Explaining the Thai resilience to the virus

[Brunolem]

Many reasons have been offered in order to explain the big difference in lethality from the virus, between the West and the so-called developing countries.

 

It could be that there are different strains of the virus...

 

It could be the heat slowing the propagation...

 

But there is a more simple explanation:

 

The populations of the developing countries are more resilient than the Western populations because their organisms have not been weakened by decades of over medication!

 

What do you think?

[JaiMaai]

15 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

because their organisms have not been weakened by decades of over medication!

Given the suitcase full of drugs that I've been given every time I've seen a doctor here, I'll have to disagree!

[FarFlungFalang]

6 minutes ago, JaiMaai said:

Given the suitcase full of drugs that I've been given every time I've seen a doctor here, I'll have to disagree!

I remember as a kid I would get a lolly at the end of a doctors visit here you get a whole bag of mixed lollies.

[Brunolem]

35 minutes ago, JaiMaai said:

Given the suitcase full of drugs that I've been given every time I've seen a doctor here, I'll have to disagree!

But are you representative of the average Thai citizen? 

[Pravda]

 

 

My new wife works in sales for a big Japanese manufacturing supplier. Their clients are just about every major manufacturing company that exists in Thailand. Her job is to go around in her car, visit the clients and close the deals (no nasty jokes with this serious topic pls:) )

 

Anyway, just about every factory that she visits (and there are many) has at least 1 or more covid cases. Where she works near silom a major bank located in her building had an outbreak.

 

None of this was reported in the news. I asked if these cases are reported to the government and it was a firm no because all of the people infected were tested by themselves in private hospitals.

 

Resilience my behind.

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

What do you think?

i think it is 70% cultural. the numbers are low because

most Thais I know are scared of hospitals and doctors.

They just sit quietly and suffer through the normal flu or cold.

they only go to the pharmacy when they are running a high fever or have really bad flu symptoms. still no official contact with anyone.

 

I think now many are scared to say anything at all now.

plus the government still is not going to be truthful so you really can't draw a conclusion with their data. They are in continuous salvage mode and even a year from now TAT will be saying sometime like "Look Thailand had the lowest numbers, always safer than other countries, best place to be in a pandemic. bla bla bla".

 

yes there is some credence to the idea that they are closer to the ground and are more resistance to infection, perhaps have a unique diet of spices, children walking in waist deep flood water without getting sick, eating filthy food.

 

there is another factor and that is their belief that they are special and different.  

I will let you ponder the effects your mind has on your body thinking you strong and healthy all the time versus weak and sick.        

 

also Japan does not have a problem at all compared to the rest of the world because the government decided to not let the new media blast 24/7 fear because of the Olympics. They wanted to project normality. Some people get sick and recover without ever knowing if it was the normal flu or something else, some people go to the hospital and recover and some die. who knows what the real numbers are. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by NCC1701A

[Mattd]

10 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i think it is 70% cultural. the numbers are low because

most Thais I know are scared of hospitals and doctors.

They just sit quietly and suffer through the normal flu or cold.

they only go to the pharmacy when they are running a high fever or have really bad flu symptoms. still no official contact with anyone.

I don't think it is cultural, it is economics.

Most Thais that can afford it run to the doctors at the slightest sign of anything wrong with them, the doctor hands over a bag of assorted colour pills and all are happy.

Hospitals and pharmacies are lucrative businesses.

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i think it is 70% cultural. the numbers are low because

most Thais I know are scared of hospitals and doctors.

They just sit quietly and suffer through the normal flu or cold.

they only go to the pharmacy when they are running a high fever or have really bad flu symptoms. still no official contact with anyone.

 

I think now many are scared to say anything at all now.

plus the government still is not going to be truthful so you really can't draw a conclusion with their data. They are in continuous salvage mode and even a year from now TAT will be saying sometime like "Look Thailand had the lowest numbers, always safer than other countries, best place to be in a pandemic. bla bla bla".

 

yes there is some credence to the idea that they are closer to the ground and are more resistance to infection, perhaps have a unique diet of spices, children walking in waist deep flood water without getting sick, eating filthy food.

 

there is another factor and that is their belief that they are special and different.  

I will let you ponder the effects your mind has on your body thinking you strong and healthy all the time versus weak and sick.        

 

also Japan does not have a problem at all compared to the rest of the world because the government decided to not let the new media blast 24/7 fear because of the Olympics. They wanted to project normality. Some people get sick and recover without ever knowing if it was the normal flu or something else, some people go to the hospital and recover and some die. who knows what the real numbers are. 

 

 

 

 

By resilience I didn't mean resilience to infection but to its effects, especially the most "decisive" one. 

 

And I didn't want to focus on Thailand only, but on the developing countries at large. 

 

Numbers show a vast difference between both worlds (developed vs developing). 

 

They may not be entirely reliable, but who provides fully reliable numbers? 

 

In the actual context, it must be much more difficult for Thai people with symptoms, notably coughing, to avoid seeing a doctor, because of the pressure of their entourage (family, village...). 

