UK announces new post-Brexit global tariff regime

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

On your first point I said let's see how the eu countries react to the proposal,what don,t you understand about that? Johnson won the election with a large majority of over 80 seats,what is it about democracy you don,t understand?

British 'democracy' - the 57% of voters who rejected the nasty party are being dictated to by the minority. 

[kingdong]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

British 'democracy' - the 57% of voters who rejected the nasty party are being dictated to by the minority.

We had a referendum about brexit and the majority voted to leave,try and get over it,when the eu tears itself apart you,'ll know it makes sense,

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

On your first point I said let's see how the eu countries react to the proposal,what don,t you understand about that?

In your first post you presented it as a fait accompli. You only said "let's see how the eu countries react to the proposal" after I pointed out that it was no such thing.

 

You also originally put proposal in inverted commas.

 

14 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Johnson won the election with a large majority of over 80 seats,what is it about democracy you don,t understand?

 

The vagaries of our first past the post system meant that the Tories increased their seats by 14.7% to give them that majority. Despite their share of the vote only increasing by 1.2% to 43.6%.

 

Which does not alter the fact that 53% voted for parties which promised a referendum.

 

As a supporter of democracy who is calling for referendums in other countries, it seems very strange that you do not support the wish for one here as expressed by the majority of voters in the General election.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

We had a referendum about brexit and the majority voted to leave,try and get over it,

 

As has been repeatedly shown over the last four years, many (most?) of those who voted to leave in 2016 have come to the realisation that they were conned.

 

As proven when 53% voted for parties promising a referendum last December.

 

What is more relevant to today; an opinion expressed four years ago, or one expressed 6 months ago?

 

The point is, of course, moot. The Tories have a large majority, and there is no way Cummings will allow another referendum; he knows what the result will be.

 

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

when the eu tears itself apart you,'ll know it makes sense,

Johnson and his boss obviously don't share your view; if they do, why are they so desperate to make a deal with them?

 

I wonder what your reaction will be when Cummings finally unveils his deal and, apart from selling out Northern Ireland, it is identical in all important aspects to May's. Remember, the one so many Brexiteers labelled BRINO!

[bannork]

17 minutes ago, kingdong said:

We had a referendum about brexit and the majority voted to leave,try and get over it,when the eu tears itself apart you,'ll know it makes sense,

The majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. Only 37% did.

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

In your first post you presented it as a fait accompli. You only said "let's see how the eu countries react to the proposal" after I pointed out that it was no such thing.

 

You also originally put proposal in inverted commas.

 

 

The vagaries of our first past the post system meant that the Tories increased their seats by 14.7% to give them that majority. Despite their share of the vote only increasing by 1.2% to 43.6%.

 

Which does not alter the fact that 53% voted for parties which promised a referendum.

 

As a supporter of democracy who is calling for referendums in other countries, it seems very strange that you do not support the wish for one here as expressed by the majority of voters in the General election.

So which opposition party got 53% of the vote?oh sorry you said parties,don,t you understand how the voting systems in the UK work?if you don,t agree and live in Britain why not leave? I wonder if we,d have had all this carry on if the electorate voted to stay in the eu?would you have been up in arms about the percentage who didn,t vote? I left this country once but had to return my experience told me where justice and freedom are concerned there's a lot worse places than britain.as it's obvious we,'re not going to agree can we draw a line under it,at least till I get a new tab this spell checker on it has a mind of its own and is getting on my tits.

[473geo]

Staggering, I wonder how the Tories ended up with such a huge majority, just lucky I guess, as they pillaged the northern heartlands of the inept Labour party

[vinny41]

Voting Intention Tracker (GB) From 2019 General Election - Present

Conservatives up 4% since election

Labour up 1% since election

Lib Dem down 6% since election

SNP up 1% since election

Greens up 2% since election

Brexit party no change since election

Other parties down 2% since election

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/tgecsva5ie/YG trackers - Voting Intention since GE 2019_W.pdf

[kingdong]

12 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Staggering, I wonder how the Tories ended up with such a huge majority, just lucky I guess, as they pillaged the northern heartlands of the inept Labour party

Shows how betrayed the northern heartlands must have felt.

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

So which opposition party got 53% of the vote?oh sorry you said parties,don,t you understand how the voting systems in the UK work?

Yes, I do understand how our first past the post system works; and explained it in the post you quoted! Didn't you understand that explanation?

 

7 minutes ago, kingdong said:

if you don,t agree and live in Britain why not leave?

A typical response from someone who has no argumant.

 

As a British citizen living in the UK it is my democratic right to criticise, object to and protest against the policies of the government of the day. To campaign for changes to the voting system here to give a result which is more reflective of the actual votes cast.

 

12 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I wonder if we,d have had all this carry on if the electorate voted to stay in the eu?would you have been up in arms about the percentage who didn,t vote?

