Which chemicals are used in salt-water pools?

[Chrysaora]

I was told that our salt-water pool has chlorine in it.  Which chemicals are typically used here, in salt-water swimming pools?

[Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai]

Salt is all you need. Chlorinater makes chlorine. So easy in 5 years I never had to do anything else. 

In Chiang Mia  need to get a out during burning season.

So easy no hassles. Check chlorine levels occasionally.  I hardly ever do now. Just look at water. So easy, many experts tell you different but they no wife to #ump.

????❤????????

[daveAustin]

Yes, it's still chlorine, albeit with the chlorinator producing it 'naturally' from the salt. Should still be testing levels frequently and also adding in salt when required - the chlorinator might tell you how much. But as with any normal pool, you would also still need to keep it balanced - i.e. pH and total alkalinity levels, and possibly address level of calcium hardness.

[Chrysaora]

2 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

Yes, it's still chlorine, albeit with the chlorinator producing it 'naturally' from the salt. Should still be testing levels frequently and also adding in salt when required - the chlorinator might tell you how much. But as with any normal pool, you would also still need to keep it balanced - i.e. pH and total alkalinity levels, and possibly address level of calcium hardness.

What level should the chlorine be?

[Inepto Cracy]

My answers would be water, (H2O) and sodium chloride (NaCl).

When electricity is passed through 2NaCl (salt) and 2H₂0 (water), the atoms dissociate into Cl₂ (gaseous chlorine) + 2NaOH (sodium hydroxide) + H₂ (hydrogen).

[Mattd]

On 4/12/2020 at 12:22 AM, Chrysaora said:

What level should the chlorine be?

For a home pool, between 1ppm to 3ppm.

[Cricky]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:55 PM, Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai said:

Salt is all you need.

You must maintain the pH level. 

 

This requires additional chemicals 

[CGW]

7 minutes ago, VYCM said:

You must maintain the pH level. 

I check the PH every couple on months, probably add 2 litres of acid a year to balance, once the rains come never bother, rain keeps it neutral enough for me.

I add two sacks of salt a year, clean the chlorinator every three months, the rest of the time I just let it be if the water looks good.

A "salesman" will tell you to buy lots of different chemicals, 15 years with a salt water pool never listened to them and never had an issue.

[Assi]

You need to maintain a salt content of around 2500 - 3500 PPM (parts per million), depending on the chlorinator companies specifications. This can be tested with a testing device, available on Lazada. With the same tester, you can also check the ph level, which for salt water pools should be around 7.6, please note the level will always become more alkaline (higher), so having some hydrochloric acid at home to add occasionally would keep the ph at the ideal level. DO NOT USE THIS ACID IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF ITS DANGER!

Ideal chlorine level is at 1.0 and again any pool shop will sell you the test kits, so you can check yourself.

 

[AAArdvark]

On 4/12/2020 at 1:22 AM, Chrysaora said:

What level should the chlorine be?

Normally in the 3000 range.  Most generators have a readout will give you the current level and usually there is a chart on the generator control which tells you what it should be.  Unless the generator is broken, it is more important to use the level detected by the generator rather than what a water test gives you.

The term "salt water pool" is a misnomer.  It is a pool with salt added for use of the generator.  The water should not taste either salty or chlorinated.  However, metal objects which are not cleaned off after use will quickly corrode .

[Max69xl]

On 4/12/2020 at 12:22 AM, Chrysaora said:

What level should the chlorine be?

Don't you know how to use Google? There are loads of websites about swimming pools and everything you need to know about them. 

[3STTW]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Don't you know how to use Google? There are loads of websites about swimming pools and everything you need to know about them. 

To be fair, I've just moved into a new house and I have similar questions about my pool. It makes a lot of sense to ask for local know-how rather than clickbait-ridden Google garbage - some of that info is completely inappropriate for the Thai climate.

[Cricky]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Don't you know how to use Google? There are loads of websites about swimming pools and everything you need to know about them. 

That's what TVF is for, to help each other. 

