Britain fires with both barrels - emergency rate cut and budget boost

[Rookiescot]

If labour had been elected and come out with a budget like this all the right wing media and Brexiteers would have been screaming about it.

 

[Logosone]

Yes, it's amazing isn't it, the party of fiscal responsibility, the Tories acting like a drunk Greek Immelda Marcos on a car-shopping spree. 

 

You have a Mercedes! And you! And you! And a Mercedes for you!

 

 

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If labour had been elected and come out with a budget like this all the right wing media and Brexiteers would have been screaming about it.

 

If Labour had been elected????????????????. 

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

If Labour had been elected????????????????. 

So you agree with the rest of my post but object to the idea of labour being elected?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

So you agree with the rest of my post but object to the idea of labour being elected?

I think that if you didn't hate the Tories/Boris so much that your posts might even be more balanced, but when all we get is this constant drone it becomes so depressing.

But didn't Rishi Sunak give a great first budget delivery, it gave the country a massive boost of confidence, and since you brought it up, could you have ever imagined John McDonnall giving such a wonderfull budget speech. Thank the lord we have a Tory government in office at these times of crisis.

[Logosone]

It gave the country a massive boost of confidence?

 

Your own institutions are grabbing on to the seats of their pants;

 

"Sir Charlie Bean, a member of the OBR's budget responsibility committee, added: "Clearly the more debt you build up, the more exposed you are if things go wrong.

"And there's a good general principle that you want to have the debt-to-GDP ratio declining in good times, to build up the space for responding precisely to the events like the coronavirus.

"If you only have the ambition to keep debt constant as a proportion of GDP, every time you get a bad shock, you just ratchet that up again."

 

"However, the OBR said the government's decision to move away from trying to reduce Britain's debt in relation to the size of the economy, could store up problems for the future."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51836555

 

Yes, sounds like your own institutions are confident. Confident that there'll be problems ahead with this kind of fiscal irresponsibility. 

[soalbundy]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The only person that is stating as a fact that the UK will have to pay exactly the same same figure it paid in EU membership fees  only disguised as tariffs in return for exporting  to the EU,

Can you please provide a link to support this statement or should we assume it's FAKE NEWS and you have just made it up

PS  if the UK chooses to import nothing from the EU how many jobs will go in Germany 100,000 or 300,000

But you can't not import, Britain has lost any engineering expertise that it once had, there are no British cars that have the status of BMW or Mercedes, Rolls Royce is owned by BMW and has a BMW engine the body work is stamped in Germany Bentley is owned by VW, Oh a Morgan is still British with a Japanese motor and different parts from the EU. Britain has a very efficient farming industry but still can't feed itself. The UK is only geographically an island and its nearest partners geographically, mentally and politically are in Europe, its no use hanging onto the apron of America (especially under Trump), the special relationship is just a mind game.

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think that if you didn't hate the Tories/Boris so much that your posts might even be more balanced, but when all we get is this constant drone it becomes so depressing.

But didn't Rishi Sunak give a great first budget delivery, it gave the country a massive boost of confidence, and since you brought it up, could you have ever imagined John McDonnall giving such a wonderfull budget speech. Thank the lord we have a Tory government in office at these times of crisis.

Physician heal thyself. 

[JonnyF]

7 hours ago, samran said:

Why do you think I care about the Aussie dollar? I earn US dollars.

 

I also don’t tie up my sense of identity with what a currency happens to be doing...but good try anyway. 
 

A friendly tip for next time so you can further refine your insult skills, your use of ‘bogan’ was just darn awkward. 

I earn in Baht. The weak pound is great for me thanks.

 

I was just pointing out that a Brit Bashing Bogan pointing out the weak pound as a way of continuing a very obvious and repetitive campaign of hate on the UK is on thin ice considering the state of the Aussie dollar. 

 

Carry on with your 1000's of posts Brit bashing though. Whatever helps lift those long days ????.

[DannyCarlton]

4 hours ago, Logosone said:

No. You see unlike the US, which after the 1930s just forgave the UK its debt the creditors of the UK currently have no reason to be so lenient. 

