Europe is epicentre of coronavirus pandemic - WHO

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

This is plain wrong - 5,000 people that had the corona virus have died - that does not mean they died from it. The vast vast majority were old, infirm people in the very late stages of life. 

 

In the U.K. alone 1,500 people die every day - just like these people. 
 

ALL of UK virus related deaths involved people in ‘at risk’ groups PRIOR to this virus which the virus may or may not have escalated. Or played no part whatsoever. 
 

I think their should be ‘panic police’ employed on here to curtail the nonsense! 

You heard it here first - latest conspiracy theory. COVID-19 is a plot by Western governments to cull the numbers of the elderly so as to reduce their welfare costs

Edited March 15, 2020 by ThaiBunny

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

This is plain wrong - 5,000 people that had the corona virus have died - that does not mean they died from it. The vast vast majority were old, infirm people in the very late stages of life. 

 

In the U.K. alone 1,500 people die every day - just like these people. 
 

ALL of UK virus related deaths involved people in ‘at risk’ groups PRIOR to this virus which the virus may or may not have escalated. Or played no part whatsoever. 
 

I think their should be ‘panic police’ employed on here to curtail the nonsense! 

Fully agree, this virus thing is getting blown out of proportion, the media and the dear leaders are doing much more damage than the virus itself imho.

I could be wrong though, let's see what happens in the next weeks.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

You heard it here first - latest conspiracy theory. COVID-19 is a plot by Western governments to cull the numbers of the elderly so as to reduce their welfare costs

It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[URMySunshine]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Fully agree, this virus thing is getting blown out of proportion, the media and the dear leaders are doing much more damage than the virus itself imho.

I could be wrong though, let's see what happens in the next weeks.

How do you explain Trump's about turn then  ?

[mauGR1]

39 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

How do you explain Trump's about turn then  ?

Lol, i'm still trying to understand how he managed to make it to the WH.

Jokes apart, the virus might even reveal itself deadly for younger, healthy people too, it's too early to say, but we can be sure that the damage to all world economies will be huge.

..Not to mention all the mental stress which people are enduring, and we don't know yet for how long.

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

This is plain wrong - 5,000 people that had the corona virus have died - that does not mean they died from it. The vast vast majority were old, infirm people in the very late stages of life. 

 

In the U.K. alone 1,500 people die every day - just like these people. 
 

ALL of UK virus related deaths involved people in ‘at risk’ groups PRIOR to this virus which the virus may or may not have escalated. Or played no part whatsoever. 
 

I think their should be ‘panic police’ employed on here to curtail the nonsense! 

You could not be more wrong. These 5,000 people that died, these are not  5,000 that died, they are 5,000  more people that died!!  

  I will be 63 in June and I have a heart condition, If I get the virus there is a good chance (about 3%) that I will die. If it was not for the virus I can expect to live another 20 years.

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/14/2020 at 4:32 PM, aussienam said:

End of the day it is a bat virus that spread in a dirty Wuhan slaughter market that was an ideal zoonotic  pathogen transmission point. 

That hasn't been conclusively established. About 2/3 of the earliest cluster of confirmed cases were people who had links to the Huanan market but equally, a third of them had no links to it.

 

It has subsequently emerged that "the first patient – who started experiencing symptoms as early as 1 December 2019 – had no reported link to the market, or the other patients."

 

Scientists still searching for source of CoVid-19

[URMySunshine]

26 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, i'm still trying to understand how he managed to make it to the WH.

Jokes apart, the virus might even reveal itself deadly for younger, healthy people too, it's too early to say, but we can be sure that the damage to all world economies will be huge.

..Not to mention all the mental stress which people are enduring, and we don't know yet for how long.

My best guess is this will be on the wane in 3 months time and by 6 months effective cures will be found and widely available. But that's still a long time and the economic impact has only just begun. 

[sirineou]

8 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Cannot argue with that.  But it is also true that in each month of the year an average of 40,000 people die from flu related causes. This wuhan corona covid-19 virus is new and they are worried it could become a serious pandemic because it is so contagious. Rightly so they have instigated protocols and measures. But the panic is over the top - no toilet rolls in the shops? 

I don't think it is panic as much as it is crowd reinforcing behaviour. 

  During an emergency people do things they would not otherwise do just in case. When we see people doing such things we do them also, not because we are in "panic" but because if we did not do them now, we might not have the chance to do them later if we needed to . 

  We don't use toilet paper, have not for over 10 years, we use the "bum gun".

    So we are at the supermarket, and we see most of the toilet paper gone, even though we don't use toilet paper, Other who visit our house do, and even though we don't need it now, because others are buying it, and we are concerned that we might not be able to buy it later when we need it, so we buy it also.adding to the shortage.  

