Spray on foam roof insulation

[HashBrownHarry]

Looking at getting this done in my house, has anyone done this and have experience?

 

1. did it make a large difference in A/C efficiency?

2. does it seal up leaks in roof ( if there are any )?

3. how long does it last before needing 're-done'?

4. rough cost per sqm?

5. any companies that do this in Central thailand?

 

Thanks.

[sometimewoodworker]

0) yes

1) it depends on how thick it is

2) yes

3) a long time, I don’t expect it to need to be redone unless there is mechanical damage

4) 300 baht for 25mm thickness 

5) yes, we are in Issan, the company came from Bangkok 

[HashBrownHarry]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

0) yes

1) it depends on how thick it is

2) yes

3) a long time, I don’t expect it to need to be redone unless there is mechanical damage

4) 300 baht for 25mm thickness 

5) yes, we are in Issan, the company came from Bangkok 

Excellent, thanks for the info, any contact details?

 

 

[Kwasaki]

Insulation to the ceilings and venting the roof space is cheaper and more affective. 

Up to you. 

[HashBrownHarry]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Insulation to the ceilings and venting the roof space is cheaper and more affective. 

Up to you. 

But will not fix / prevent small leaks as the foam will ( or claims to ).

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, HashBrownHarry said:

But will not fix / prevent small leaks as the foam will ( or claims to ).

You shouldn't have any roof leaks if your roof is not old or maintained.

Foam is not the way to stop roof leaks.

[EVENKEEL]

I have an older double wide trailer in the states. I had the roof covered with that spray on foam. Works great, I could pick the thickness and priced accordingly.

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

You shouldn't have any roof leaks if your roof is not old or maintained.

Foam is not the way to stop roof leaks.

Of course you shouldn't, i understand that!

 

With regards to your 2nd sentence, see post #2 answer to question #2 from someone who has experience with it.

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I have an older double wide trailer in the states. I had the roof covered with that spray on foam. Works great, I could pick the thickness and priced accordingly.

thank you for your input.

[thainet]

9 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Of course you shouldn't, i understand that!

 

With regards to your 2nd sentence, see post #2 answer to question #2 from someone who has experience with it.

Well the answers on the 'stopping leaks' is NOT correct.

But firstly I have had it done in 2 houses. One in Pattaya and one in Chiangmai (same company did both).

1) Hot air in your house naturally rises, so with the foam the air cannot escape, so the areas above the ceilings (unless vented) are very hot.  (my experience over 20 years).

2) Once the foam hardens it is very strong, so it does serve as a barrier to the roof tiles and keeps them strong.

3) So now to the leaks.... Most modern houses in Thailand have many ridges on the roof where the tiles meet. These will crack or expand at some point and water will drip in and onto the ceiling. Ok these are quite easy to fix. 

But when the foam is sprayed onto the underside of the roof tiles it forms a barrier, which is part of it's appeal, BUT then any leak that would normally just drip, now cannot, so it runs down the inside of the tile ridge (between the tiles and the foam) and then exits wherever it finds a spot that hasn't been 100% covered with foam. Invariably this is near the lowest part of the ridge tile, but the actual area of tile or cement where the actual leak is, could be anywhere on the ridge spine, and so because it doesn't drip straight down, it is super hard to find.

eg: I had one for many years and it was impossible to find (due to my above explanation), so finally had to take off a large area of ridge tiles, clean, scrape the foam and reseal, then put new ridge tiles and regrout/seal etc. Big and expensive job.

 

So the OP asked for experience with foam, so as per my above missive, I have not used foam on any of my other houses since then.  Over the past 10-15 years all the houses I've built have reflective coated gypsum ceilings, extremely good ventilation through the eaves, and maybe 2-3 whirlybirds on the backside of the roof (where they are not seen).

With my experience I've found this method much better than the foam, plus of coarse a fraction of the price.

I am sure others think differently, but for me foam is not the way to go these days.

Anyway hope this has helped a few people. Cheers T.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

2 minutes ago, thainet said:

Well the answers on the 'stopping leaks' is NOT correct.