Lots of knowledge here and lots of good members wanting to help. 

 

Different climates require different pool management.

I'm sure the members have a few tricks and tips they can pass on. 

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Don't you know how to use Google? There are loads of websites about swimming pools and everything you need to know about them. 

& they will all recommend that you pour tons of chemicals in as that is their business, "google" isn't your friend, it wants to sell you stuff (while stealing your personal info!) There is some good info to be had, just a matter of wading through all the garbage to get there!

[Bagwain]

Sorry guys, in tropical conditions which in most cases in Thailand, is all yr round, it is best to keep you salt levels around 4,000 ppm. Acid is need in salt pools to bring the ph down to correct levels. I.e. 7.2 - 7.4. Being a salt pool your ph will always be high. If it is constantly high you risk having black algae in the grout lines which is hard to get rid of. Depending on the size of your pool, will dictate how much acid to use. You can use Hydrauchloric acid or dry cyrstal acid (looks like rock salt). As a guide a 100,000 litre pool would use about 2 litres of Hydaucloric acid a week. Hand dosed 2 x 1 litre p/wk mixed in a bucket of water & spread around the pool when the pump is working. (Always add acid to water in the bucket) There is automatic dosing machines on the market, however they are expensive for a decent one. If it was my pool I would do an T/A (alkilinity) test monthly & use sodium bicarbonate (Buy from supermarket & not from a pool shop "ph buffer" as it is way cheaper) to keep the levels at 80 - 120 ppm. As you are constantly adding acid the T/A would be dropping every time!

Cheers

[RocketDog]

On 4/13/2020 at 2:45 PM, Inepto Cracy said:

My answers would be water, (H2O) and sodium chloride (NaCl).

When electricity is passed through 2NaCl (salt) and 2H₂0 (water), the atoms dissociate into Cl₂ (gaseous chlorine) + 2NaOH (sodium hydroxide) + H₂ (hydrogen).

Yes, and 30% hydrochloric acid can be used to clean the sodium cell from calcium and other salt deposits occasionally. 

HCl is also dumped into the pool to lower pH when necessarily. Take care to let it mix for several hours before swimming! ????

[RocketDog]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:55 PM, Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai said:

Salt is all you need. Chlorinater makes chlorine. So easy in 5 years I never had to do anything else. 

In Chiang Mia  need to get a out during burning season.

So easy no hassles. Check chlorine levels occasionally.  I hardly ever do now. Just look at water. So easy, many experts tell you different but they no wife to #ump.

????❤????????

Some guys don't want to dump their wives. 

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

10 hours ago, Bagwain said:

... sodium bicarbonate (Buy from supermarket & not from a pool shop "ph buffer" as it is way cheaper) to keep the levels at 80

It is quite possible that that the sodium bicarbonate sold by pool stores has been purchased in bulk, which on investigation works out much more economical than purchasing supermarket sachets in quantities more adapted for kitchen use

[MoD1977]

13 minutes ago, SwimmingPoolsThailand said:

It is quite possible that that the sodium bicarbonate sold by pool stores has been purchased in bulk, which on investigation works out much more economical than purchasing supermarket sachets in quantities more adapted for kitchen use

1kg bag of Backing Soda (sodium bicarbonate) at Big C is 70 Baht

Never seen any Pool shop who can beat this price even in higher quantities.

[Bagwain]

17 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Yes, and 30% hydrochloric acid can be used to clean the sodium cell from calcium and other salt deposits occasionally. 

HCl is also dumped into the pool to lower pH when necessarily. Take care to let it mix for several hours before swimming! ????

If you do use it to clean the cells, it needs to be 20% acid in 80% water. Be carefull about doing this to many times as it burns of the Titanium coating & shortens the life. Do it only if you see a build up white coating "Calcium" Otherwise it is fats & oils that inhibit the performance. This can be cleaned by diswashing liquid!

 

For pH control, acid into a normal size bucket of water and spread around the pool. If the pump is running you can swim no problem after 15/20 min. 

