Disappointments

[qwertz]

I read many posts here from people who have found a good relationship in LOS and I've seen some too on my visits there. However, I've spoken to many farangs and Thai women who are on the rebound, bitter, hurt and cynical because they've been betrayed, let down or (in their words) conned. Most probably don't post for fear of being laughed at and I suspect, having heard most of these stories in bars, they speak more freely after a few drinks. Is this one of the attendant risks of investing in a romance in LOS? I can't speak from personal experience as I've never had this problem there.

[canuckamuck]

No this is the risk of trying to meet quality people in a foreign bar. Not impossible, just unlikely. You have to sort out the manipulators, the deluded, the insecure, the unstable, the freaks, the alcoholics, the cheaters, and the crooks. And you have to do this with a great big language barrier in the way. It’s difficult enough in your own country; here it must be like winning a lottery.

[qwertz]

No this is the risk of trying to meet quality people in a foreign bar. Not impossible, just unlikely. You have to sort out the manipulators, the deluded, the insecure, the unstable, the freaks, the alcoholics, the cheaters, and the crooks. And you have to do this with a great big language barrier in the way. It's difficult enough in your own country; here it must be like winning a lottery.

Right. They're probably not the best places for picking up recommendations. Is the bar life responsible for their judgement? I meet a lot of cynical bitter people there, along with the happy contented types who came disappointed and found a measure of happiness there, me being one of the latter. I just wonder, did they arrive so disillusioned or did it happen in LOS? Most of them claim LOS and their experiences have made them cynical.

[jetjock]

No this is the risk of trying to meet quality people in a foreign bar. Not impossible, just unlikely. You have to sort out the manipulators, the deluded, the insecure, the unstable, the freaks, the alcoholics, the cheaters, and the crooks. And you have to do this with a great big language barrier in the way. It’s difficult enough in your own country; here it must be like winning a lottery.

You hit the nail on the head and I agree totally. My opinion is that bars in any country are usually not a good place to meet nice girls for a long term relationship. Most of my friends that have gotten involved in bars in Thailand wound up with their relationship later going into the drink where it started.

When I was single, I loved going to the bars and having fun with the girls and making new friends but I never gave any consideration to getting into a permanent relationship with any of them. There is no question that there are some girls with good hearts to be found in bars but with the language barrier for most of us, it makes it extremely difficult to sort the good from the bad.

I met my Thai wife who speaks fluent English at a University in Bangkok. I have felt that I won a lottery ever since the day I met her.

Edited April 5, 2007 by jetjock

[canuckamuck]

I imagine you'll find the same crowd in nearly every country. If someone isn't satisfied with what they do, they'll find something to blame it on. LOS is a lot easier place to be than most.

Funny how freedom is often only appreciated by those who can't have it.

[soundman]

No this is the risk of trying to meet quality people in a foreign bar. Not impossible, just unlikely. You have to sort out the manipulators, the deluded, the insecure, the unstable, the freaks, the alcoholics, the cheaters, and the crooks. And you have to do this with a great big language barrier in the way. It's difficult enough in your own country; here it must be like winning a lottery.

This is so true. Take it from one who has worked in bars, clubs, entertainment industry & the like for more than half of his life. I have seen some amazingly strong & beautiful relationships form in the nightlife scene on both sides of the counter. However, all things taken into account, I have seen a great deal more tradgedies. Both in Australia & Thailand. Confidence in ones own descision making abilities is usually the key factor...

To people looking for sweethearts in thailand: don't be put off by the pessamistic hype surrounding bars, clubs etc. But really open your eyes & mind to what is going on around you. Double and tripple check, for gods sake. If you don't understand something, find out, due diligence lads & gals... After all this is asia, it really isn't that rude to make inquiries as to people's past & present circumstances.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[britmaveric]

I know quite a few people who have met gems in bars, so I don't think that has any relevance. Any rate - can meet quality people anywhere, just need to take things slowly.

[jetjock]

I know quite a few people who have met gems in bars, so I don't think that has any relevance. Any rate - can meet quality people anywhere, just need to take things slowly.