But firstly I have had it done in 2 houses. One in Pattaya and one in Chiangmai (same company did both).

1) Hot air in your house naturally rises, so with the foam the air cannot escape, so the areas above the ceilings (unless vented) are very hot.  (my experience over 20 years).

2) Once the foam hardens it is very strong, so it does serve as a barrier to the roof tiles and keeps them strong.

3) So now to the leaks.... Most modern houses in Thailand have many ridges on the roof where the tiles meet. These will crack or expand at some point and water will drip in and onto the ceiling. Ok these are quite easy to fix. 

But when the foam is sprayed onto the underside of the roof tiles it forms a barrier, which is part of it's appeal, BUT then any leak that would normally just drip, now cannot, so it runs down the inside of the tile ridge (between the tiles and the foam) and then exits wherever it finds a spot that hasn't been 100% covered with foam. Invariably this is near the lowest part of the ridge tile, but the actual area of tile or cement where the actual leak is, could be anywhere on the ridge spine, and so because it doesn't drip straight down, it is super hard to find.

eg: I had one for many years and it was impossible to find (due to my above explanation), so finally had to take off a large area of ridge tiles, clean, scrape the foam and reseal, then put new ridge tiles and regrout/seal etc. Big and expensive job.

 

So the OP asked for experience with foam, so as per my above missive, I have not used foam on any of my other houses since then.  Over the past 10-15 years all the houses I've built have reflective coated gypsum ceilings, extremely good ventilation through the eaves, and maybe 2-3 whirlybirds on the backside of the roof (where they are not seen).

With my experience I've found this method much better than the foam, plus of coarse a fraction of the price.

I am sure others think differently, but for me foam is not the way to go these days.

Anyway hope this has helped a few people. Cheers T.

 

Thank you for your experience.

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Of course you shouldn't, i understand that!

 

With regards to your 2nd sentence, see post #2 answer to question #2 from someone who has experience with it.

Up to you if you want to insulate in that way and allegedly fix leaks as they say, I have already gave my expert opinion of my own, post #4.

I will give more free of charge. ????

 

I wouldn't use that method on the underside of a house roof it maybe has it's purpose in other adaptions as already post stated.

 

1. did it make a large difference in A/C efficiency? 

Ans:- If it's at least 130 mm thick and is professionally applied.

2. does it seal up leaks in roof ( if there are any )?

Ans:- Probably but water ingress will still deteriorate parts of the roof structure. 

3. how long does it last before needing 're-done'?

Ans:- Allegedly 25 years if done properly.

 

4. rough cost per sq.m?

Ans:- Have no idea in Thailand how much 130mm thick is, you can get a quote.

5. any companies that do this in Central thailand?

Ans:- 2 or 3 maybe more google it.

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Up to you if you want to insulate in that way and allegedly fix leaks as they say, I have already gave my expert opinion of my own, post #4.

I will give more free of charge. ????

 

I wouldn't use that method on the underside of a house roof it maybe has it's purpose in other adaptions as already post stated.

 

1. did it make a large difference in A/C efficiency? 

Ans:- If it's at least 130 mm thick and is professionally applied.

2. does it seal up leaks in roof ( if there are any )?

Ans:- Probably but water ingress will still deteriorate parts of the roof structure. 

3. how long does it last before needing 're-done'?

Ans:- Allegedly 25 years if done properly.

 

4. rough cost per sq.m?

Ans:- Have no idea in Thailand how much 130mm thick is, you can get a quote.

5. any companies that do this in Central thailand?

Ans:- 2 or 3 maybe more google it.

What makes you an expert?

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

What makes you an expert?

On my family crest there is my "letters" FIoR.

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Looking at getting this done in my house, has anyone done this and have experience?

I researched into what you are looking into doing, before I insulated my house.

 

Long of the short, any house without sissolation or (reflective thermal insulation) under your roof, plus insulation batts with an R38 rating, whirlybirds, vents, and vented eaves is a waste of money and your time IMO.