 

Thai people support each other, but only to a certain extent, and that probably doesn't include getting the virus from their neighbor who doesn't want to see a doctor... 

 

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I don't think it is cultural, it is economics.

Most Thais that can afford it run to the doctors at the slightest sign of anything wrong with them, the doctor hands over a bag of assorted colour pills and all are happy.

Hospitals and pharmacies are lucrative businesses.

It cost them only 30 baht, so that's not the reason...

[Brunolem]

26 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

 

Anyway, just about every factory that she visits (and there are many) has at least 1 or more covid cases. Where she works near silom a major bank located in her building had an outbreak.

 

None of this was reported in the news. I asked if these cases are reported to the government and it was a firm no because all of the people infected were tested by themselves in private hospitals.

 

Resilience my behind.

If these workers have tested positive, they have (normally) been added to the daily total of new infections. 

 

Where did you read that private hospitals don't report their cases? 

 

Why would you want these specific cases to make the news? Why are they different from the other cases? 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Brunolem

[rupert the bear]

all positives most go on the govt role whatever hospitals used and deaths too,i personally think its the weather.what else could it be?we were almost another chinese province till feb!!so weve been very exposed to it,the govts policy has been obscure to say the least and how else can it be explained ?some cheating of course but you cant hide the infection nos too much or deaths too ,its notlike china where they disappear drs who are helping etc etc,what id like to know is where i can be tested quickly and cheaply.possibly for free,as thats the way forward with this,the sleazy private hospitals should be nationalised in regards to corona treatment and testing,the govt picking up the tab.its in their interest.the people with all the money need to spend it and help the country not themselves

[rabas]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

If these workers have tested positive, they have (normally) been added to the daily total of new infections. 

 

Where did you read that private hospitals don't report their cases? 

 

Why would you want these specific cases to make the news? Why are they different from the other cases? 

They have to by law. I asked at my local hospital. They said if the doctor orders a nCoV-2019 test, they first must get an authorization code from a central authority and only then do the test.

[richard_smith237]

Thai resilience ?.... or Thai resistance to reporting with any degree of factual transparency ?

 

Road Fatalities in Thailand are reported ‘differently’ than elsewhere, the WHO estimates are double Thailands official  figures. One could conclude that the Thai Covid-19 reports are also less than accurate. 

 

Thailands numbers are such a statistical outlier there simply has to be something ‘amiss’.

 

 

There were reports by Doctors (end of Jan) reporting that cases of Viral Pneumonia had sky-rocketed (Richard Barrow also reported this) which leads to suspicions that Thailand may not be reporting cases of Covid-19.

 

Almost as if gunshot victims are being reported as dying from lead poisoning... those with respiratory disease are being reported as having regular flu unless tests (which may not be carried out) prove otherwise. 

 

There seems to be a correlation between how well developed a country is and the figures reported. i.e. poorer countries seem to have far less numbers of Covid-19 cases - it just means the reporting network is extremely poor or being managed. 

 

 

And.... when key figures make announcements such as this it's hardly surprising the reported number are ‘kept' low.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by richard_smith237

[spiekerjozef]

Chili... for a strong immune system

[rumak]

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

i think it is 70% cultural. the numbers are low because

most Thais I know are scared of hospitals and doctors.

They just sit quietly and suffer through the normal flu or cold.

they only go to the pharmacy when they are running a high fever or have really bad flu symptoms. still no official contact with anyone.

 

I think now many are scared to say anything at all now.

plus the government still is not going to be truthful so you really can't draw a conclusion with their data. They are in continuous salvage mode and even a year from now TAT will be saying sometime like "Look Thailand had the lowest numbers, always safer than other countries, best place to be in a pandemic. bla bla bla".

 

yes there is some credence to the idea that they are closer to the ground and are more resistance to infection, perhaps have a unique diet of spices, children walking in waist deep flood water without getting sick, eating filthy food.

 

there is another factor and that is their belief that they are special and different.  

I will let you ponder the effects your mind has on your body thinking you strong and healthy all the time versus weak and sick.        

 

also Japan does not have a problem at all compared to the rest of the world because the government decided to not let the new media blast 24/7 fear because of the Olympics. They wanted to project normality. Some people get sick and recover without ever knowing if it was the normal flu or something else, some people go to the hospital and recover and some die. who knows what the real numbers are. 

 

 

 

 

all this is "your opinions"........?    I certainly hope you are not turning into the serious type so often found on these forums.    These might be serious times,  but seriously,  where are all these facts coming from ?     Too many confusing statements in the above post for me to take them one by one .

"I will let you ponder the effects your mind has on your body thinking you strong and healthy all the time versus weak and sick."      arai na ?

Spock calling Enterprise :   you can come back to Earth now  

 

 

 

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thailands numbers are such a statistical outlier there simply has to be something ‘amiss’.

 

 

There seems to be a correlation between how well developed a country is and the figures reported. i.e. poorer countries seem to have far less numbers of Covid-19 cases - it just means the reporting network is extremely poor or being managed. 