 

Sodium Bicarbonate is sold as that & not an inflated price and sold as pH buffer or riser!!

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, Bagwain said:

If you do use it to clean the cells, it needs to be 20% acid in 80% water. Be carefull about doing this to many times as it burns of the Titanium coating & shortens the life. Do it only if you see a build up white coating "Calcium" Otherwise it is fats & oils that inhibit the performance. This can be cleaned by diswashing liquid!

 

For pH control, acid into a normal size bucket of water and spread around the pool. If the pump is running you can swim no problem after 15/20 min. 

 

Sodium Bicarbonate is sold as that & not an inflated price and sold as pH buffer or riser!!

Good point about diluting the acid and using simple soaps to dissolve lipids. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the tip. 

 

I guess the delay before swimming depends on how well the acid was spread around the pool and how well the pool is pumped and filtered, i.e. the water turnover rate/pool size. 

At worst early use will cause some red skin but flesh won't fall off! ????. 

I would think only a few hours would be required at worst assuming the pump runs during that time. 

 

Good tip on buying sodium bicarbonate to raise pH. I've seen fairly large bags in Makro as well as smaller bags in Big C. It could take several of these bags to treat a normal size pool depending on how low the pH is. Still, cheaper than the buckets at a pool shop. 

 

Strangely enough sodium hydroxide (in polyethylene bags no less) is available in Big C. That will also raise pH but considerably more dangerous to handle. Very easy to get blinded playing with that stuff. 

It seems odd to me that it is so readily available when things like Chlorox and ammonia are not. TIT. 

[SantiSuk]

On 4/14/2020 at 8:41 AM, Bagwain said:

Sorry guys, in tropical conditions which in most cases in Thailand, is all yr round, it is best to keep you salt levels around 4,000 ppm. Acid is need in salt pools to bring the ph down to correct levels. I.e. 7.2 - 7.4. Being a salt pool your ph will always be high. If it is constantly high you risk having black algae in the grout lines which is hard to get rid of. Depending on the size of your pool, will dictate how much acid to use. You can use Hydrauchloric acid or dry cyrstal acid (looks like rock salt). As a guide a 100,000 litre pool would use about 2 litres of Hydaucloric acid a week. Hand dosed 2 x 1 litre p/wk mixed in a bucket of water & spread around the pool when the pump is working. (Always add acid to water in the bucket) There is automatic dosing machines on the market, however they are expensive for a decent one. If it was my pool I would do an T/A (alkilinity) test monthly & use sodium bicarbonate (Buy from supermarket & not from a pool shop "ph buffer" as it is way cheaper) to keep the levels at 80 - 120 ppm. As you are constantly adding acid the T/A would be dropping every time!

Cheers

Glad you said that Bagwain. My 90,000 litre pool has used an average of 2 litres per week so far this year (I keep a log) and I thought that was a lot more than I previously needed. But it's only a little bit over your guidance comment.

 

I have real trouble keeping both TA and pH at balanced levels in the last 9 months. I'm doing pretty much the same as in previous years, dosing 4L of HcL when pH reaches 7.7 (result 7.1 +/- 0.1) and dosing 2-3kg of sodium bicarb when TA drops below 50, resulting TA 90-110 (I test both levels weekly but too often I'm tempted to wait for another week's result before reacting). That's 1kg every 5 days. I guess I could keep the levels in better sync (ie a tighter range of both levels) if I tested more regularly than weekly and/or adopted smaller doses but my dosing regime seemed to maintain a tighter range for longer in previous years. Any observations on how to stop the levels of both swinging around? I know that low calc (say sub 150) can make keeping a good balance of chemicals generally more difficult, but I maintain a reasonably high calc level at 220 to 260

 

Incidentally if you have a medium-large pool like mine or bigger it makes more sense to buy sodium bicarbonate in 25kg sacks at a catering supplier's shop. Most larger towns have one of these and if you have a falang restaurant or bakery that you know well they can often point you in the right direction. 25kg costs 550 baht in my local regional centre of Ubon Ratchathani. 

