Our cold water is extremely warm - solutions please?

[cliveshep]

We have two big tanks linked together, 1000 litres each, supplying water to the house by means of a pump. I installed the system personally and it is brilliant in terms of flow-rate and pressure. Recently we built an extension and were able to move the tanks inside. The extension has window openings with security bar grills and mosquito screens but no glass, we have drop-down corrugated or pvc roll shutters/blinds for storm conditions but otherwise air is free to blow through from the open farm land on one side out to the front garden the other side.

 

Like everywhere else the ambient air temperature which is too high for an Englishman is now warming the tanks in the Summer heat so that a refreshing shower no longer exists, the water being just to the side of hot at around 35C cooling down to 29C at night. It would be so nice to enjoy a cool shower without waiting for the 2 or 3 days of "Winter" in December! 

 

Is there any semi-portable system that acts like a reversed immersion heater that can be suspended in the tanks to cool them, or a cooling unit that does not cost an arm and a leg plus all the blood that can be installed in-line with the suction or delivery pipes of our pump to cool water "on demand"? Our pump is a 1" Kikawa KQ Automatic series that delivers some serious water flow and pressure to all 4 bathrooms plus kitchen and outside taps - not necessarily all at once but our delivery pipes are 1" stepping down at appliances.

[Crossy]

"Songkran" style block or two from the local ice man?

 

Drop in the tank a bit before your shower, bliss.

 

 

[blackcab]

Before you buy any equipment, have you tried having a fan blowing air on you while you shower?

 

This needs to be done in a safe manner. Do not put yourself at even the slightest risk of electrocution.

[RichCor]

Alternative installations, albeit an expensive ones, would be

(1) to bury the tanks under ground so their thermal mass is the same as earth.

(2) wrap the tanks in insulation and have the warm water circulate through a ground-buried heat-exchanger.

 

Also, Previous threads:

 

Cooling down my water tank
By Andrew Dwyer, May 3, 2019 in DIY housing forum

[cliveshep]

3 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Before you buy any equipment, have you tried having a fan blowing air on you while you shower?

 

This needs to be done in a safe manner. Do not put yourself at even the slightest risk of electrocution.

Actually that makes a lot of sense as we shower in front of an open window (not perverts - we back onto open farm-land now fallow for the last 4 years) and when a breeze blows it does feel cold on bare wet skin.

 

For Crossy - a workable idea but with 2 tanks and ice at 50 baht a sack we'd be looking at 100 baht a day, or 3000 a month plus the drive to collect the ice - with a family of 6 no practicable sadly!

 

[DavisH]

What about some kind of reflective material t wrap around the tanks? Something like the sheeting used inside ceilings. Or make a small shelter to shade the tanks, or comvine that with the insulation. 

[Pilotman]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Before you buy any equipment, have you tried having a fan blowing air on you while you shower?

 

This needs to be done in a safe manner. Do not put yourself at even the slightest risk of electrocution.

"Do not put yourself at even the slightest risk of electrocution". 

 

So don't live in Thailand  then? ????

[overherebc]

Depends on the pressure coming in from the mains so if high enough fit a couple of stop valves ( I take it you've got the standard blue pipe ) and a line direct to a shower head in the shower room. 

Stop valve on the feed from the pump closed and stop valve open for the mains feed. 

Usually still cold as it's a well buried system.

[cliveshep]

I thought about that foil-wrap but it is ambient air temperature making the tanks hot, they are inside the room and under a ceiling under a roof and to one side of an open window that has a canopy - the sun cannot shine on them.

 

Fair comment about electricity - I did all ours apart from lights because those circuits are inaccessible above our top floor ceiling. I had a new 12-way breaker box fitted, and drove down a grid of 2 metre copper rods outside all round the house, all linked, bonded to th e earth connection in the box, bonded to metals stud partitions and steel frame of extension and work-shop so I have hopefully created an equipotential enclosure. 

 

Power circuits on the kitchen and elsewhere I have done personally after our air-con man refused to connect new units when he saw what our builder had done - I re-did all the builder connections, no twist and tape anywhere, all ratchet crimp connections in enclosures!

[cliveshep]

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Depends on the pressure coming in from the mains so if high enough fit a couple of stop valves ( I take it you've got the standard blue pipe ) and a line direct to a shower head in the shower room. 

Stop valve on the feed from the pump closed and stop valve open for the mains feed. 

Usually still cold as it's a well buried system.

Pressure is pathetic which is why the tanks and pump were needed. The pipes down the sois are buried but are too small for the number of connections I think. Impractical in this house to run more pipes and we have 4 bathrooms to supply, two are en-suite, two are shared - one up one downstairs.

Edited May 10, 2020 by cliveshep

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Pressure is pathetic which is why the tanks and pump were needed. The pipes down the sois are buried but are too small for the number of connections I think.

Add a low pressure supply pump to the mains to shower branch.  4/5000 baht.