   No panic, but a crown induced,self reinforcing vicious  circle.

 Do I make any sense? 

 

 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

My best guess is this will be on the wane in 3 months time and by 6 months effective cures will be found and widely available. But that's still a long time and the economic impact has only just begun. 

I hope you are right in your prediction, but 6 months is a long time, i wonder how long before we see riots in the streets.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Do I make any sense? 

 

Never

..Just kidding, stay safe mate.

 

[URMySunshine]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I hope you are right in your prediction, but 6 months is a long time, i wonder how long before we see riots in the streets.

Unfortunately the logic of the infectivity of the virus and it's rate of spread in a pandemic means those figures are fairly predictable at this stage. Government are going to have to have a hands on approach to keeping supply lines open and help available to all or face the wrath of a frightened , hungry people. In Thailand it is fairly self-evident they are not up to the job. If I was there now I would quietly prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best and the reality will probably lie between those 2 extremes. I feel that the economic impact in Thailand will end up being more important than the disease element.

Edited March 15, 2020 by URMySunshine

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, URMySunshine said:

I feel that the economic impact in Thailand will end up being more important than the disease element. 

That's exactly what i fear most, and not only in Thailand, but possibly in every country in the world.

Btw, i wonder why Russia is never mentioned in the news, strange.

 

[URMySunshine]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's exactly what i fear most, and not only in Thailand, but possibly in every country in the world.

Btw, i wonder why Russia is never mentioned in the news, strange.

 

I've wondered that idly when going over top to conspiracy ville. We will have global civil unrest that's a given when people have no money or work - the rich in Thailand have plenty of fat on the bone and they will need to open their stingy hands or fear for their own futures. There's one big bone the army could chuck to the people in a crisis and I'm half-expecting that as a likely outcome down the line. As far as tourism goes it's nuked for the season even when this blows over which it will folk will have far less discretionary  spend for holidays and other 'luxuries'. 

 

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/russia-iran-coronavirus-bioweapon/

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

Unfortunately the logic of the infectivity of the virus and it's rate of spread in a pandemic means those figures are fairly predictable at this stage. Government are going to have to have a hands on approach to keeping supply lines open and help available to all or face the wrath of a frightened , hungry people. In Thailand it is fairly self-evident they are not up to the job. If I was there now I would quietly prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best and the reality will probably lie between those 2 extremes. I feel that the economic impact in Thailand will end up being more important than the disease element. 

There are still a few unknowns not included in the calculus of the rate of infection that could work in our favor.

  For instance  the effect of hot humid weather on the transmission rate. 

The introduction of a "cure". Right now many are working on cures with good success, but such cures can only be used a limited number of humans because of protocols.

Because a patient will die anyway under the "Right to try law" "compassionate use"  experimental interventions were used with good results, but too limited use for conclusive results.

remdesivir is one such drug used on one patient with life saving success at the  University of California Davis Medical Center

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/did-experimental-drug-help-us-coronavirus-patient

  If the virus progresses to where there are not enough mechanical respirators and people are dying from it I am sure the "right to use" law will be expanded to use a lot more people, speeding up the development of a cure. 

So let's not lose hope yet.   

[AussieBob18]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I don't think it is panic as much as it is crowd reinforcing behaviour. 

  During an emergency people do things they would not otherwise do just in case. When we see people doing such things we do them also, not because we are in "panic" but because if we did not do them now, we might not have the chance to do them later if we needed to . 

  We don't use toilet paper, have not for over 10 years, we use the "bum gun".

    So we are at the supermarket, and we see most of the toilet paper gone, even though we don't use toilet paper, Other who visit our house do, and even though we don't need it now, because others are buying it, and we are concerned that we might not be able to buy it later when we need it, so we buy it also.adding to the shortage.  

   No panic, but a crown induced,self reinforcing vicious  circle.

 Do I make any sense?

 

Yep - human behaviour when scared is incredible - and some people scare so easily - they dont think.  Doomsday scare mongerers always have a ready pool of stupid people to fire up.  We use the guns too - but also have paper for if/when needed.

 

[Senior Player]

It seems to me that the majority of people have forgotten that it was the director-general of WHO, Dr. Tedros Adhanom, that said: “The WHO doesn’t recommend and actually opposes any restrictions for travel and trade or other measures against China. If anyone is thinking about taking measures, it’s going to be wrong.” In case you forgot, this was said on February 2nd when Trump and Israel put in place strict travel restrictions on China and were immediately slapped down by Dr. Tedros and his WHO cohorts for going against his CCP paymasters. Had every world government actually been advised by Dr. Tedros and WHO to impose severe restrictions on flights and travel going to and from China and its territories this virus would have been far easier to contain and not spread so exponentially as we now have it. Thanks to WHO dithering and wasting valuable time dreaming up a new name for coronavirus that doesn't offend China, and refusing to call it an epidemic when everyone else knew it was, we now have a situation that has grown steadily out of hand. I also find it both laughable and lamentable that Dr. Tedros has only just found his voice in the past few days when it has affected Europe, and was quick to pass judgement on any western government that he feels isn't doing enough to halt the spread. If Dr. Tedros really wants to know where the problem first emanated from, then he need only hold up a mirror to find his answer.

