Australian pensioners $750 ???

[Will27]

1 hour ago, pdtokyo said:

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

well they may be expats but that does not mean they do not spend money back home in Australia.  They may have tax liabilities, businesses, employees, alimony, child support, properties, etc.  I guess it depends exactly on how one defines an expat.

 

Regardless of their income or pension status there's also an argument that expats are saving Oz money on healthcare etc services they are not tying up ... especially valuable now ... every ICU bed is precious ... and also consider that most retired expats have pricy private health cover (how many via Oz insurers?)

I seriously doubt that most expats would be insured TBH.

Some for sure but a lot would be self insured and a fair few would have nothing IMO.

[AussieBob18]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect AB.

And keeping a residence doesn't mean you're necessarily a resident either.

if someone has an apartment in Oz and spends 1 or 2 weeks a year in it, and

the rest in Thailand, good luck trying to prove that you're a resident for tax purposes.

Sorry - I said it the wrong way - you are right.  How it works (last involved in all this in 2014 but have contacts/friends/family still in Canberra) Immigration provides to CLink and ATO, and any other relevent Federal Agency, details of all Australians (Passport) who have left the country for an overseas destination, and when they return.  When someone has been overseas for 2 years and has not returned to Australia, the ATO system raises a red flag.  The ATO checks that person's tax returns and other information (Clink etc.), with the view to deciding if they are still a resident for tax purposes.  If they decide they are now a non-resident for tax purposes, they send a letter to their last known address and to their mygov/ato email adress and advise them of their decision, and that they have x number of days to show/prove they are not a non-resident.  Anyone that leaves and wants to be a non-resident for tax purposes usually tells the ATO before/after leaving - the ATO does a check and advises if they agree or disagree.  Many people want to remain a resident for tax purposes (eg. earning rental income) so that they have the tax free threshold - which you lose if you are a non-resident. 

  

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

good luck trying to prove that you're a resident for tax purposes

You're confusing "ordinarily resident" and "tax resident". The latter is a quite specific term relating to where you receive your income and which jurisdiction is entitled to tax it. It has nothing to do with where you live. The Thailand-Australia Double Tax Treaty will determine your tax residence, but the default position of the ATO is that if your sole source of income is Australia you are a tax resident of Australia even if you are not ordinarily resident in Australia

[AussieBob18]

5 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

O i see ...

 

but to be clear ... it's not an age pension that you're talking about ... it's some other kind of pension and it stops automatically after 6 weeks out of country and restarts automatically when you return to Oz.

 

Is that right?

correct. all other clink support payments will stop after 6 weeks. excemptions are for portable pensions and some diasability pensions and for medical treatments not available in australia and for special circumstances (family tragedies/deaths).

[Will27]

20 minutes ago, pdtokyo said:

Really? I haven't run a poll or anything but certainly a lot of people seem to mention having their own insurance (as part of the mandatory grizzle about having to fork out for mandatory Thai insurance). But again i bow to local knowledge.

 

My general point though, is that an expat, especially an old non-working expat, is taking a load off the working/tax-paying Oz population ... when i get to be Oz PM (i'm 6,546,667th in succession for the job) then all old sick feeble or deranged expats will get regular $250 handouts to stay where they are.

 

Regardless of their viral load.

Mandatory insurance is only for the O-A visas.

I suspect the majority of retiree's here are on Non-immi visas.

 

I agree with your argument in principle though about expats

not being a burden on the Oz health system.

[AussieBob18]

19 minutes ago, pdtokyo said:

Really? I haven't run a poll or anything but certainly a lot of people seem to mention having their own insurance (as part of the mandatory grizzle about having to fork out for mandatory Thai insurance). But again i bow to local knowledge.

 

My general point though, is that an expat, especially an old non-working expat, is taking a load off the working/tax-paying Oz population ... when i get to be Oz PM (i'm 6,546,667th in succession for the job) then all old sick feeble or deranged expats will get regular $250 handouts to stay where they are.

 

Regardless of their viral load.

Mate - you must know someone important - I am 24,600,000th in line ????

 

What you said is a fact - a Senate report detailed exactly that fact about 2008/9 - Expats living overseas saves the Aust taxpayers money overall - and that includes those that do return when they get very old/sick. But it was buried because it is political poison to give those living overseas the same amount as those living in Australia - and they get political points for denying them the same money and other benefits.  And the big one, is that they can 'save' the taxpayer in the Budget by cutting payments and services to those living overseas - because they can ignore the long term benefits as they are not counted in the Budget. 

[AussieBob18]

19 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

You're confusing "ordinarily resident" and "tax resident". The latter is a quite specific term relating to where you receive your income and which jurisdiction is entitled to tax it. It has nothing to do with where you live. The Thailand-Australia Double Tax Treaty will determine your tax residence, but the default position of the ATO is that if your sole source of income is Australia you are a tax resident of Australia even if you are not ordinarily resident in Australia

Not necessarily true.  Because if you are making money in Aus, and are a non-resident for tax, then you have no tax free threshold and they can tax you from dollar $1AUD earned.  However, those able to work and pay taxes in the overseas country have some leeway to remain a resident for tax purposes - but it is very much about individual circumstances as to which way they decide.

