UK coronavirus death toll nears 10,000 as minister says PM Johnson must rest

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'm afraid that Sweden is not doing so well anymore.

 

 

Strange, that...............

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

If this has anything to do with the topic please let me know?

Again, the reply was to an off-topic post. But that's OK, yeah?

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Any evidence is still emerging and certainly incomplete. That's part of the reason many governments erred at the start of this. The South Koreans and Taiwanese tackled it best and fastest - probably because they had better intelligence and assumed that the Chinese had a much earlier and bigger problem than was declared. As the global guiders, WHO dithered about and refused to use the pandemic classification for far too long. Now look at it - useless! 

WHO eventually gained on the ground access to China from 18 - 24 February after initially being refused entry (look up Disease Diplomacy). WHO published their report on 28 February - hardly dithering - with policy recommendations that have been implemented by most governments.

Edited April 12, 2020 by simple1

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Strange, that...............

I'd just call it sad.

[candide]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Any evidence is still emerging and certainly incomplete. That's part of the reason many governments erred at the start of this. The South Koreans and Taiwanese tackled it best and fastest - probably because they had better intelligence and assumed that the Chinese had a much earlier and bigger problem than was declared. As the global guiders, WHO dithered about and refused to use the pandemic classification for far too long. Now look at it - useless! 

February 11

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization asked countries to be “as aggressive as possible” in fighting the newly named COVID-19 coronavirus on Tuesday.

“If the world doesn’t want to wake up and consider the virus as public enemy number one, I don’t think we will learn from our lessons,” WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said in Geneva.

“...We are still in containment strategy and should not allow the virus to have a space to have local transmission.”

https://fr.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKKBN205218

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

WHO eventually gained on the ground access to China from 18 - 24 February after initially being refused entry (look up Disease Diplomacy). WHO published their report on 28 February - hardly dithering - with policy recommendations that have been implemented by most governments.

Hardly dithering! At least 5 weeks after the exodus from Wuhan to most points in China and, more importantly beyond. Why do you think WHO had to wait so long for access to China? They should have listened to the Taiwanese in January instead! Oh, sorry it wouldn't be PC to do that now would it?  

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavirus-china/ 

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, candide said:

February 11

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization asked countries to be “as aggressive as possible” in fighting the newly named COVID-19 coronavirus on Tuesday.

“If the world doesn’t want to wake up and consider the virus as public enemy number one, I don’t think we will learn from our lessons,” WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said in Geneva.

“...We are still in containment strategy and should not allow the virus to have a space to have local transmission.”

https://fr.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKKBN205218

More mush speak from Tedros, I'm afraid. Just aggressive would have been better. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by nauseus
g

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

More mush speak from Tedros, I'm afraid. Just agressive would have been better. 

Are individual countries obliged to act in accordance with instruction from the WHO, or are they free to make their own evaluations, assessments and plans? I presume the latter?

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Are individual countries obliged to act in accordance with instruction from the WHO, or are they free to make their own evaluations, assessments and plans? I presume the latter?

In Taiwan's case at least, certainly the latter. But then what's really the point of having the WHO?

[simple1]

34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hardly dithering! At least 5 weeks after the exodus from Wuhan to most points in China and, more importantly beyond. Why do you think WHO had to wait so long for access to China? They should have listened to the Taiwanese in January instead! Oh, sorry it wouldn't be PC to do that now would it?  

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavirus-china/ 

Wilfred Chan is a freelance writer and part-time delivery worker living in Manhattan. However, have a read of his latest twitter posts (not permitted to link to twitter) which indicates some lack of certainty. But you are correct the Taiwanese took the threat a lot more seriously at the time than the trump administration. Taiwan has donated masks to a number of EU countries, great to see the Taiwanese setting an excellent example of international co-operation unlike you know who.

 

BTW what don't you understand about WHO being refused on the ground access into China until 18 February to gain empirical data in order to factually guide the international community, rather than based upon opinion - remember Disease Diplomacy!

 

What's the point of having WHO??? Surely you're cognisant of their excellent work with managing disease control and eradication worldwide. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by simple1

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Any evidence is still emerging and certainly incomplete. That's part of the reason many governments erred at the start of this. The South Koreans and Taiwanese tackled it best and fastest - probably because they had better intelligence and assumed that the Chinese had a much earlier and bigger problem than was declared. As the global guiders, WHO dithered about and refused to use the pandemic classification for far too long. Now look at it - useless! 

