Visa Options - Non-Immigrant O-A expires soon

[been2cb4]

I have the required monthly income but haven't been able to get the "list" from either of two branches of my bank (BKK). Any ideas?

[Langsuan Man]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:20 AM, Peter Denis said:

Hi @Langsuan Man

Did you overlook my post #22, suggesting a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa which would allow you to stay max 9 months in Thailand. 

 

No, I did not overlook your suggestion of a METV but am confused by :

 

Quote

with 2 border-runs OR 1 border-run and two 30-day extensions

How could I get two 30-day extensions after the 1 border run option ? 

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, Langsuan Man said:

How could I get two 30-day extensions after the 1 border run option ? 

Enter 60 days extend 30 border run new 60 days extend 30.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

I have the required monthly income but haven't been able to get the "list" from either of two branches of my bank (BKK). Any ideas?

I presume you are referring to the required 12-month bank-statement to prove that you made monthly foreign origin transfers of 65K, needed when applying for a 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement.

But some more info is needed in order to provide a meaningful response:

- Is the presumption above correct?

- To which thai bank did you make those foreign origin transfers?

- What is your local IO where you need to apply for the 1-year extension?

- When is that application due?

- Any other info of relevance...

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

I have the required monthly income but haven't been able to get the "list" from either of two branches of my bank (BKK). Any ideas?

I assume you mean the letter showing all of your transfers. Not all offices are asking for it. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

Most will now accept one year of bank statements. That is all I needed last year along with the standard bank letter.

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

How could I get two 30-day extensions after the 1 border run option ?

@lopburi3 already responded.

But for sake of clarity:

1 - Enter Thailand with your METV > you will be stamped in for a 60-day permission to stay

2 - In the last week of those 60-days, apply for a 30-day extension at any local IO (which is added to the last day of that previous permission, so no loss of days when applying earlier)

3 - At the very end of that 30-day permission, do a border-run to a convenient border-crossing from where you are staying

4- When re-entering Thailand (can be done same day) you will be stamped in again for a 60-day permission to stay

5 - In the last week of that 2nd 60-days permission to stay, apply for a 30-day extension at any local IO (cost 1.900 THB)

>> When doing the border-run (step 3) on the very last day of that 30-day permission to stay, the above will provide you with 180 days stay in Thailand.

Note:  If you need some extra days (e.g. because of flight schedule back home) instead of a same-day border-run, stay the necessary days in the country you went to (e.g. a visit to SiemReap - Angkor Wat for a couple of days would be a nice holiday break).

 

[Langsuan Man]

Thanks both to lopburi3 and Peter Denis, crystal clear now, and I would prefer to spend my money on a border trip to a nearby country instead of supporting this Immigration / Insurance cabal 

[been2cb4]

I apologize for not being more clear. I have an Non-Imm marriage extension. I have used this type for several years and I had no trouble but immigration wants a new "list" of deposits from oversea. The statement with highlights and bank book with highlights no longer satisfies them. I can't seem to convince my bank, Bangkok Bank, to create this. It's simple cut and paste but no joy yet. I'm going to make a sample and take to the bank but I have little hope. I now have to use Transferwise to get mu money as the US has stopped ACH transfers. I'm just wondering how others are handling this. Surely, I'm not the only person to run into this road block.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, been2cb4 said:

I apologize for not being more clear. I have an Non-Imm marriage extension. I have used this type for several years and I had no trouble but immigration wants a new "list" of deposits from oversea. The statement with highlights and bank book with highlights no longer satisfies them. I can't seem to convince my bank, Bangkok Bank, to create this. It's simple cut and paste but no joy yet. I'm going to make a sample and take to the bank but I have little hope. I now have to use Transferwise to get mu money as the US has stopped ACH transfers. I'm just wondering how others are handling this. Surely, I'm not the only person to run into this road block.

@Tanoshi , who is very well acquainted with bank IO-related matters, might be able to shine some light on the issue you are confronted with.

