Trump considers reopening U.S. economy despite coronavirus spread

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Throatwobbler said:

Scientists are not even sure yet if recovering from Covid will give you immunity in the future and if it does for how long. The whole herd immunity thing is being based on assumption that it does.

That's true, there is no iron-clad certainty, but:

 

Prof Jon Cohen, emeritus professor of infectious diseases at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, said:

“However, it is very likely, based on other viral infections, that yes, once a person has had the infection they will generally be immune and won’t get it again. There will always be the odd exception, but that is certainly a reasonable expectation.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/the-big-question-over-coronavirus-can-a-person-get-it-twice

 

It's a reasonable assumption.

[JHolmesJr]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

guess folks in the US dont necessarily agree with you. 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

 

That was before his huge Town Hall on Fox yesterday. 

 

His approval not have shot through the roof...this per a poll reported by (of all people)...

wait for it....BLOOMBERG!

 

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-handling-coronavirus-approved-60-210556600.html

 

Good to see Americans not hoodwinked by the nasty folks at CNN, MSNBC etc.

 

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Throatwobbler said:

What you have to remember is that the numbers of cases will not start to fall as soon as it starts social distancing. It takes some time for the Covid numbers to start to drop. The number of new cases each day in Italy seems to be beginning to drop so it looks like the effects of social distancing has worked.

No, Italy's social distancing hasn't worked at all. What has worked for Italy was when they started testing, identifying and isolating the infected.

[riclag]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I actually believe he will open it up, but let governors do their own thing.

The markets are heading up again with the stimulus.

US markets usually are indicators of what things will be in 6 months.

By then, the virus will be gone (yes people will die), markets way up probably close to where they were, and Trump well on his way to getting re-elected. 

I am not saying I agree with it.  Just sayin though, I think the above will be the results.

You have nailed it! IMOP! Thanks

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I actually believe he will open it up, but let governors do their own thing.

The markets are heading up again with the stimulus.

US markets usually are indicators of what things will be in 6 months.

By then, the virus will be gone (yes people will die), markets way up probably close to where they were, and Trump well on his way to getting re-elected. 

I am not saying I agree with it.  Just sayin though, I think the above will be the results.

It's funny. One thing we can be sure quite sure about is that the coronavirus situation will increase the importance to Americans of having access to adequate health care. Particularly for those who are vulnerable. The Trump administration is supporting a lawsuit by several Republican states that if successful will eliminate affordable health care for people with pre-existing conditions. Whenever Trump is questioned about this he obfuscates in his own inimitable style. Health care was a huge issue that favored the Democrats in the 2018 midterms. Why do you think it won't be even huger in the 2020 elections? 

As far as I recall, no Trump supporter on thaivisa.com has even acknowledged this as an issue. 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by bristolboy

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

guess folks in the US dont necessarily agree with you. 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

 

That was before his huge Town Hall on Fox yesterday. 

So now you believe the polls?

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

I'd say, whilst regrettable, a number of 25 million dead would be in line with previous pandemics such as the Spanish flu.

 

Whether we want to accept it or not is irrelevant, we will have to.

It's a pity that no progress has been made in medical science since 1918. Otherwise we might expect better results.

[bristolboy]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The US economy has been due to crash. The powers that be were just waiting for a black swan event like this to enable the global financial reset.

 

It's not Trumps fault, yet those who don't like him will try to make it a political issue.

 

If the crash wasn't his fault does that mean that the economic improvements during his presidency also aren't due to him? Or does your formulation only apply to negative economic news?

[Logosone]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It's a pity that no progress has been made in medical science since 1918. Otherwise we might expect better results.

There has. 

 

That's why it could be 25 million, not 50 million like in the Spanish Flu pandemic.

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

His approval not have shot through the roof...this per a poll reported by (of all people)...

wait for it....BLOOMBERG!

 

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-handling-coronavirus-approved-60-210556600.html

 

Good to see Americans not hoodwinked by the nasty folks at CNN, MSNBC etc.

 

Yes I saw that one, I prefer the averages of RCP even though it includes the totally biased CNN....

[pixelaoffy]

24 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Yes I saw that one, I prefer the averages of RCP even though it includes the totally biased CNN....

If anyone had any intelligence they would know the dangerous nonsense the crook in the WH had been saying on this viral pandemic since January! It's a sad fact that his supporters believe him when he says black is white 

[Logosone]

Since 2015 this American has been predicting the pandemic. He warned we were not ready. Sadly, nobody listened.

 

 

He w

[riclag]

3 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

All of America has the choice to follow this historic President OR choose to follow good practices and probably have a better chance to survive.

SS recipients and retired people agree with you 100% imop

Time will tell what the people do who drive the economy Ma and Pa shops,especially.

Hygiene 2020 !!!!!

[lannarebirth]

41 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Since 2015 this American has been predicting the pandemic. He warned we were not ready. Sadly, nobody listened.

 

 

He w

 

Yes, and recently as yesterday he said the only way to get a handle on it is a 6-10 week lockdown.

