3 hours ago, samran said:

 

 

The government will actually collect very little in the way of tariffs. People will just end up buying the locally made product. 
 

 

Cause these workers essentially have been sucked into a domestic industry which shouldn’t exist, they’ve been moved away from potentially better roles elsewhere which don’t rely on government rules for their survival. 

This worked well until the government worked out it was literally cheaper to pay every automotive worker their salary than support an entire industry.

 

And those workers have gone into globally competitive jobs in high end manufacturing. 
 

The only people who believe in tariffs are economic illiterates, or big business who are out for government welfare. Which are you?

Mate, your boganomics theory is one snag short on the barbie. Try the real world, not your FIGJAM ramblings. 

 

People buying locally made product..... is what tariffs are all about.

a domestic industry which shouldn’t exist..... but did until undercut by Johnny Foreigner's open economy imports?

been moved away from potentially better roles elsewhere.... sounds OK in communist states, but not for most of us.

literally cheaper to pay every automotive worker their salary... Simply not true as has been shown in the decimation of UK industries

gone into globally competitive jobs in high end manufacturing... Not from steelworks to silicon chips, maybe to a call centre temporarily

 

Love how you lump economic illiterates and big business together, especially when big business hates tariffs because they restrict big business's globalist movements. Does your beloved EU have an open economy? Of course not because it is a protectionist racket with tariffs on a massive scale. Trouble was it's tariffs did not protect the UK businesses, which it killed off and scavenged from, in favour of its' preferred states.

 

Thank God a new Brexit thread. That'll keep the remainers and EU guys out of our Trump threads for awhile. ????

7 hours ago, Loiner said:

Mate, your boganomics theory is one snag short on the barbie. Try the real world, not your FIGJAM ramblings. 

 

People buying locally made product..... is what tariffs are all about.

a domestic industry which shouldn’t exist..... but did until undercut by Johnny Foreigner's open economy imports?

been moved away from potentially better roles elsewhere.... sounds OK in communist states, but not for most of us.

literally cheaper to pay every automotive worker their salary... Simply not true as has been shown in the decimation of UK industries

gone into globally competitive jobs in high end manufacturing... Not from steelworks to silicon chips, maybe to a call centre temporarily

 

Love how you lump economic illiterates and big business together, especially when big business hates tariffs because they restrict big business's globalist movements. Does your beloved EU have an open economy? Of course not because it is a protectionist racket with tariffs on a massive scale. Trouble was it's tariffs did not protect the UK businesses, which it killed off and scavenged from, in favour of its' preferred states.

 

Economic illiterate it is then.

 

Calling me a communist for arguing for free market competition. 
 

You are the one advocating for industries protected by a government mandated tariff wall - and having people pay more for things when they shouldn’t have to.

 

But yeah, maybe you prefer working in sheltered workshops? 

 

As for the conflating this with me supporting the EU tariff policy, where have I said that?

 

Oh that’s right, I didn’t. You just made it up. 

Edited May 25, 20206 yr by samran

8 hours ago, samran said:

Economic illiterate it is then.

 

Calling me a communist for arguing for free market competition. 
 

You are the one advocating for industries protected by a government mandated tariff wall - and having people pay more for things when they shouldn’t have to.

 

But yeah, maybe you prefer working in sheltered workshops? 

 

As for the conflating this with me supporting the EU tariff policy, where have I said that?

 

Oh that’s right, I didn’t. You just made it up. 

Careful, or the chips on each side of your shoulders might fall off.

So UK must have free market competition, but the EU tariffs are all OK? Or is this just your Anglophobia getting the better of your boganomics class? Guess what, neither Oztralya or Thailand have free market competition but heaps of tariffs. Psst, they certainly don't have free movement of people or goods either.

 

Tariffs are been around for donkeys and are here to stay, whether your Outback Peoples Republic likes it or not. Expect some new ones protecting UK industries and economy soon. While we are at it, we'll ditch the EU ones that stifle our economy and overcharge UK consumers. We will cherry pick what's best for UK.

27 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So UK must have free market competition, but the EU tariffs are all OK? Or is this just your Anglophobia getting the better of your boganomics class? Guess what, neither Oztralya or Thailand have free market competition but heaps of tariffs.

