Grid tie in solar power, new changes or is it just me

[chilidog]

  2 days ago I had a PEA guy come change the meter at my house. Nothing was wrong with the old one the problem was 

my meter would run backwards. We told the guy its supposed to run backwards in the day because we have solar panels. He didn't 

really care and changed it to a new meter that could not run backwards. So my wife went to the head PEA office and finds out there was a new

head guy in charge. She spoke with the head guy and he says we are not allowed any where in Thailand a meter that would turn backwards with

a grid tie in solar system. We could put as much energy we want back into the grid but when we pull it out we pay for it papers or no papers. 

 

 This seems completely backwards way of thinking. I still use more than I make because I need to run air pumps all night and

is really gong to have an impact on my power bill. I know these things are different Provence to Provence, I was just wandering if 

anyone else that has solar with the same issue.

 

[Crossy]

Not yet, but I'm sure it's going to happen. At present we rarely actually go into export and when we do the meter does run backwards.

 

Do you have a system with approved inverters and an approved installer? 

 

When we spoke to PEA last year they told us that we are not allowed to spin the meter backwards, as an aside the supervisor told us not to let the meter reader see it going backwards (so export is disabled on the meter reading days).

 

When we expand our current system I'm going with a hybrid inverter with enough battery that we never actually export.

[bankruatsteve]

That is typical of Thai logic with some "officials".  Really sad. 

[Crossy]

How much solar do you have?

 

Something like this, with some LiPO4 batteries could be your solution but it's going to cost ????

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000467854991.html

 

 

Manual for the inverter Manuale_utente_inverter_ibrido_(EN).pdf

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, chilidog said:

 This seems completely backwards way of thinking.

the feed in tariff, if you can get onto it (few can), is less than ½ the price you pay for power so why would they permit you to get double price?

 

Had you asked here you would have known the result and avoided it.

[nobodysfriend]

On 3/20/2020 at 5:54 PM, Crossy said:

When we expand our current system I'm going with a hybrid inverter with enough battery that we never actually export.

Why not go off grid ?

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Why not go off grid ?

 

Why go off grid when there is abundant grid backup for when the sun shineth not.

 

It costs little if you don't use much grid power and it's there when you need it.

 

In reality, even with our available roof space filled we won't generate enough to cover our monthly usage.

 

EDIT Currently generating 1.6kW from our 8 panels, grid consumption is 95W, if I turn off the fan we will go into export. With the grandkids here (computers running) it's not going to happen.

 

[nobodysfriend]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Why go off grid when there is abundant grid backup for when the sun shineth not.

 

It costs little if you don't use much grid power and it's there when you need it.

 

In reality, even with our available roof space filled we won't generate enough to cover our monthly usage.

 

EDIT Currently generating 1.6kW from our 8 panels, grid consumption is 95W, if I turn off the fan we will go into export. With the grandkids here (computers running) it's not going to happen.

 

Don't you have batteries to store your power ?

I am off grid , have just enough panels and batteries for my daily consumption , if I need more , I will just connect a few  more panels and may be another battery . (Easy to do )

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

Don't you have batteries to store your power ?

 

No, we have a grid-tie system, any spare power goes into the grid and (currently) spins the meter backwards.

 

The plan is to remain grid-tie but with a hybrid inverter which does have batteries, any energy that would have been exported goes into the batteries to be recovered when the sun is insufficient.

 

The hybrid I'm looking at generally attempts to keep the grid load at zero when in "do not export" mode, topping up the power from the batteries as necessary (within the limits of the battery discharge %).

 

[bluejets]

Possibly because like most countries, smart meters are installed to watch the amount used as well as the amount fed back into the grid.

Reason being, two different rates. 

The one you use at x amount per unit and the amount you pump back in at maybe (x/4) per unit.

In Aus, we pay around 23.6c/unit for basic tariff 11 and feed back is 7.8c/unit.

