UK shadows Italy as worst hit in Europe: virus death toll passes 28,000

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Who said that they are not being admitted to hospital. Plenty of spare capacity all over country because there was no surge and I doubt there will be second wave.

 

Anyway without any pubs open or football on this country is pile of <deleted>. Truly is the most boring country I've ever been to, even the current pandemic is not very exciting.

You are perhaps best sticking to the footy:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/24/perfect-storm-care-homes-residents-refused-hospital-treatment/

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/elderly-people-coronavirus-denied-hospital-18038252

[kingdong]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson listens to one guy. Dominic Cummings. Still it will all come out when there is the inevitable public enquirey. I imagine Johnson will appoint Cummings to lead that and the report will sit on his desk next to the Russia report and will never see the light of day.

And the report will be sat on and released like the chilcott enquiry which was sat on for years and released the day after the brexit result.

[kingdong]

47 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The buck stops here.

What's Boris supposed to do?discover a cure single handedly?Seems all these so called experts haven,t got a clue.

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, sungod said:

Really?

 

This is dated 29th February, WHO still recommending against it saying its ineffective.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

 

I may be wrong, but if you can show me something that contradicts this then I'd be happy to be corrected.

Trump realises who are not worth a carrot,and has stopped their funding.

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How about Government failed callous herd immunity experiments, Government lies and half truths wrt death rates, people dying in nursing homes and not being admitted to hospital, PEP and medical equipment shortages, Nurse and Doctor shortages?

And what if there is a doctor and nurses shortage?can,t exactly import them from eastern Europe like the disease (laws of probability) ridden turnip pickers.

[bodga]

15 hours ago, edwinchester said:

The truth is not repugnant. The Tory Govt ignored their own committees report that the UK was woefully unprepared for such a pandemic as this four years ago, Boris Johnson skipped 5 COBRA meetings this year at the beginning of the crisis abroad leaving a leadership vacuum and lack of urgency in his own Cabinet, the Tories declined to do anything regards lockdown, curtailing travel, testing etc despite the overwhelming evidence coming in from abroad of those countries experiencing the pandemic earlier than the UK.

The Tories are directly responsible for thousands of uneccessary deaths and must be held responsible for their multiple failures and neglect of duty to protect the public and their own workers.

Labour  of  course  would  have  done  so  much  better, no,  they  are  ALL useless.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

What's Boris supposed to do?discover a cure single handedly? Seems all these so called experts haven,t got a clue.

 

 

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Unfortunately, for the haters Johnson's personal rating remains increasingly high.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Because his advisors had advised him that the threat was only moderate. A fact conveniently overlooked by the anti-Boris brigade. 

It turns out those advisors were wrong, but that wasn't the PM's fault. 

The PM and his Government’s defense in the face of their failed herd immunity experiment and the ever climbing death count that it has given rise to is to claim they were following the advice of experts.

 

However there were widely differing expert opinions and is facile to suggest that any expert in epidemiologist would, faced with having to offer advice would only consider one scenario or offer a single course of action. 

 

If the Government wishes to offer a defense of following expert advice then the  Government needs to also reveal the full range of advice the experts gave and explain how policy decisions were made, what advice was received, what advice was rejected and why.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, kingdong said:

What's Boris supposed to do?discover a cure single handedly?Seems all these so called experts haven,t got a clue.

Having his hands on the steering wheel rather than dodging COBRA meetings and swanning around with his g/f might be a start.

 

He might also take responsibility and accountability for the decisions he made rather than offering the excuse he was only following expert advice.

 

Lets see the expert advice he was given, all of it.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Having his hands on the steering wheel rather than dodging COBRA meetings and swanning around with his g/f might be a start.

 

He might also take responsibility and accountability for the decisions he made rather than offering the excuse he was only following expert advice.

 

Lets see the expert advice he was given, all of it.

Vague and generalised accusations,what specifically could be have done better? I say again 3 months into it and these so called experts still haven,t got a clue,so I ask again what glaring act of negligence has he been proved to have commited?

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Vague and generalised accusations,what specifically could be have done better? I say again 3 months into it and these so called experts still haven,t got a clue,so I ask again what glaring act of negligence has he been proved to have commited?

The fact he should have locked down in early March rather than walking around shaking hands with corona virus victims and singing happy birthday.

[Rookiescot]

27 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 

Unfortunately, for the haters Johnson's personal rating remains increasingly high.

 

 

 

From what I can see his personal popularity rating is 34% positive 47% negative.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

[kingdong]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The fact he should have locked down in early March rather than walking around shaking hands with corona virus victims and singing happy birthday.