Completely untrue the UK paid it's debt with interest. The only country that the US let off the hook was Germany.

[Rookiescot]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I earn in Baht. The weak pound is great for me thanks.

 

I was just pointing out that a Brit Bashing Bogan pointing out the weak pound as a way of continuing a very obvious and repetitive campaign of hate on the UK is on thin ice considering the state of the Aussie dollar. 

 

Carry on with your 1000's of posts Brit bashing though. Whatever helps lift those long days ????.

My company pension is paid into the UK. I they have to transfer the cash to Thailand.

Your support for Brexit has cost me money.

I am sure me and all the others in Thailand are more than happy to see you prospering at the expense of the rest of us.

 

These posts are not brit bashing. Its just facts.

[Logosone]

20 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Completely untrue the UK paid it's debt with interest. The only country that the US let off the hook was Germany.

Afraid not. Unlike the Lannisters, the UK doesn't always pay its debts:

 

"And while the UK dutifully pays off its World War II debts, those from World War I remain resolutely unpaid. And are by no means trifling. In 1934, Britain owed the US $4.4bn of World War I debt (about £866m at 1934 exchange rates). Adjusted by the Retail Price Index, a typical measure of inflation, £866m would equate to £40bn now, and if adjusted by the growth of GDP, to about £225bn.

"We just sort of gave up around 1932 when the interwar economy was in turmoil, currencies were collapsing," says Prof Harrison."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

[englishoak]

15 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

If taking on 125 billion GBP extra debt and letting the children of the UK, and their children, and their children's children pay for the way the British adults live now is positive then this budget was massively positive.

 

Worked really well for Greece.

 

To live above your means is undisciplined, thoughtless, irresponsible, and frankly selfish. Future UK generations will have to pay for this Brexit government's budget of handouts and re-election bribes.

 

Of course there is nothing positive about this budget, which by its own admission is a budget to deal with crisis. What is the British response to crisis? Borrow more and more and more and more.

 

Man are you guys headed for a face down fall in the mud. The bill always comes.

 

Just ask Greece what happened when foreign creditors refused to pay after Greece maxed out its credit card. 

You are trying to compare Apples and Oranges

 

The UK isnt Greece. Our economy is about 20x that of Greece, I cant be bothered to go into the economics of borrowing vs interest rates and GDP but suffice to say the UK has nothing like the problems Greece had/has and pensioners here retire a decade later than Greeks which was part of their problem to begin with. 

 

The UK is going to be just fine no matter what whining,pitiful and clueless rubbish you wish to come up with here thread after thread, your analogies are getting more and more laughably ignorant tbh. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by englishoak

[vinny41]

10 hours ago, soalbundy said:

But you can't not import, Britain has lost any engineering expertise that it once had, there are no British cars that have the status of BMW or Mercedes, Rolls Royce is owned by BMW and has a BMW engine the body work is stamped in Germany Bentley is owned by VW, Oh a Morgan is still British with a Japanese motor and different parts from the EU. Britain has a very efficient farming industry but still can't feed itself. The UK is only geographically an island and its nearest partners geographically, mentally and politically are in Europe, its no use hanging onto the apron of America (especially under Trump), the special relationship is just a mind game.

I think you have forgotten about Jaguar Cars made in the UK, toyota cars made in the UK, Nissan Cars made in the UK, Vauxhall cars made in the UK,Aston Martin Cars made in the Uk

[jastheace]

On 3/11/2020 at 4:02 PM, sandrabbit said:

?

 

 

Sinclair c5, in case you were wondering. wahey the uk leads the way....

[Logosone]

4 hours ago, englishoak said:

You are trying to compare Apples and Oranges

 

The UK isnt Greece. Our economy is about 20x that of Greece, I cant be bothered to go into the economics of borrowing vs interest rates and GDP but suffice to say the UK has nothing like the problems Greece had/has and pensioners here retire a decade later than Greeks which was part of their problem to begin with. 