[Bagwain]

1 hour ago, SantiSuk said:

Glad you said that Bagwain. My 90,000 litre pool has used an average of 2 litres per week so far this year (I keep a log) and I thought that was a lot more than I previously needed. But it's only a little bit over your guidance comment.

 

I have real trouble keeping both TA and pH at balanced levels in the last 9 months. I'm doing pretty much the same as in previous years, dosing 4L of HcL when pH reaches 7.7 (result 7.1 +/- 0.1) and dosing 2-3kg of sodium bicarb when TA drops below 50, resulting TA 90-110 (I test both levels weekly but too often I'm tempted to wait for another week's result before reacting). That's 1kg every 5 days. I guess I could keep the levels in better sync (ie a tighter range of both levels) if I tested more regularly than weekly and/or adopted smaller doses but my dosing regime seemed to maintain a tighter range for longer in previous years. Any observations on how to stop the levels of both swinging around? I know that low calc (say sub 150) can make keeping a good balance of chemicals generally more difficult, but I maintain a reasonably high calc level at 220 to 260

 

Incidentally if you have a medium-large pool like mine or bigger it makes more sense to buy sodium bicarbonate in 25kg sacks at a catering supplier's shop. Most larger towns have one of these and if you have a falang restaurant or bakery that you know well they can often point you in the right direction. 25kg costs 550 baht in my local regional centre of Ubon Ratchathani. 

You are on the ball.

I think you problem has arisen because of your make up water. It could be low T/A. Remember T/A is reduced everytime you dose acid. (I sure you know this)!

 

Yes buying Bicarb in bulk is the way!! Well done & good advice. However most don't bother with T/A.

 

By the way peeps reading this. Sodium Bicarbonate is really not for pH levels but more for stabilisation! 

 

Salt pools pH up, acid for down. Bicarb for T/A

 

Chlorine pools pH down for (90% & 70%) Soda ash for pH up, bicarb for T/A

 

Liquid Chlorine pH up, acid for down & bicarb for T/A

 

Never put any 2 chemical in at the same time. (12 hrs difference at least)

 

Cheers

[Valentine]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:11 PM, MoD1977 said:

1kg bag of Backing Soda (sodium bicarbonate) at Big C is 70 Baht

Never seen any Pool shop who can beat this price even in higher quantities.

A 25kg bag of bicarb should not cost more than 1,000 Baht in a pool shop

[MoD1977]

21 hours ago, Valentine said:

A 25kg bag of bicarb should not cost more than 1,000 Baht in a pool shop

I've never seen a 25kg Bag in the pool shops here in Pattaya or online.

They only sell 1 or 4kg bags.

 

If you know one, please tell me/us where it is.

[Bagwain]

On 4/18/2020 at 3:10 PM, MoD1977 said:

I've never seen a 25kg Bag in the pool shops here in Pattaya or online.

They only sell 1 or 4kg bags.

 

If you know one, please tell me/us where it is.

Where are you? 

You should be able to order it!

Top price 1200 baht!

[MoD1977]

On 4/20/2020 at 1:22 PM, Bagwain said:

Where are you? 

You should be able to order it!

Top price 1200 baht!

Pattaya (Darkside)

[Bagwain]

On 4/22/2020 at 6:17 PM, MoD1977 said:

Pattaya (Darkside)

You can order at the pool shop up near Route CC bar on Siam Country Club.

I have bought there before!

[SantiSuk]

On 4/17/2020 at 5:21 PM, Valentine said:

A 25kg bag of bicarb should not cost more than 1,000 Baht in a pool shop

... or 550 baht for 25 x 1kg bags (ie 22 baht a kg) in a bakery supply shop - see my longer post above!

 

Incidentally - it's traditional in threads about TA to remind folk NOT TO BUY BAKING POWDER. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate and so is OK. Baking powder has other stuff in it and is not OK.

 

 

[techmartin]

 

Hello