Thai man, 21, latest victim of Covid-19

[AussieBob18]

47 minutes ago, gargamon said:

The latest I've seen says even after you catch it, get sick and recover you can still pass it on to others.

Yep - just like all viral infections and many bacterial infections.  There are people that become carriers and never get sick, there are people that get sick and die quickly, there are people who get sick and the virus never leaves their body /stagnates and they continually infect others when it flares up, there are people who just never get sick from that particular infection but easily get sick from another, and all the other possible variations.   

 

Howard Hughes learned too much about infections and became obsessed with trying to avoid them to live longer.  Unfortunately, it doesnt work that way (Hughes died at 70) - humans (mammals) are extremely successful forms of life for many reasons, and one of those is our 'immune system' and how we heal ourselves - but we need to have those 'infections' to keep our immunities 'strong and active'.  The reason so many die/died from AIDS is because the disease destroyed their immune system and it did it quickly. Ebola kills a lot because the immune system cannot easily deal with the infection. 

 

Luckily, Ebola has a low contagion factor - it does not spread easily - it dies very quickly when outside the host body.  But if ever something like Ebola somehow got the contagion rate of a corona/flu virus, then we would have reason to panic. If that ever does occur, then the Govts would have to shut down all human movement across the globe - and then people would see what a real pandemic is like.  This is just a bad flu - massive over-reaction. 

 

In 2 years or so there (maybe 18 mths they reckon) they will have a vaccine - not a cure - but better than nothing.  I get a flu shot every year.  Anyone over 50 or who smokes should do the same IMO.  And dont smoke anyway - every day a much higher percentage of smokers die of respitoratory infections from new viruses and from bacterial infections. 

 

[samsensam]

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Health Anutin Charnvirakul added that his ministry is planning to give away sanitary face masks on Monday (March 2)

 

contrary to WHO, and leading medical experts around the world, advice...

 

the government has a responsibility to promote effective measures to reduce the chances of infection and not lure its citizens into a false sense of security.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/what-is-coronavirus-what-should-i-do-symptoms

[bluesofa]

24 minutes ago, thequietman said:

7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.

It's probably the wrong forum to ask, but as it's in the post above I will:

Why is warm water 'effective'?

Was the mention of not drinking liquids with ice because of potentially unhygienic ice production, or is cold water itself no good?

 

[Pravda]

35 minutes ago, thequietman said:

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

 

Everywhere I read sore throat is not a symptom. How reliable is this? 

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, Wiggy said:

I saw somebody lift their mask to sneeze yesterday. Nice. 

Did you flip them off?

I certainly would have.

[dbrenn]

48 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Your doctor is probably correct about regular viruses like influenza, cold, etc. But this one is a coronavirus. All coronaviruses(SARS, MERS, Ebola) originate in animals and have not been in humans before, and cannot be categorized the same. We just don't know how they will act. For those that believe this is just a different flu, sorry, wrong.

I think you missed the part about him being a doctor, PhD in virology ..... he knows a lot more about these things than barstool medics like us. 

 

It's not the flu, but it's a variant of a coronavirus, i.e., something that is understood and has been studied before.

 

Don't panic. Whilst getting sick with this thing sounds very unpleasant, there's a much higher chance that something else will kill you.

Edited March 1, 2020 by dbrenn

[dbrenn]

58 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

People do not necessarily become immune to the virus after getting it.  Reinfection can occur.

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/02/21/COVID-19-reinfection-cases-on-the-rise-in-China/4291582219521/

 

 

The article states "according to China state media", and we all know how reliable they are..

 

[christophe75]

11 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Everywhere I read sore throat is not a symptom. How reliable is this? 

 

This debate is almost... pointless.

 

Look at what are doing the Koreans... We have all the numbers. It's striking.

 

On 1900 members of the cult tested...

1300 had "symptoms".... 600 did not.

 

And on those 600... 70 % were infected.

 

And this is at time T (it means some of those asymptomatic carriers will start to developp symptoms later on !).

 

The "hell cruise boat" in Japan showed us exactly the same.

 

But people just want to look somewhere else. "Tik mak !"

 

The idea that "symptoms" and "travel history" are the main indicators... is just a scam. Plain and simple. An intellectual scam.

 

What is happening in Europe, in Iran, again show the same patterns : the virus is everywhere.

 

And this is precisely why the Wuwuflu virus is defeating us, and all our littles lies, our money obsession, our face obsession, our little schemes, our lazyness, our fears, etc.

 

This virus is a school of.... humility.

 

And for that matter.... alas.... it's not difficult to foresee that the thai government will not perform very well.