Factual post, until you come with an unfounded opinion on why SK and Taiwan did well.

 

Purely factual: SK and SK applied an early and often testing method, exactly as suggested by the WHO.

[yang123]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

It was reported last week that US intelligence agencies identified in November last year the very real threat that Covid-19 posed to the west.  

Link please.

Thanks

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Link please.

Thanks

US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus outbreak in China as early as November

 

 

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow, if you take into consideration overall population UK death tolls are 2 1/2 times that of the US.

I wonder why this is.

Maybe because the UK has a 66,5 million inhabitants ( 9,875 deaths 12 April ), the USA 328,2 million ( 20,580 deaths 12 April ) and a 2 weeks behind the UK in the covid-19 problem ? The picture changes completely, when you compare New York ( 19,5 mln, death toll 8,627 ( 11 April) with London ( 9,0 mln- ).

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Wilfred Chan is a freelance writer and part-time delivery worker living in Manhattan. However, have a read of his latest twitter posts (not permitted to link to twitter) which indicates some lack of certainty. But you are correct the Taiwanese took the threat a lot more seriously at the time than the trump administration. Taiwan has donated masks to a number of EU countries, great to see the Taiwanese setting an excellent example of international co-operation unlike you know who.

 

BTW what don't you understand about WHO being refused on the ground access into China until 18 February to gain empirical data in order to factually guide the international community, rather than based upon opinion - remember Disease Diplomacy!

 

What's the point of having WHO??? Surely you're cognisant of their excellent work with managing disease control and eradication worldwide. 

Your comment (second para) makes no sense at all and so far as excellent work goes...well after this who can really know? (no pun intended). 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Factual post, until you come with an unfounded opinion on why SK and Taiwan did well.

 

Purely factual: SK and SK applied an early and often testing method, exactly as suggested by the WHO.

Not sure what you're on about. Taiwan and ROK were testing and tracking before Tedros started bleating test test test, even though WHO must have known most of their members had insufficient testing equipment at the time. 

[nauseus]

Well back to topic, Boris has been discharged and is at Chequers to start his recovery. Good.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well back to topic, Boris has been discharged and is at Chequers to start his recovery. Good.

 

 

Good.

He has a lot of questions to answer when he is fully recovered.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Good.

He has a lot of questions to answer when he is fully recovered.

I don't think he's a TV member. ????

 

[simple1]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your comment (second para) makes no sense at all a <SNIP>

Look up Disease Diplomacy, WHO requested access to China to assess the Covid situation, but was initially refused. later WHO was permitted entry for assessment purposes (incl US representatives) during 18 - 24 February. No surprise the WHO 28 February report contains diplomatic speak for Chinese consumption, but WHO recommendations from Page 21 onward have been enacted by most government for Covid containment; albeit some countries were unprepared at the strategic level to deal with a pandemics, thereby slow response rollout  e.g. USA

Edited April 12, 2020 by simple1

[Coremouse]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

Any evidence is still emerging and certainly incomplete. That's part of the reason many governments erred at the start of this. The South Koreans and Taiwanese tackled it best and fastest - probably because they had better intelligence and assumed that the Chinese had a much earlier and bigger problem than was declared. As the global guiders, WHO dithered about and refused to use the pandemic classification for far too long. Now look at it - useless! 

Chinese locked down entire city and half country in Jan 23. More than 100 Chinese died per day in early Feb( of course, with cheap hindsight, that may feels miniscule compares to western now ). What else intelligence do one needs to start act? Unless being some lazy government.

 

Also China had massive inflow of South Koreans and Returnees, when the blink moment SK seems as bad as Hubei yet most Chinese provinces outside Hubei not hit. Superior intelligence? 

 

ps. Taiwan so far STILL prohibit its citizens to COVID test unless severe symptons or returning foreigner, polar opposite of SK. Jut before Thai emergency, my Taiwanese friend were having trouble return to Thailand because Doctors won't issue medical cert regarding covid. I won't believe any numbers from country prohibiting massive test( like early Japan, US. Both skyrocketing now )

 

Also UK "herd immunity" did mess up public perception of danger, if the concept so miraculous - back then why did we need vaccine for smallpox to build up real herd immunity?