 

[samran]

1 hour ago, pdtokyo said:

his question was not about the validity of the Medicare card ... he has his eyes on the $750 ... and that is determined (in part) by concession cards, nothing to do with Medicare.

Kind of was: 

” I understand being a holder of Medicare Card u have to be a resident 

Please correct me if the above is wrong“

 

I was addressing that part of his question.

Edited March 25, 2020 by samran

[Will27]

37 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

You're confusing "ordinarily resident" and "tax resident". The latter is a quite specific term relating to where you receive your income and which jurisdiction is entitled to tax it. It has nothing to do with where you live. The Thailand-Australia Double Tax Treaty will determine your tax residence, but the default position of the ATO is that if your sole source of income is Australia you are a tax resident of Australia even if you are not ordinarily resident in Australia

I'm not confusing anything.

 

Myself and others have had hashed this residency issue out with you previously

in the All Aussie Related subforum.

 

You were asked to provide direct links and refused to do so.

But if you want to bang it out again, take it to the other forum

and I'll meet you there.

[Will27]

53 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Sorry - I said it the wrong way - you are right.  How it works (last involved in all this in 2014 but have contacts/friends/family still in Canberra) Immigration provides to CLink and ATO, and any other relevent Federal Agency, details of all Australians (Passport) who have left the country for an overseas destination, and when they return.  When someone has been overseas for 2 years and has not returned to Australia, the ATO system raises a red flag.  The ATO checks that person's tax returns and other information (Clink etc.), with the view to deciding if they are still a resident for tax purposes.  If they decide they are now a non-resident for tax purposes, they send a letter to their last known address and to their mygov/ato email adress and advise them of their decision, and that they have x number of days to show/prove they are not a non-resident.  Anyone that leaves and wants to be a non-resident for tax purposes usually tells the ATO before/after leaving - the ATO does a check and advises if they agree or disagree.  Many people want to remain a resident for tax purposes (eg. earning rental income) so that they have the tax free threshold - which you lose if you are a non-resident. 

  

AB

 

I think someone has been giving you incorrect information on this one.

Centrelink have access to movements from the Immigration database for clients

going in and out of the country for their purposes.

 

AFAIK, Immigration doesn't provide the ATO with movements at all.

Immigration doesn't actually have a record of all people who leave and don't 

return after two years. That would be an incredibly hard, not to mention futile

exercise. Think about it, thousands of people leaving everyday.

Sure they can search for an individual if required, but they cannot just push a button

using those parameters.

 

The ATO would be deluged with information they don't require.

And how would they check without a TFN?

800 John Smiths can leave the country.

 

I have not heard of anyone receiving a letter from the ATO to prove residency

unless they're under investigation/audit.

 

Like I said previously, I don't think targeting retiree's on smallish incomes

is on the ATO's agenda.

[deej]

47 minutes ago, samran said:

Kind of was: 

” I understand being a holder of Medicare Card u have to be a resident 

Please correct me if the above is wrong“

 

I was addressing that part of his question.

Many thks

Yes my eyes are on the Money LOL

but 

IMHO holding a Medicare Card one has to be a resident therefore the Money 750 bucks should come tumbling in UUUMMM ???

in addition us Pre 2003 Gang received Rudd.s  handout around 2008/9 as we were grandfathered in by the Howard Govt new legistrations on residency pensioner laws etc etc and Rudd.s had no alternative but to include us expats  in the pay out 

hoping and i mean hoping that Sco Mo has to do the same But???????

[deej]

2 minutes ago, pdtokyo said:

 

When i look for a question, i find the "?" and read everything to the left of that. But that's just me.

I don't think reinforcing his confusion between medicare and Concession cards is helpful, but again that's just me.

His subsequent post indicates that confusion is still there. But that's just him.

 

Thks

No mention of the Pre 2003 Gang from you 

I went through the hurdles with my financial advisor back in those days and indeed it was heavy stuff

i was releived of my Disabilty Pension due to be too long residing in Thailand  but on appeal  was allowed  back on with appologys i might add  plus had to fly back to Sydney to be reinstated  

All due to be Grand fathered  in Howards new laws and legistrations Lol

hence the Nic of Pre 2003 Gang

 

 

 

[AussieBob18]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

AB

I think someone has been giving you incorrect information on this one.

Centrelink have access to movements from the Immigration database for clients

going in and out of the country for their purposes.

AFAIK, Immigration doesn't provide the ATO with movements at all.

Immigration doesn't actually have a record of all people who leave and don't 

return after two years. That would be an incredibly hard, not to mention futile

exercise. Think about it, thousands of people leaving everyday.

Sure they can search for an individual if required, but they cannot just push a button

using those parameters.

The ATO would be deluged with information they don't require.

And how would they check without a TFN?

800 John Smiths can leave the country.

I have not heard of anyone receiving a letter from the ATO to prove residency

unless they're under investigation/audit.

Like I said previously, I don't think targeting retiree's on smallish incomes

is on the ATO's agenda.

