10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The whole world's going to be in recession,why the obsession with England and brexit?

ฺฺฺBecause the rest of the world is not dumb enough to leave the world's largest trading bloc.

17 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Sorry to disappoint you,but it was a majority of punters who could be arsed to vote voted to leave,you,'ve been told time and time again.

But it was a minority of the electorate. It was only the will of 37% of the adult population.

You've been told this time and again.

'Kingdong', that's a name that requires some living up to, especially in Pattaya.

10 minutes ago, bannork said:

ฺฺฺBecause the rest of the world is not dumb enough to leave the world's largest trading bloc.

The rest of the world were in the eu? Get real,all Britain's problems are going to fade into insignificance compared to the eus,least we,'ll be out and not hamstrung by them,that 37 million pounds we,'re saving must be a godsend to the nhs.

Edited May 23, 20206 yr by kingdong

7 minutes ago, bannork said:

 

'Kingdong', that's a name that requires some living up to, especially in Pattaya.

Many apply,few are chosen.

8 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The rest of the world were in the eu? Get real,all Britain's problems are going to fade into insignificance compared to the eus,least we,'ll be out and not hamstrung by them,that 37 million pounds we,'re saving must be a godsend to the nhs.

As I said before, time will tell. But to be reeling from Covid, and then go for a no deal Brexit with the world's largest trading bloc, and one that is on your doorstep, does sound a little masochistic, no?

9 minutes ago, bannork said:

As I said before, time will tell. But to be reeling from Covid, and then go for a no deal Brexit with the world's largest trading bloc, and one that is on your doorstep, does sound a little masochistic, no?

 

9 minutes ago, bannork said:

As I said before, time will tell. But to be reeling from Covid, and then go for a no deal Brexit with the world's largest trading bloc, and one that is on your doorstep, does sound a little masochistic, no?

You said it all in trading bloc,the eu didn,t exist 40 odd years ago it was  the common market a trade agreement between the big economies of Europe it then morphed into a European super state with Britain being effectively ruled by Brussels and that drunkard barnier,if it has stayed a common market we,d still be in it.anyway we,'re out now thanks to Nigel farage and Cameron's scorn and contempt for the electorate.

 

Oh I do miss these EU threads... It's like old times ????

1 hour ago, bannork said:

ฺฺฺBecause the rest of the world is not dumb enough to leave the world's largest trading bloc.

But the worlds largest trading bloc is dumb enough to allow one of its biggest trade and contributor members walk away with No Deal???

 

I’m happy for that to happen, because any deal even at this stage would mean too many concessions. But for those who believe a deal is essential (EU and Remainers mostly) where is any pragmatism from a trading bloc?

 

There is none, because we are ‘negotiating’ with an ideological superstate that only believes in supremacy of its own rules, not trade. Hence the continued efforts to keep UK shackled: Soft Brexit; BRINO; Level Playing Field. Traders and merchants make deals and keep partners, while ideologists will only allow their way or the highway. So it’s beep beep from us, let’s get into the tariffs. 

OK, all you doubting thomas <deleted> - it turns out Brexit was worth it after all. Read this and weep (with sardonic laughter):

 

Mirrors and garden shears prices set to fall in Brexit tariff plan

"Baking powder, garden shears and mirrors are among the items set to get cheaper from 1 January under new tariff plans announced by the government."

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

OK, all you doubting thomas <deleted> - it turns out Brexit was worth it after all. Read this and weep (with sardonic laughter):

 

Mirrors and garden shears prices set to fall in Brexit tariff plan

"Baking powder, garden shears and mirrors are among the items set to get cheaper from 1 January under new tariff plans announced by the government."

It’s all good then. Those, and a multitude of other unnamed products, can now be cheaper in the UK. Why on earth should we have been paying over the odds for 40+ years if the EU is such a great trading bloc? They couldn’t even get us the best deals out there!!

We were supporting the EU protectionist racket, using our consumers to subsidise their own peasant economy states.

3 hours ago, bannork said:

ฺฺฺBecause the rest of the world is not dumb enough to leave the world's largest trading bloc.

But it's not just a trading bloc is it. Do you honestly think countries like the USA, Japan, or even little Singapore would choose to be in the EU with all it's rules and conditions? No they wouldn't. 