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Coremouse

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

Look up Disease Diplomacy, WHO requested access to China to assess the Covid situation, but was initially refused. later WHO was permitted entry for assessment purposes (incl US representatives) during 18 - 24 February. No surprise the WHO 28 February report contains diplomatic speak for Chinese consumption, but WHO recommendations from Page 21 onward have been enacted by most government for Covid containment; albeit some countries were unprepared at the strategic level to deal with a pandemics, thereby slow response rollout  e.g. USA

I saw it before but it makes little difference to what I have said previously. Agencies and governments are not bound by what is written in a book (no pun intended), even if it is published by Johns Hopkins or whether the contents are sensible or not.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Coremouse said:

Chinese locked down entire city and half country in Jan 23. More than 100 Chinese died per day in early Feb( of course, with cheap hindsight, that may feels miniscule compares to western now ). What else intelligence do one needs to start act? Unless being some lazy government.

 

Also China had massive inflow of South Koreans and Returnees, when the blink moment SK seems as bad as Hubei yet most Chinese provinces outside Hubei not hit. Superior intelligence? 

 

ps. Taiwan so far STILL prohibit its citizens to COVID test unless severe symptons or returning foreigner, polar opposite of SK. Jut before Thai emergency, my Taiwanese friend were having trouble return to Thailand because Doctors won't issue medical cert regarding covid. I won't believe any numbers from country prohibiting massive test( like early Japan, US. Both skyrocketing now )

 

Also UK "herd immunity" did mess up public perception of danger, if the concept so miraculous - back then why did we need vaccine for smallpox to build up real herd immunity?

 

Your first comments about 'half country' lock down in Jan 23 and massive inflow of South Koreans are incorrect. Taiwan was prepared, especially with PPE and was quickly successful with  good tracking and tracing techniques. I don't believe most of the numbers but most of them at least give a fair guide.

Edited April 13, 2020 by nauseus

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I saw it before but it makes little difference to what I have said previously. Agencies and governments are not bound by what is written in a book (no pun intended), even if it is published by Johns Hopkins or whether the contents are sensible or not.

earlier today I returned from a swim at beautiful Noosa main beach. Clear unpolluted ocean, water 26C, air 27C - fantastic - have a nice day...

Edited April 13, 2020 by simple1

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

earlier today I returned from a swim at beautiful Noosa main beach. Clear unpolluted ocean, water 26C, air 27C - fantastic - have a nice day...

Don't bite the sharks!

[Surelynot]

23 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You can see the fawning right wing press rallying round him now, fighting to project this cult of Boris the winner, despite the rising death toll for which he is responsible. 

 

But mountains of evidence of his and his cabinets shocking, callous ineptitude exists. If justice still exists in the UK, in time they will be excoriated.

OMG You are bang on here. They are already desparately trying to blame the public by moving the focus away from their unbelievable ineptitude and lies to ........a failure to observe social distancing. This government has killed more British citizens in four weeks than the IRA, ISIS and the Taliban combined.

[nauseus]

32 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

OMG You are bang on here. They are already desparately trying to blame the public by moving the focus away from their unbelievable ineptitude and lies to ........a failure to observe social distancing. This government has killed more British citizens in four weeks than the IRA, ISIS and the Taliban combined.

Bang off. If you feel the need to blame any single party then you have the wrong government.

[RuamRudy]

On 4/12/2020 at 9:16 AM, Baerboxer said:

 

The NHS in Scotland is the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament but you already know that I think. So that would be Sturgeon definitely failing there.

Could this be a factor in Scotland's ppe delivery challenge? 

 

Scotland hit by 'England-only' supply decision

 

"Supplies of protective equipment to carers in Scotland have been hit by the decision of the four largest manufacturers in the UK saying they will limit supplies to England, it has been revealed."

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Bang off. If you feel the need to blame any single party then you have the wrong government.

Because the party in power aren’t responsible or because you can’t stomach them being held accountable?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because the party in power aren’t responsible or because you can’t stomach them being held accountable?

Because the majority of blame for all of this can be fairly apportioned to another party, you know, the big one in China?