Lightning, tall trees and a rice mill.

[bannork]

I'm planning to install a rice mill to the left of the two tall Burmese hardwood trees in the enclosed photo. My brother-in-law says I must cut down the 2 trees as they might act as a lightning rod which will seriously damage the rice mill. 

Is this likely? The 2 trees have never been hit in all these years but could the presence of the rice mill increase that likelihood?

Thanking any informed replies in advance 

 

[Crossy]

Does your rice mill have any electronics?

 

[northsouthdevide]

I'm no expert, but isn't it possible to install a lightning conductor on your rice mill? 

On reading your post, my first reaction was, does your brother in law want the wood from the trees, but after looking at the pic, I don't see many planks in them, so he could have a genuine concern about lightning. 

[Tagged]

Do you have papers on the trees? If not, check with ampur if you are alowed to cut the trees. Same on the land here, no lightening strikes on the old trees around, and in the houses we have installed lightening conductor. 

[bannork]

The brother-in-law doesn't want any wood. He has a solitary large tree on his land which was struck by lightning and he fears the same here too. The rice mill has to use an extra transformer rather than just the house one.

I believe under the law now anyone can grow and cut down payung ( Siamese Rosewood), bratdu ( Burmese hardwood) which is what these 2 trees are. 

But I would rather change the location of the rice mill than cut down these 2 trees.

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

The brother-in-law doesn't want any wood. He has a solitary large tree on his land which was struck by lightning and he fears the same here too. The rice mill has to use an extra transformer rather than just the house one.

I believe under the law now anyone can grow and cut down payung ( Siamese Rosewood), bratdu ( Burmese hardwood) which is what these 2 trees are. 

But I would rather change the location of the rice mill than cut down these 2 trees.

Just wanted to give you or anyone around who read this, there is some laws about cutting trees. We are not allowed to cut old farmland trees here without papers, so the farmes but copper spikes, poison, burn them to make them die. As well we planted Yang Na trees, and needed to register as a treefarm, to be able to cut them later. Rosewood, I do not know. 

[Crossy]

Just how far from the trees will your mill be?

 

Bang a rod on the mill too for good measure, but unless you have sensitive electronics I wouldn't be worrying too much.

 

And ensure you have suitable insurance in place against electrical damage.

[VocalNeal]

Lightning strikes the highest point as it did with your BIL's tree. Putting a building in the vicinity of the trees will not attract lightning.  Are there any other trees the same height within say 100m? 

If really concerned you can add a lightning rod to the building. 

 

The trees might provide shade to your building?

[khwaibah]

The law for the harvesting of rosewood on private land was changed Can not give link but check the Bangkok Post "Precious trees to become cash crop" 8 AUG 2018 AT 03:08

[Tagged]

21 minutes ago, khwaibah said:

The law for the harvesting of rosewood on private land was changed Can not give link but check the Bangkok Post "Precious trees to become cash crop" 8 AUG 2018 AT 03:08

So this is not Por bor or tor land? You have Chanote? 

[Fruit Trader]

39 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Lightning strikes the highest point as it did with your BIL's tree. Putting a building in the vicinity of the trees will not attract lightning.  Are there any other trees the same height within say 100m? 

If really concerned you can add a lightning rod to the building. 

 

The trees might provide shade to your building?

Lightning can strike almost anywhere even halfway down an antenna tower or at ground level close to tall trees and buildings.

 

Fitting lightning conductors to buildings reduces risk of structural damage but can increase the risk of damage to electronic systems. This is why special surge protect methods are applied to buildings fitted with lightning conductors.

[Tagged]

Found the link, and it states as follow:

 

Precious trees to become 'cash crop'

 

 

"The forestry law will be amended to allow precious trees grown on private property to be felled, sold or put up as collateral with the bank without permission from the authorities, said Nathporn Chatusripitak, an adviser to the Prime Minister's Office."

 

The trees in question include teak, para rubber wood, chingchan(Burmese rosewood) and phayung (Siamese rosewood).

 

"The land, however, must have legal ownership papers: The title deed, Nor Sor 3, Nor Sor 3 Kor, Nor Sor 3 Khor, Nor Sor 2 or Sor Khor 1."

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1517598/precious-trees-to-become-cash-crop

[VocalNeal]

10 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Lightning can strike almost anywhere even halfway down an antenna tower or at ground level close to tall trees and buildings.