Geez, there must be a real comprehension problem with you. I guess I can't expect that much from a bloke who drops 'globalists' in his posts - a term used exclusively by tin foil hat wearers, anti-vaxxers and 5G protesters.

 

Where did i say EU tariffs are okay? Oh that's right, i didn't. You just keep making that up.

 

As for Australia not having either free market competition and having heaps of tariffs...again, your economic illiteracy comes out shining. We have free movement with NZ and one of the worlds most flexible immigration policies. Anywhere between 250K and 400K new immigrants per year.

 

Australia is a leader in competition policy and has one of the lowest overall tariff rates globally. Its average trade weighted tariff is 0.86% (https://wits.worldbank.org/countrysnapshot/en/AUS/textview).  (But not being good with numbers, I'll tell you that that 0.86% is low).

 

The UK can have tariffs all they want for all I care. They just come with a cost and will only end up benefiting the powerful rather than workers. But I guess that's what you want. A bit like Thailand where the gap between rich and poor is one of the most extreme in the world.  

 

History teaches us some lessons here, the Smoot Halwley tariffs in the US in the 1920's made the great depression worse. I guess that's what you want!

https://www.thebalance.com/smoot-hawley-tariff-lessons-today-4136667

2 hours ago, samran said:

Geez, there must be a real comprehension problem with you. I guess I can't expect that much from a bloke who drops 'globalists' in his posts - a term used exclusively by tin foil hat wearers, anti-vaxxers and 5G protesters.

 

 

The UK can have tariffs all they want for all I care. They just come with a cost and will only end up benefiting the powerful rather than workers. But I guess that's what you want. A bit like Thailand where the gap between rich and poor is one of the most extreme in the world.  

 

 

Blimey strewth Blue. And here's me thinking that you are spouting on this Brexit thread that the UK can't leave the EU (with its' tariffs) or impose the UK's own, but now we can for all you care. 

 

Crikey, it's your very own class war against rich blokes. Yeah, no, mate, pity about us poor ockers who lost our jobs when whole industries are lost to foreign imports You know, those where the products can be knocked out by some blokes who are wage slaves in third world countries. Still they're the workers too (like we used to be) and probably mean much more to you in your global campaign against those rich barstewards.  Up the workers and I'm alright Jack. 

 

Sorry mate, but a link to some personal finance site does sweet fa for your boganomics credibility. OMG you're not an IFA are you?

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Blimey strewth Blue. And here's me thinking that you are spouting on this Brexit thread that the UK can't leave the EU (with its' tariffs) or impose the UK's own, but now we can for all you care. 

 

Crikey, it's your very own class war against rich blokes. Yeah, no, mate, pity about us poor ockers who lost our jobs when whole industries are lost to foreign imports You know, those where the products can be knocked out by some blokes who are wage slaves in third world countries. Still they're the workers too (like we used to be) and probably mean much more to you in your global campaign against those rich barstewards.  Up the workers and I'm alright Jack. 

 

Sorry mate, but a link to some personal finance site does sweet fa for your boganomics credibility. OMG you're not an IFA are you?

Sorry, I was trying to keep it easy to read for you given your obvious challenge with anything economics.

 

I see you missed the world bank link though shooting down your economic ‘knowledge’ (555), but as a source it’s probably too ‘internationalist’ and ‘globalist’ for a man of the people like yourself. 
 

Feel free to google more serious articles if you want. They’ll largely say the same thing. 
 

Please do however continue with your Barrie McKenzie impersonation. Very clever, although you do come across as a dill in the same way Dick Van Dyke did in Mary Poppins. 
 

Still, Barry sounds like the last exposure to Australia you’ve had - not the 30 years of unparalleled economic growth and record low unemployment we’ve had. 
 

Very amusing that Bazza is your only reference, but I shouldn't be suprised given you sound like you are stuck in the 1970s. 
 

 

Edited May 25, 20206 yr by samran

2 hours ago, samran said:

Sorry, I was trying to keep it easy to read for you given your obvious challenge with anything economics.

 

I see you missed the world bank link though shooting down your economic ‘knowledge’ (555), but as a source it’s probably too ‘internationalist’ and ‘globalist’ for a man of the people like yourself. 
 