 

The UK is going to be just fine no matter what whining,pitiful and clueless rubbish you wish to come up with here thread after thread, your analogies are getting more and more laughably ignorant tbh. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all, excessive borrowing is still excessive borrowing. And the effect of borrowing excessively will be exactly the same in the UK as it is in Greece, creditor countries will refuse to buy more bonds.

 

We have seen how the (UK based) credit rating agencies are downgrading the UK more and more each year.

 

Of course that's what Greeks thought as well, Greece is going to be just fine no matter what. Then reality kicked in.

 

It was not necessary to borrow to the extreme the way the Brexit government did, and yet again burden future generations of British youth with the problems of today's Britons.

 

We have seen that in the response from the European Central Bank, which though expected to do so, did not cut rates and provided a much more cold-blooded approach than the Brexiters in the UK.

 

But then the main EU economies are in better shape and do not need such extreme revival measures, and Lagarde is not bribing the electorate for re-election.

 

Yes, the UK is not Greece, and UK pensions are still in better shape. But it is wrong to say you have none of the problems Greece has. You have many of the exact same problems as Greece. A series of governments that again and again fail to reduce government borrowing but instead keep borrowing more. This is not a single one off, but a pattern in UK politics.

 

"...the resulting deterioration in the U.K.‘s fiscal position highlights the sovereign’s ongoing difficulty in meaningfully reducing the U.K.’s gross general government debt burden from its current high levels,” Sarah Carlson, a Moody’s senior vice president, said.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/uk-government-announces-12-billion-pounds-to-tackle-coronavirus-in-2020-budget.html

 

Even UK based rating agencies agree that the UK is failing to reduce debt as it should. Even your own governmment bodies like the ORB said that problems are to be expected in the future.

 

"However, the OBR said the government's decision to move away from trying to reduce Britain's debt in relation to the size of the economy, could store up problems for the future."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51836555

[sandyf]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:00 PM, sandrabbit said:

And what did labour do under Blair, get their great grandchildren to still pay for what they did ............

And the tories claimed it was something they would never do, surprise surprise, speaking with forked tongue.

The UK never learns from past mistakes.

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The state pension is paid for by national insurance contributions, which come from the wages of people working today. Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them. 

That is not entirely true. There is insufficient NI to meet the state pension liability and the shortfall comes from general taxation.

My income tax which is based on all income including the state pension, pays part of my own state pension.

Only the UK could make pensioners pay towards their pension from their pension.

[sandyf]

On 3/11/2020 at 10:57 PM, Logosone said:

But haven't we seen the UK already going on as before? The chancellor today unveiled a budget which increases UK borrowing by 125 billion £. The Brexiters are getting the children of the UK to pay for their policies. Generations of British will pay for this budget. 

Quite. I watched the budget speech, like a pantomime character playing to children.

The positive aspects of the budget were overshadowed by the bragging that it could all be paid for as a result of screwing the population into the ground for a decade.

The budget spending is at a level the tories have always maintained that no responsible government could ever sign up to, in short, an irresponsible budget.

[Logosone]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite. I watched the budget speech, like a pantomime character playing to children.

The positive aspects of the budget were overshadowed by the bragging that it could all be paid for as a result of screwing the population into the ground for a decade.

The budget spending is at a level the tories have always maintained that no responsible government could ever sign up to, in short, an irresponsible budget.

 

Rather concerningly the UK's own Office for Budget Responsibility, financed by the UK Treasury itself agrees with this.

 

Abandoning long-term goals to balance the books could have consequences, the Office for Budget Responsibility said.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51836555

 

The UK Treasury's OWN watchdog body says this. And we have Brexit cheerleaders on here who claim that everyone thinks it was a fantastic budget. Sad really.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Rather concerningly the UK's own Office for Budget Responsibility, financed by the UK Treasury itself agrees with this.

 

Abandoning long-term goals to balance the books could have consequences, the Office for Budget Responsibility said.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51836555

 

The UK Treasury's OWN watchdog body says this. And we have Brexit cheerleaders on here who claim that everyone thinks it was a fantastic budget. Sad really.

Thing is Johnson has little choice. He knows the economic damage from Brexit is going to be huge and has to pump public money into the economy to try and offset that.