I agree with your statement with the very slight exception of the relevance factor. I think the relevance is that reality dictates that going into a bar to find a gem is like betting on a longshot at the races. Although some longshots do win races, the chances of hitting a winner are better if you try to increase your odds by playing the favourites. IMHO there are many better places to go to increase the odds of finding a gem than looking in a bar.

[qwertz]

I know quite a few people who have met gems in bars, so I don't think that has any relevance. Any rate - can meet quality people anywhere, just need to take things slowly.

I agree with your statement with the very slight exception of the relevance factor. I think the relevance is that reality dictates that going into a bar to find a gem is like betting on a longshot at the races. Although some longshots do win races, the chances of hitting a winner are better if you try to increase your odds by playing the favourites. IMHO there are many better places to go to increase the odds of finding a gem than looking in a bar.

Like where? I'm interested in your input on this, since what I hear from the barflies is hardly inspiring. I should stress, I got over my disappointments just by being there so this is not a personal whinge.

Edited April 5, 2007 by qwertz

[onzestan]

Agree with most comments made here.

I always tell friends that come for the first time that they should take a good look in the mirror and try to imagine what a much younger person could possibly like about them.

One at least admitted it was advice that saved him from making a big mistake.

Cheers

onzestan

[buriramboy]

Basically if you are a fat old balding man who manages to find himself an attractive woman 20 years younger than yourself you are going to be in for a disapointment.

WAKE UP, LOOK AT YOUSELF IN THE MIRROR, what is this young attractive woman seeing in you?????

your beer belly???

your receding hairline?????

your sexual prowess???

NO, the only thing you have going for you is your wallet, lose that and game over.

BB

[jetjock]

I know quite a few people who have met gems in bars, so I don't think that has any relevance. Any rate - can meet quality people anywhere, just need to take things slowly.

I agree with your statement with the very slight exception of the relevance factor. I think the relevance is that reality dictates that going into a bar to find a gem is like betting on a longshot at the races. Although some longshots do win races, the chances of hitting a winner are better if you try to increase your odds by playing the favourites. IMHO there are many better places to go to increase the odds of finding a gem than looking in a bar.

Like where? I'm interested in your input on this, since what I hear from the barflies is hardly inspiring. I should stress, I got over my disappointments just by being there so this is not a personal whinge.

You pose an excellent question Qwertz since it definitely is more difficult to meet Thai girls outside of the bar scenario. My experience has taught me that the best way is through networking. I have always like to chat with people that I meet in the malls and stores and through these type of contacts I became good friends with someone at a university in Bangkok. Through my friend I was introduced to other people that were either Professors or studying for their advanced degrees at the University which opened up a whole new world of people with whom I could socialize and eventually meet my wife. After I was married, two good male friends of mine from the US were able to network when they came to Thailand by going out with my wife and I and our circle of friends. Both of my friends are now going with very beautiful and highly educated girls Thai girls they met in our circle of friends that they eventually plan to marry.

I guess in a nutshell, IMHO the best way for anyone to increase you chances of meeting quality girls with good hearts is to chat with a lot of people when out and about in Thailand and hopefully make friends with someone that travels in good circles and then through networking it is easy to meet many other quality people.

[jbsears]

I think it also depends on the environment of the bars. If your talking university bars in the West, you may find your sweetheart. If your talking bars/clubs in Thailand, you probably won't. One difference with Thailand and other countries like it is that it is not culturally acceptable for girls to hang out in bars. Therefore, most of the good girls that are marriage potential you will not find in the bars/clubs in Thailand. In the West where it isn't so taboo for girls to hang out in bars/clubs, you have a better chance to meet that special one. Unless a skanky whore is your type, a Thai beer bar is not a place to meet the future wife.