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by christophe75

[Tayaout]

56 minutes ago, thequietman said:

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - CORONAVIRUS
Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:
1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!
THE SYMPTOMS
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

"With COVID-19, doctors are still trying to understand the full picture of disease symptoms and severity. In a small study of about 100 people with the virus, published Jan. 30 in the journal The Lancet, the most common symptoms were fever, cough and shortness of breath. Only about 5% of patients in that study reported sore throat and runny nose, and only 1-2% reported diarrhea, nausea and vomiting. "

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

[Mung]

58 minutes ago, thequietman said:

 

 

50 minutes ago, thequietman said:

 
1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

I started to get sick on Tuesday last week, peaking 2 days ago. The symptoms you describe ring a lot of bells. It started with a sore throat and then a dry cough. I noticed my breathing was very shallow and I'd be out of breath walking up the stairs. Then came a fever, fever dreams, headaches when standing, back ache as well as ears / nose being blocked. I had a constant stream of nasal muscus running down onto my chest, which was way worse when laying down for some reason. 

 

Today however I'm almost recovered, but it was quite a nasty experience. I returned to my home country from Thailand in early February, so not sure if I did I indeed pick it up, or if it was something else. I rarely get colds and I've never had the flu before, so who knows

[dbrenn]

20 minutes ago, christophe75 said:

 

What is happening in Europe, in Iran, again show the same patterns : the virus is everywhere.

 

It's true that there are a lot of people - perhaps walking among us - that are infected and haven't yet developed symptoms.

 

My doctor (a virologist, of whom I spoke earlier) also told me that:

 

1) There is probably no stopping it now - it's in the general population and quarantine is unlikely to have any further effect

2) The lucky ones will be the people who catch it first - if you are in the small minority of cases who develop complications, then there are only a limited number of ICU beds

3) If you catch it later on, when everyone else has it, the ICU is likely to be full and your standard of care will be lower, with corresponding increase in mortality risk

 

He went on to cheerfully tell me that this is nature's way of bringing down house prices to levels where people can afford them, and restoring wage growth (I'm in Australia at the moment).

 

A lot of people will die - especially the old and the weak - but then again 62 people die every day on Thailand's roads, and around 1,500 per day die from other causes, and we don't really notice that. Unlike the Spanish Flu, which had a mortality rate of up to 20%, and targeted the young and fit, people in reasonably good health are unlikely to cop it this time around.

Edited March 1, 2020 by dbrenn

[geriatrickid]

3 hours ago, UbonThani said:

How do you label the flu then? World disaster.

It is a pity you  are too lazy to look up the applicable definitions;

Seasonal flu can become an epidemic if it is a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time. A pandemic is an infectious disease prevalent throughout a country or in multiple countries at the same time.

"Flu" is typically seasonal.  And the seasons are different  around the world. For example, summer in the southern hemisphere is typically winter in the northern hemisphere, and within the hemisphere's are variations.

If you do not wish to be ridiculed, do make an effort to understand the basic concepts, ok?

[RichardColeman]

Maybe for safety purposes they should stop 90 day  reporting until further notice

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Flu can't spread to 4 billion people. No one has immunity against nCoV2019.

Spanish Flu (1918) spread around the world, infecting nearly a third of the entire world population, with estimates of up to 100 million dead - a higher death toll than WWI and WWII combined - at a time when the global population was 1.8 billion. Average life expectancy in the US dropped by a whopping 12 years because of it. It was a regular 'H1N1 influenza A' flu virus, but a very nasty one that targeted the young and fit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2018/03-04/history-spanish-flu-pandemic/

 

We should never underestimate the power of nature, and how easily it can kill us. But nearly all of us will survive this coronavirus, unless it mutates into something nastier of course. Then again, we might all get killed before that happens - an asteroid could come crashing through the ceiling as I type this.

 

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your weekend, and try not to worry too much.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by dbrenn

[CGW]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

Why is warm water 'effective'?

If you drink cold water the body has to heat it before it can use, if you drink warm water the body doesn't have to work to heat so maintains its heat, the body naturally heats up to fight "virus" or whatever, thus drinking hot liquids is easier on the body, adding ginger, garlic, peppers etc maintains body heat energy.

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

Unlike the Spanish Flu, which had a mortality rate of up to 20%,

Where do you get the nonsense you spout?

"The World Health Organization estimates that 2–3% of those who were infected died (case-fatality ratio).^[51] It is estimated that approximately 30 million were killed by the flu, or about 1.7% of the world population died.^[52] Other estimates range from 17 to 55 million fatalities"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

2-3% for Spanish flu, 2% for Covid-19.  Hmmm.

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[JHolmesJr]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Age 21 he should recover quickly

 You're missing the point....

 

"The latest infected patient is a Thai man aged 21, who has been exposed to foreign tourists,”.....

 

Unless they are also all 21 we may have further transmission...to bargirls, other hotel staff...and on it goes.

[dbrenn]

18 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Where do you get the nonsense you spout?

"The World Health Organization estimates that 2–3% of those who were infected died (case-fatality ratio).^[51] It is estimated that approximately 30 million were killed by the flu, or about 1.7% of the world population died.^[52] Other estimates range from 17 to 55 million fatalities"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

 

2-3% for Spanish flu, 2% for Covid-19.  Hmmm.

If you think that I'm talking nonsense, then why are you quoting my sources?