Most of this funding on infrastructure is going to be spaffed on HS2. Will be some lovely contracts for Conservative party donors like JCB.

[Logosone]

Quite, he's like another nationalist from Austria in the past who was also forced to gamble everything in economic terms. I remember people cheered him a lot as well.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Quite, he's like another nationalist from Austria in the past who was also forced to gamble everything in economic terms. I remember people cheered him a lot as well.

Aye and within a few years you couldn't find anyone who would admit they voted for him.

Suspect Johnson and Brexit will have a similar future.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Aye and within a few years you couldn't find anyone who would admit they voted for him.

Suspect Johnson and Brexit will have a similar future.

I think you'll find there will be more people admitting to voting for Boris than Alex Salmond, IMO.????

 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think you'll find there will be more people admitting to voting for Boris than Alex Salmond, IMO.????

 

Oh hes guilty already is he?

[englishoak]

50 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Not at all, excessive borrowing is still excessive borrowing. And the effect of borrowing excessively will be exactly the same in the UK as it is in Greece, creditor countries will refuse to buy more bonds.

 

We have seen how the (UK based) credit rating agencies are downgrading the UK more and more each year.

 

Of course that's what Greeks thought as well, Greece is going to be just fine no matter what. Then reality kicked in.

 

It was not necessary to borrow to the extreme the way the Brexit government did, and yet again burden future generations of British youth with the problems of today's Britons.

 

We have seen that in the response from the European Central Bank, which though expected to do so, did not cut rates and provided a much more cold-blooded approach than the Brexiters in the UK.

 

But then the main EU economies are in better shape and do not need such extreme revival measures, and Lagarde is not bribing the electorate for re-election.

 

Yes, the UK is not Greece, and UK pensions are still in better shape. But it is wrong to say you have none of the problems Greece has. You have many of the exact same problems as Greece. A series of governments that again and again fail to reduce government borrowing but instead keep borrowing more. This is not a single one off, but a pattern in UK politics.

 

"...the resulting deterioration in the U.K.‘s fiscal position highlights the sovereign’s ongoing difficulty in meaningfully reducing the U.K.’s gross general government debt burden from its current high levels,” Sarah Carlson, a Moody’s senior vice president, said.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/uk-government-announces-12-billion-pounds-to-tackle-coronavirus-in-2020-budget.html

 

Even UK based rating agencies agree that the UK is failing to reduce debt as it should. Even your own governmment bodies like the ORB said that problems are to be expected in the future.

 

"However, the OBR said the government's decision to move away from trying to reduce Britain's debt in relation to the size of the economy, could store up problems for the future."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51836555

 

Except the Government hasnt actually borrowed anything as yet, its intending to yes and if the landscape changes so will its plans, no economy stays the same over time and  your example of our continuing economic woes is in large part to do with imo being one of the major net contributors to the EU bloodsuckers for 40+ years. This will no longer an issue.  We have often funded investment by borrowing over the past few hundred years. Its really not an issue, as much as it may seem one on paper and it used to bother me but once i got into the details i realised its really isnt. I wont go indepth into the financial markets history but suffice to say the UK tweaked and wrote the rules for much of the system the world uses today and understands it very well, with all its dodgy dealings and warts the city of London is the global financial centre and no one believes its a big risk in the financial circles i know or talk to.  Savvy and wily or timing is more the words being used in the city since last week and i agree with that. The media isnt the city and of course most media still hates the idea of leaving, especially the BBC darlings so are still banging the drum of doom but its beginning to fade and will continue to as time moves on. 

 

No nation in the EU are reducing their debts, in fact the UK has a similar level to the EU overall and less than France which is a similar size, They also continuously beak their own fiscal rules.   economy.. https://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficits-comparison-of-the-eu-member-states.html

 

The worlds financing works on borrowing from the future, im not saying this is ok im merely stating how it is, therefore the best time to do large borrowing is when interest rates are minimal, the UK isnt a small economy but huge so has little trouble doing so any more than the other large economies running even greater deficits like France or Japan do or would. It is how the system works and the present time and going forward will be zero rates, possibly even negative rates. We also have a long record on borrowing and aside war borrowing ( with crippling rates attached ) have never had any problems repaying or defaulted and wrote most of the book on financing practices, loopholes and usage. The Uk has financed most of the past 400 years in this method one way or another, so im pretty sure its not going to be an issue now. 