[t.s]

I read many posts here from people who have found a good relationship in LOS and I've seen some too on my visits there. However, I've spoken to many farangs and Thai women who are on the rebound, bitter, hurt and cynical because they've been betrayed, let down or (in their words) conned. Most probably don't post for fear of being laughed at and I suspect, having heard most of these stories in bars, they speak more freely after a few drinks. Is this one of the attendant risks of investing in a romance in LOS? I can't speak from personal experience as I've never had this problem there.

your slip is showing

[buriramboy]

I think it also depends on the environment of the bars. If your talking university bars in the West, you may find your sweetheart. If your talking bars/clubs in Thailand, you probably won't. One difference with Thailand and other countries like it is that it is not culturally acceptable for girls to hang out in bars. Therefore, most of the good girls that are marriage potential you will not find in the bars/clubs in Thailand. In the West where it isn't so taboo for girls to hang out in bars/clubs, you have a better chance to meet that special one. Unless a skanky whore is your type, a Thai beer bar is not a place to meet the future wife.

[buriramboy]

I think it also depends on the environment of the bars. If your talking university bars in the West, you may find your sweetheart. If your talking bars/clubs in Thailand, you probably won't. One difference with Thailand and other countries like it is that it is not culturally acceptable for girls to hang out in bars. Therefore, most of the good girls that are marriage potential you will not find in the bars/clubs in Thailand. In the West where it isn't so taboo for girls to hang out in bars/clubs, you have a better chance to meet that special one. Unless a skanky whore is your type, a Thai beer bar is not a place to meet the future wife.

what a load of <deleted>, lets talk about the west for a moment, you either meet people through your work environment , you were at college/university with them or you met in a bar/club. Same as in here in Thailand you stay away from Pattaya and the Nana/cowboy/patpong in bangkok, and go to the rest of the entertainment venues in bangkok you will meet a different set of people. Most people the world over meet their future partner in an entertainment establishment, same as in Thailand, you go out, yes many single thai girls want a thai bvoyfreind but also many want a farang boyfreind, same as in the west you get to know someone first, you have a chance of a relationship that may last, you just want a <deleted> then go to the above mentioned places.

BB

P.S this is an edit, i thought i had something semi-intelligent to say but as i am pissed can't remember what it was, and my above post after re-reading it makes no sense to me either, ###### heineken.

Edited April 5, 2007 by buriramboy

[CbrLad]

I think it also depends on the environment of the bars. If your talking university bars in the West, you may find your sweetheart. If your talking bars/clubs in Thailand, you probably won't. One difference with Thailand and other countries like it is that it is not culturally acceptable for girls to hang out in bars. Therefore, most of the good girls that are marriage potential you will not find in the bars/clubs in Thailand. In the West where it isn't so taboo for girls to hang out in bars/clubs, you have a better chance to meet that special one. Unless a skanky whore is your type, a Thai beer bar is not a place to meet the future wife.

You kind of hit the nail on the head there. MOST bars where western guys will hang out in LOS the girls will be prostitutes. I wouldn't go as far as to say they are skanky whores though, many, from my experiance are very nice girls and if you met in a different enviroment you might have half a chance of happiness. But if you start your relationship based on paying for friendship and sex then you have already lost one of the corner stones of a good relationship.

I was with a bar girl for a good 18 months, but it turned bad because of money. I never used to send her money, I really don't belive in it if the girl is working, I know no matter how much I sent she would still be hawking the fork, so what's the point. When I came to Bangkok which was about one week in every 6 I gave her (paid?) maybe 10-15000b which is what she would have earnt in that week and to pay the bar, which I think is fair, but it all turned to shit when she started to get greedy. She now has a 65 year old boyfriend who takes real good care of her, I think that care is worth about 50000b per month. For that she now doesn't have to work, and because he is married to another older Thai lady only has to sleep with him a couple of times a month. A match made in heaven.

The good thing though is my current Thai GF was introduced to me through a mutual friend myself and the bargirl. The mutal friend said xxxx bad lady, I have good friend, she be good for you. Well she was right. This lady who I have now been with for 12 months is a Uni student from a family with some money. The difference is very noticable and the relationship much more enjoyable. The best thing is it been built on genuine mutal like and not money and paid sex. Now if only I could work out how to get a tourist visa to the UK for a single Thai female who is about to finish uni and hence has no job or property to return to. Would be a good graduation present for her and I!!

[qwertz]

Short answer to several Bms here for your comments to date, all of which are bang on track regarding beer bar life.