Thailand is not such an outlier compared with its neighbors. 

 

And once again, by resilience I don't mean the number of cases, which is meaningless anywhere, but the number of critically ill and deaths. 

 

This, they can't really hide. 

 

If the hospitals were flooded with new patients and people were dying en masse, as in Italy or Spain, this would be difficult to hide, and the population would speak. 

 

This is not China... news are flying fast from one side of the country to another... my wife is always one step ahead of me thanks to her contacts all over the country, even though I do my best to keep updated... 

 

[NCC1701A]

Just now, rumak said:

 

"I will let you ponder the effects your mind has on your body thinking you strong and healthy all the time versus weak and sick."      arai na ?

Spock calling Enterprise :   you can come back to Earth now  

 

 

 

i'm from California you got a problem with that?

 

[rumak]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

i'm from California you got a problem with that?

 

its nothing personal.   as before, just hoping to point out what i see.

those aliens with big heads from Californiagon look pretty funny and the sexy

girls like small heads a lot more

[Logosone]

There have been studies to try and explain why in Thailand 2500 die of the flu each year and in the UK 17000.

 

One thing they mention was that the data is unreliable. If people don't test and put on a death certificate 'flu' because it wasn't checked, then influenza mortality rate will be very low.

 

But yes it is a mystery.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Logosone

[Lacessit]

Just an opinion, but the Thai diet heavy in spices could be knocking out one transmission route.

[rumak]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Just an opinion, but the Thai diet heavy in spices could be knocking out one transmission route.

Yep,  its kept me away on more than one occasion   ????

[Lacessit]

Just now, rumak said:

Yep,  its kept me away on more than one occasion   ????

When my GF eats garlic, I eat garlic too. When she eats chili, so do I. Live a little.

[rumak]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

When my GF eats garlic, I eat garlic too. When she eats chili, so do I. Live a little.

"eat garlic , man !"    "NO, You eat garlic!"    Hey, you little prik !   Who you calling a prik ? !

Prik kee noooo     hahaha     Falang kee nok !     

ok ok    let's all get along now  .   

[Yinn]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

What do you think?

I think mask help a lot.

 

China, South Korea, Taiwan, HongKong most people wear mask.

Now it less.

 

 

Italy, Spain, UK, US, France most people not wear mask. Refuse.

Now have the most. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, rumak said:

"eat garlic , man !"    "NO, You eat garlic!"    Hey, you little prik !   Who you calling a prik ? !

Prik kee noooo     hahaha     Falang kee nok !     

ok ok    let's all get along now  .   

Funny, we swear at each other all the time in English and Thai when we play pa som sip. Plus sign language.

Did you know COVID-19 has been detected active in human feces? Not that I'm volunteering to investigate here in Thailand, but someone could get a Ph.D. out of it.

[Yinn]

26 minutes ago, Logosone said:

There have been studies to try and explain why in Thailand 2500 die of the flu each year and in the UK 17000.

 

One thing they mention was that the data is unreliable. If people don't test and put on a death certificate 'flu' because it wasn't checked, then influenza mortality rate will be very low.

 

But yes it is a mystery.

The UK coronavirus death toll has risen by 209 in 24 hours from 1,019 to 1,228. A total of 127,737 people have now been tested for coronavirus, with 19,522 positive results.

Edge Health, a UK health care data analysis company, revealed that while the official figure of coronavirus cases stood at 10,000 on March 26, the company's estimated true figure for infections in the UK was1,614,505.

 

With widespread testing not yet available in Britain and swabs only being given to those in hospital and some NHS critical care staff, there could be thousands who have COVID-19 and are not aware of it, the study suggests.

 

Those with milder symptoms who are not admitted to hospital are also not accounted for in official figures. 

•  

[Logosone]

6 minutes ago, Yinn said:

I think mask help a lot.

 

China, South Korea, Taiwan, HongKong most people wear mask.

Now it less.

 

 

Italy, Spain, UK, US, France most people not wear mask. Refuse.

Now have the most. 

Germany has consistently had lower mortality rate than China, ten times lower, but no mask.

 

Half the mortality rate of South Korea. But no mask.

 

Lower mortality than Taiwan. But no mask.

[daveAustin]

Quote

 

It could be that there are different strains of the virus...

It could be the heat slowing the propagation...

But there is a more simple explanation:

 

Yep. It's called under-reporting.

[orchis]

-no testing
-underreporting
-hasn't arrived in many provinces

-a weakened population by ongoing air pollution 

+masks

Edited March 30, 2020 by orchis

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, Brunolem said:

What do you think?

1. I think many countries are just lying through their teeth about numbers. Thai lying ? 100%

2. Countries with high death rates probably are testing more. Thai high testing ? Nope.

3. High death rates in other countries as higher % old people - Thai have many old people ? Nope, they kill them off as fast as possible through lack of social support.

 

My currently prediction is that tv will show more people will die from forthcoming lack of food and food rioting than stated dead by virus