I,m sure he agrees with you seeing as he nearly died from it,what a wonderfull thing is hindsight.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I,m sure he agrees with you seeing as he nearly died from it,what a wonderfull thing is hindsight.

Had we not all been witnessing what was happening in China and Italy then yes I would agree.

But the fact is Johnson could also see what was happening and chose not to lock down. At that time a policy of herd immunity was popular with those in power in order to protect the economy.

Just because Johnson was a victim of his own folly regarding corona garners no sympathy from me. 

[sungod]

32 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The fact he should have locked down in early March rather than walking around shaking hands with corona virus victims and singing happy birthday.

A few posts back you said he was told by WHO to lock down in Feb (he wasn't), now you say he should have done it early March, which one is it?

 

I posted a link dated 29th Feb saying WHO were against the idea, are you suggesting its OK to ignore their advice?

 

Man, you do more u turns that the health minister of Thailand!!!!

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I,m sure he agrees with you seeing as he nearly died from it,what a wonderfull thing is hindsight.

Engage this hindsight and tell us what he got right?

[hotandsticky]

38 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

From what I can see his personal popularity rating is 34% positive 47% negative.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson

 

 

The coronavirus crisis has reshaped his image as a man of action, boosting his overall approval to 71 percent.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has seen a similar boost, with her approval rating rising by 11 points to 79 percent.

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1272069/Boris-Johnson-approval-rating-what-is-Boris-Johnson-approval-rate

 

 

 

Could be worse..... https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Jeremy_Corbyn

Edited May 4, 2020 by hotandsticky

[JonnyF]

The UK should have closed the borders several weeks ago, Australia style. Obviously all the leftist hand wringers would have screamed Racism, Islamophobia, little Englanders or some other nonsensical stock response but that would have been a small price to pay for a real difference to the number of infections.

 

They should also have encouraged the use of face masks much more than they have.

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I,m sure he agrees with you seeing as he nearly died from it,what a wonderfull thing is hindsight.

No, not hindsight, what he did was contradictory to all, all, medical advice.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The UK should have closed the borders several weeks ago, Australia style. Obviously all the leftist hand wringers would have screamed Racism, Islamophobia, little Englanders or some other nonsensical stock response but that would have been a small price to pay for a real difference to the number of infections.

 

They should also have encouraged the use of face masks much more than they have.

So you're criticising the government for inaction, and at the same time you're trying to put the blame on leftist hand wringers.

Edited May 4, 2020 by stevenl

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The UK should have closed the borders several weeks ago, Australia style. Obviously all the leftist hand wringers would have screamed Racism, Islamophobia, little Englanders or some other nonsensical stock response but that would have been a small price to pay for a real difference to the number of infections.

 

They should also have encouraged the use of face masks much more than they have.

 

 

I would probably agree with that. Although with face masks they were on a hiding to nothing.... listen to the science, listen to WHO - they did.  Thailand didn't but Idon't believe for one moment that face masks were the reason for the low level of Covid-19 cases.

 

Interestingly though, I read a report earlier that suggested Australia will have big problems down the road with any future outbreaks as they have developed little immunity.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The UK should have closed the borders several weeks ago, Australia style. Obviously all the leftist hand wringers would have screamed Racism, Islamophobia, little Englanders or some other nonsensical stock response but that would have been a small price to pay for a real difference to the number of infections.

 

They should also have encouraged the use of face masks much more than they have.

So who do you believe is responsible for not closing the borders?

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

A few posts back you said he was told by WHO to lock down in Feb (he wasn't), now you say he should have done it early March, which one is it?

 

I posted a link dated 29th Feb saying WHO were against the idea, are you suggesting its OK to ignore their advice?

 

Man, you do more u turns that the health minister of Thailand!!!!

30th of January the WHO declared corona 19 a PHEIC. Thats a public health emergency of international concern. Johnson did nothing.

11th March WHO declared corona 19 as a pandemic. Johnson did nothing.

By the 13th of March the whole of Italy was on lockdown. Johnson did nothing.

 

Now is that an accurate enough timeline for you?

 

Basically one trend can be seen through all of this. Johnson doing nothing when he could see what was happening elsewhere. 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

The coronavirus crisis has reshaped his image as a man of action, boosting his overall approval to 71 percent.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has seen a similar boost, with her approval rating rising by 11 points to 79 percent.