 

Had the world taken multilateral action against China on correct advice given by WHO back in late January and not anti-CCP propaganda, we would've had more time to prepare, but everything was being downplayed by these CCP collaborators with accusations of xenophobia on anyone that dared to oppose the WHO's incompetent and questionable view. 

 

Of course, there's no turning back the clock, but please remember that it was WHO and Dr. Tedros that told everyone NOT to put travel restrictions on China at the very outset. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Senior Player

[candide]

2 hours ago, Senior Player said:

It seems to me that the majority of people have forgotten that it was the director-general of WHO, Dr. Tedros Adhanom, that said: “The WHO doesn’t recommend and actually opposes any restrictions for travel and trade or other measures against China. If anyone is thinking about taking measures, it’s going to be wrong.” In case you forgot, this was said on February 2nd when Trump and Israel put in place strict travel restrictions on China and were immediately slapped down by Dr. Tedros and his WHO cohorts for going against his CCP paymasters. Had every world government actually been advised by Dr. Tedros and WHO to impose severe restrictions on flights and travel going to and from China and its territories this virus would have been far easier to contain and not spread so exponentially as we now have it. Thanks to WHO dithering and wasting valuable time dreaming up a new name for coronavirus that doesn't offend China, and refusing to call it an epidemic when everyone else knew it was, we now have a situation that has grown steadily out of hand. I also find it both laughable and lamentable that Dr. Tedros has only just found his voice in the past few days when it has affected Europe, and was quick to pass judgement on any western government that he feels isn't doing enough to halt the spread. If Dr. Tedros really wants to know where the problem first emanated from, then he need only hold up a mirror to find his answer.

 

Had the world taken multilateral action against China on correct advice given by WHO back in late January and not anti-CCP propaganda, we would've had more time to prepare, but everything was being downplayed by these CCP collaborators with accusations of xenophobia on anyone that dared to oppose the WHO's incompetent and questionable view. 

 

Of course, there's no turning back the clock, but please remember that it was WHO and Dr. Tedros that told everyone NOT to put travel restrictions on China at the very outset. 

Practically, it's not that simple. Firstly, the Chinese already started to go on new year holiday and contaminate other countries from Jan 25. Secondly, a lot of countries, I.e. In Europe, still imposed a ban early February. Thirdly, it did not really work for the US either. 

A travel ban may possibly have worked, but it would have been needed much earlier than in February.

 

[Crazy Alex]

3 hours ago, Senior Player said:

It seems to me that the majority of people have forgotten that it was the director-general of WHO, Dr. Tedros Adhanom, that said: “The WHO doesn’t recommend and actually opposes any restrictions for travel and trade or other measures against China. If anyone is thinking about taking measures, it’s going to be wrong.” In case you forgot, this was said on February 2nd when Trump and Israel put in place strict travel restrictions on China and were immediately slapped down by Dr. Tedros and his WHO cohorts for going against his CCP paymasters. Had every world government actually been advised by Dr. Tedros and WHO to impose severe restrictions on flights and travel going to and from China and its territories this virus would have been far easier to contain and not spread so exponentially as we now have it. Thanks to WHO dithering and wasting valuable time dreaming up a new name for coronavirus that doesn't offend China, and refusing to call it an epidemic when everyone else knew it was, we now have a situation that has grown steadily out of hand. I also find it both laughable and lamentable that Dr. Tedros has only just found his voice in the past few days when it has affected Europe, and was quick to pass judgement on any western government that he feels isn't doing enough to halt the spread. If Dr. Tedros really wants to know where the problem first emanated from, then he need only hold up a mirror to find his answer.

 

Had the world taken multilateral action against China on correct advice given by WHO back in late January and not anti-CCP propaganda, we would've had more time to prepare, but everything was being downplayed by these CCP collaborators with accusations of xenophobia on anyone that dared to oppose the WHO's incompetent and questionable view. 

 

Of course, there's no turning back the clock, but please remember that it was WHO and Dr. Tedros that told everyone NOT to put travel restrictions on China at the very outset. 

Late January. Interesting. That's when Trump imposed travel restrictions on people coming from or who had been to China. Good thing he didn't listen to the nut cases at WHO- a useless organization.