 

Fitting lightning conductors to buildings reduces risk of structural damage but can increase the risk of damage to electronic systems. This is why special surge protect methods are applied to buildings fitted with lightning conductors.

So gives more credence to the fact that it is not necessary to fell the two trees in question?

[Fruit Trader]

37 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

So gives more credence to the fact that it is not necessary to fell the two trees in question?

Our packing shed contains some sensitive electronics and has tall trees close by. My biggest concern is keeping nasty stuff on the supply lines in check. We often shut down the weighing and packing process when lightning gets close.

 

We had a lightning conductor on the old packing shed which has now been removed and donated to a half wooden house owned by family. 

[talahtnut]

My old place in UK gets whacked quite often, fitted an ESE rod.

You can consult directly with the INGESCO engineering

department and that they will carry out a free study, in

accordance to the international regulations and detail it

in a technical report if it is necessary to install an external

protection system against lightning, or if you prefer, you

can carry out the study with the free ingesco software.

Tip, in a storm, tie a couple of sausages to the conductor.

 

 

[carlyai]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Lightning strikes the highest point as it did with your BIL's tree. Putting a building in the vicinity of the trees will not attract lightning.  Are there any other trees the same height within say 100m? 

If really concerned you can add a lightning rod to the building. 

 

The trees might provide shade to your building?

I don't think you are quite correct. Lightning doesn't always strike the highest point. I've been on a small hill and seen lightning strike a tree in a valley and also not hit a 300' TV tower.

Working at a TV transmitter station, on top of a mountain range with a some large tower we got struck regularly but usually not much electronic damage. I think the lightning strikes tend to travel through the walls to ground or which ever way you think electricity flows.

I think that if the trees do not normally get struck by lightning you should be OK.

[Time to grow]

Attract lightning, Hogwash! The trees provide shade, moisture, and life. You should be thankful you have those beautiful trees. 

 

I used to live on a sailboat and and I can tell you, sitting in a small sailboat with a fifty foot aluminum mast directly over your head during a lightning storm will get your attention. I did a lot of research on lightning back then to ease this situation. I was once moored in a marina with many other vessels, both sailboats and powerboats during a lightning storm. Down the dock another fifty feet from me was a mega yacht with a 150 foot aluminum mast and lots of stainless rigging to support it. I assumed I would be well within his shadow if someone were going to get hit. Getting out of the rain belowdecks, there was suddenly an awl mighty crack of deafening proportions. I was confident that I hadn't been hit but I knew the victim wasn't far from me. After the storm, I came out to survey the damage. I first looked at the mega yacht for evidence of the strike but as it turned out, a powerboat with twin VHF antennas 50 feet in the opposite direction was hit. One of the VHF antennas was splayed open and scorched. No people were aboard the vessel at the time and I never found out if there was additional damage or not. The point is, this powerboat with antennas maybe 25 to 30 feet above the water was within 30 feet of other sailboats and their much taller masts. Only about 100 feet from this great mega yacht with it's 150 foot mast. This proved to me, lightning may go for the highest conductor but it must be the highest conductor within an extremely small circle. In this case, less than a 30 foot radius.

 

Please don't cut down the trees. 

[carlyai]

Just a bit on your power supply to the rice mill.

I suppose you will be using 3 phase supply for your motors. I say this because the rice mill in our compound had a 3 phase supply. 

I now use this 3 phase supply for my house and as well as Metal Oxide Varisters (MOV's) on the incoming supply, to help protect against lightning current surges, I have a 3 phase SafetyCut (brand name) that senses imbalance in current between neutral and active lines of a phase. If there is an inbalance the breaker trips. I have no technical reference for this but if lightning strikes get close, the SafetyCut trips, protecting the house, and I reset it after the storm goes. There doesn't seem to be any nuisance trips, but it only trips occasionally. I consider the SafetyCut (RCBO) another lightning protection aid.

 

[bannork]

Thank you for all your helpful advice fellow posters.

We will be using a special transformer for the rice mill, it's bigger than the normal family ones, about 150,000 baht. I will ask about the 3 phrase. 

I think the brother-in-law is primarily worried about lightning hitting one of the trees which may catch fire and damage the rice mill. He has a solitary tree in his field which suffered that fate. 

But I will never cut down these 2 trees. I love their shade, their strength and height. Plus we never planted them, they came of their own accord.

I would rather find a new location for the rice mill. 

 

[talahtnut]

bannork My compliments on your super tidy farm.