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1272069/Boris-Johnson-approval-rating-what-is-Boris-Johnson-approval-rate

 

 

 

Could be worse..... https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Jeremy_Corbyn

A poll for the express? Where was it conducted? Conservative party central office? Or was it a show of hands in the express office?

 

Oh and from the text of the article you linked.

 

According to polling experts with YouGov, Boris Johnson currently has an approval rating of 34 percent.

Public perception of the Prime Minister is mostly negative, as the market research firm reports 47 percent of people have a negative opinion of him.

 

Which is the figures I posted.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rookiescot

[Kadilo]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

30th of January the WHO declared corona 19 a PHEIC. Thats a public health emergency of international concern. Johnson did nothing.

11th March WHO declared corona 19 as a pandemic. Johnson did nothing.

By the 13th of March the whole of Italy was on lockdown. Johnson did nothing.

 

Now is that an accurate enough timeline for you?

 

Basically one trend can be seen through all of this. Johnson doing nothing when he could see what was happening elsewhere. 

 

Not exactly doing nothing. Going around shaking hands with everyone including people in hospital with the virus. No surprise he, Hancock and others ended up contracting the virus. 

[sungod]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

30th of January the WHO declared corona 19 a PHEIC. Thats a public health emergency of international concern. Johnson did nothing.

11th March WHO declared corona 19 as a pandemic. Johnson did nothing.

By the 13th of March the whole of Italy was on lockdown. Johnson did nothing.

 

Now is that an accurate enough timeline for you?

 

Basically one trend can be seen through all of this. Johnson doing nothing when he could see what was happening elsewhere. 

 

You told us before WHO told UK to lock down in Feb, they didn't.

 

I asked you to back your comment up, you didnt

 

WHO were still advising against lock down on the last day of Feb, yet you say UK should have done it earlier. I asked you a question if its OK to ignore WHO advise, you failed to answer. 

 

Got a job to believe anything you post........made up fairy tales to satisfy your politics

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

You told us before WHO told UK to lock down in Feb, they didn't.

 

I asked you to back your comment up, you didnt

 

WHO were still advising against lock down on the last day of Feb, yet you say UK should have done it earlier. I asked you a question if its OK to ignore WHO advise, you failed to answer. 

 

Got a job to believe anything you post........made up fairy tales to satisfy your politics

I have given you a timeline.

Now tell us how everyone else is using the benefit of hindsight when you have the timeline in front of you.

You are simply trying to prevaricate and obfuscate.

Why did Johnson do nothing to either control or prepare for the corona virus when he could see what was happening in other countries? 

[sungod]

54 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I have given you a timeline.

Now tell us how everyone else is using the benefit of hindsight when you have the timeline in front of you.

You are simply trying to prevaricate and obfuscate.

Why did Johnson do nothing to either control or prepare for the corona virus when he could see what was happening in other countries? 

Johnson did prepare and try to control, just not the way you wanted him to!!! But seems the death toll in Europe is far higher than the rest of the world, perhaps following their example cost more lives.....

 

Now, I've answered your question, now answer the ones you have continually refused to. Prevaricate and obfuscate, interesting choice of words, described yourself down to a tee.

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

30th of January the WHO declared corona 19 a PHEIC. Thats a public health emergency of international concern. Johnson did nothing.

11th March WHO declared corona 19 as a pandemic. Johnson did nothing.

By the 13th of March the whole of Italy was on lockdown. Johnson did nothing.

 

Now is that an accurate enough timeline for you?

 

Basically one trend can be seen through all of this. Johnson doing nothing when he could see what was happening elsewhere. 

 

And how do you think the British public would have reacted if the UK PM ordered a national lockdown because Italy had been hit by a pandemic? Remember, the UK has not been materially affected by any of the multiple pandemics for 100 years. And you expected the government to crash the economy and put millions into poverty just in case this pandemic did make it to our shores? 

 

You and the rest of the Tory haters would have been on here calling them all sorts of names for over reacting. 

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

17 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Because his advisors had advised him that the threat was only moderate. A fact conveniently overlooked by the anti-Boris brigade. 

It turns out those advisors were wrong, but that wasn't the PM's fault. 

Johnson listens to one guy. Dominic Cummings. Still it will all come out when there is the inevitable public enquirey. I imagine Johnson will appoint Cummings to lead that and the report will sit on his desk next to the Russia report and will never see the light of day.

You're wrong. Cummings was pushing for an earlier lock down during the COBRA meetings, but he was overruled. Johnson listened to SAGE and NERVTAG despite what Cummings was pushing for. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdown