'How did things end up like this?' America's newly unemployed grapple with coronavirus fallout

[BritManToo]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Some societies still value the elderly.

You sound like a person who is OK with death because you have not had a good life.

I seem to be happier than most old folk near my age.

Maybe I'm OK with death because I've done way more in life.

[metisdead]

Posts in violation of fair use policy as well as posts containing unattributed content have been removed:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I'm not arguing the logic is valid, just saying what I think it is.

Not sure i can agree the rationale is electoral, there are more poor people than rich, and they have votes. Although I suppose in America voter turnout is another factor.

Well, there are a lot more employed workers than unemployed. And it's those unemployed workers who the money should be going to. As well as those in poverty. In the UK  laid off workers will be getting 80% of their pay. Of course, Boris Johnson isn't running for reelection in November.

First for reasons of human decency and second because it will provide a bigger boost to the economy.

Edited March 21, 2020 by bristolboy

[Tug]

19 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Well a lot of us are interested in hearing what OUR President has to say, so maybe you should put him on ignore if he raises such irrational hate in you that you post something about him in every topic (except about Thailand, where I suspect you have never been to)

We owne a home in Thailand though retired I’m very busy here in the states with my property’s and hobby’s my Thai wife of 36 years do spend time in Thailand personally I prefer the states lots to do and I love doing it you really need to stop the hate stuff it’s getting old it’s true I think trump is the greatest threat our democracy has faced since 1862 I’m intitled to my opinion same as you stay safe and good health 

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, Tug said:

you really need to stop the hate stuff

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.

 

I guess imitation is the sincerest part of flattery.

 

I leave the membership to decide who the haters are, although the vast bulk of them avoid this part of the Forum.

[Tug]

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.

 

I guess imitation is the sincerest part of flattery.

 

I leave the membership to decide who the haters are, although the vast bulk of them avoid this part of the Forum.

Sigh........

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.

 

I guess imitation is the sincerest part of flattery.

 

I leave the membership to decide who the haters are, although the vast bulk of them avoid this part of the Forum.

By all means leave it to the membership to decide. You've already made your self-serving decision. It's time to stop alleging unproveable things like posters' motives and to address facts instead. Your allegations are such a cheap and obvious ploy.

[sukhumvitneon]

31 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I seem to be happier than most old folk near my age.

Maybe I'm OK with death because I've done way more in life.

You're probably happy because you're not living in a western country

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Well, there are a lot more employed workers than unemployed. And it's those unemployed workers who the money should be going to. As well as those in poverty. In the UK  laid off workers will be getting 80% of their pay. Of course, Boris Johnson isn't running for reelection in November.

First for reasons of human decency and second because it will provide a bigger boost to the economy.

Basically this is a hyper accelerated dry run of what the economy would look like in 10-15 years anyway, when 15%-40% of all jobs disappear due to automation. It would be better to establish a UBI now before the fact rather than to wait too long till when problems have already arisen. Untold misery and deprivation could be alleviated. I'm not advocating for that this minute but when the economy gets even somewhat back on it's feet a VAT that funds a UBI should be implemented. Exempting of course, food and other basic human necessities.

[englishoak]

Quote

'How did things end up like this?'

In short ? Chinas lies.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, englishoak said:

In short ? Chinas lies.

 

Yes, but I think everyone sort of knows that's their modus operandi. It was the assurances given by our own leaders, both political and in the business world that suckered us into swallowing something which we knew probably wasn't good for us. It was good for them though.

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, englishoak said:

In short ? Chinas lies.

Hiding behind those narrative for your own adequacies and failures. Your President dropped the ball. 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

In short ? Chinas lies.

One of the contributing factors. e.g. It's now come light that US intelligence agencies warned trump  of the virus impact within China and spread to other countries in January and February, which he dismissed.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/index.html

[frantick]

I'm with@BritManToo. I don't have a death wish, but I'm in the suseptible group and think mother nature should take its course and cull the herd. I'm surprised the biggest worriers are the same ones complaining about climate change and overpopulation.

 

As for the government, and business not taking care of us, anyone expecting that has learned nothing in life. Had many jobs growing up; all prone to layoffs. Did them even though I hated it because we needed the money. At 28 found a college I could afford in a possibly boring major but one that would pay the bills. Learned early on to seek stable, enjoyable employment and start saving for a rainy day.

 

I used to frequent a couple bars in the States and was long time casual friends with many young bartenders and servers. They don't save a dime. They go on multiple trips every year even with college debt, new cars, babies, etc. Live for today. I didn't take my first airplane flight until I was way into my 30s. Didn't buy a house until 31 and enjoyed my job which was stable.

 

Yeah, I had an early life some might call boring, but chances are you live long enough to enjoy smart (basic) money management. 

 

There is unemployment compensation for those that didn't change jobs every month.

 

Yeah, yeah, walked uphill 5 miles to school every day, blah, blah.

 

I'll say it for you, ”Ok Boomer".

[Nyezhov]

Just now, simple1 said:

One of the contributing factors. e.g. It's now come light that US intelligence agencies warned trump  of the virus impact within China and spread to other countries in January and February, which he dismissed.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/index.html

You mean that there are allegations in the anti Trump press based on anonymous "intelligence" sources. Yep. Im convinced. its not Chinas fault, its Trumps.

 

 

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I seem to be happier than most old folk near my age.

Maybe I'm OK with death because I've done way more in life.

@Lacessit dude, seriously, the BritMan comes off in person as one totally happy and content dude. Life is great!

[Monomial]

33 minutes ago, simple1 said:

One of the contributing factors. e.g. It's now come light that US intelligence agencies warned trump  of the virus impact within China and spread to other countries in January and February, which he dismissed.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/index.html

 

This reminds me of the many arguments that start with "But, if only X had done this....".  The problem isn't with any single person. The problem is with our economic dogma.  We worship "efficiency" at the expense of resiliency. This isn't anything shocking to those who paid attention. People have railed against this for the last 50 years to deaf ears by mainstream economists, corporatists and politicians. The entire system is simply incapable of accepting any shock. If we had accepted less efficiency during the last decades, if we had maintained a manufacturing economy making things that people need even at higher prices, rather than importing those necessities from China and leaving everyone else to do "services", so many people would not be out of work now.

 

The entire economy and our economic principles are fundamentally flawed, and everyone who is paying attention knows this. Many just don't want to admit it, because we have so much invested in our economy that it is painful to change. Trump is only a symptom, not the disease itself. Modern capitalism is a dying religion. Many here are still true believers, insisting that there is no alternative other than "evil" socialism, but of course, that is just nonsense. The binary nature of economics was a dogma spread throughout the world by the sieve of the cold war, and what we have today is the result. There are numerous other choices we can make that prioritize and value things other than maximum efficiency with zero regard for resiliency. But none of those are compatible with modern capitalism.

 

But just wait 'til the fanatical followers of capitalism get a hold of this comment. Watch the frothing and foaming at the mouth that results, and you will see that religious indoctrination is not limited to theistical realms.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Monomial

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

You mean that there are allegations in the anti Trump press based on anonymous "intelligence" sources. Yep. Im convinced. its not Chinas fault, its Trumps.

 

 

Did it ever occur to you that it's possible for it to be both their fault? And it was very early on that it was clear China was lying about the disease. 

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

This reminds me of the many arguments that start with "But, if only X had done this....".  The problem isn't with any single person. The problem is with our economic dogma.  We worship "efficiency" at the expense of resiliency. This isn't anything shocking to those who paid attention. People have railed against this for the last 50 years to deaf ears by mainstream economists, corporatists and politicians. The entire system is simply incapable of accepting any shock. If we had accepted less efficiency during the last decades, if we had maintained a manufacturing economy making things that people need even at higher prices, rather than importing those necessities from China and leaving everyone else to do "services", so many people would not be out of work now.

 

The entire economy and our economic principles are fundamentally flawed, and everyone who is paying attention knows this. Many just don't want to admit it, because we have so much invested in our economy that it is painful to change. Trump is only a symptom, not the disease itself. Modern capitalism is a dying religion. Many here are still true believers, insisting that there is no alternative other than "evil" socialism, but of course, that is just nonsense. The binary nature of economics was a dogma spread throughout the world by the seive of the cold war, and what we have today is the result. There are numerous other choices we can make that prioritize and value things other than maximum efficiency with zero regard for resiliency. But none of those are compatible with modern capitalism.

 

But just wait 'til the fanatical followers of capitalism get a hold of this comment. Watch the frothing and foaming at the mouth that results, and you will see that religious indoctrination is not limited to theistical realms.

 

 

Interesting observations. I disagree trump is only a 'symptom'. trump had the opportunity to be a change agent for good which IMO he has failed to be.

[nausea]

The gig economy is great until things go wrong. Usually you get paid over and above what regular workers get. They lose money for security and a pension, you gain money for taking a chance. Tough sh#t if it goes wrong. I knew guys who were funding their travels in the 2000s through working the gig economy in local government in the UK. I've been in both environments, mostly, I'd say, a talented guy or gal, is gonna get offered a permanent job. After that, it's up to you. You have to make a decision, what is worth more, getting staiď in one job, with a guaranteed income and pension, or continuing your adventure. Being 70, in some foreign country, ill, sick, and with no means of support is no joke. And the chances are you will get ill, you will get sick. Dying on the job is a bit of a myth. 

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, nausea said:

The gig economy is great until things go wrong. Usually you get paid over and above what regular workers get. They lose money for security and a pension, you gain money for taking a chance. Tough sh#t if it goes wrong. I knew guys who were funding their travels in the 2000s through working the gig economy in local government in the UK. I've been in both environments, mostly, I'd say, a talented guy or gal, is gonna get offered a permanent job. After that, it's up to you. You have to make a decision, what is worth more, getting staiď in one job, with a guaranteed income and pension, or continuing your adventure. Being 70, in some foreign country, ill, sick, and with no means of support is no joke. And the chances are you will get ill, you will get sick. Dying on the job is a bit of a myth. 

Except for the huge fact of the zero hour thing.

[nausea]

30 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Except for the huge fact of the zero hour thing.

No zero hours in the 2000s, we were sought after. I would imagine the same thing is happening now, for those with the right skills. I'd go back home to help out, but life is too easy here, and my SO and dogs need me.

Edited March 21, 2020 by nausea

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Off topic, I am savoring the irony of politicians who have been pooh-poohing the consensus from scientists on climate change now screaming at the same profession to hurry up with a vaccine.

OK Boss, well let me know when you can Catscan and genetically sequence the climate and then we could perhaps even think of giving credit to that analogy. At least with The Chinese Flu you can blame something else other than the air or the last hysterical fit you threw when you triple bogeyed a par 3 in front of an audience for keeping you off the links.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Nyezhov

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

OK Boss, well let me know when you can Catscan and genetically sequence the climate and then we could perhaps even think of giving credit to that analogy. At least with The Chinese Flu you can blame something else other than the air or the last hysterical fit you threw when you triple bogeyed a par 3 in front of an audience for keeping you off the links.

And once again we see why Trump and his fellow travelers found it so easy to ignore the scientific consensus for so long.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

OK Boss, well let me know when you can Catscan and genetically sequence the climate and then we could perhaps even think of giving credit to that analogy. At least with The Chinese Flu you can blame something else other than the air or the last hysterical fit you threw when you triple bogeyed a par 3 in front of an audience for keeping you off the links.