Note: When you used TransferWise for your monthly transfers, a transfer receipt in PDF-format of every transfer you made is available on your TW-Account, and is accepted by most IOs.  That transfer-receipt is irrefutable evidence that you transfered the amount from your account abroad to your thai bank-account, and the amounts transfered will be fully aligned with your bank-book incoming credits. 

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

I can't seem to convince my bank, Bangkok Bank, to create this. It's simple cut and paste but no joy yet. I'm going to make a sample and take to the bank but I have little hope.

I posted an example here.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I assume you mean the letter showing all of your transfers. Not all offices are asking for it. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

 

31 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

I now have to use Transferwise to get mu money as the US has stopped ACH transfers. I'm just wondering how others are handling this.

Are your transfers going into your Bangkok Bank account and are coded as FTT.

If not you will need to get credit advices for them to do the letter.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, been2cb4 said:

I apologize for not being more clear. I have an Non-Imm marriage extension. I have used this type for several years and I had no trouble but immigration wants a new "list" of deposits from oversea. The statement with highlights and bank book with highlights no longer satisfies them. I can't seem to convince my bank, Bangkok Bank, to create this. It's simple cut and paste but no joy yet. I'm going to make a sample and take to the bank but I have little hope. I now have to use Transferwise to get mu money as the US has stopped ACH transfers. I'm just wondering how others are handling this. Surely, I'm not the only person to run into this road block.

It appears your IO are requesting an itemised statement of just the monthly overseas transfers.

An example of this kind of statement has already been posted by UJ.

 Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

This could be because your IO are not satisfied all the transfers were 'International', or like my IO they just cannot understand the columns or coding's of Passbooks or Bank statements, or more to the point they're just to lazy to pull the transfers out of a list of transactions. (Even when highlighted for ease).

 

With regard to obtaining the requested itemised statement from your Bangkok Bank branch.

Branches have access to your local account which only goes back 6 months.

Some branches can print a 6 month statement, whilst others can print a 12 month statement by accessing their Head Office account.

Again, not all bank employees have the authority or knowledge to access your HQ account.

 

If you have a 12 month bank statement, I suggest you take that, along with a printout of the example letter posted here to your branch. They may be reluctant to do this.

The alternative is to visit your Immigration office and have them phone your branch and describe exactly what they want and in what form.

 

If any of your transfers were not coded as FTT or International, then you'll have to request 'credit advice' receipts from Bangkok Bank as proof of overseas transfers.

[been2cb4]

I've tried almost all of that already. I am printing out each Transferwise statement but I'm not sure that will be official enough for CNX immigration. They seemed determined to make things as difficult as possible. I will also grovel at my local branch one more time. I have that sample letter that's gone around but that didn't seem to inspire them.

Not all the transfers are coded FTT. Some are listed as SMART. I don't understand that as all come from the same bank and go through Transferwise. I've asked but haven't gotten anything I can understand in response. My wife is very intimidated by every "official" person so doesn't always ask what I ask.

Thanks to all who've chipped in on this.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, been2cb4 said:

Not all the transfers are coded FTT. Some are listed as SMART. I don't understand that as all come from the same bank and go through Transferwise. I've asked but haven't gotten anything I can understand in response.

When you make the transfer you must select the reason for transfer as being the last item listed (stay in Thailand) to be sure Bangkok Bank gets the money directly and you get the FTT code.

[been2cb4]

I had no idea about choosing stay in Thailand. I always select Monthly living expenses as does the friend that refereed me to Transferwise. I called him about this and like me he can't get his head around why the difference but I'll certainly make that change next month.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

I had no idea about choosing stay in Thailand. I always select Monthly living expenses as does the friend that refereed me to Transferwise. I called him about this and like me he can't get his head around why the difference but I'll certainly make that change next month.

Bangkok Bank is one of the 3 partner banks of TransferWise, so your transfers will go directly to your account.  But you do need to choose the "long term stay in Thailand" option in the reason for transfer in your transfer applications.  And then your transfers will show the FTT code, meaning they are coded as international transfers.

