My name is Fred989.

Topic: should I sue?

1. Background: I foolishly loaned a Thai national tens of thousands of US$ in 2014.

      A. My collateral at the time was his two vehicles.

      B. He failed to repay and refuses.

      C. I no longer have the titles to those vehicles, he does.

      D. He made the payments on time for 4 months....resumed with a lower negotiated rate for 3 more months after 2 months              before ending.

 2. My evidence:

      D. I have a copy of the original contract (unsigned).

      E. I have snapshots of his acknowledging payment

      F. All payments went through a bank account, now closed but presumably records can be retrieved for a fee.

 

I prefer the opinions only of people, especially foreigners that have had direct experience with lawsuits in Th. 

I don't need nor will I respond to comments regarding anything else.

I am now fully aware of how well and easily I allowed myself to be conned.

I have attempted in the last 3 years to contact lawyers in the region where this occurred and Bangkok (~4), to no avail. Not a single reply.

I no longer live in Th with no current plans to return.

 

 

Sincerely, Fred989

 

 

Winning a lawsuit is only the first step. The second and biggest hurdle is usually collecting from the loser. My strong advice would be to look into that end of the process first: does the borrower have assets you can get at under Thai law to satisfy his debt to you. If those assets don't exist or if it's not practical to seize them, then there's probably no point in starting the lawsuit.

 

55 minutes ago, Fred989 said:

I have attempted in the last 3 years to contact lawyers in the region where this occurred and Bangkok (~4), to no avail. Not a single reply.

Fred:

The above should tell you all you need to know.

Sometimes people get shafted by others, happens everywhere in the world.

Sorry, I would just move on.

I have used Thai lawyers twice. If they are any good, they can be excruciatingly painful. They also want to get as much of your money as they can.  

 

But this is cut and dried. There is no signed contract, you have no leg to stand on. So hiring a lawyer will be throwing good money after bad. 

2 hours ago, Fred989 said:

D. I have a copy of the original contract (unsigned).

ouch.

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Fred:

The above should tell you all you need to know.

Sometimes people get shafted by others, happens everywhere in the world.

Sorry, I would just move on.

Not replying to emails is common in Thailand. If he followed up with calls etc i would agree

The above posts sums it all up and this is from someone who have sued several Thai people in the past, unsigned contact, no collateral and no witness put you in a very awkward position to recover the loan and no lawyer can help you here i'm afraid...

Maybe you can write it off as an investment loss and get some relief on your taxes...

 

Trying to get your money back using an unsigned contract... while living in the US is not a good legal position...

Bear in mind, too, that if you complicate somebody's life in Thailand with a law suit, they may retaliate by complicating your life with a suit against you. So before you file a lawsuit against anyone, think long and hard about your relationship with them and whether there are any issues there that might lead to a legal claim against you, however spurious.

3 hours ago, Fred989 said:

A. My collateral at the time was his two vehicles.

      B. He failed to repay and refuses.

      C. I no longer have the titles to those vehicles, he does.

 

How did that play out ?

He failed to pay and so you returned the collateral !!

I think you will struggle with this claim and would probably be better off (both mentally and financially) to let it go...

Move on - long distance makes it harder and undoubtedly even more expensive.

 

As said by others collecting is usually the issue, as soon as something like this starts they dispose of any assets into other family members names etc, but you dont even have anything signed.

 

Sad but repeated story, learn and move on is my comment.

you havent got a leg to stand on

I foolishly loaned a Thai national 10s of thousands of US mney in 2014. ???????????????????????? that was enough reading for me.

Just think of it as an expensive lesson learned. 

You will never get that money back, and going after it will only cost you a lot more, plus a lot of stress and disappointment. 

Next time someone asks to borrow money, true or not, just say you don't have any. 

One piece of advice I received from a long time expat here in Thailand is that the magic number is 200,000 THB 

 

Any amount less than that is not worth the time and expense of a lawsuit in Thailand 

You’re wasting even more money with legal action. I’m surprised you need to ask.

2 hours ago, taxout said:

Bear in mind, too, that if you complicate somebody's life in Thailand with a law suit, they may retaliate by complicating your life with a suit against you. So before you file a lawsuit against anyone, think long and hard about your relationship with them and whether there are any issues there that might lead to a legal claim against you, however spurious.