Could be wrong - but I dont think so.  Immigration provides the details of all Australians that have left or entered the country to several agencies - including CLink and ATO.  What they do with that information is their own concern and not Immigration's and you are correct they dont monitor that at all - they only advise exists and entries (and a few other things in certain security circumstances), plus theose Agencies can request more details on any individual if they are authorised (destination etc.). 

CLink and ATO both flag those exists and entries in their own systems - it is done automatically. 

Many years ago they all had seperate disparate systems, but post 9/11 there was a major ramp up of inter-Agency information sharing that took years and is still ongoing - I was there and a part of that.  Information sharing has been legally upgraded and expanded (Passport, TFN, CRN, DL, Medicare, etc.) and the systems are now in place to make that happen.  That is why you can now verify your identity online nowadays. 

You are right in that the ATO doesn't target retirees (unless something gives them cause - eg. dobbed in) - the system flags it automatically and somone looks at it.  If you are earning income in Aust in certain ways, that information is often provided to ATO automatically (including Banks, Super Funds, etc etc). 

I know of two people that have been advised by ATO that they are 'now considered a non-resident for tax purposes'.  One accepted it (got away with it for 2 years), and the other appealed and lost.  

[pookondee]

On 3/23/2020 at 5:46 PM, Trentham said:

I hope expats do not get it. it is meant to boost the Australian economy - not Thailand's

Really, it beats me why the OP would even ask such a question.

Any Aussie whos spent time out of the country knows for years the Aus government has had a hard about Aussies spending AU$ overseas.

They will kick you off medicare, take away your tax free thresh-hold and there is plenty of unfair taxing (capital gains tax) of assets if you are a non-resident..

while you are not even using any Aus services.

 

Im sure many governments will be happy that citizens have been more or less forced to return home over all this.

More they control and have as tax payers and debt slaves.

Very convenient that!

 

[sceadugenga]

OK, the $750 referred to in the heading is the topic for discussion here so lets keep it at that.

 

I'd only like to add that since the systematic trashing of the Aussie dollar (To help the export industries???) my Thai bank pension payment has dropped about 8000B a month in the last two years.

So they happily taketh away but giveth not....

 

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, pdtokyo said:

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

well they may be expats but that does not mean they do not spend money back home in Australia.  They may have tax liabilities, businesses, employees, alimony, child support, properties, etc.  I guess it depends exactly on how one defines an expat.

 

Regardless of their income or pension status there's also an argument that expats are saving Oz money on healthcare etc services they are not tying up ... especially valuable now ... every ICU bed is precious ... and also consider that most retired expats have pricy private health cover (how many via Oz insurers?)

You make a good point.  The expats are not putting wear and tear on the roads or sewer or other utility systems or other things.  That won't gain any ground but it is worth mentioning.

[PJPom]

Today is April 1 , Government payouts should start over the next few days, if any expat finds they are richer in the next few days please let us know. 

[ozfarang]

My $750 arrives 03/04/2020.

 

I was in Australia on the 12/03/2020, one of the requirements to receive the payment, and still in Australia for the short term.

[deej]

3 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

My $750 arrives 03/04/2020.

 

I was in Australia on the 12/03/2020, one of the requirements to receive the payment, and still in Australia for the short term.

Cobber may i ask how do u know it  is lobbing  on  3/4

not trying to put the mocker on u at all 

hope we all get it????

 

[ozfarang]

I've got a Centrelink app on my phone and it tells me next payment is on 03/04/2020

[deej]

5 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

I've got a Centrelink app on my phone and it tells me next payment is on 03/04/2020

Thks cobber

so its a seperate payment to your pension is that right ?

[ozfarang]

Yes, that's correct

[Lacessit]

On 3/23/2020 at 1:46 PM, Trentham said:

I hope expats do not get it. it is meant to boost the Australian economy - not Thailand's

You should apply for a job at Centrelink. They love employing miserable gits.

[deej]

Just now, ozfarang said:

Yes, that's correct

Again many thks

My chances of receiving it.

is as good. as tackling Lana Turner in the nude????

But at least i have got to Friday

 

 

[steven100]

On 3/23/2020 at 5:12 PM, PJPom said:

Thanks to all of you for information and it’s source, pity, it could have topped up the last few months of losses.

I get it 

[Olmate]

On 4/1/2020 at 4:22 PM, steven100 said:

I get it 

Pal been here  for years received his last Friday. He,s a vet too so not sure if that’s the reason.

[deej]

39 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Pal been here  for years received his last Friday. He,s a vet too so not sure if that’s the reason.

Being a Retired Vet qualifys automatically and correctly so 

they put their butts on the line when needed

Good luck to them

[deej]

Received my old age pension to morning

But no 750 bucks extra

No probs was  not  expecting it  anyway.

Always very happy to see my old age pension  drop in each month????

[Laza 45]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/when-you-should-get-your-jobseeker-coronavirus-payment/12161824

[Grumpy one]

I received a notice from C/link that I will be getting $750 placed in my bank on Thursday 23/4

Seeing as I have not been back in Aus for 2 years I don't understand the logic of the donation

I wont complain about it, just add it to my dwindling reserves