For the ones that got a different coding, you could use the TranferWise transfer-receipts to prove that these also came from your foreign bank-account.

@Tanoshi's post #41 explained how to get the 12-month bank-statement.  If the clerk at your BKK Bank branch does not know or has no authority to access the HQ-database, ask for the branch manager who will know how to get it (but might take up to 7 days if your local branch cannot produce it themselves).

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, been2cb4 said:

Not all the transfers are coded FTT. Some are listed as SMART. I don't understand that as all come from the same bank and go through Transferwise. I've asked but haven't gotten anything I can understand in response. My wife is very intimidated by every "official" person so doesn't always ask what I ask.

There's your problem!

When using TW if the transfer goes through their Bangkok bank partner to your Bangkok bank account it will be coded as 'FTT' (Foreign Telex Transfer).

If the transfers go through one of their other partner banks, Kasikorn or TMB to your Bangkok account they are coded 'SMART', basically a local transfer from one Thai bank to another.

 

From your TW account you can print of pdf receipts for each transaction (which will show which Thai bank it went through to your Bangkok bank account) but moreover the currency and exchange rate, which is proof of a foreign transaction, but not to say your IO will accept those as proof, although my IO and the Regional office (Khon Kaen) have accepted them.

 

Alternatively, you can ask Bangkok Bank about credit receipts for the 'SMART' transfers.

[beachbuggy]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:45 AM, Peter Denis said:

Compare that with a retirement-extension where the 800K is to be kept two months before the application and three months after it, and for the remaining 7 months the balance should not go under 400K.

Peter Dennis, I am on OA with health insurance, which is valid until Jan 2021. At the moment I do not have 400k in my account as I withdrew all my monies in April with a view to going back to UK. Decided to stay here so if I transfer monies back now will I be ok when applying for a new extension next Jan or have I made life difficult for myself?

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, ragabob said:

Peter Dennis, I am on OA with health insurance, which is valid until Jan 2021. At the moment I do not have 400k in my account as I withdrew all my monies in April with a view to going back to UK. Decided to stay here so if I transfer monies back now will I be ok when applying for a new extension next Jan or have I made life difficult for myself?

May I ask if your married to a Thai.

400K is the requirement for a marriage extension which doesn't require the mandatory Health Insurance for O-A entry. The 400K is only required to be in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to your next extension application if based on marriage.

 

 

[beachbuggy]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

May I ask if your married to a Thai.

400K is the requirement for a marriage extension which doesn't require the mandatory Health Insurance for O-A entry. The 400K is only required to be in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to your next extension application if based on marriage.

Tanoshi, no NOT married, so I will need the 800k 2 months before and 3 months after but should I have 400k in my account now until my extension application or keep it for the 7 months after. I am in CNX

Edited May 19, 2020 by ragabob
Typo

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, ragabob said:

Tanoshi, no NOT married, so I will need the 800k 2 months before and 3 months after but should I have 400k in my account now until my extension application or keep it for the 7 months after. I am in CNX

If you have withdrawn the 400K that should remain in your account for 7 months, then yes I'm afraid you made life difficult for yourself, although it could be a blessing in disguise. 

 

By Jan 2021 borders will almost certainly be open so you can obtain a new Non O single entry Visa from a local Thai Embassy/Consulate. On entry you'll be granted 90 days of stay. Within the last 30 days you can apply for a new extension with the 800K only required to be in a Thai bank for 2 months, but and most importantly get rid of that compulsory required Health Insurance.

If you choose to return to the UK you can obtain the same Non O single entry Visa to return.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Tanoshi

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, ragabob said:

Peter Denis, I am on OA with health insurance, which is valid until Jan 2021. At the moment I do not have 400k in my account as I withdrew all my monies in April with a view to going back to UK. Decided to stay here so if I transfer monies back now will I be ok when applying for a new extension next Jan or have I made life difficult for myself?