Buriramboy, your perception is super sharp. I even fit the description if you leave out fat. But many of the embittered guys are relatively young and don't see themselves fitting this description. And many of the girls are no longer spring chickens.

Jetjock, this is of course the ideal. My only experience, I married a colleague when she was teaching in CM. She died young, otherwise we might still be together and I might not have left LOS. Had she slept with men for money in her past? No idea, I never asked.

T.S. I'm not sure what slip you mean here. The people I'm talking about have invested money, trust or emotion, or all three for all I know. You know you usually hear only one side of a story.

The fact remains, if I kept book, the sob stories outnumber the happy endings by about 3 to 1.

P.S. A note for the mods. I didn't want to start a "Let's do another dump on bgs" thread. I'm talking about the cynical outlook that many farangs have acquired in LOS or brought with them.

Edited April 5, 2007 by qwertz

[cobra]

... take a good look in the mirror and try to imagine what a much younger person could possibly like about them.

No need to, I'll just hold up my wallet,

As long as I remain rich, I remain attractive,

[Glauka]

Well being honest I must say that I became a cynical in LOS. Not much because of the beach boys but by girlfriend...after the tsunami she started to ask for money saying that she was in trouble...well a year later when i came back i saw that it was not true...she keep asking for money...till the point that she will get angry if I not given it to her.....

I had also a bad experience with a thai boy...so after these experience i could not trust thai people as much...I now that is not fear and i should not generalize but i cannot help my self...after I left Thailand i always had the feeling that i have something that they wanted... money, clothes...

However i must add that i had a great experience and i learned a lot in LOS...i also meet great people but for some reason i can´t forget how dissapointed and used i felt...and so far i can´t take that feeling from me...

so sad...

[a2396]

Obviously, bar people are likely to be problems in any country. That should not take rocket science to figure out. I have found extensive frustration in dealing with so-called normal woman here. In my experience, without fail, the number one objective with them is money. Everything else, if there is anything, follows after that is accomplished.

[Heng]

It's not just the place (bar, supermarket, or noodle stand). It's often -not always- just the oil and vinegar of two people from opposite ends of the socio-economic spectrum trying to build a life together. Add a handful of cultural differences... the lack of differentiation between individual and family on the local side is a significant one. Oh, and throw in that they often must communicate with hand signs and pidgin Thai/English for a good part of their relationship.

[andook]

I always find that you can't be cynical enough in a poor country like LOS. - Like "cynical" is a bad thing...? Its only a self-preservation mechanism...

You can meet some lovely girls in the bars, restaurants, and discos of most large towns; some hard-working Thai lasses do like to let their down after a long day at the office.

The old saying about taking the girl from the beer-bar still applies however.... Buyer beware.

[donna]

when in your 'home' country, if you go to a bar, do you only look at people of your own nationality? like, if you are in england for example, do you only look for english girls? if in germany, do you only look at german girls? im sure thats not the case.

its funny to hear everyone only talking about only thai girls here. there ARE other species of women around. you just have to open your eyes to see them.

[davidjtayler]

The problem with 'love stories' from Thailand is that a significant amount of people come here desperately seeking a partner for whatever reason.

This automatically leaves the blinkers on and common sense is often left at immigration ... add on the popular hunting grounds of certain famous 'red light areas and the ilk' with the language and cultural barriers and you have a succesful recipe for failure.

As in any country there are success stories and 'bad crashes' that originate from all sorts of locations and Thailand is no different in that respect but it seems to me that the 'crashes' here make the loudest noise maybe because the expectations to have a succesful relationship are so high for some upon arrival.