[URMySunshine]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

Late January. Interesting. That's when Trump imposed travel restrictions on people coming from or who had been to China. Good thing he didn't listen to the nut cases at WHO- a useless organization.

Oh yes comrade Trump the paragon of pandemic virtue and a medical genius to boot. He stopped the epidemic in the Us in its tracks and got the stock market to roar to new heights....

Edited March 15, 2020 by URMySunshine

[JHolmesJr]

22 hours ago, URMySunshine said:

China is sending stuff and experts though.

 

Do they want a medal for that? There the ones responsible for this whole

catastrophe to begin with.

[URMySunshine]

21 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Do they want a medal for that? There the ones responsible for this whole

catastrophe to begin with.

Not wishing to let them off the hook but they are the largest country in the world by far , relatively poor by average US standards and if a virus is going to emerge is likely to be there. Anyway the issue is now how countries can best help their people through this dreadful period. We are all human and the virus doesn't respect race or borders. 

[Crazy Alex]

1 hour ago, URMySunshine said:

Oh yes comrade Trump the paragon of pandemic virtue and a medical genius to boot. He stopped the epidemic in the Us in its tracks and got the stock market to roar to new heights....

When you don't have a rational rebuttal, make <deleted> up about what your adversary says. Old trick. Ineffective. Try harder.

[URMySunshine]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

When you don't have a rational rebuttal, make <deleted> up about what your adversary says. Old trick. Ineffective. Try harder.

Says you the master of deflection  na na na na na

 

 

< some nonsensical posts and their replies have been deleted !>

Edited March 15, 2020 by URMySunshine

[overherebc]

The EU has just issued a directive that medical PPE can only be exported from the EU with a special licence that has to applied for from now on. As the UK is not quite out yet I assume it applies to UK as well.

Good idea I think..

[overherebc]

11 hours ago, URMySunshine said:

Not wishing to let them off the hook but they are the largest country in the world by far , relatively poor by average US standards and if a virus is going to emerge is likely to be there. Anyway the issue is now how countries can best help their people through this dreadful period. We are all human and the virus doesn't respect race or borders. 

I would imagine that no matter what has/will been/be done there will be a 50/50 split on opinions ref' it's not enough being done and  too much is being done. Those two different opinions will be based on who you support/voted for. If you voted for Boris in the UK 'he's doing his best' if you voted for Jeremy 'the gov' isn't doing enough'

[URMySunshine]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

The EU has just issued a directive that medical PPE can only be exported from the EU with a special licence that has to applied for from now on. As the UK is not quite out yet I assume it applies to UK as well.

Good idea I think..

Things are pretty bad on the medical front lines. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/15/hospitals-could-run-short-oxygen-within-hours-pandemic-escalates/

 

Top intensive care specialists have warned that Britain is not ready for the coronavirus crisis, with the ‘overwhelmed’ NHS in danger of running out of protective clothing, drugs, beds and oxygen supplies.

In a special webinar organised by the Association of Anaesthetists, watched by around 1,000 medics this weekend, experts admitted that there was not enough equipment or staff available to fight the crisis.

The experts predicted that a hospital with 10 patients with coronavirus would run out of the crucial sedation drug propofol within 11 days and alfentanil - a painkiller and anaesthetic - in less than 24 hours. They also warned that there was already a national shortage of opioid fentanyl. 

 

[Mulambana]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:24 PM, daveAustin said:

Europe is keen on reporting is what it's all about. Meanwhile, what's happening in China and India with that vast mass of people? SEA also ominously hush hush. It is so under-reported here (thighland). 

Europe, USA, UK none of them are reporting all. Infection rate is 10-20 times more than what is reported. Are you kidding me? With a open border, they are able to contain it waving a migic wand of Merlin? I do beleive India's number because they have closed all borders early in March and put a complete travel ban, inclduing for permanent Indian residents. Only citizens are allowed in. That's the only way to contain it. No other means can contain it. Thailand should immediately close its borders and put a complete travel ban for UK, Europe, and USA if they want it not to get out of control. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Mulambana

[candide]

17 minutes ago, Mulambana said:

Europe, USA, UK none of them are reporting all. Infection rate is 10-20 times more than what is reported. Are you kidding me? With a open border, they are able to contain it waving a migic wand of Merlin? I do beleive India's number because they have closed all borders early in March and put a complete travel ban, inclduing for permanent Indian residents. Only citizens are allowed in. That's the only way to contain it. No other means can contain it. Thailand should immediately close its borders and put a complete travel ban for UK, Europe, and USA if they want it not to get out of control. 

It's too late for Thailand. They already let in too many Chinese, Koreans, etc...

[Opl]

Link to the SCMP article:

Coronavirus: China’s first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17

Edited March 16, 2020 by Opl