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/shouldve-done-bill-gates-says-us-slow-covid-19-shutdown-now-unavoidable/

 

https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-dangers-of-relying-on-philanthropists-during-pandemics/

[bristolboy]

42 minutes ago, riclag said:

SS recipients and retired people agree with you 100% imop

Time will tell what the people do who drive the economy Ma and Pa shops,especially.

Hygiene 2020 !!!!!

Ma & Pa shops drive the economy? Really? That wasn't even true 30 years ago when shopping malls ruled. Now lots of them are defunct thanks to ecommerce.  

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

guess folks in the US dont necessarily agree with you. 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/public_approval_of_president_trumps_handling_of_the_coronavirus-7088.html

 

That was before his huge Town Hall on Fox yesterday. 

Approval of his handling of the corona crisis around 60%.  Overall approval of Trump still below 50%.   https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

 

This is a weak "rally around the President" affect.  After 9-11 Bush's approval went to 90%, even though he didn't do anything exceptional.  Of course he didn't do anything exceptionally stupid either, at least no right away.

Edited March 25, 2020 by heybruce

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Logosone said:

I understand it perfectly, but I am looking also at other factors which you ignore. 

 

We can take it as understood that hospitals and health workers will be overwhelmed for a short time, whatever happens. People in Italy were practising the most extreme social distancing and still their hospitals where overwhelmed.

 

In a country like the US the idea of mass testing, identifying and isolating all the infected is a fantasy. It just won't happen.

 

So once you accept that some people will die, you need to think of the living. The sooner things get to normal the sooner the economic misery, the economic impact of the crisis can be overcome the better it will be. That is a real issue, which would also lead to wide-spread crime, domestic violence, suicides, child poverty and other very serious issues that could last much longer than a year or two, if the economies of the world are ruined in a pointless exercise of 'social isolation', which is never real isolation anyway. People have to eat, they have to work, they have to travel. Social Isolation is a waste of time.

 

If you're looking to the future and the health of a society you have to look at the children. To bankrupt entire generations and whole economies to keep alive a few old folks is frankly an odd decision and history will look back unfavourably on such a decision, if it were made.

No, we don't have to "take it as understood that hospitals and health workers will be overwhelmed for a short time, whatever happens."  Most of health care in the US is operating fine currently.  Slowing the spread of the virus will allow them to prepare.

 

Also, we don't need to test, identify and isolate all of the infected.  Testing and indentifying a significant number of the infected will help slow the disease down.

 

Of course I accept people will die.  Everyone dies.  Most of us delay that event as long as we can.  Allowing the pandemic to go unchecked will accelerate the death of an unknown but large number of people, and overwhelm the health care system for everyone.  That will bad for the economy.

 

People will continue to eat.  Most people will continue to work.  Many luxuries--bars, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.--will be temporarily shut down.  People and the economy will survive that.

 

Do you have any expertise in this area?  Can you name any credible health care or economist who advocates letting the pandemic run unchecked?

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Right.  It's not like Trump was claiming the economy was doing great and was taking credit for it before the crash.

You miss my point. 

 

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The US economy has been due to crash. The powers that be were just waiting for a black swan event like this to enable the global financial reset.

 

It's not Trumps fault, yet those who don't like him will try to make it a political issue.

 

 

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Right.  It's not like Trump was claiming the economy was doing great and was taking credit for it before the crash.

 

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You miss my point. 

 

Really? 

 

My point is that since Trump claimed credit for an economy he deserves little credit for creating, he can expect blame for the fall of that economy.

 

What was your point in posting "It's not Trumps fault, yet those who don't like him will try to make it a political issue."?

Edited March 25, 2020 by heybruce

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Yes, and recently as yesterday he said the only way to get a handle on it is a 6-10 week lockdown.

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/shouldve-done-bill-gates-says-us-slow-covid-19-shutdown-now-unavoidable/

 

https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the-dangers-of-relying-on-philanthropists-during-pandemics/

 

No, that's not at all what he said. 

 

"Gates said on Tuesday that the U.S. needs to accelerate and better navigate COVID-19 testing."

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/shouldve-done-bill-gates-says-us-slow-covid-19-shutdown-now-unavoidable/

 

Gates thinks the US can do the test, identify and isolate solution. However, your second article from Wired, which is excellent btw, thanks for sharing, makes clear that Gates' own resources will not suffice for it. He would need the full resources of the US. And it does not look like Trump is committing anything near that.

 

It's not a suprise that Gates, the great humanitarian, would put lives at risk now over the economic destruction of millions of people which will come, money means nothing to him after all he is set for life. However, he does acknowledge the economic consequences are potentially disastrous for the rest of us.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Logosone

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

No, we don't have to "take it as understood that hospitals and health workers will be overwhelmed for a short time, whatever happens."  Most of health care in the US is operating fine currently.  Slowing the spread of the virus will allow them to prepare.

 

Also, we don't need to test, identify and isolate all of the infected.  Testing and indentifying a significant number of the infected will help slow the disease down.