Feel free to google more serious articles if you want. They’ll largely say the same thing. 
 

Please do however continue with your Barrie McKenzie impersonation. Very clever, although you do come across as a dill in the same way Dick Van Dyke did in Mary Poppins. 
 

Still, Barry sounds like the last exposure to Australia you’ve had - not the 30 years of unparalleled economic growth and record low unemployment we’ve had. 
 

Very amusing that Bazza is your only reference, but I shouldn't be suprised given you sound like you are stuck in the 1970s. 
 

 

Yeah, Bazza was great. As were the 70s, at least until we were sold down the river into the fake Common Market. Were you even around then, or Is it all history to you, something that you picked up from students union leftist pamphlets and hippy lecturers?  Never mind though, come the revolution comrade, if you keep up the BS you could always be Australia's Second Working-Class Hero. 

 

In the meantime, no googling or foreign wannabe opinion is necessary. Boris and the UK government have proper economists, who know what's best for our nation, its citizens, industries and economy. So roll out the tariffs.

7 hours ago, samran said:

We have free movement with NZ and one of the worlds most flexible immigration policies. Anywhere between 250K and 400K new immigrants per year.

Free movement with NZ, with a population of less than 5 million. Hardly comparison to EU FOM. 

And yes, Australia adapts immigration policy to suit their needs. They currently need immigration to boost population numbers. And once they don't need more immigration, guess what they'll do - tighten immigration policy. 

And that's exactly how the UK can operate from now on. 

 

On 5/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, RuamRudy said:

1) Why would we want to? We already have very good trading deals, and so far we have spectacularly failed to show even a glimmer of hope in replacing those with anything at all, let alone anything better.

2) We always had control - except our government, even now, is not taking control. 

3) Yin and yang - the upside from access to the largest internal market in the world outweighs the cost of doing business there.

 It's immigration. That's all it is. The rest is just fancy dress wraping. 

 

Recession, austerity, government cuts everywhere always leads to xenophobia amongst a population. 

6 hours ago, Loiner said:

Boris and the UK government have proper economists, who know what's best for our nation, its citizens, industries and economy. So roll out the tariffs.

As good as the medical advice you’ve been given lately?
 

In combination which such responsive and decisive leadership that has been shown lately,  I’d say God help you!

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Free movement with NZ, with a population of less than 5 million. Hardly comparison to EU FOM. 

And yes, Australia adapts immigration policy to suit their needs. They currently need immigration to boost population numbers. And once they don't need more immigration, guess what they'll do - tighten immigration policy. 

And that's exactly how the UK can operate from now on. 

 

I was replying to a factually incorrect post - most of his are - that Australia has high tariffs and no free movement. 
 

The Australian immigration system has seen a net annual rise per year of new migrants. The same will happen in the UK given the demographic challenges of an aging population. 
 

More to your point, these blokes hate immigration full stop. Australian system or not. Give it five years and they’ll be whinging still about Johnny Foreigner. It’s in their DNA. 

7 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

 It's immigration. That's all it is. The rest is just fancy dress wraping. 

 

Recession, austerity, government cuts everywhere always leads to xenophobia amongst a population. 

Yes I can see that hatred of immigrants, sovereignty, fear (Take back control), etc, makes a heady mix for the mass of Alf Garnetts, and Garnetesses, who were conned into voting to destroy the economy of their own country. 

 

However what IMHO it is really all about is tax avoidance for the rich. The Murdochs and Rothermeres of this world, ensured that their papers put up a huge, and utterly dishonest fight to protect their interests. 

 

How can a Brexiteer ever admit he was conned, just too much loss of face, a concept well understood in these parts.

11 hours ago, samran said:

As good as the medical advice you’ve been given lately?
 

In combination which such responsive and decisive leadership that has been shown lately,  I’d say God help you!

I’d say he probably will do.

In fact he already has. He answered my prayers for Brexit anyway. 

 

11 hours ago, samran said:

I was replying to a factually incorrect post - most of his are - that Australia has high tariffs and no free movement. 
 

The Australian immigration system has seen a net annual rise per year of new migrants. The same will happen in the UK given the demographic challenges of an aging population. 
 

More to your point, these blokes hate immigration full stop. Australian system or not. Give it five years and they’ll be whinging still about Johnny Foreigner. It’s in their DNA. 