Two of Europe's strongest per capita economies Switzerland and Norway, they didn't want to be in the EU. Ever wonder why that is? 

 

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Of course, if we ban EU boats from our waters, they will ban our boats from theirs.

 

We export a large amount of fish, for example most shellfish caught by British boats in British waters is exported to the EU. What will happen to the communities who rely on these exports if there is no deal or if we apply prohibitive tariffs to EU imports and the EU retaliate by doing the same to us?

 

No problem with banning our boats from EU waters. There are precious few left of them now. When the full quota in UK waters is kept solely for UK boats they will all be more than busy enough. 

If the EU consumers reduce their consumption due to their own shellfish tariffs, there will be a surplus available for the UK markets. It’s about time fish and shellfish were reduced in price. 

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, our first past the post system meant that despite only receiving 43% of the votes, the Tories gained a majority of 80 seats. That is why the will of the 53% who voted for the promise of another referendum will be ignored.

Yes, your whingers whiners and moaners who would not accept the result of the proper referendum must be ignored. No matter how many spurious percentages you wish to spout, it’s first past the post. You all knew about it and all lost. 

Its very telling that the referendum was a simple choice, based on a total figure of the whole UK.  Cameron promised that the winning side must be 50% of valid votes, plus one vote or more. That’s all!

They chose not to count by the usual constituencies, as they probably calculated that method would return a massive Leave result. (About 406 Leave to 242 Remain) So it was all stacked in favour of Remain but you still lost. That’s why Remainers must be ignored. 

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 7:09 PM, Loiner said:

 

 

Only if they buy 100% tariffed EUSSR goods. Buy UK products or imported FTA from other countries and there’s no tariff. 

You would either pay high taxes for the ‘privilege’ of choosing EU products, or pay less for alternative sources. No problem with that, it’s worked in Thailand for years. 

Up to you

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

No matter how many times you play around with the numbers, the fact remains that under electoral rules the UK voted to leave the EU, and later voted in a Tory government that promised to implement Brexit; by a landslide. 

None of your jiggery pokery will change these facts, so you'd better learn to live with it for the sake of your own sanity ????

 Not denying any of that, apart from your last phrase. Just pointing out that since 2016 a large section of Leave voters have come to realise that they had the wool well and truly pulled over their eyes.

 

BTW, if people didn't object to the voting system and simply learned to live with it, then we would have had none of the reforms over the last 800 years and only male landowners would have the franchise.

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

No problem with banning our boats from EU waters. There are precious few left of them now. When the full quota in UK waters is kept solely for UK boats they will all be more than busy enough. 

If the EU consumers reduce their consumption due to their own shellfish tariffs, there will be a surplus available for the UK markets. It’s about time fish and shellfish were reduced in price. 

 Yet again you show your compete lack of knowledge on the subject; despite my providing links for you to improve upon that lack.

 

"In the UK, we export most of the seafood we catch in our waters. This is because foreign seafood markets greatly value UK species, such as langoustine, crab and mackerel, while domestic consumers focus their purchases on a smaller range of species, such as cod, salmon and haddock....

Mixed seafood for processing was the main export to the Irish Republic, Germany and the Netherlands. High value shellfish like langoustine, crab and scallops and exported to the French, Spanish and Italian markets." Source

54 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yet again you show your compete lack of knowledge on the subject; despite my providing links for you to improve upon that lack.

 

"In the UK, we export most of the seafood we catch in our waters. This is because foreign seafood markets greatly value UK species, such as langoustine, crab and mackerel, while domestic consumers focus their purchases on a smaller range of species, such as cod, salmon and haddock....

Mixed seafood for processing was the main export to the Irish Republic, Germany and the Netherlands. High value shellfish like langoustine, crab and scallops and exported to the French, Spanish and Italian markets." Source

And you think they will stop buying our seafood, even with tariffs? Simple fact is that if there is no deal consumers will end up paying more on some product categories.

 

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Not denying any of that, apart from your last phrase. Just pointing out that since 2016 a large section of Leave voters have come to realise that they had the wool well and truly pulled over their eyes.

The result of the last General Election suggests you are wrong. 