Do you really believe that the likes of Farage would have accepted the referendum result had it gone the other way by such a small margin?

 

If you do, you are wrong: Nigel Farage reminded of priceless 2016 comments; "The prominent Brexiteer was quoted as saying that there could be “unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June”.

He said there would be resentment, particularly in the Conservative Party, if not, with claims the referendum will not have been a fair contest.

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.""

 

I have never been "up in arms about the percentage who didn't vote." In fact, until now have not mentioned them at all. I firmly believe that in a democracy as well as having the right to vote, we also have the right not to vote. 

 

19 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I left this country once but had to return my experience told me where justice and freedom are concerned there's a lot worse places than britain

Indeed there are.

 

The UK is a Parliamentary democracy, and in such we have the right to change our minds.

 

As Boris Johnson, has done several times: How Boris Johnson has changed his views on Europe.

 

If he can change his mind, why can't we?

 

25 minutes ago, kingdong said:

as it's obvious we,'re not going to agree can we draw a line under it,at least till I get a new tab this spell checker on it has a mind of its own and is getting on my tits.

Up to you.

 

BTW, it's not just your tits that your errant spell checker is getting on!

[bannork]

17 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Shows how betrayed the northern heartlands must have felt.

They're going to feel really betrayed when the 'levelling'of the regions never happens as The Chancellor of the Exchequer warned, 'The UK is facing a recession on an unprecedented scale'.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yes, I do understand how our first past the post system works; and explained it in the post you quoted! Didn't you understand that explanation?

 

A typical response from someone who has no argumant.

 

As a British citizen living in the UK it is my democratic right to criticise, object to and protest against the policies of the government of the day. To campaign for changes to the voting system here to give a result which is more reflective of the actual votes cast.

 

Do you really believe that the likes of Farage would have accepted the referendum result had it gone the other way by such a small margin?

 

If you do, you are wrong: Nigel Farage reminded of priceless 2016 comments; "The prominent Brexiteer was quoted as saying that there could be “unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June”.

He said there would be resentment, particularly in the Conservative Party, if not, with claims the referendum will not have been a fair contest.

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.""

 

I have never been "up in arms about the percentage who didn't vote." In fact, until now have not mentioned them at all. I firmly believe that in a democracy as well as having the right to vote, we also have the right not to vote. 

 

Indeed there are.

 

The UK is a Parliamentary democracy, and in such we have the right to change our minds.

 

As Boris Johnson, has done several times: How Boris Johnson has changed his views on Europe.

 

If he can change his mind, why can't we?

 

Up to you.

 

BTW, it's not just your tits that your errant spell checker is getting on!

on your last point the feelings mutual

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Voting Intention Tracker (GB) From 2019 General Election - Present

Conservatives up 4% since election

Labour up 1% since election

Lib Dem down 6% since election

SNP up 1% since election

Greens up 2% since election

Brexit party no change since election

Other parties down 2% since election

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/tgecsva5ie/YG trackers - Voting Intention since GE 2019_W.pdf

 

What you haven't mentioned is that poll shows the Conservative support is falling, from a high of 53% down to 48% on 19th May, whilst Labour's is rising from a low of 28% to 33% on May 19th.

 

Indeed, in every single poll conducted since mid April, Conservative support has fallen whilst Labour's has risen. See Latest general election voting intention opinion polls. 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Under the common fisheries policy the quota each member state receives is based largely on how much they fished in those areas in the 1970s, before the Common Fisheries Policy came into effect.

 

 

The history of how the scam worked is meaningless. Now we have left, we do not have to share a quota with any EU member. We will not be party to any CFP and don’t have to allow any other nation to steal the fish in our own waters. 

[7by7]

37 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Staggering, I wonder how the Tories ended up with such a huge majority, just lucky I guess, as they pillaged the northern heartlands of the inept Labour party

Lucky? Probably.

 

Pillaged the northern Labour heartlands? Not really. Analysis of the results show that rather than switching to Conservative, most Labour voters abstained.

 

Why did they abstain? Probably because they disliked the way Corbyn and Momentum had taken over the party, but couldn't bring themselves to vote LibDem.

[Loiner]

44 minutes ago, bannork said:

The majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. Only 37% did.

Yet we did Leave. 

 

Would you like to rearrange the percentages again? It won’t change the fact the we are already out.  

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The history of how the scam worked is meaningless. Now we have left, we do not have to share a quota with any EU member. We will not be party to any CFP and don’t have to allow any other nation to steal the fish in our own waters. 

Scam?

 

The EU nations who were allocated quotas in UK waters were already fishing here before the CFP, as were some UK boats; but no one in the UK, not even anyone in the UK fishing industry, objected at the time.