 

Don't have to take my word for it, I am sitting here in my cool brick and tile house, currently 2.35pm, and its 37 degree outside, inside reading is showing 31.9 degree but doesn't feel like it at all, but looked at two thermometers, one digital and one of the older style on the wall with mercury, so they must be right. Fan on in a different direction for air circulation and cool air blowing around.

 

It's worth the added expense otherwise you will be hot, and I don't think what your looking at is good for rats and is doesn't comply to fire rating standards.

 

As for a leaking roof, well we had a leak, gyprock ceiling fell in, batts still in place, new ceiling put back up after roof leak fixed and batts dried, miniscule expense for three gyprock sheets, I think 480 baht for 3 sheets, plus 300 for the labor.

 

I suppose it all depends on your budget and the type of construction you have, because if it's a timber house with an iron roof and low clearance within the ceiling, nothing will sort it, the higher the roof pitch, the better your chances of getting that air moved through with vents, whirly birds, and vented eaves.

[HashBrownHarry]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

On my family crest there is my "letters" FIoR.

I have no idea what that means?

[canopy]

The beauty of the spray foam no one realizes is because it is applied to the roofing directly it means there is no cavity between the roof and insulation that needs ventilated to prevent condensing issues. That whole problem is gone. Spray foam is also extremely tough, increases the strength and rigidity of the roof, and will last 80 years where fiberglass is 10-25 years IF you keep it dry. Spray foam has a much better r-value than other types of insulation per inch so it can also be desirable when a compact space is needed. Make sure to choose closed cell, not open cell. Price nowadays is 600/sqm per inch of thickness I think.

 

However I do not like the waterproofing aspect of using spray foam. It's not good to have water dripping inside your roof and being perfectly trapped by the foam. Better to know about any leaks and fix them rather than have things rot/rust without knowing it is happening.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

50 minutes ago, canopy said:

The beauty of the spray foam no one realizes is because it is applied to the roofing directly it means there is no cavity between the roof and insulation that needs ventilated to prevent condensing issues. That whole problem is gone. Spray foam is also extremely tough, increases the strength and rigidity of the roof, and will last 80 years where fiberglass is 10-25 years IF you keep it dry. Spray foam has a much better r-value than other types of insulation per inch so it can also be desirable when a compact space is needed. Make sure to choose closed cell, not open cell. Price nowadays is 600/sqm per inch of thickness I think.

 

However I do not like the waterproofing aspect of using spray foam. It's not good to have water dripping inside your roof and being perfectly trapped by the foam. Better to know about any leaks and fix them rather than have things rot/rust without knowing it is happening.

 

Thank you for the info / opinions.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, canopy said:

Price nowadays is 600/sqm per inch of thickness I think.

It is half that. 600 is for 50mm

Edited May 2, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[canopy]

The source I am familiar with out of chonburi is 600 baht/sqm for one inch of thickness. You have mentioned 300 for a long time so I wondered if it might be out of date.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

The source I am familiar with out of chonburi is 600 baht/sqm for one inch of thickness. You have mentioned 300 for a long time so I wondered if it might be out of date.

 

i spoke with them yesrterday and this is the price i got as well, 600tbh per sqm

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

i spoke with them yesrterday and this is the price i got as well, 600tbh per sqm

It was not that long ago but it was a large area, over 400 sqm and it absolutely was 300 baht per square meter per 25mm of depth.

 

if you are being quoted double that then there are other factors which can include; agent fee, small roof area, foreigner tax etc. You should find other companies that do the job.

 

 

[Lacessit]

I would never use spray foam. One short circuit in the ceiling space, and the potential is there for the foam to be thermally degraded, either by fire or heat.

Foam is most commonly polyurethane. The degradation products of polyurethane are hydrogen cyanide, among plenty of other toxic compounds. Fibreglass insulation is far safer.

Leaks won't improve by spraying on foam. All that is doing is delaying the inevitable.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Lacessit

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I would never use spray foam. One short circuit in the ceiling space, and the potential is there for the foam to be thermally degrade,either by fire or heat.

Foam is most commonly polyurethane. The degradation products of polyurethane are hydrogen cyanide, among plenty of other toxic compounds. Fibreglass insulation is far safer.