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Yet again you show your compete lack of knowledge on the subject; despite my providing links for you to improve upon that lack.

 

"....foreign seafood markets greatly value UK species, such as langoustine, crab and mackerel, while domestic consumers focus their purchases on a smaller range of species, such as cod, salmon and haddock....

 

Your links mean nothing to me, you’re wasting your time. 

 

Depends how greatly the foreign markets value UK species. Enough to still buy them after the EU imposes tariffs? If not, the surplus shellfish becomes cheaper on the UK market. It became far too expensive for the average UK consumer long ago and a return at sensible prices would be welcomed. Another Brexit benefit and price decrease. 

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Yes, your whingers whiners and moaners who would not accept the result of the proper referendum must be ignored. No matter how many spurious percentages you wish to spout, it’s first past the post. You all knew about it and all lost. 

Its very telling that the referendum was a simple choice, based on a total figure of the whole UK.  Cameron promised that the winning side must be 50% of valid votes, plus one vote or more. That’s all!

They chose not to count by the usual constituencies, as they probably calculated that method would return a massive Leave result. (About 406 Leave to 242 Remain) So it was all stacked in favour of Remain but you still lost. That’s why Remainers must be ignored. 

The scorn and contempt Cameron held the electorate in also influenced the vote.

6 hours ago, Loiner said:

It’s all good then. Those, and a multitude of other unnamed products, can now be cheaper in the UK. Why on earth should we have been paying over the odds for 40+ years if the EU is such a great trading bloc? They couldn’t even get us the best deals out there!!

We were supporting the EU protectionist racket, using our consumers to subsidise their own peasant economy states.

I'm not very up to speed on European politics, but haven't the UK and Germany both been essentially forced to subsidize the stupidity of other countries, for the sake of the EU as a whole? If true, sounds like a pretty raw deal and reason to bail on the EU to me.

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

I'm not very up to speed on European politics, but haven't the UK and Germany both been essentially forced to subsidize the stupidity of other countries, for the sake of the EU as a whole? If true, sounds like a pretty raw deal and reason to bail on the EU to me.

If anything, the opposite is true. The Euro has hugely subsidized the German economy. And on a per capita basis, UK citizens are far from being the biggest net  contributors to EU coffers.

2 hours ago, jordanmarcinkus said:

If anything, the opposite is true. The Euro has hugely subsidized the German economy. And on a per capita basis, UK citizens are far from being the biggest net  contributors to EU coffers.

Glad the euro has. subsidised the German economy,now thry,'ll have to pass the hat round the remaining countries.

On 5/22/2020 at 7:09 PM, Loiner said:

 

 

Only if they buy 100% tariffed EUSSR goods. Buy UK products or imported FTA from other countries and there’s no tariff. 

You would either pay high taxes for the ‘privilege’ of choosing EU products, or pay less for alternative sources. No problem with that, it’s worked in Thailand for years. 

Spoken like someone with absolutely no idea about Thailand’s system and how well it hasn’t ‘worked’, unless you are one of the elites here who’ve essentially designed the system for their own benefit. 

15 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Up to you

Yes, it’s all up to us now. We had a referendum for us to decide if we wanted it up to us, or up to the EU.

 

That’s what it was, and still is, all about. The EU and Remainers lost, but still have not worked that out. 

1 hour ago, samran said:

Spoken like someone with absolutely no idea about Thailand’s system and how well it hasn’t ‘worked’, unless you are one of the elites here who’ve essentially designed the system for their own benefit. 

Well your comment confirms the understanding of Thailand’s system. Did you think it was a secret only you knew about? The choice is there - locally produced, employment providing, economy supporting products, or expensive tariffed imports. All works OK. 

Must be tough if you’re not an elite, but feel entitled to a Benz. Can’t even afford an old Holden?

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Well your comment confirms the understanding of Thailand’s system. Did you think it was a secret only you knew about? The choice is there - locally produced, employment providing, economy supporting products, or expensive tariffed imports. All works OK. 

Must be tough if you’re not an elite, but feel entitled to a Benz. Can’t even afford an old Holden?

Fancy that - the ‘men of the people’ advocating a system which entrenches wealth in the hand of the few? 
 

Works okay for sure.