 

Of course I accept people will die.  Everyone dies.  Most of us delay that event as long as we can.  Allowing the pandemic to go unchecked will accelerate the death of an unknown but large number of people, and overwhelm the health care system for everyone.  That will bad for the economy.

 

People will continue to eat.  Most people will continue to work.  Many luxuries--bars, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, etc.--will be temporarily shut down.  People and the economy will survive that.

 

Do you have any expertise in this area?  Can you name any credible health care or economist who advocates letting the pandemic run unchecked?

 

Nobody is saying to the let the pandemic run unchecked, however, the head of the WHO, Mike Ryan has said loud and clear that social isolation alone will do nothing, that health services have to test, identify and isolate to prevail.

 

"What we really need to focus on is finding those who are sick, those who have the virus, and isolate them, find their contacts and isolate them," Mike Ryan said in an interview on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03/22/world/europe/22reuters-health-coronavirus-who-ryan.html

 

The US health system is not prepared for this. Even Seattle needed Bill Gates to get test kits from his foundation.

 

If you think US health care will not be overwhelmed I think you're wrong, almost every health service in the world was, and the US has a population that is far larger than most of them, many more cases to deal with.

 

It is virtually certain that before the US can do a full test, identify and isolate solution it will long have developed herd immunity. To let the only  economy that can lead the world out of the depression go into self-imposed ruin would be criminally reckless.

 

One can think of the lives of the 80 year old people who will die, but one must also think of the future, the children who will pay for an economic apocalypse that will happen if the economy is not taken seriously. And their children, and their children's children.

 

This is not just playing with our lives, this is playing with future generations' lives. This is not just about 'luxuries' being denied, entire existential wipeouts are being committed on a level of several millions. Larry Kudlow is right, the cure should not be worse than the disease.

 

[lannarebirth]

59 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

No, that's not at all what he said. 

 

"Gates said on Tuesday that the U.S. needs to accelerate and better navigate COVID-19 testing."

 

 

 

Yes, that was the AND portion of his talk which came after:

 

Quote

 In his talk Tuesday morning, Gates acknowledged that the economy would suffer but said that “there really is no middle ground.” He suggested that we maintain a mandated shutdown of six to 10 weeks across the country. 

 

[Throatwobbler]

7 hours ago, Logosone said:

No, Italy's social distancing hasn't worked at all. What has worked for Italy was when they started testing, identifying and isolating the infected.

You are so wrong on that. Social distancing is the key.

[Throatwobbler]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Nobody is saying to the let the pandemic run unchecked, however, the head of the WHO, Mike Ryan has said loud and clear that social isolation alone will do nothing, that health services have to test, identify and isolate to prevail.

 

"What we really need to focus on is finding those who are sick, those who have the virus, and isolate them, find their contacts and isolate them," Mike Ryan said in an interview on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03/22/world/europe/22reuters-health-coronavirus-who-ryan.html

 

The US health system is not prepared for this. Even Seattle needed Bill Gates to get test kits from his foundation.

 

If you think US health care will not be overwhelmed I think you're wrong, almost every health service in the world was, and the US has a population that is far larger than most of them, many more cases to deal with.

 

It is virtually certain that before the US can do a full test, identify and isolate solution it will long have developed herd immunity. To let the only  economy that can lead the world out of the depression go into self-imposed ruin would be criminally reckless.

 

One can think of the lives of the 80 year old people who will die, but one must also think of the future, the children who will pay for an economic apocalypse that will happen if the economy is not taken seriously. And their children, and their children's children.

 

This is not just playing with our lives, this is playing with future generations' lives. This is not just about 'luxuries' being denied, entire existential wipeouts are being committed on a level of several millions. Larry Kudlow is right, the cure should not be worse than the disease.

 

The way you talk is like there has never been an economic down turn ever. The simple fact of what you are posting is that you are happy to let a lot of people die because you want to keep chasing the dollar.

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

You are so wrong on that. Social distancing is the key.

Both approaches are key. Social distancing buys you the time to ramp up widespread testing, which is also key.  It is not an either/or proposition.

 

 

 https://www.businessinsider.com/who-social-distancing-buying-time-must-pair-with-more-testing-2020-3

Edited March 25, 2020 by lannarebirth

[mvdf]

C'mon guys. Stop fighting it. It's a natural de-crowder in this already crowded planet. Make space for the next generation. Let go and feel that lovely life ebb away. 

[Nyezhov]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

This is a weak "rally around the President" affect.

Got it. Polls that show the folks like Trump. *add excuse*. Polls that show the folks hate Trump. Truth.

[simple1]

6 hours ago, Logosone said:

entire existential wipeouts are being committed on a level of several millions.

Curious to know to what are you referring? Interesting to note trump is focusing on support from his base - evangelicals - churches open for Easter! - LOL

Edited March 26, 2020 by simple1

[heybruce]

59 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Got it. Polls that show the folks like Trump. *add excuse*. Polls that show the folks hate Trump. Truth.

Got it.  Edit post to insignificant out-of-context snippet--weak counter to post.

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Got it.  Edit post to insignificant out-of-context snippet--weak counter to post.

Got it. Take the only statement worth responding to.