Leaks won't improve by spraying on foam. All that is doing is delaying the inevitable.

The flamability theory is one i will discuss with 'potential' supplier.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, HashBrownHarry said:

The flamability theory is one i will discuss with 'potential' supplier.

All suppliers will tell you the foam has flame retardants in it. What they don't tell you is, with the cycling of roof temperatures by day and night, those chemicals break down and are no longer effective. Might take a few years, but the risk will be there.

[bankruatsteve]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It was not that long ago but it was a large area, over 400 sqm and it absolutely was 300 baht per square meter per 25mm of depth.

So, you paid over B120K for foam insulation?  [cough]  Do you feel it was worth it?

[HashBrownHarry]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

All suppliers will tell you the foam has flame retardants in it. What they don't tell you is, with the cycling of roof temperatures by day and night, those chemicals break down and are no longer effective. Might take a few years, but the risk will be there.

Pardon me for asking but how do you have so much knowledge of chemical properties and how they degrade?

 

 

[liddelljohn]

On 5/1/2020 at 3:15 PM, thainet said:

Well the answers on the 'stopping leaks' is NOT correct.

But firstly I have had it done in 2 houses. One in Pattaya and one in Chiangmai (same company did both).

1) Hot air in your house naturally rises, so with the foam the air cannot escape, so the areas above the ceilings (unless vented) are very hot.  (my experience over 20 years).

2) Once the foam hardens it is very strong, so it does serve as a barrier to the roof tiles and keeps them strong.

3) So now to the leaks.... Most modern houses in Thailand have many ridges on the roof where the tiles meet. These will crack or expand at some point and water will drip in and onto the ceiling. Ok these are quite easy to fix. 

But when the foam is sprayed onto the underside of the roof tiles it forms a barrier, which is part of it's appeal, BUT then any leak that would normally just drip, now cannot, so it runs down the inside of the tile ridge (between the tiles and the foam) and then exits wherever it finds a spot that hasn't been 100% covered with foam. Invariably this is near the lowest part of the ridge tile, but the actual area of tile or cement where the actual leak is, could be anywhere on the ridge spine, and so because it doesn't drip straight down, it is super hard to find.

eg: I had one for many years and it was impossible to find (due to my above explanation), so finally had to take off a large area of ridge tiles, clean, scrape the foam and reseal, then put new ridge tiles and regrout/seal etc. Big and expensive job.

 

So the OP asked for experience with foam, so as per my above missive, I have not used foam on any of my other houses since then.  Over the past 10-15 years all the houses I've built have reflective coated gypsum ceilings, extremely good ventilation through the eaves, and maybe 2-3 whirlybirds on the backside of the roof (where they are not seen).

With my experience I've found this method much better than the foam, plus of coarse a fraction of the price.

I am sure others think differently, but for me foam is not the way to go these days.

Anyway hope this has helped a few people. Cheers T.

 

 The above quote is similar to my experience ,,  I investigated foam roof caoting  in 2001  but decided the negative outweighed any positive ,, went for whirlybirds  at back of roof ,, and thick insulation abover ceilings ,, 8dg  dg lowering of temp in house on average , easy maintenance   no leaks and  , no high costs involved in foam spary .

[VocalNeal]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:36 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I suppose it all depends on your budget and the type of construction you have, because if it's a timber house with an iron roof and low clearance within the ceiling, nothing will sort it, the higher the roof pitch, the better your chances of getting that air moved through with vents, whirly birds, and vented eaves.

 

I'm thinking of misting the roof with one of those misting kits and use the latent heat of vaporization to do the cooling.  

[HashBrownHarry]

8 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

 The above quote is similar to my experience ,,  I investigated foam roof caoting  in 2001  but decided the negative outweighed any positive ,, went for whirlybirds  at back of roof ,, and thick insulation abover ceilings ,, 8dg  dg lowering of temp in house on average , easy maintenance   no leaks and  , no high costs involved in foam spary .

Whirly birds / roof vents not an option for me due to roof design.

 

Had it been an option would have tried before going to foam.