I read a survey somewhere that stated most succesful relationships originate from the work place and that may be true (I met my wife at work) but if common sense and patience is applied then it can happen anywhere.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

I think it also depends on the environment of the bars. If your talking university bars in the West, you may find your sweetheart. If your talking bars/clubs in Thailand, you probably won't. One difference with Thailand and other countries like it is that it is not culturally acceptable for girls to hang out in bars. Therefore, most of the good girls that are marriage potential you will not find in the bars/clubs in Thailand. In the West where it isn't so taboo for girls to hang out in bars/clubs, you have a better chance to meet that special one. Unless a skanky whore is your type, a Thai beer bar is not a place to meet the future wife.

what a load of <deleted>, lets talk about the west for a moment, you either meet people through your work environment , you were at college/university with them or you met in a bar/club. Same as in here in Thailand you stay away from Pattaya and the Nana/cowboy/patpong in bangkok, and go to the rest of the entertainment venues in bangkok you will meet a different set of people. Most people the world over meet their future partner in an entertainment establishment, same as in Thailand, you go out, yes many single thai girls want a thai bvoyfreind but also many want a farang boyfreind, same as in the west you get to know someone first, you have a chance of a relationship that may last, you just want a <deleted> then go to the above mentioned places.

BB

P.S this is an edit, i thought i had something semi-intelligent to say but as i am pissed can't remember what it was, and my above post after re-reading it makes no sense to me either, ###### heineken.

Well said buriramboy and I agree. The "bars" people are talking about are not what I would class as a bar. There are plenty of night spots that aren't just full of tourists and BG's and are much more upmarket than your open aired bus shelter with a few chairs and BGs scattered around. These cater directly to the tourist trade so what would you expect to find there?

Cheers

Jimmy

[Gary A]

... take a good look in the mirror and try to imagine what a much younger person could possibly like about them.

No need to, I'll just hold up my wallet,

As long as I remain rich, I remain attractive,

That pretty well sums it up. If you want to be a sugar daddy it may work for a while as long as you are generous. If you want a relationship that works, you would be well advised to find a lady closer to your own age. If she was a former bar girl, as long as you allow the past to be the past, that could work too. Several of my friends are married to former bar girls and after a minimum of ten years together they are still happy.

[Maigo6]

No this is the risk of trying to meet quality people in a foreign bar. Not impossible, just unlikely. You have to sort out the manipulators, the deluded, the insecure, the unstable, the freaks, the alcoholics, the cheaters, and the crooks. And you have to do this with a great big language barrier in the way.

Yes you are right, I always give this advice to every Thai woman who expresses any interest in wanting a Farang husband.

[qwertz]

when in your 'home' country, if you go to a bar, do you only look at people of your own nationality? like, if you are in england for example, do you only look for english girls? if in germany, do you only look at german girls? im sure thats not the case.

its funny to hear everyone only talking about only thai girls here. there ARE other species of women around. you just have to open your eyes to see them.

That's only because this is a Thai forum, Donna. As I said in my OP, I've had no bad experience there. My late wife (Cambodian refugee) had no family that I know of and was able to earn from teaching so money was not the first criterion. I never asked what she'd had to do to survive. We both spoke French so communication was not a problem and you need more than just talk anyway to have a pair bond. I think LOS is a favourite choice for many because a man can lay his money down and have a relationship with minimum emotional input. The embittered people are probably those men who didn't get their money's worth or those females who got too little payment for services rendered.

A western woman's interest in me wouldn't necessarily involve money but a more difficult down payment - sincerity.

Edited April 6, 2007 by qwertz

[DirkGently]

You all have me confused with the use of the word 'bar'. What kind of bars are we talking about here?

Nana plaza type bars? Not much hope of a decent girl there.

Sports bars along Sukhumvit? A mine field to be sure, but not impossible. Decent office types do venture into those places.

Thai bars. I have been to a few places where it was proberbly 100/1 Thai/Farang. No problems as long as your smartly dressed and not too obvious that your on the pull. i doubt Thai men fancy the extra competition.

I have known ladies from all 3 venus. The hooker, The office girl that wanted a little help and support and the pleasent girl that lives with her mum and would like a farang boyfriend, but would never venture in to a farang bar.

Meeting good, decent women is not too much of a challenge here in Thailand because they are everywhere. To meet them just join a gym, go bowling, smile at a girl on the BTS, get chatting with the girl on a market stall (some do speak english) or compliment her laptop in starbucks.

It worked for me and I'm nothing special.

TS. Nicely spotted my good man.