybe find a full stop here and there and it might make a bit more sense. Either that or maybe not hit the sauce so hard this time of the morning (a piece of free advice from me to you)...

 

 

[samran]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

@samran

Your constant references to ???????????????????????????? this and ???????????????????????????? that merely highlights your ???????? heritage. Whether you like it or not your current abode (????????) has a ???????? in the corner as it was ???????? that founded the place & not just the ????????????????????????????.

 

Boris made a good point the other day when he pointed out that Lamb produced in ???????????????????????????? is closer to ???????? than Lamb produced in your nearest neighbour,  ????????.

 

I trust further clarification won't be necessary...????

Clear as mud... but your emoji skills are exceptional! 555

[bannork]

33 minutes ago, englishoak said:

 

Most of the world does the same, it always depends on the end cost and profit not simply next door. 

A lot of ' just in time ' industries depend on proximity.

[ThaiBunny]

7 minutes ago, bannork said:

A lot of ' just in time ' industries depend on proximity.

They also rely on open borders, as lots of companies that depend on Chinese supply chains (including Apple) are now finding out

Edited February 5, 2020 by ThaiBunny

[englishoak]

1 minute ago, samran said:

maybe find a full stop here and there and it might make a bit more sense. Either that or maybe not hit the sauce so hard this time of the morning (a piece of free advice from me to you)...

 

Oooo grammar nazi too huh ?  when one starts pointing out grammar mistakes they have definitely got to the bottom of the insults tank,its time to end the convo. Youd know if I were "on the sauce"

Im never that serious about national pride myself. Ive actually got very close family in Oz the USA and NZ so im used to this kind of banter and never take it serious either.. Im just not prepared to put up with mine which does have a great past being attacked because its fashionable to do and people think they can get away with it without retort because they think it makes them look cool. I think it also has a fantastic future and im sure we do. I do notice hardly anyone wishes us the very best, that annoys me as it shows terrible manners and breeding imo. lifes too short to get upset over words.

 

But you right, it is time for bed and late here and i get lazy typing when messing about and tired, so ill take that advice and get some sleep ttfn 

 

 

[Opl]

49 minutes ago, samran said:

Clear as mud... but your emoji skills are exceptional! 555

UK exports sheepmeat to China because Boris said UK is closer to China than Australia is.  

The EU imports more sheepmeat from Australia and New Zealand ( A-EU FTA négociations in progress to develop the lucrative EU market ) since UK left the EU.   

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Opl

[evadgib]

38 minutes ago, samran said:

Clear as mud... but your emoji skills are exceptional! 555

That video's a cracker! ????

Edited February 5, 2020 by evadgib

[Moo 2]

"Sovereignty comes first" this slogan should come from Scotland, Ireland and Wales,

their are the 3 countries taken by force by the English, how hypocrite is that!?

Why the Maire of London a foreigner? 

Boris will have a handful dealing with the 48% who voted to stay in the EU, as for the 52%

have voted on LIES alone and have created a terrible mess.

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That video's a cracker! ????

What it didn't tell you is that half of the Australians are anti immigration, you wouldn't have thought it looking at his video.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

@samran

Your constant references to ???????????????????????????? this and ???????????????????????????? that merely highlights your ???????? heritage. Whether you like it or not your current abode (????????) has a ???????? in the corner as it was ???????? that founded the place & not just the ????????????????????????????.

 

Boris made a good point the other day when he pointed out that Lamb produced in ???????????????????????????? is closer to ???????? than Lamb produced in your nearest neighbour,  ????????.

 

I trust further clarification won't be necessary...????

Did tha learn semaphore in t'Scouts?

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, Opl said:

All fishermen - British and Europeans- fear to be sacrificed for the benefit of key Financial sector

But make sure to save the whales!

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, samran said:

You miss the point that relationship between Australia and the UK was the legacy of imperial trading preferences which while beneficial, were inefficient for both parties and too narrowly defined around a few primary industries. 
 

Since the ending of that set up, Australia now faces Asia and the pacific and our preferential trading relationships reflect that with FTAs with ASEAN, China the US and not to mention the TPP or what ever it is called now. None of them however are seamless as the EU, which however you look at it, is a gold standard in trading set ups. 

 

Our national income in real terms is higher than can have ever been imagined and our economy is more diverse and competitive as ever as a result of focusing on our region, instead of pretending to be a distant English outpost in the South Pacific. 
 

I know the Rule Britannia mob day dream of a time when the UK was the hub of a grand imperial trading network. Those days are long gone. You trade with your neighbours first and foremost. 

Ahem:

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/australias-economic-growth-to-fall-to-decadelow/news-story/9bf7b8ceeaae415eb5a5377688e04745

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I totally agree with you and would add shipping costs are a significant factor in trade.

It costs far more to ship items from Germany to the UK, than to ship from China to the UK.

So it's more sensible to trade with China than Germany.

We always used to buy beef from Argentina, and lamb from New Zealand because they offered the best prices.

The only local deal was Danish bacon.

Not Spam:)

 

IK the sound sux.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by nauseus