[BritManToo]

On 3/20/2020 at 6:22 PM, Crossy said:

How much solar do you have?

 

Something like this, with some LiPO4 batteries could be your solution but it's going to cost ????

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000467854991.html

 

 

Manual for the inverter Manuale_utente_inverter_ibrido_(EN).pdf

I was looking at this one .......

https://www.solar-thailand.com/EN/Product.asp?Data1=WSKB-2000

 

Same game but a bit cheaper at 9kbht as it doesn't feed back to the grid.

(if your meter won't let you, no point in doing it)

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I was looking at this one .......

https://www.solar-thailand.com/EN/Product.asp?Data1=WSKB-2000

 

Same game but a bit cheaper at 9kbht

40 Amperes is not a lot . Only if you have few panels . Better buy 80 or 100 A Mppt ...?

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

40 Amperes is not a lot . Only if you have few panels . Better buy 80 or 100 A Mppt ...?

I'm of the opinion I'd rather have more smaller units (in case of failure).

The one I linked will take 3 solar panels in parallel. If you need more panels, get more units.

I could have 4 of Crossy's units using 12 x 330w panels for less money.

[nobodysfriend]

15 minutes ago, bluejets said:

we pay around 23.6c/unit for basic tariff 11 and feed back is 7.8c/unit.

They pay you 7.8cts and sell it for 23.6cts ... not really a fair price .

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

They pay you 7.8cts and sell it for 23.6cts ... not really a fair price .

 

Indeed, Thailand is similar and other countries are heading the same way.

 

This is, of course, the reason they don't want you spinning things backwards. The days of nice feed-in tariffs are sadly over.

 

[emptypockets]

16 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

They pay you 7.8cts and sell it for 23.6cts ... not really a fair price .

Really depends when you installed the PV system and where. I still get 44 cents per kWh feed in that's in Queensland. That rate has slowly been eroded of time for new installations when the government realised going green can cost them.

[Crossy]

UK average rate for electricity is about 15p, feed-in rate is about 5.25p for new installations.

 

[globin]

Yep, did the same thing to me recently.  I am furious with the typical hypocrisy.   And I am tired of hearing all the power company shills chiming in with their 1/2 baht.

[Crossy]

Those who have had exporting denied, do you have "legal" systems installed by approved installers using approved components?

 

Our system is most definitely not legal (DIY install, non-approved inverters).

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, globin said:

Yep, did the same thing to me recently.  I am furious with the typical hypocrisy.   And I am tired of hearing all the power company shills chiming in with their 1/2 baht.

If you understand the way the power grid and supply and control systems function you would know why the grid power costs more than the price they are willing to pay you as a feed-in tariff. 

 

it is not a simple I pay X per kWh so I should be payed X per kWh that I export.
 

Now how much less than X is reasonable, is a completely different discussion but that you should be paid X-(an amount that enables grid control systems, these include power stations, to function) is absolutely correct.

 

Are you willing to do the work needed to understand the subject and reasons or would you like to continue to blindly whine about a fake perceived injustice? 
 

Whining could get featured on r/EntitledPeople

[roodujardin]

I had an excellent system in Aus, bought when the time was politically right and ended up with a grid tie system that yielded grid neutral performance. 

 

Looked at it here but decided to avoid the hassle with a messy system. After 10 years my electricity bill has slowly increased, it got me thinking about it again. 

 

Decided to go with an off grid system but keep our supply as well. The only devices I'm not covering is our water heaters and well pump. The system drives everything else. 

 

Happy with the overall performance, has reduced our power bill to 300b or reduced by around 80%.

 

Batteries and panels from Thailand, everything else from China. Sourcing parts can be an issue if DIY. 

 

 

[Sydebolle]

Could anyone list some of these offers for solar power grids without battery please?

I'd like to run my swimming pool pump (2 x 4 hours/daily) during the day only, so panels and inverters should do?

Thank you for your input/feed-back ????