 

Personally id rather everyone lived within their means including the UK but thats not how nations economies work and the financial system needs government borrowing to even survive. I will admit I do hate the fact that numbers can be simply entered on a computer to make massive amounts out of literally nothing now, it only makes the system more untrustworthy and opaque along with derivatives, credit swaps and all other manner of made up fancy worded bundles and schemes hardly anyone can any longer understand in full. Literally anything could be a complete fabrication and risk assessments or ratings are nothing to rely on anymore. This week is a clear sign 08 did nothing but delay and inflate a much much bigger global problem fuelled by made up wealth that doesn't exist by the simply stoke of a few computer keys, at some point that will have to get shaken out, maybe it is happening right now but I expect the massive coming global QE program will just kick the can further down the road. 

 

There is a possibility this virus which imo is being used to pop the everything bubble could for a time lead to the mother of all crashes and into recession if not global depression or/and the greater global economy seizing up, then we will all have much bigger problems to worry about. Personally i think they will just pump whatever numbers they need to until things stabilise for a while and the future will have to figure it out. 

 

Hmm that reply got away from me... ahh well nevermind. 

 

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

My company pension is paid into the UK. I they have to transfer the cash to Thailand.

Your support for Brexit has cost me money.

I am sure me and all the others in Thailand are more than happy to see you prospering at the expense of the rest of us.

 

These posts are not brit bashing. Its just facts.

I have the upmost sympathy (I mean that genuinely, I am not being sarcastic) for people for are suffering from the weak pound. However, currency fluctuations always see some benefit and others lose out. That is the nature of the beast. Had Remainers given losers consent in 2016 we could have avoided years of stalemate and the pound would be well on the way to recovery by now so maybe you reap what you sow.

 

No doubt if we see a return to the 2005/2006 GBP strength you'll be shedding tears for people like me and British exporters who would lose out? Nah, didn't think so. 

 

My support for Brexit has cost you money? Well, let's flip that. Had your opposition to Brexit been successful, not only would I have lost tens of thousands of pounds but I would have lost the ability to live under a truly Democratic system in a sovereign nation. Would you care? No, you wouldn't.

[samran]

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I earn in Baht. The weak pound is great for me thanks.

 

I was just pointing out that a Brit Bashing Bogan pointing out the weak pound as a way of continuing a very obvious and repetitive campaign of hate on the UK is on thin ice considering the state of the Aussie dollar. 

 

Carry on with your 1000's of posts Brit bashing though. Whatever helps lift those long days ????.

Hmmm, I wasn't the one who pointed it out, but as per normal, don't let the truth get in the way of a pretty mediocre sledge.

 

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I have the upmost sympathy (I mean that genuinely, I am not being sarcastic) for people for are suffering from the weak pound. However, currency fluctuations always see some benefit and others lose out. That is the nature of the beast. Had Remainers given losers consent in 2016 we could have avoided years of stalemate and the pound would be well on the way to recovery by now so maybe you reap what you sow.

 

No doubt if we see a return to the 2005/2006 GBP strength you'll be shedding tears for people like me and British exporters who would lose out? Nah, didn't think so. 

 

My support for Brexit has cost you money? Well, let's flip that. Had your opposition to Brexit been successful, not only would I have lost tens of thousands of pounds but I would have lost the ability to live under a truly Democratic system in a sovereign nation. Would you care? No, you wouldn't.

Had the ERG and other Brexit fanatics voted for Mays deal then we would have remained in the single market and yes the pound would have bounced back.

 

 

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Had the ERG and other Brexit fanatics voted for Mays deal then we would have remained in the single market and yes the pound would have bounced back.

 

 

And had the SNP and the Labour party had voted for Mays deal you would have remained in the single market, so let's be thankfull for small mercies. But it is always somebody elses fault.