Hi ragabob,

Having slipped under the mandatory 400K balance, you will not be able to meet the requirements anymore when applying for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement.

So that will force you to leave Thailand once the borders are open again and start all over again.

As Tanoshi wrote that's actually a 'blessing in disguise' as leaving the country is a required step that will allow you to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa which does not require the #$%^ mandatory thai IO-approved health-insurance requirement.

I have PM-ed you a comprehensive guideline document containing all details/options on how to switch to such a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

> To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged-in to the Forum.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, ragabob said:

Peter Denis, I am on OA with health insurance, which is valid until Jan 2021. At the moment I do not have 400k in my account as I withdrew all my monies in April with a view to going back to UK. Decided to stay here so if I transfer monies back now will I be ok when applying for a new extension next Jan or have I made life difficult for myself?

See my earlier response.

However, I also want to draw your attention to another issue you unwittingly created by taking out the 400K from your personal thai bank-account.

Your current permission to stay is based on being in compliance with the requirements, and by taking out the 400K from your bank-account, you are not in compliance anymore.

The consequence being that

a) you will not be able to extend your 1-year permission to stay (as addressed in my previous response); but also

b) that your current permission to stay is not valid anymore as your do not meet the conditions anymore on which it is based.

So from the moment you violated the permission to stay conditions, you are in fact 'on overstay'.

But lucky for you the only way Immigration will be able to know this is when you apply for a 1-year extension of stay of your current permission to stay and you provide them with the bank-documents that show you were not in compliance.

So IN NO CASE should you apply for such a 1-year extension of stay, not only will it be denied (as you don't meet the 12-month minimum balance financial requirements), but it even can bring you in trouble as IO will then see that you did stay in Thailand on a non-valid permission to stay.

But no worry, once the borders are open again and you leave Thailand before your current permission to stay (Jan 2021) expires, you can apply for a Non Imm O Visa either in your home-country, a neighboring country or when returning Visa Exempt at your local IO.  The different options are explained in extenso in the guideline document I PM-ed you.

Note: Maybe I am a bit paranoid but when applying for the new Non Imm O Visa, I would do this on a new personal bank-account, as your present bank-book will show in combination with your passport details that you were not in compliance during the present period.  An attentive and bad-a$$ immigration officer might therefore take advantage of that 'violation', but with a new personal bank-account and bank-book there is no way Immigration will be in the know on this.

 

[been2cb4]

I contacted Transferwise about the coding problem so they told me: 

Based on your request I have made the necessary changes on your account so from now on we will always send your transfers out through Bangkok Bank.

 

[beachbuggy]

Peter Denis, many thanks for letting me know I am now on overstay in paradise the perfect place for retirement. Will head South from CM next week to open an account, where I previously held an account and lodge 800k monies there. Hopefully get a lease on a new place then boarder cross asap and go for the VE 30 day - apply for 90 day non O then apply for extension for 1 year.

coincidentally, I went to CM immig today and the Assistant Inspector person simply said, oh as it is not due until Jan, you have to wait until later to see if Immig make any changes to requirements. Waste of a visit methinks. They also said I should do my 90 day using the drive through. 90 day is due June 01. I tried 90 day online as I usually do but Not Approved.

thanks for scaring me more than I am but good to know. Cheers

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, ragabob said:

Peter Denis, many thanks for letting me know I am now on overstay in paradise the perfect place for retirement. Will head South from CM next week to open an account, where I previously held an account and lodge 800k monies there. Hopefully get a lease on a new place then boarder cross asap and go for the VE 30 day - apply for 90 day non O then apply for extension for 1 year.

coincidentally, I went to CM immig today and the Assistant Inspector person simply said, oh as it is not due until Jan, you have to wait until later to see if Immig make any changes to requirements. Waste of a visit methinks. They also said I should do my 90 day using the drive through. 90 day is due June 01. I tried 90 day online as I usually do but Not Approved.

thanks for scaring me more than I am but good to know. Cheers

Hi ragabob,

Obviously it was not my intention to scare you, but you being unaware of the potential consequences of not meeting the financial requirements anymore of your 1-year permission to stay, might bring you in some real trouble. 