 

It's common knowledge that Spanish flu was a pandemic back in 1918 - we'll both have to concede that statistics were much harder to measure back then, as most countries didn't share information to any great extent, the computer database hadn't been invented, etc -- hence, the large range of estimates depending on where you read. But let's not split hairs here, and just accept that it was a truly awful pandemic that devastated the general population, killing vast (30,50,100, who knows) millions of otherwise healthy people, targeting the young and fit as it seemed to do. Unlike COVID-19, which seems to behave more like traditional flu and is more dangerous to the elderly than the young - so far.

 

Spanish flu was a humble H1N1 flu virus though, and something similar could pop up any time. You were saying that the coronaviruses are nastier than the flu? How wrong you were, if you don't mind my saying so.

Edited March 1, 2020 by dbrenn

[legend49]

“The latest infected patient is a Thai man aged 21, who has been exposed to foreign tourists,” said Dr Sukhum Kanjanapimai

 

Exposed to what tourists and where? Never any real data in these statements.

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, legend49 said:

“The latest infected patient is a Thai man aged 21, who has been exposed to foreign tourists,” said Dr Sukhum Kanjanapimai

Exposed to what tourists and where? Never any real data in these statements.

Well according the the 'ealth minister, ai ferangs are ai ferangs. No need for him to be specific.

Perhaps it could mean exposed as in 'the biblical sense' for all we know?

[gargamon]

54 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

If you think that I'm talking nonsense, then why are you quoting my sources?

 

It's common knowledge that Spanish flu was a pandemic back in 1918 - we'll both have to concede that statistics were much harder to measure back then, as most countries didn't share information to any great extent, the computer database hadn't been invented, etc -- hence, the large range of estimates depending on where you read. But let's not split hairs here, and just accept that it was a truly awful pandemic that devastated the general population, killing vast (30,50,100, who knows) millions of otherwise healthy people, targeting the young and fit as it seemed to do. Unlike COVID-19, which seems to behave more like traditional flu and is more dangerous to the elderly than the young - so far.

 

Spanish flu was a humble H1N1 flu virus though, and something similar could pop up any time. You were saying that the coronaviruses are nastier than the flu? How wrong you were, if you don't mind my saying so.

Your quote was "Unlike the Spanish Flu, which had a mortality rate of up to 20%". I see nothing even remotely close to that number in the wiki you say you used as a reference...

[scubascuba3]

52 minutes ago, legend49 said:

“The latest infected patient is a Thai man aged 21, who has been exposed to foreign tourists,” said Dr Sukhum Kanjanapimai

 

Exposed to what tourists and where? Never any real data in these statements.

Probably Chinese but they don't want to say

[dbrenn]

29 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Your quote was "Unlike the Spanish Flu, which had a mortality rate of up to 20%". I see nothing even remotely close to that number in the wiki you say you used as a reference...

Various sources ... the up to 20% mortality rate was perhaps localised to certain territories, I'll concede. And, again, measuring these things was much more difficult back then.

 

http://www.influenzavirusnet.com/1918-flu-pandemic/mortality.html

https://interestingengineering.com/the-1918-spanish-flu-and-what-it-cost-humanity-a-timeline

 

Now, perhaps, you'll concede that the flu virus was just as nasty, or more so, than this coronavirus? Earlier, you were refuting the advice of a qualified virologist with barstool-medic claims that the flu was somehow benign.

 

Will this be worse than Spanish Flu? Only time will tell, but I doubt it because of advances in healthcare, and the peculiarity of Spanish Flu in that it targeted the young and fit.

Edited March 1, 2020 by dbrenn

[Gee Ku]

Curt1591, you could be mistakened for a sex tourist.

[Traubert]

3 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

It is a pity you  are too lazy to look up the applicable definitions;

Seasonal flu can become an epidemic if it is a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time. A pandemic is an infectious disease prevalent throughout a country or in multiple countries at the same time.

"Flu" is typically seasonal.  And the seasons are different  around the world. For example, summer in the southern hemisphere is typically winter in the northern hemisphere, and within the hemisphere's are variations.

If you do not wish to be ridiculed, do make an effort to understand the basic concepts, ok?

Thats quite some high horse you're on there.

 

Hope you can stay mounted.

[metempsychotic]

5 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

So being born is scary now......

It most certainly is.

[Traubert]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Probably Chinese but they don't want to say

More likely Japanese or Korean as these are the current hot spots but dont let that curb your sinophobia.

[soalbundy]

8 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

The news abroad says that people are asymptomatic, that is, they carry it but have no symptoms. That is very scary and dangerous. Once our leaders believe that, we can tackle it.

 

With a center in the US in lock down, it is getting worse! Personally, I am declaring it a pandemic.

What's scary about having no symptoms and if you do have symptoms it's 98% like having a bad cold or influenza. People love a good horror story, I see the Daily Express is asking if this is the 'end of times' as prophesied in the bible, yeah, the second coming, you've got to laugh or weep.

[bluesofa]

8 minutes ago, Traubert said:

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Probably Chinese but they don't want to say

More likely Japanese or Korean as these are the current hot spots but dont let that curb your sinophobia.

I didn't realise he had a blocked nose?