I would be more worried about a physical  attack on myself rather than a retaliatory law suit

I could give you a list of at least 10 lawyers that would willingly take on your case for a retainer in the region of 250,00 baht and many more substantial payments over the next year or so, possibly even winning the case for you.....however getting the money back from someone that dosnt have it...isnt worth it

2 hours ago, taxout said:

Bear in mind, too, that if you complicate somebody's life in Thailand with a law suit, they may retaliate by complicating your life with a suit against you. So before you file a lawsuit against anyone, think long and hard about your relationship with them and whether there are any issues there that might lead to a legal claim against you, however spurious.

Redundant, deleted.

Edited May 25, 20206 yr by scorecard

As a foreigner you are not allowed to do money lending, so you would end up in trouble.

I would advise you to move on,  the documents and contract that you have are worth nothing and doesn't proof anything in the eyes of the law. Take this as a lost investment (happens everyday and everywhere) and save yourself the stress and disappointment if you were to fight this case in court. 

Thanks

Warmest 

7 hours ago, Fred989 said:

I have attempted in the last 3 years to contact lawyers in the region where this occurred and Bangkok (~4), to no avail. Not a single reply.

There, you have just wrote answer yourself.

On 5/25/2020 at 8:06 AM, SteveK said:

I have used Thai lawyers twice. If they are any good, they can be excruciatingly painful. They also want to get as much of your money as they can.  

 

But this is cut and dried. There is no signed contract, you have no leg to stand on. So hiring a lawyer will be throwing good money after bad. 

 A signed contract is not necessarily needed. A verbal arrangement can be a legal contract.

 

Well covered in the Thai commercial code. And this is the law in most countries in the world. 

 

But in this case the situation looks rather hopeless and as others have rightly said/asked, does the debtor have cash or property that could be seized? 

 

 

On 5/25/2020 at 8:13 AM, AlexRich said:

You’re wasting even more money with legal action. I’m surprised you need to ask.

What's wrong with getting other TVF members opinion if they had experience in a similar matter?

No need for belittling the poster. 

I'm very sorry to hear this story Fred, but it's an all too common set of events.  Don't trust anyone here, Thai or Farang.  Try to make very few exceptions.

As regards any legal recourse, you must try to forget this put it behind you.  I have seen far too many people with what would seem "cast iron" claims with contracts etc etc, only to get nothing but a huge bill from the lawyers.

Whatever to the contrary you may feel, you have no  "evidence" any bank transactions could easily be argued as loans or gifts to you, from this ass hole.  

Move on with your life yes it's painful, trust me I know.  Good luck.

I have been to court a few times in Thailand, and even though winning 100% in each case, and the defendant being ordered to return money taken, the unfortunate fact is that the Thai courts do not enforce payment. I received nothing ???? My advice would be to just learn from the unfortunate experience and emerge a wiser man.

What if a Thai girl has a house but it is not paid for? She has not been living in the house, she has been renting it out for the last 10+ years, to make the payments on the bank loan. Could that girl be forced to sell the house to recoup some of the lenders money, from equity? Anyone have any knowledge on that.

Put it down to experience I to have lost money taking them to court will cost you a fortune maybe more than what you lent him and if he fails to appear in court the case will be adjourned and that could happen time after time you could be looking five years down the road if your lucky and then there is no guarantee you will win the case .sadly this type of incident happens all to often but most of us keep quiet rather than own up that we got mugged by being idiots and trusting people you think are honourable and I’m not just talking about Thai’s

Have you registered as a lender?

 

What rate was on the original contract?

 

Have you broken any lender laws? they are fairly strict.

 

Do they have the funds?  Even if they find in your favour the payments are generally based on ability, so if they can only afford to reasonably pay 50baht a month that may be what is agreed but then the cycle starts again.

 

Problem is their does not seem to be any criminal offence here, most of these harmful loans get backed by handing over collateral of some sort often land paper but that is also been cracked down on.

 

You may even find yourself prosecuted as an illegal loan shark, swim away, swim away.

Without a lawyer not possible. 

For every meeting or single step up to court you'll have to pay. 

Justice will not happen because you'll foreigner.

You might get a court settlement if you're lucky but have to pay for court and lawyer by yourself. 

In your case it seems not too much evidence to go to court.

Book it as experience. Also there have been repayments already.