 

As for not affording a Benz. Maybe, maybe not. But I can think better ways of spending our money saved when the housing, pensions, health and schooling are taken care of for us. 

58 minutes ago, samran said:

Fancy that - the ‘men of the people’ advocating a system which entrenches wealth in the hand of the few? 
 

Works okay for sure.

 

As for not affording a Benz. Maybe, maybe not. But I can think better ways of spending our money saved when the housing, pensions, health and schooling are taken care of for us. 

What you talk ‘bout Willis?

So creating jobs for more than just a few thousands in Bovin, Bang Pa-In etc and boosting the economy, is entrenching wealth in the hands of a few?

Do you think taxing the coveted imported luxury branded products does not contribute something to the national coffers to support your social sector?

 

You must live somewhere else? Back to your class war, power to people and Freedom for Tooting. 

11 hours ago, jordanmarcinkus said:

If anything, the opposite is true. The Euro has hugely subsidized the German economy. And on a per capita basis, UK citizens are far from being the biggest net  contributors to EU coffers.

I can see that some people don't understand how the euro can be subsidizing the German economy. It's very simple, really. If Germany still had its own currency, the Deutschmark, then the boom in German exports would raise the the value of said Deutschmark. That would make German exports more costly and reduce their competitiveness. But because Germany shares a currency with other nations in the Eurozone, and some of them much weaker economically, those weaker nations tend to depress the value of the Euro. So in effect, the economically weaker nations of Europe are subsidizing German competitiveness. It also makes it that much more difficult for them to be economically competitive. If they still had their own currencies and their economies were doing poorly, their currency would be devalued, thereby boosting their competitiveness. But just as the Euro is too weak in relation to the German economy, it's too strong in relation to theirs.

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

What you talk ‘bout Willis?

So creating jobs for more than just a few thousands in Bovin, Bang Pa-In etc and boosting the economy, is entrenching wealth in the hands of a few?

Do you think taxing the coveted imported luxury branded products does not contribute something to the national coffers to support your social sector

So you’ve got a open economy and you import a widget for $1. It’s the best widget around, competitive on the global market.  
 

But because it’s made by Johnny Foreigner who ‘stole’ your job you elect a government to jack up tariffs.

 

All of a sudden there is a 100% tariff on that widget and costs $2. 
 

They start producing them locally. Jobs for the locals they cry! More tariffs for everyone. 
 

So you’ve created those jobs, but guess what? The local widget maker who’s given you those jobs - how much you think he is going to sell that widget to his local customers for? $1? 
 

If you think he will then I’ve got a bridge over Sydney harbour to sell you. He’s going to sell it to his captive market now for $2. The same, or a tad less than the imported good. 
 

Winners and losers?

So the producer does very well. He’s earning double for something he really shouldn’t be. 

 

The government will actually collect very little in the way of tariffs. People will just end up buying the locally made product. 
 

Sure they’ve got a job, but now they are paying twice as much for products cause of these tariffs. They’ve also got less of their money to spend elsewhere in the economy. Less jobs elsewhere as a result. Give with one hand and take from the other. 
 

Cause these workers essentially have been sucked into a domestic industry which shouldn’t exist, they’ve been moved away from potentially better roles elsewhere which don’t rely on government rules for their survival. So you actually hobbled domestic innovation elsewhere with your tariffs. 

 

Over time, innovation in the domestic brand decreases, cause hey, the government is protecting you from international competition. 

 
Your pathetic Holden jibe is an example of this. An Australian car built behind a domestic tariff wall.

 

It was 30-50% more expensive than a comparable car overseas. And worse quality too.
 

Australian consumers had very little choice but to pay over the odds to get one. Or a locally made Ford or Toyota. 
 

The only people who benefited were essentially the car company  shareholders whose lobbyists sold the sob story that Australia workers would be out of jobs unless the government supported them with tariffs and other protections.

 

This worked well until the government worked out it was literally cheaper to pay every automotive worker their salary than support an entire industry.

 

So now imports are fully allowed, and Holden is now gone the way of the dodo. 
 

And those workers have gone into globally competitive jobs in high end manufacturing. 
 

The only people who believe in tariffs are economic illiterates, or big business who are out for government welfare. Which are you?

Edited May 24, 20206 yr by samran