 

That's because at the time most UK fishing boats were busy stealing fish from Icelandic waters to care about what was happening in ours, and those that did fish here were happy to share.

 

Of course, ignoring history is a common trait amongst certain Brexiteers, so I'm not at all surprised at your comment.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

What you haven't mentioned is that poll shows the Conservative support is falling, from a high of 53% down to 48% on 19th May, whilst Labour's is rising from a low of 28% to 33% on May 19th.

 

Indeed, in every single poll conducted since mid April, Conservative support has fallen whilst Labour's has risen. See Latest general election voting intention opinion polls. 

Thanks , Yes I forgot to mention that since the election Labour actually dropped 4% before they recover that loss and yes with the Conservative running at 53% in April blows out way the 53%  that voted for parties which promised a referendum in December

as most of the Conservative gains are coming for the Lib-dems losing 6% since the election

[vinny41]

53 minutes ago, bannork said:

The majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. Only 37% did.

And only 34% voted to Remain 

[Loiner]

 

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Do you understand that the UK citizens will pay these taxes?

 

Only if they buy 100% tariffed EUSSR goods. Buy UK products or imported FTA from other countries and there’s no tariff. 

You would either pay high taxes for the ‘privilege’ of choosing EU products, or pay less for alternative sources. No problem with that, it’s worked in Thailand for years. 

[bannork]

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Yet we did Leave. 

 

Would you like to rearrange the percentages again? It won’t change the fact the we are already out.  

Just to remind you buccaneering Brexiteers as the country heads for 'a recession on an unprecedented scale,' to quote the Chancellor, you idiots have helped bring it about.

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Scam?

 

The EU nations who were allocated quotas in UK waters were already fishing here before the CFP, as were some UK boats; but no one in the UK, not even anyone in the UK fishing industry, objected at the time.

Yes, everything related to the EU has been a massive scam. 

 

The UK has been objecting for years, but saddled with the EU quotas and nobody was doing anything about it. 

We are now out and don’t need to allow the EU to perpetuate the CFP scam any longer. 

[kingdong]

8 minutes ago, bannork said:

Just to remind you buccaneering Brexiteers as the country heads for 'a recession on an unprecedented scale,' to quote the Chancellor, you idiots have helped bring it about.

so the" recession an unprecedented scale"is down to  brexit and there was me thinking  it was down to the international corona pandemic.

Edited May 22, 2020 by kingdong

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Just to remind you buccaneering Brexiteers as the country heads for 'a recession on an unprecedented scale,' to quote the Chancellor, you idiots have helped bring it about.

So Brexiteers have buccaneered the country into a covid driven recession? Why try blaming us for the adverse weather and your own irritating piles?

So long as we now get out of the transition period without surrendering, Brexit will have saved us from their incessant claims to cough up for the costly coughs of covid ridden EU. 

[sungod]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

The majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. Only 37% did.

Your argument is the weakest I have seen, its pathetic but still you persist.

 

The majority who voted wanted to leave. The remainder either wanted to stay or just couldn't care and didn't vote. The ayes have it, its called democracy.

 

 

[sungod]

49 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

What you haven't mentioned is that poll shows the Conservative support is falling, from a high of 53% down to 48% on 19th May, whilst Labour's is rising from a low of 28% to 33% on May 19th.

 

Indeed, in every single poll conducted since mid April, Conservative support has fallen whilst Labour's has risen. See Latest general election voting intention opinion polls. 

And everyone will have their chance at the next election, whats your point?

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The history of how the scam worked is meaningless. Now we have left, we do not have to share a quota with any EU member. We will not be party to any CFP and don’t have to allow any other nation to steal the fish in our own waters. 

In your dreams only...

Fishery is a long and complicated history.

Outside EU, you will still have to follow UN Conventions : UNCLOS

 

Please read here if you want understand: https://www.ejiltalk.org/brexit-and-fisheries-access-some-reflections-on-the-uks-denunciation-of-the-1964-london-fisheries-convention/

[bannork]

58 minutes ago, kingdong said:

so the" recession an unprecedented scale"is down to  brexit and there was me thinking  it was down to the international corona pandemic.

Ah, blame everything on the pandemic, not that that's been handled well with such a large number of deaths. 

Don't you think with the country on the ropes, it might not be such a good idea to strike it out alone?

Get well before leaving home  

[bannork]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Your argument is the weakest I have seen, its pathetic but still you persist.

 

The majority who voted wanted to leave. The remainder either wanted to stay or just couldn't care and didn't vote. The ayes have it, its called democracy.

 

 

If you want to call it democracy, you have to say of the total electorate ( the democratic base), only 37% voted to leave.

 

[shy coconut]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:42 PM, impulse said:

 

Or they can choose products made in a different country...

 

They already can, they choose Chinese because they are cheaper and no other

country in the world has a manufacturing industry anywhere large enough

to compete.