 

Incorrectly replying to not, in fact, what I said. There are heaps of Australian tariffs - go count them. The Trans-Tasman agreement with tiny NZ doesn’t constitute free movement, and it’s subject to various visa restrictions. Tell me about the offshore IDCs and reopenings. 

 

What about your Thailand too - forgotten to dodge answering those tariffs and immigration restrictions? 

 

Yes, we all continue to have the problems brought by Johnny Foreigner. They tend to increase with the numbers of them and time they been around. They just won’t go away. 

...Britain is seeking free trade agreements with countries around the world and aims to have deals in place covering 80% of British trade by 2022...

 

Aiming for unicorns.

 

So Boris's government is importing Romanian fruit pickers by the planeload ( whilst giving millions of Brits 80% of salary on furloughing for a nice holdiay / DIY at home and  giving a Rolls Royce welcome to dinghies full of asylum seekers crossing the Chanel. Corbyn couldn't have done it better. I'm in. 

12 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

 

What about your Thailand too - forgotten to dodge answering those tariffs and immigration restrictions? 

 

Oh deary - comprehension must be an issue for you.

 

Ive already stated a number of times that Thailand’s tariff system isn’t great. You drag in immigration as well. Yep, it’s not fit for purpose. 
 

But here is the difference between you and I. Just because I have citizenship here doesn’t mean I subscribe to the ‘my country right or wrong’ school of thought, unlike the brexiters around here who take any criticism on Uk policy as a personal affront. 
 

Over the years I’ve presented or talked about problems with the system and outlined potential reforms to immigration rules to Deputy PMs, National security agencies, the military, heads of immigration and the head of the BOI - to modernize the system, and yes, even put proposals to let old crusties like yourself have an easier time and less paperwork. 
 

We’ve had some small victories, but not too many. Perhaps they read Thai Visa too and decide against it! I don’t blame them sometimes.
 

As for your Australia NZ misinformation, you are clutching at straws. 

Edited May 27, 20206 yr by samran

21 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes I can see that hatred of immigrants, sovereignty, fear (Take back control), etc, makes a heady mix for the mass of Alf Garnetts, and Garnetesses, who were conned into voting to destroy the economy of their own country. 

 

However what IMHO it is really all about is tax avoidance for the rich. The Murdochs and Rothermeres of this world, ensured that their papers put up a huge, and utterly dishonest fight to protect their interests. 

 

How can a Brexiteer ever admit he was conned, just too much loss of face, a concept well understood in these parts.

Been conned ? Time will tell

Edited May 27, 20206 yr by kingdong

barnier is doing desperate deals with the out of office opposition party twerps ..he doesnt seem to know UK has already  left   and acknowedge democracy has been done and dusted

 

fishing industry alone is worth a large amount to the UK.instead of bulgarian factory ships nicking the lot and UK fishermen  get diddlysquat  cos fish stocks have been looted by the EU boats

13 hours ago, samran said:

Oh deary - comprehension must be an issue for you.

 

Ive already stated a number of times that Thailand’s tariff system isn’t great. You drag in immigration as well. Yep, it’s not fit for purpose. 
 

But here is the difference between you and I. Just because I have citizenship here doesn’t mean I subscribe to the ‘my country right or wrong’ school of thought, unlike the brexiters around here who take any criticism on Uk policy as a personal affront. 
 

Over the years I’ve presented or talked about problems with the system and outlined potential reforms to immigration rules to Deputy PMs, National security agencies, the military, heads of immigration and the head of the BOI - to modernize the system, and yes, even put proposals to let old crusties like yourself have an easier time and less paperwork. 
 

We’ve had some small victories, but not too many. Perhaps they read Thai Visa too and decide against it! I don’t blame them sometimes.
 

As for your Australia NZ misinformation, you are clutching at straws. 

The unrecognised acceptance of your intellect,compassion and modesty is a travesty.

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

The unrecognised acceptance of your intellect,compassion and modesty is a travesty.

A huge travesty...

 

Fortunately I’m also incredibly good looking, which tends to make up for it. You can’t win them all.

 

Swings and roundabouts as they say. 

Edited May 27, 20206 yr by samran