After valve 2

On looking again you don't need valve 3

Edited May 10, 2020 by overherebc

[HashBrownHarry]

30 minutes ago, Crossy said:

"Songkran" style block or two from the local ice man?

 

Drop in the tank a bit before your shower, bliss.

 

 

For a 1000litre tank ( if full ) you'd need a massive amount of ice to cool it down from ambient outside temp.

[Surelynot]

Separate water tank inside the bathroom..... a bit like the old toilet cistern. It will at least cool to room temp' which I imagine will feel cool when you shower.

[Buri utd]

Polystyrene wrap insulation, keeps the water cold in high summer and warm winter 

[CGW]

This time of year I always end up questioning the wisdom of painting Stainless tank Matt black? ????

Majority of the year never think about it!

[RichCor]

26 minutes ago, RichCor said:

Alternative installations

(3) Evaporative cooling, letting small amounts of water pour down the outside of the tanks.  

 

(4) You could completely close off the new extension and insulate the hell out of it so the tanks stayed cool. 

 

[Crossy]

18 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

For a 1000litre tank ( if full ) you'd need a massive amount of ice to cool it down from ambient outside temp.

 

About 62kg of ice would cool 1,000L by 5C. A much smaller "farang shower" tank would use much less ice of course.

 

I did post with my tongue place firmly in my cheek of course ????

 

I'll bet the local aircon man would be able to knock up something to chill a smallish tank nicely.

 

EDIT A practical idea.

A 200L "cold" tank with the evaporator from an 8,000BTU aircon would cool by 10C in an hour.

It would cost about 4 Baht in electricity.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

About 62kg of ice would cool 1,000L by 5C. A much smaller "farang shower" tank would use much less ice of course.

 

I did post with my tongue place firmly in my cheek of course ????

 

I'll bet the local aircon man would be able to knock up something to chill a smallish tank nicely.

 

A 62kg block of ice would be very difficult to insert in a standard 1000 litre vertical tank, it would drop 5C with a starting temp of?

 

Like you say though, i'm sure there's a 'Thai' fix.

 

Right now the water that sits in the pipe static is getting incredibly hot, i've by-passed my surface tanks and go straight from the well, much much cooler. Bit dodgy tho if a valve gets closed before shutting off sub pump!!

[anterian]

|I find this thread strange, the one thing I like about the hot season is I get a nice warm shower, I definitely would not like an English water cold shower.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, HashBrownHarry said:

it would drop 5C with a starting temp of?

 

Whatever you like, that's why I quoted a delta-t.

 

Use 3 x 20kg blocks ????

 

[HashBrownHarry]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

About 62kg of ice would cool 1,000L by 5C. A much smaller "farang shower" tank would use much less ice of course.

 

I did post with my tongue place firmly in my cheek of course ????

 

I'll bet the local aircon man would be able to knock up something to chill a smallish tank nicely.

 

EDIT A practical idea.

A 200L "cold" tank with the evaporator from an 8,000BTU aircon would cool by 10C in an hour.

It would cost about 4 Baht in electricity.

 

The cold tank idea is interesting....

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

The cold tank idea is interesting....

 

It could actually work.

 

Our condo in KL had a chilled pool, it wasn't that cold but after a sweaty day on site it was absolute bliss ????

 

https://www.dolphinpools.co.uk/saunas/calorex-plunge-pool-chillers

 

 

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

It could actually work.

 

Our condo in KL had a chilled pool, it wasn't that cold but after a sweaty day on site it was absolute bliss ????

 

https://www.dolphinpools.co.uk/saunas/calorex-plunge-pool-chillers

 

 

Any alternate water that's not ambient temp right now would be a bonus, it's certainly el scorchio!

[Crossy]

23 minutes ago, RichCor said:

(4) You could completely close off the new extension and insulate the hell out of it so the tanks stayed cool. 

 

Add an aircon for extra cooling, would work and nothing that couldn't be sourced locally.

 

As a bonus you could keep your beer stocks in there too.

[OnTheGround]

Last days heatwave with "feels like 42-43 degrees", my shower water is hot as fire. 2 huge water tanks are in the shadow, all day. Still.

My own solution was to use (laugh away) the Bum Gun to shower. Its much cooler water for some reason, although I acknowledge it looks beyond stupid????

 

[Artisi]

Below ground thermal exchange is the only way to cool the water for free after the initial costs. 

 

[Moonlover]

The Thai way. Simple and cheap. Works a treat.

[sherwood]

I just went outside for a cool shower from my well pump, outdoor shower. Not that cool and the water is pumped from about 6 mtrs down.

It feels like 42c outside. Hot.

If you find a solution let me know.

[JensenZ]

17 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

The Thai way. Simple and cheap. Works a treat.

You beat me to it. This will provide a refreshing "shower" on the hottest of days. The bigger the drum the better, and only top it up when it's nearly empty.

[VocalNeal]

Move to Norway?