But doing as you wrote in your first paragraph will avoid any problems.

> I am somewhat puzzled about your writing that you were at CM Immigration yesterday, so why did you not not do your 90-day report in person while over there?

[beachbuggy]

Hi Peter, I did the drive through for 90 day today as yesterday I did not have the TM form completed. Easy task as no one was queuing. I have opened a new account with SCB in CM and transferred the 800k from abroad. I just read on FB from a Krabi resident that an IO has just said anyone coming in after the end of July will need the health certificate, $100k and poss quarantine, so I hope I can nip across the border by land and back but will need to wait to see what Immigration decide.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, ragabob said:

I just read on FB from a Krabi resident that an IO has just said anyone coming in after the end of July will need the health certificate, $100k and poss quarantine, so I hope I can nip across the border by land and back but will need to wait to see what Immigration decide.

That is pure speculation.

Nobody knows if there will be attached conditions for re-entry when the borders re-open.

[beachbuggy]

The info came from The Thaiexaminer.com see attachment. Unfortunately I could not find a link

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, ragabob said:

Hi Peter, I did the drive through for 90 day today as yesterday I did not have the TM form completed. Easy task as no one was queuing. I have opened a new account with SCB in CM and transferred the 800k from abroad. I just read on FB from a Krabi resident that an IO has just said anyone coming in after the end of July will need the health certificate, $100k and poss quarantine, so I hope I can nip across the border by land and back but will need to wait to see what Immigration decide.

Hi ragabob,

You probably also will have to open a new SCB-account once you relocate to Krabi, and transfer the funds to that new account.  Otherwise it will be difficult for you to get the required bank-documents from your CM-branch when doing your 1-year extensions in Krabi.  So before you relocate it might be useful to already get the SCB documents from your CM-account.

Also there might be costs involved when doing transactions with your CM-account that would be free-of-charge with a Krabi-account.

 

[Tanoshi]

@ragabob

I have a slightly different opinion to Peter with regards to b).

On 5/20/2020 at 8:22 AM, Peter Denis said:

However, I also want to draw your attention to another issue you unwittingly created by taking out the 400K from your personal thai bank-account.

Your current permission to stay is based on being in compliance with the requirements, and by taking out the 400K from your bank-account, you are not in compliance anymore.

The consequence being that

a) you will not be able to extend your 1-year permission to stay (as addressed in my previous response); but also

b) that your current permission to stay is not valid anymore as your do not meet the conditions anymore on which it is based.

So from the moment you violated the permission to stay conditions, you are in fact 'on overstay'.

I'd dispute your in an overstay position.

Financial evidence is always given from the previous 12 month period, to meet the financial qualification for the following years extension.

 

This year lots of foreigners being refused annual extension because they don't meet the financial requirements, particularly monthly bank transfers not complying with proof of being from overseas.

There are no reports that any of these have been accused of overstaying for violation of the financial requirements during their period of granted stay.

The only repercussion is having their current application for the following yearly extension refused on the basis of not meeting the financial requirement, which would be the same in your situation.

 

On 5/20/2020 at 8:22 AM, Peter Denis said:

But no worry, once the borders are open again and you leave Thailand before your current permission to stay (Jan 2021) expires, you can apply for a Non Imm O Visa either in your home-country, a neighboring country or when returning Visa Exempt at your local IO.

Assuming you follow Peter's advice to obtain a Non O and get rid of your Non O-A, then it's completely irrelevant to Immigration that you previously withdrew down below the minimum 400K requirement, because you'll be submitting a completely new application based on a Non O Visa, which will be treated as a 'first' application' and therefore provided the 800K has been seasoned for 2 months, you comply with the financial requirements.