Lose my rag on the golf course? Moi? Although one of my now deceased golfing friends did state I had the personality of a taipan when there.

You're calling it the Chinese flu, bad boy. How do you know I didn't introduce it there at the behest of the CIA? After all, Trump is trying to win a trade war.

If you don't think man is changing the climate, come up to Chiang Rai and breathe some air. Sorry, I forgot - we can't move due to coronavirus fallout - anywhere.

[Nyezhov]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

How do you know I didn't introduce it there at the behest of the CIA?

I see like so many others, you have fallen for Chinese disinformation. Bet you read and beleive the Steele dossier and  Area 51 videos too, or that rock you got out there in Oz, Ayres rock? Is that where aliens come from?.

 

America will be just fine. Buckle up and ride it out. Wont be food riots or none of that, its all gonna be cool so dont you worry. And you are doing well I assume? I just suffered and cleaned 2 kilos of shrimp. Even deveined the suckers.

[URMySunshine]

On 3/20/2020 at 4:16 AM, zydeco said:

Because of debt. The virus only popped the debt bubble. For 11 years the American economy thrived on cheap money, QE, corporate debt, and consumer debt. Nobody saved. Why? Because the Fed destroyed people's savings with low interest rates. Everytime there was a hiccup in the economy, the Fed and the government lowered rates, printed more money, and told people to go out and "Buy!" So they did. And put it all on their credit cards at 20 percent interest rates. And corporations did the same. Took out loans and used the money to buy back their own shares to artificially inflate their stock price and get bigger executive bonuses. No investment in R&D. No new products. Otherwise, Boeing, for example, would have designed a new passenger jet from scratch, instead of going the cheap route and reworking the 737 into that Frankenstein's monster, the 737 MAX. The economy became financialized. And built on debt. $23.5 trillion in US debt, and Trump and Congress have just tacked on around another $8 trillion in the past four days. The rest of the world did the same thing. Over $250 trillion in global debt. Sorry, Abigail, the US government, the global bureaucrats, the bankers, and the CEOs just consider you roadkill on the way to lining their pockets.

And we pumped up China with trillions of dollars and expertise and even MAGA hats where made there. Looks like the party's over and the world is just getting the bill. Chinese civilization has lasted 3000 years the US more like 300. Do the math. Thailand will get help and go into the China camp lock stock and smoking barrel. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by URMySunshine

[englishoak]

6 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Hiding behind those narrative for your own adequacies and failures. Your President dropped the ball. 

 

You unable to read names ? Im English,we dont have a president.. where did it originate ? oh yea... China, who pretended to the world for 2 months it wasnt an issue ? China, who literally put doctors trying to let the world know  in prison before letting them out again to treat the pandemic and one at least died because of it ? China....  

 

Dont wee down my back and tell me its raining bud, we know where the Chinese flu came from. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by englishoak

[samran]

1 hour ago, englishoak said:

 

You unable to read names ? Im English,we dont have a president.. where did it originate ? oh yea... China, who pretended to the world for 2 months it wasnt an issue ? China, who literally put doctors trying to let the world know  in prison before letting them out again to treat the pandemic and one at least died because of it ? China....  

 

Dont wee down my back and tell me its raining bud, we know where the Chinese flu came from. 

Not that the facts of what happened in China is wrong, but it is being exploited but the dog whistlers in western society, for a number of reasons. 

 

The first, is simply to perpetuate the narrative of ‘other’ which is central any populist politicians bag of verbage. And we’ve seen what that leads to, random asians being beat up walking down the street, abused etc. These politicians will swear black and blue that their usage of these terms doesn’t enable the attackers. Quite simply, it does.

 

Secondly though, it helps distract from their own failings in heeding the warnings of what was coming: a highly contagious virus. 
 

Sure it came from China. But it could have come from Iceland for all that it matters, it would have spread one way or another and we’d be in exactly the same position we are now due to the virulence of this particular bug.